P180 or SLK3000B?

Zorander · Post by **Zorander** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:53 pm

Having just upgraded to an X2 setup plus Scythe Ninja for the CPU, I realise that my current case is too restricting in airflow and chassis fan choice (80mm only). I have been looking at either of the above cases and been wondering whether I should go the budget option or the more expensive option. The rest of my specs go like this:

AMD X2 3800+ (Scythe Ninja - fanless)
ASUS A8V-Deluxe (VIA K8T800Pro)
2x512MB RAM
250GB Seagate 7200.8 PATA (foam sandwiched on case bottom)
2 Optical drives
ATI Radeon 9800Pro 128MB AGP (Arctic Cooling VGA Silencer rev. 3)
Soundcard, Wi-fi NIC
Antec TruePower 330

I'm planning to use a 120mm rear-fan blowing onto the Ninja. Thanks in advance!

ozdoc · Post by **ozdoc** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:22 pm

Having gone the X2, why go the budget option now?

The P180 airflow seems perfect for a passive Ninja setup. If you go the SLK 3000B you would have to remove or mod the CPU air duct, given the height of the Ninja. Also using a rear fan blowing onto the Ninja in a SLK 3000B might recirculate expired PSU air?

Zorander · Post by **Zorander** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:36 pm

ozdoc wrote:1)Having gone the X2, why go the budget option now?

The P180 airflow seems perfect for a passive Ninja setup. 2)If you go the SLK 3000B you would have to remove or mod the CPU air duct, given the height of the Ninja. 3)Also using a rear fan blowing onto the Ninja in a SLK 3000B might recirculate expired PSU air?

1) Purchasing the X2 was actually already stretching my budget - originally planning to get the Venice 3500+. Stretching my budget for the second time (for a case) must have good reasons. What I want to know by creating this thread is: what are the reasons to go the P180 route as opposed to the also-excellent-and-cheaper 3000B?

2) Isn't it as simple as removing the CPU duct and sealing the outlet? I have done this with a few generic cases before and I am sure the 3000B is wide enough to accomodate the Ninja.

3) I don't quite get you here - wouldn't a blowing-in back fan help bring cool air into the case?

Additional question: Is the Antec TruePower cable long enough to reach the appropriate connectors on the mainboard and drives when used in the P180? I don't quite remember how long the cables are and I don't really want to take apart my system to measure the cable lengths, so I'm hoping some Antec PSU users can chime in.

Cheers!

ozdoc · Post by **ozdoc** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:07 pm

2) Isn't it as simple as removing the CPU duct and sealing the outlet? I have done this with a few generic cases before and I am sure the 3000B is wide enough to accomodate the Ninja.

3) I don't quite get you here - wouldn't a blowing-in back fan help bring cool air into the case?

Yes, taking off the SLK3000B CPU duct is just a matter of unscrewing it. The point I was trying to make about the blowing-in back fan is that the PSU "blowing out" fan is only 5-8 cm above this fan, and in a confined (eg under desk) space you could be drawing in air that is already heated up. Leaving the CPU duct as is may possibly bring in cooler air. I have noted though, in my own 3000B, that the Video card runs hotter (2-3 degrees) and CPU cooler (5 degrees) when the CPU duct is left in.

Not sure of the True Power cable length issue in the P180.

Zorander · Post by **Zorander** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:37 am

Anyone who owns the Antec TruePower series and can confirm if the cables are long enough for use in the P180? I need to make a decision ASAP so would appreciate any (quick) inputs.

Krazy Kommando · Post by **Krazy Kommando** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:41 am

i dont own an antec PSU or case, but i emailed them a few weeks ago regarding the P180 and SP500w, and got this in reply:

Comment: All of our retail power supplies have long enough cables to reach the motherboard's power ports and other components.
For your existing power supply, the power cables for the motherboard should be at least 22". We used our power supplies' cable lenghts as our basis.
For the SmartPower 2.0 500W or the SP-500, the cables are long enough to reach your motherboard's power ports and other components. It comes with approximately 6 4pin Molex connectors. And yes, you can purchase additional cables if you need it.
Please let us know if you need further information or assistance. Best regards.

take note of the first sentence. hope that helps

Zorander · Post by **Zorander** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 4:00 am

That helps a lot. Thanks! Now to the final decision making.... (this always hurts)

nici · Post by **nici** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:58 am

I can say that the P180 certainly looks alot better... especially if you can get the black version. Me likes black

So far my experioence with the P180 are positive except for a def minor problems like the bulge in the door, but nothing that wouöld really affect funtionality in any way

Suggestion: write down the benefits of each case on paper, then make your decision. If you like the looks of the P180 im pretty shure you wont be disappointed by its performance, But dont get the P180 just because its a P180, if you know what i mean(i certainly dont know what i mean

)

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:23 pm

er. i duno.

my SLK3700 BQE is a wonderful case. I could have bought anything I wanted. This case has great air flow, heavy construction, and a SENSABLE layout that can fit just about anything. Distances are short in it vs severely long cable distances of a p180.

I can say that once you try a slk3000, you really wont like what else is out there. It took me a long time to be a believer in the case. And, it's much cheaper to work with as well of course, to buy.

vertigo · Post by **vertigo** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 12:23 am

my SLK3700 BQE is a wonderful case.

It has a restrictive bezel (ok, others do too), it has a sideways cage that restricts airflow and it is hard to isolate the drives because in the direction of vibration the only padding is the inner shaft of the grommet, which is very thin. I had to fashion grommets from NRR32 foam ear plugs, otherwise you could use sorbothane.

Freelancer77 · Post by **Freelancer77** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 12:38 am

Other than price difference, the closest thing to a performance/function advantage for the 3700 over the P180 is the 90-degree drive bay. But the airflow restriction created, plus the P180's easily removable lower drive cage more than covers that.

The cable length wasn't even close to an issue for me. The Seasonic PSU's cables reached with the tiniest bit of slack to the main power and AUX12V connectors, and that's excellent in my book. The other power cables had well more than enough reach, and everything else fits quite nicely, thanks to the P180's spacious interior. Also, if you have 8 total drives the 3700 is a bit of a squeeze. The P180 still has room for 3 more.

And the PSU tunnel isolating high heat-dissipation components ices the cake for me, rather than having the PSU and CPU compete to see which heats the other up more.

The original ATX idea of having the PSU fan help evacuate hot air from around the CPU was a good idea in the days of 200W PSU's and Pentium IIs. These days isolation and improved airflow are the marks to aim for.

The 3700BQE is a very good case overall, for the money. For someone who can afford it, it's like choosing between Snap-On or K-D for your tools. K-D tools are decent, and inexpensive, but...

ozdoc · Post by **ozdoc** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:32 am

But then again.. if you want something that looks like a fridge, why not get a Maytag or Whirlpool?

The 3000b (or 3700 SLK) for me. Suspend the entire drive cage...

Also, what is left to be modded on the P180? I think it somewhat spoils the fun.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what you choose, both cases are winners..

Zorander · Post by **Zorander** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:01 am

Is there anywhere in Australia I can get a black P180 BTW?

Also, which case would be more ideal for use with a fanless PSU? For the 3000B, I can think of a rear fan blowing out with a fan on the CPU HSF blowing towards the former (a push-and-pull config). For the P180, in trying to strictly keep to 2 120mm fans, I can think of two possibilities:
1) a 120mm fan blowing out (CPU completely fanless) with the other 120mm running in the lower chamber
2) similar config as the 3000B - PSU running completely fanless

What do you think? I'm hoping to put an order by tonight (and end the screaming noise from that 92mm fan). Cheers!

ozdoc · Post by **ozdoc** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:12 am

Zorander,
I've been casing the net for at least the last 2 months re: hardware in Australia.
I can't find any supplier offering a black P180.
I suppose getting it shipped (US $170 + shipping cost) from endpcnoice.com etc. is an (costly) option.
If you're going a 3000b, PC Maniacs (ex Hardly Normals) have an excellent price of AU $71. I payed AU $100 three weeks ago...

Zorander · Post by **Zorander** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:03 am

How much do you think PC Maniacs charge for shipment outside Victoria (i.e. to Sydney)? I can't find an exact shipping cost for the P180 on their site. I'm going to compare the overall price to auspcmarket (who absorb all shipping cost to Sydney).

Cheers!

ozdoc · Post by **ozdoc** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:21 am

I would think it would be much more than $20, making the price at auspcmarket ($231) look appealing. I would check out their availability at both sites first. Otherwise take that price into a local dealer and haggle down.

hofffam · Post by **hofffam** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:37 am

I REALLY wanted to buy a P180 but just couldn't tell my wife I spent $130 on a new case to replace what was otherwise a functioning Enermax case. So I bought a SLK3000B. I paid $45 from Amazon. I am very pleased with the case. I bought a Seasonic S12-380, two Yate Loon D12SL fans, moved everything else as is into the case (see sig). The case is well built; everything mounts easily. Unlike the SLK3700BQE the drives mount the "normal" way. The 120mm fans mounted easily. The front mount had an Antec plastic adapter but I removed it and the case has extra holes that fit standard fans. The mods so far:

- cut out fan grills front and back
- cut out bottom two "sections" of the front bezel to improve intake area.
- replaced hard drive grommets with EAR mounts

The noise level dropped noticably. It is very clear now that the WD80Gb drive is by far the noisiest part of the system.

Zorander · Post by **Zorander** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 5:18 am

Finally crumbled and purchased the P180. After a few hours of re-assembling (and tidying the PSU cables - with little obvious success), I got the thing running. I'm using the TP330 PSU without the lower chamber fan and running the Ninja completely fanless with only a rear (Glacialtech) fan blowing out. I'm pleased to find that CPU temperature stays below 40C all the time.

I do have a few questions though. I originally thought there were some grommets or something for mounting the rear fan, but apparently hard-mounting is the only way. Are there ways to soft-mount the rear fan (and hence reduce fan vibration noise)? Also, I notice that the HD cage/bracket is not as effective in muffling HD vibration/noise as my old foam sandwich method. How many of you are favouring suspension/foam to the standard cage?

Cheers!

Post by **Ralf Hutter** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 5:56 am

Zorander wrote: I do have a few questions though. I originally thought there were some grommets or something for mounting the rear fan, but apparently hard-mounting is the only way. Are there ways to soft-mount the rear fan (and hence reduce fan vibration noise)?

Pic from my P180 review:

It's known as "The Bluefront Method" and consists of 8 cable ties and 8 decoupling washers (of your choice).

From outside to inside it goes: Cable tie>washer>case wall>washer>fan>second cable tie.

(my version consists of an extra steel washer and O-ring because the holes in my grommets are larger than the head of the cable ties)

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 6:40 am

vertigo wrote:
my SLK3700 BQE is a wonderful case.
It has a restrictive bezel (ok, others do too), it has a sideways cage that restricts airflow and it is hard to isolate the drives because in the direction of vibration the only padding is the inner shaft of the grommet, which is very thin. I had to fashion grommets from NRR32 foam ear plugs, otherwise you could use sorbothane.

you must not have the case. or else you didnt look under the case ever.

the front bezel air vents are completely bypassed by a massive hole on the front bottom. just about a 1 inch by 3 1/2 inch space. the front bezel allows further air into the case.

the reverse mounted hd cage could restrict the airflow of the case, that is possible. however, if you use a fan on the front of the case, you arent making air flow. air doesnt move in a big S from the front to the back. A 120 mm front case fan adds positive pressure to the case. that's it. this pressure does not care about obstructions, it is just pressure and equalizes immediately. the reverse mounted hd cage makes swapping out and checking cables really quick and easy. I would prefer this over the other slk series, and did. I also like the fact that it has a solid door without any holes. those holes are basically useless for an spcr enthusiast, so I enjoyed not having to glue and seal that up.

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 6:46 am

Zorander wrote:Finally crumbled and purchased the P180. After a few hours of re-assembling (and tidying the PSU cables - with little obvious success), I got the thing running. I'm using the TP330 PSU without the lower chamber fan and running the Ninja completely fanless with only a rear (Glacialtech) fan blowing out. I'm pleased to find that CPU temperature stays below 40C all the time.

I do have a few questions though. I originally thought there were some grommets or something for mounting the rear fan, but apparently hard-mounting is the only way. Are there ways to soft-mount the rear fan (and hence reduce fan vibration noise)? Also, I notice that the HD cage/bracket is not as effective in muffling HD vibration/noise as my old foam sandwich method. How many of you are favouring suspension/foam to the standard cage?

Cheers!

well you bought it. ack. I mean its an ok case and all. However, your previous use of foam or suspending the hds is by far the best way to go.

For the rear mount 120mm on an Antec case, I use those rubber premade 120mm gaskets. i like them best as they are very soft and simple to use. my SLK3700BQE came with little rubber plugs that i jammed into my papst120. with the rubber (silicon it seems) plugs, and the framed out 120mm premade thing, I get no vibrations in my case with the papst on. i test this by placing my fingernails on the metal housing near it. I find that this is the best way to detect vibrations. (that's kinda odd I know, but its more sensative than hearing)

vertigo · Post by **vertigo** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:25 am

the front bezel air vents are completely bypassed by a massive hole on the front bottom.

My case sits on a carpeted floor, and if you notice, the airflow into that hole is limited by the few millimeters of space below the bezel. On carpet that gap is less, so no, it isn't great.

Zorander · Post by **Zorander** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:17 am

~El~Jefe~ wrote: well you bought it. ack. I mean its an ok case and all. However, your previous use of foam or suspending the hds is by far the best way to go.

I admit the foam method was so effective the supposedly effective drive cage of P180 does not compare to it. I am tempted to try the same foam sandwich method again, but wondering how many other P180 users have resorted to this method (i.e. abandon the drive cage in favor of HD foam/suspension).

~El~Jefe~ wrote: For the rear mount 120mm on an Antec case, I use those rubber premade 120mm gaskets. i like them best as they are very soft and simple to use. my SLK3700BQE came with little rubber plugs that i jammed into my papst120. with the rubber (silicon it seems) plugs, and the framed out 120mm premade thing, I get no vibrations in my case with the papst on. i test this by placing my fingernails on the metal housing near it. I find that this is the best way to detect vibrations. (that's kinda odd I know, but its more sensative than hearing)

The Glacialtech is supposed to be quiet, but as far as I can tell (in my P180 setup), the Antec TruePower PSU is audibly quieter than the fan! Before accusing the fan of being noisy, I would first like to isolate the fan from the case and see if it reduces the noise. Ralf Hutter's BlueFront method looks intriguing, but I'd like to know more how to get the cable ties together (and how easy is it to detach the fan from the case/bracket? Also, are there other 'cheap-skate' methods for further decoupling the fans off the case?

Cheers!

p.s. I'm truly amazed by the cooling potential of the case. With the scythe ninja running fanless (only a rear case fan exhausting air nearby) and after playing C&C: Generals for an hour, CPU temperature stays below 40C. At idle it hovers around 33-35C (CnQ disabled). Is it normal for an X2?

Freelancer77 · Post by **Freelancer77** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 3:05 am

With two pairs of WD Raptors in the lower drive cage (two 74's and two 36's), I'm well beyond satisfied with the grommet mounting of the drives in the bottom of the P180. There is NO drive vibration transmitted to the case. I can pick up the seek clicks, but that's it.

If you are hearing drive vibrations from the lower cage of a P180, you perhaps tightened the screws too far on the grommets. I recommend one full turn after you begin to compress the grommet, no more. The result is every bit as decoupled from the metal case frame as suspension.

Zorander · Post by **Zorander** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 4:11 am

I certainly did not overtighten the screws and yes I am aware of that fact. With the P180 drive cage and the foam sandwich method, the only HD noise I can pick up is the seek noise. However, the foam sandwich muffles the noise much more effectively than the drive cage.

This is what I was lamenting about and hence my asking if anyone chose to suspend/foam sandwich their drives in favour of the P180 drive cage.

BoB-O · Post by **BoB-O** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:00 pm

Freelancer77 wrote:With two pairs of WD Raptors in the lower drive cage (two 74's and two 36's), I'm well beyond satisfied with the grommet mounting of the drives in the bottom of the P180. There is NO drive vibration transmitted to the case. I can pick up the seek clicks, but that's it.

How are the temps?

BoB