Modding P180

2grVe · Post by **2grVe** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:26 am

Silent Greetings to everyone,

I know that most SPCR members are not into modding their cases (neither am I for that matter) but in the name of silence I would be willing to pick up a drill.

I thought Freelancer77’s change to the lower chamber to allow the HDD power cable through was an example of a neat and effective touch up.

I was wondering if anyone else has had a go, would be especially interested to know if it is even possible to make neat holes etc into the side and top panels? Maybe enlarge the top fan etc.

Cheers…

Shadowknight · Post by **Shadowknight** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:50 am

I've seen a window mod, but the modder managed to tear up some of the metal next to the window, leaving it visibly marred.

A pity, particuarly since he had enough skill to engrave a picture of 2 dragons on the other side.

nick705 · Post by **nick705** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:10 pm

2grVe wrote: I was wondering if anyone else has had a go, would be especially interested to know if it is even possible to make neat holes etc into the side and top panels? Maybe enlarge the top fan etc.

Cheers…

I think you'll find that many if not most SPCR members are quite happy to pick up a drill or a dremel and mod their cases where necessary, they just tend to have different objectives from the bling brigade. That said, I don't really see how you'd go about hacking up the P180's composite panels without compromising the case's soundproofing qualities which are the whole object of the exercise.

The top fan is already 120mm...why on earth would you want an even bigger one?

2grVe · Post by **2grVe** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:46 pm

nick705, First of all, please don’t get me wrong… I am not on the “bling brigade”. Far from it, I like my case clean and unobtrusive (I especially hate those LEDs you can light a living room with).

I was more interested in little mods to improve some issues with the P180. As I mentioned, I liked the way the problem with the cables to the HDD was solved. Many people have mentioned how difficult the cable management can be. Maybe some small alterations to the inside of the case can improve those issue?

As for the panels, I agree mods like windows aren’t exactly useful for noise (no offence to anyone with a window). I am trying to find a compromise between performace and noise (I am not willing to go give up my Athlon X2) so I was looking into making a single radiator fit flush into the top panel by enlarging it slightly. Hope that wouldnt be that much louder than the fan.

nick705 · Post by **nick705** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:25 pm

ahh... sorry, I wasn't meaning to imply you were a bling modder (not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that), it's just that you mentioned most people here aren't into modding their cases, whereas in fact we'll cheerfully "show the case who's boss" if needs be...

I don't have a P180 so I can't say too much about it, but as far as I can tell it was designed with aircooling efficiency "out of the box" as a top priority, and it doesn't seem particularly optimised for water-cooling friendliness. If you are air-cooling though, I'd be surprised if there was any current desktop system it couldn't handle without the need for breaking out the tinsnips.

IceWindius · Post by **IceWindius** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:19 pm

I have to say but in my years of case modding, the P180 is the first case that I have absolutely no desire to mod both from an asthesic and cooling standpoint. Its just..........perfect.

Freelancer77 · Post by **Freelancer77** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:13 am

Okay, looks like this will be the place, staff can move it if they feel the need. I haven't fired the beast up yet, (exhaustion, didn't want to find out the hard way I made a tiny mistake, will examine and fire the machine tonight) but it's built, and I'm more than thrilled with the results.

To everyone who plans on putting 2 or more SATA drives in the lower cage, I strongly urge you to make the SATA power cables fit along the back gap in the fan bulkhead. You'll see why below.

Numerous pleasant surprises along the way, I really couldn't be happier with the P180. Once again, if you are building up a box for the first time, this isn't the one to do it with. Patience, experience and more patience is the order of the day...

Here's what Antec provides with the case. For all the wankers who have bashed this box, you can't get more gear, better accessories, and tighter construction for ANY price. So it isn't everyone's idea of perfect. Deal.

Most of what's going inside. Memory, 2 optical and 3 more hard drives not shown, as they were in the box I'm posting from.

For anyone who didn't see this elsewhere, I filed and sanded the overhanging edge of the central fan bulkhead to thread the SATA power cables without going "over and back down"

I may decide to run with the front filters and filter doors off during the hot weeks of summer, and didn't like the contrasting steel showing through, so...

I've been very concerned about the VGA duct. I prepared a piece of polycarbonate lexan to block the intake in the back and leave it off if it doesn't fit with my parts. It turns out it won't fit above a 6600GT if there's a standard 80mm fan fitted in the duct.

The clearance is less than 10mm with no fan. At least the duct opening is pointing right into the Vid card's fan intake.

This was the start of the build, to find out how much trouble I was getting into. So far so good. The Front panel cables ran along the bottom edge of the MOBO to the Firewire and USB headers.

The Arctic Cooling Freezer64 was a cinch to mount. I did do a little polishing of the mounting surface, though it was clean and fairly smooth to begin with.

Yep, 5 hard drives. All props to Ralf Hutter on his excellent silent build, but that didn't quite prepare me for this stuff session.

Yeay, the ATX12V cable reaches without doing anything rash.

Now to the PSU tunnel. 4 Raptors in the bottom cage, and plenty of room for airflow in spite of all the cables.

If it wasn't so late (early) I may have done a little neater job here, but no airflow from the front fan housing is bothered, all those SATA cables are parked behind the floppy drive.

Not much choice on these routings, the cables just reached where they needed to go, with just enough slack not to worry about inadvertent disconnection

The bottom fan was installed, because of the four 10k rpm WD drives.

That also meant that the nifty lexan block I made for the holes around the PSU mount had to come out.

I received a box expecting a new DVD-RW, and got a cheapo Cd-ROM instead. While on the phone with the shop, I bargained/threatened them, and got a free 15mm Zalman fan shipped with the correct drive.

And voila! It fits with ~3mm to spare to the video card. The duct housing touches the HSF fan mount rails, but not with enough force to push on the HS.

There's the completed setup.

Four 120mm fans, the Zalman thin 80mm, five hard drives, a San Diego core 3700, 1GB of Corsair 3200XL (2-2-2-5), ASUS MOBO, Graphics card and optical drives, Seasonic PSU, the Antec P180 and one very tired but happy geek. Oh yeah, will change the signature another time.

Dirty-Harry · Post by **Dirty-Harry** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:45 am

FreeLancer77,

Excellent post and nice work at getting the Zalman 15mm fan. You gotta stand up to some of those vendors. I've done most of my business with Newegg and haven't had any problems.

So, is it quiet enough? How about the temps?

TIA

amplemind · Post by **amplemind** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 7:22 am

Freelancer77,

Do you honestly believe someone who has never built a computer before and wishes to do no modding should not buy this case?

My experience has been limited to replacing video cards and powersupplies, but I figured I could try building one this summer, and the P180 looks the best.

=\

nick705 · Post by **nick705** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 8:36 am

Freelancer77 wrote:For all the wankers who have bashed this box, you can't get more gear, better accessories, and tighter construction for ANY price. So it isn't everyone's idea of perfect. Deal.

That's uncalled for and rather offensive.

The P180 is not without its flaws, as has been documented elsewhere. It wouldn't take much for Antec to rectify those flaws in a MkII version, but if it weren't for "wankers" drawing attention to them, there wouldn't be much incentive for them to do so.

There seems to be a rather ugly "fanboy" cult growing around the P180 where no-one is allowed to criticise the thing...for instance in one of the other threads, it seems that mentioning the (to many) undesireable top blowhole is considered "bitching" and not to be tolerated. This really doesn't do anyone any good...not Antec, not SPCR readers and certainly not SPCR itself.

If you have a point of view then fine, but please have some respect for other people who don't share it.

Shadowknight · Post by **Shadowknight** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:27 am

nick705 wrote: The P180 is not without its flaws, as has been documented elsewhere. It wouldn't take much for Antec to rectify those flaws in a MkII version, but if it weren't for "wankers" drawing attention to them, there wouldn't be much incentive for them to do so.

There seems to be a rather ugly "fanboy" cult growing around the P180 where no-one is allowed to criticise the thing...for instance in one of the other threads, it seems that mentioning the (to many) undesireable top blowhole is considered "bitching" and not to be tolerated.

The thing is, the P180 is a mainstream case. The Sonata II was revised because the airflow on the previous model was fairly bad, the Antec holes let out noise and sucked in dust, the new PSU is supposed to be quieter, and they replaced the grommets with softer ones. The Sonata's rear panel is unremovable, so there isn't going to be vibration there, unlike with the P180, hence the vibration absorbing strips on the P180. The drive cages are different, so the P180 required different silencing methods due to its design. As it is made to hold more harddrives, and doesn't have the same orientation for the drive mouting as the Sonatas.

The P180 is supposed to appeal to silencers and overclockers alike, hence the top blowhole to provide extra airflow for the CPU. Given the placement of the PSU and the dual exhausts, it is supposed to handle really hot CPUs such as the Prescott. Given that Antec has the silent case "flagship" as the Sonata II, I doubt they'll ever redesign this case to eliminate the top hole, or offer a "plug" for that hole. Given that silencers are still a (growing) minority, they wouldn't make enough money from sales to justify the additional expense. Even if they changed their made regarding the design of the case, it took YEARS for the Sonata to get redesigned into its current state.

Taping the top blowhole shut, particualy with thick tape, eliminates the direct path for noise to escape. hardcore silencers are going to install Acoustipack/Sorbothane/whatever, which should more than take care of the problem with the top blowhole.

I'm not a "P180 fanboy", but I've decided to purchase the case. I initially had issues with the blowhole, but I've come to realize, as pointed out by others, that it's not hard for me to take care of. If its considered a big problem, there's always the Sonata II. Antec could possibly make the change, but given that the case is already in production, and that any revision would require more than just one modification to justify changing the case, it will probably be a while before they revise the case, if ever.

nick705 · Post by **nick705** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:01 am

Well, I don't want to get hung up on the (w)hole blowhole thing, but it seems to me it's a chicken and egg situation. I'm well aware of the expense of retooling, but Antec's decision would presumably be made on the basis of customer demand, and if no-one makes their feelings known (even at the risk of being accused of "bitching" or labelled a "wanker") then Antec will have no way of knowing how much if any demand is there.

If "wankers" hadn't "bitched" about the Sonata I's poor airflow, the improvements to the Mk II would never have come into being. If you remember, the Sonata I was greeted with rave reviews when it first appeared, even by Mike himself on this site. In the end though, the weight of customer opinion and evidence proved enough for Antec to think it worthwhile retooling.

It wasn't this specific issue that really concerned me though, more the attitudes displayed by some of the newer members on this forum. I just hope it's not a sign of things to come.

Freelancer77 · Post by **Freelancer77** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:08 am

nick705 wrote:
Freelancer77 wrote:For all the wankers who have bashed this box, you can't get more gear, better accessories, and tighter construction for ANY price. So it isn't everyone's idea of perfect. Deal.
That's uncalled for and rather offensive.

The P180 is not without its flaws, as has been documented elsewhere. It wouldn't take much for Antec to rectify those flaws in a MkII version, but if it weren't for "wankers" drawing attention to them, there wouldn't be much incentive for them to do so.

There seems to be a rather ugly "fanboy" cult growing around the P180 where no-one is allowed to criticise the thing...for instance in one of the other threads, it seems that mentioning the (to many) undesireable top blowhole is considered "bitching" and not to be tolerated. This really doesn't do anyone any good...not Antec, not SPCR readers and certainly not SPCR itself.

If you have a point of view then fine, but please have some respect for other people who don't share it.

You misunderstand me. I'm not at all speaking about valid gripes and complaints, if you check carefully you'll find that I have called upon AntecRep to consider changes to future models of this case, especially the VGA duct, and the top fan mount could be rethought so it isn't hard-clipped onto the case frame.

That isn't "bashing", and my comments were aimed at folks who were slamming the P180 just because it's from Antec or other valueless reasons.

There are many fine folks on this forum who have a keen sense of detail and provide constructive analysis both positive and negative, and I ALWAYS appreciate that.

On the other hand, I'd been up for 29 hours when I posted this morning, and might not have thoroughly thought out the potential impact of my words. In that case, mea culpa.

I'm in nobody's cult, I've never been a group follower. I modded cars for several years, and I've done a few computer boxes as well. And I still stand by this, you can't get a better appointed case even at twice the price. That doesn't mean everyone needs to like it. But there's a huge difference between not liking something and flaming it just because you don't like it.

wim · Post by **wim** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:18 am

Freelancer77, when you filed and sanded that corner to fit the sata power cables through, do you think there would have been enough room to fit the wires without cutting the case by depinning the molex plug, threading the 4 wires through one-by-one, and then popping the pins back in at the other side? (i.e. was your only problem the size of the plug or did you have to also open up the gap for the wires to be able to fit in there)

Devonavar · Post by **Devonavar** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:19 am

amplemind wrote:Freelancer77,

Do you honestly believe someone who has never built a computer before and wishes to do no modding should not buy this case?

My experience has been limited to replacing video cards and powersupplies, but I figured I could try building one this summer, and the P180 looks the best.

=\

This is not a beginner's case. If you've replaced a video card and a power supply, you're probably not an absolute beginner, but just be aware that installation can be a pain in this case. In my opinion, even this case needs some awareness of internal airflow and a willingness to experiment a bit to find the optimal configuration for your system to get the most out of it. This is not a case you'd want to carelessly throw a bunch of parts in and assume it will be as quiet as possible. The P180 makes a lot of things possible, but it takes some experience to draw out its potential.

Post by **MikeC** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:55 am

wim wrote:Freelancer77, when you filed and sanded that corner to fit the sata power cables through, do you think there would have been enough room to fit the wires without cutting the case by depinning the molex plug, threading the 4 wires through one-by-one, and then popping the pins back in at the other side? (i.e. was your only problem the size of the plug or did you have to also open up the gap for the wires to be able to fit in there)

An easier way: squeezing the 4 wires into the existing gap one-by-one -- you don't have to undo the plug or anything, any of the 4-pin power output leads can be routed this way. It's a squeeze, and wires with thicker insulation might get a bit scraped, but this should not harm anything. It worked fine for a system I put together. There might even be room for two cables on each side; certainly enough room for one on each side.

Freelancer77 · Post by **Freelancer77** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:03 am

amplemind wrote:Freelancer77,

Do you honestly believe someone who has never built a computer before and wishes to do no modding should not buy this case?

My experience has been limited to replacing video cards and powersupplies, but I figured I could try building one this summer, and the P180 looks the best.

=\

If you've replaced graphics cards and PSU's, you have an established idea of what all goes on inside the case. I'll say this. If you are putting together a fairly normal system (1~2 hard drives, 2 optical drives, not too big a HS or Video card), nothing about this case should be terribly troublesome. I'd suggest waiting until the "performance" review is published, and read both that and Ralf Hutter's "silent" review for the varying aspects of two kinds of build.

Next, pull all the removable parts out of the box and stare at them for awhile considering how they will go back together with system components installed, and where all the wiring is going to end up.

Take your time, and be willing to stop and post here with questions, and I'm certain you'll be fine.

2grVe · Post by **2grVe** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:29 pm

Freelancer77, thanks for your post, that’s exactly the type of post I was hoping for. I have built a pc or two but seeing peoples pcs with pictures and commentary really helps strive for SPCR standards. (and am very grateful for everyone’s helpful commentary in those few days I have been here).

Does SPCR have a gallery?... maybe just a place for people to post there finished work with pictures and commentary all in one place (think it would really help silent newbie’s).

And off-topic
Thought about the implication it would have should my next PC really be really quite: I have come to the conclusion that SPCR needs a sister site:

SKAR

(Silent Kitchen Appliances Review)

Turn my PC off and the only think I can concentrate on is the fridge

Devonavar · Post by **Devonavar** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:49 pm

2grVe wrote:Does SPCR have a gallery?... maybe just a place for people to post there finished work with pictures and commentary all in one place (think it would really help silent newbie’s).

SPCR Gallery

Freelancer77 · Post by **Freelancer77** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:33 pm

It is not my intent to disagree with MikeC, but for my case the gap under discussion did NOT allow for even a single 20 gage wire to pass through. I'm a retired avionics technician, so believe me when I say I can feed wires through most anywhere there's a hole. I'm sure there's some variation among cases and some can fit the PSU wires one at a time. Not mine. Only after the work I did could I squeeze single wires through.

Yes, you could easily unpin a Molex connector and pass the wires through. Their is a gap large enough to fit the first two knuckles of my index finger into save for that lip. It is just about 3/64" too small to fit an entire molex connector through. I didn't use Molex power plugs for the lower bay, but native SATA connectors from the Seasonic S12-500, and don't even think of depinning those.

Once again, if you think you might run the case without the lower fan, you've got a huge pass-through hole and no finish work is needed.

walkman · Post by **walkman** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:27 pm

Great post Freelancer!!

What model of the Seasonic do you have? I'm trying to decide between the 430 & the 500. I've heard the 430 is a bit quieter and has a longer MB cable, but I may go with 500 just to be safe.

p.s. Don't worry about the 'wankers' comment. I think most people would simply take it as a vote of confidence in your p180. Perhaps it makes some people feel a tad inadequate -- in that case, they might substitute 'naysayers'.

Freelancer77 · Post by **Freelancer77** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:48 am

Well, nothing but more good news.

This box barely whispers! Noone would call it silent, I suppose, but with four 120mm fans and an 80mm Zalman all running on low speed, I'm extremely impressed. The top TriCool 120 made a bit of noise one time, but one tap ended that. I'll change out the TriCools if that becomes a pattern.

And according to the BIOS, the CPU started at 28C and never got above 35C. The Freezer64 ran up to 2450RPM once or twice, according to the hardware monitor, but I couldn't hear it change speed.

nick705, I owe you an apology. I didn't notice your location at first. I know the term "wanker" carries a stronger sense to it in GB than it does in the States. Trust me, it wasn't aimed at you or anyone else who wants to make things better intelligently.

For anyone else planning to build a P180 with an ASUS A8N mobo, a Scythe Ninja will fit perfectly and still allow you to use the VGA duct. Big video cards like the 6800U, on the other hand, usually have too tall a profile. My 6600GT has a just barely comfortable gap to the fan in the duct, about 3mm.

The PSU is a Seasonic S12-500. I'm quite pleased with it, especially since I had been planning on an Enermax EG565P-VE for quite some time, and changing based on advice learned here had me a tad nervous.

I want to thank the staff and the contributing enthusiasts for the excellent knowledge passed around here, it made a huge difference in me getting this thing built properly.

lenny · Post by **lenny** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:09 am

Freelancer77 wrote:It is not my intent to disagree with MikeC, but for my case the gap under discussion did NOT allow for even a single 20 gage wire to pass through. I'm a retired avionics technician, so believe me when I say I can feed wires through most anywhere there's a hole. I'm sure there's some variation among cases and some can fit the PSU wires one at a time. Not mine. Only after the work I did could I squeeze single wires through.

Yes, you could easily unpin a Molex connector and pass the wires through. Their is a gap large enough to fit the first two knuckles of my index finger into save for that lip. It is just about 3/64" too small to fit an entire molex connector through. I didn't use Molex power plugs for the lower bay, but native SATA connectors from the Seasonic S12-500, and don't even think of depinning those.

Once again, if you think you might run the case without the lower fan, you've got a huge pass-through hole and no finish work is needed.

My experience with the bulkhead gap is 100% identical to yours - I think I mentioned that in another thread. I'm using a Seasonic S12-430 and the SATA connectors as well.

Personally I'd rather file a couple of mm off the gap, which is not noticeable to the eye, does not affect structural integrity and is easily done, than to nick the insulation of the wires.

I have the same experience with the Tricool too. For me its the rear fan. Needs a tap every now and then.

lenny · Post by **lenny** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 4:02 pm

Regarding the power LEDs, if you want to replace them:

They're held in place by a small glob of silicone sealant. Using a pair of needlenose pliers, they're easy enough to remove.

The 3mm diffused lens LED is inserted into a plastic sheath / light guide. The outer diameter of the guide is approx. 6.5 mm. The photos show the side and rear view. The hole is where the LED is inserted into. The little pointy part is what you see from the front of the case.

popupsquad · Post by **popupsquad** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:32 pm

Could you tell me what kind of file would I need to buy to perform that modification near the lower bay fan?

And will the edges in that area be very sharp afterwards?

nick705 · Post by **nick705** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:27 pm

Freelancer77 wrote: nick705, I owe you an apology. I didn't notice your location at first. I know the term "wanker" carries a stronger sense to it in GB than it does in the States. Trust me, it wasn't aimed at you or anyone else who wants to make things better intelligently.

Don't worry about it...I was in a bad mood and I kicked off unnecessarily. It wasn't the word, I just interpreted it as yet another implication that the box was somehow beyond criticism, which clearly wasn't your intention. You've obviously been putting a lot of time and effort into providing useful info, so by all means keep up the good work...

Freelancer77 · Post by **Freelancer77** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 5:56 am

nick705 wrote:
Freelancer77 wrote: nick705, I owe you an apology. I didn't notice your location at first. I know the term "wanker" carries a stronger sense to it in GB than it does in the States. Trust me, it wasn't aimed at you or anyone else who wants to make things better intelligently.
Don't worry about it...I was in a bad mood and I kicked off unnecessarily. It wasn't the word, I just interpreted it as yet another implication that the box was somehow beyond criticism, which clearly wasn't your intention. You've obviously been putting a lot of time and effort into providing useful info, so by all means keep up the good work...

All square then, mate.

Freelancer77 · Post by **Freelancer77** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 6:02 am

popupsquad wrote:Could you tell me what kind of file would I need to buy to perform that modification near the lower bay fan?

And will the edges in that area be very sharp afterwards?

Well, personally I have my hands on some files that are used to blend nicks and edge deformations on jet engine blades. But you can get a set of jeweler's files reasonably inexpensive, and if you're going to get into any amount of minor mod work they'll earn their keep.

Sharp edges? Not a chance. After the file work, some 320 grit then 600 grit hobby paper cleaned up the finish. Don't forget to vacuum the case afterwords. Aluminmum shards and dust floating around in an electronics box, while not as risky as steel (much less conductive than steel if they drop on a pair of contacts), is still a bad idea.

Devonavar · Post by **Devonavar** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 10:24 am

Freelancer77 wrote:Aluminmum shards and dust floating around in an electronics box, while not as risky as steel (much less conductive than steel if they drop on a pair of contacts), is still a bad idea.

Aluminum? The frame of the P180 is steel, so you do want to be careful.

Freelancer77 · Post by **Freelancer77** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:55 am

Devonavar wrote:
Freelancer77 wrote:Aluminmum shards and dust floating around in an electronics box, while not as risky as steel (much less conductive than steel if they drop on a pair of contacts), is still a bad idea.
Aluminum? The frame of the P180 is steel, so you do want to be careful.

Sheesh, there I go, posting while exhausted again. After I got my desk tweaked for the P180, I was working on my kid's machine, which now has my previous case, a Meridian M2105, which IS all aluminum.

YES, you want to be sure you clean up thoroughly after performing ANY metal removal inside a case. Your system will thank you.

Thanks, Devon, protect folks from me.

Modding P180

Modding P180

Re: Modding P180

Excellent Post