Questions about temperatures and noises, help me.

RaptorZX3 · Post by **RaptorZX3** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:41 pm

ok this is hard to explain...

i want to change my PSU for an Enermax NoiseTaker 420W (EG425P ATX 2.0 compatible), and i have questions about temparatures.

-first, since the SPCR review, does the "rattling at low speed" is still heard by the fans?

-ok next, how can i calculate case temperature?

next thing is a question about CPU temperatures in my case and heat going in the PSU, stats are as estimated below:

-the CPU, when idle, goes from:
-Winter: 41-42 degrees
-Summer: 43-45 degrees

and during load, it goes up to:
Winter: 55-56 degrees
Summer:56-60 degrees

so as i recall, the Enermax NoiseTaker series have a fan under it, taking the heat of the CPU directly instead of taking it from the side (like the SmartPower 2.0). The question here is if under load, the CPU temperature is 55 degrees, does it mean the heat the PSU takes is around that temperature?

i don't have many components in my computer, the board have sound chip and network built-in, only 1 SATA hard-disk, 1 dvd-writer, 1 floppy, the heat-sink and fan of the CPU upgraded from stock to that Thermaltake one (see my signature). And that tri-cool fan set at Medium on the rear of my case.

is there something in the same price range (around 80-85$CAN range) for a better, quieter, reliable and easy-to-find PSU of around 400-450W?

thanks for helping me!

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:07 am

The temperature of the air entering the power supply will never be as hot as the CPU. But if your PSU has a bottom fan, and the cpu fan is blowing toward it, the temp of the air entering the PSU will be higher than some other setups. This is why some people try to have a fresh air intake for the power supply.

There are countless methods to do this....usually the most common is a direct duct from the upper 5.25" bays. I don't care for this because it creates a direct path for sound to escape at the front of the case. YMMV

RaptorZX3 · Post by **RaptorZX3** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:25 pm

so if the CPU gets around 57-60 degrees, what would be the temperature of the heat entering the Seasonic S12 380W PSU?

my CPU fan face the CPU, but the heat-sink fins direction is vertical, so there's heat going up and down the heat-sink because of the fan, and there's a tri-cool fan on the rear of the case, set on Medium speed.

six4withafro · Post by **six4withafro** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:17 pm

hey raptor, I just researched the same issue with the same case.

fwiw... I finally realized that PSUs are designed to withstand higher temps (to a certain extent, of course). I read posts here and elsewhere about setups where people use the PSU as their sole exhaust fan (not that I'm suggesting that). Running your tricool on medium should pull a decent amount of heat away from the psu (SPCR's 120mm fan roundup illustrated for me that it doesn't move much air at all on low).

I don't know what kind of fan you have on your heatsink, though -- I have an A64 Freezer Pro and am installing a Ninja Rev B tomorrow; they both blow through the fins toward the exhaust fan.

PSUs are rated for temperature, so you can check those ratings. Why does your CPU run so hot? If I were you I'd buy a different HSF, which would also address your PSU temp concerns a little.

RaptorZX3 · Post by **RaptorZX3** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:42 pm

the fan on my CPU heat-sink is the same coming with the ThermalTake CL-P0200

http://www.thermaltake.com/product/cool ... -p0200.asp

right now my computer is on the side of the desk, since i want to minimize the noise coming from that Antec SmartPower 2.0....but i might try putting the computer back on top of my desk when i'll switch to the Seasonic S12 380W.

i know it had better cooler temps on top of my desk with this better heat-sink, and when i've put in on the side of my desk, the temp got slightly higher. So putting it on top of the desk might put the CPU idle temp to 39-40 degrees instead of 43-44.

i've found out that the Zalman ZM-F3, at silent mode, turns at 900rpm, and doing around 20dbA, so maybe that might help with better airflow by putting that one on the front of my case (there are holes on the HDDs cage to put a 120mm fan there). But that still cost money, 20$+taxes here for that fan

dfrost · Post by **dfrost** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:43 pm

There are pertinent comments in this threadabout use of Seasonic S12 PSU's in proximity to the CPU cooler.

I think you'll be very pleased with an S12-380.

and during load, it goes up to:
Winter: 55-56 degrees
Summer:56-60 degrees

I have to agree with six4withafro that those CPU temperatures seem quite high for a supposedly cool-running A64 CPU, etc.

With my much hotter 3.0C Northwoods CPU (~90 watts TDP), and hot VRM circuitry right below the PSU, my load temps are never greater then 47C with the XP-120/Papst fan (ramps up to ~1300 rpm), and the fan in the early Yate-loon fan'd S12-430 never exceeds 900 rpm.

RaptorZX3 · Post by **RaptorZX3** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:12 pm

so you recommend me to put it back on top of my desk when i'll get my new PSU?

dfrost · Post by **dfrost** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:02 pm

so you recommend me to put it back on top of my desk when i'll get my new PSU?

That's where mine is (no room for the Sonata under the desk drawers).

Remember that the PSU is probably only one of your noticeable noise sources. The other big improvements in mine included:
- convert the NB HSF to passive
- convert the GPU HSF to passive
- use an XP-120 with a thermally-controlled quiet Papst fan
- switched to quiet and soft-mounted Samsung HDD's

There are other improvements, too, but those were the biggies.

RaptorZX3 · Post by **RaptorZX3** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:25 am

my North Bridge is passive, i didn't add anything on it, it come with a stock heat-sink.

i think my CPU fan is fairly quiet, my video card fan seem to be quiet too.

when i bought that CPU HSF, i didn't installed it myself, the installation in the store was free since it was on warranty (at the time, before they went bankrupt...) they told me they used Arctic Silver 5 thermal paste, they even added a Zalman Fanmate 2 for free on my computer (i'm not touching the knob on it since at maximum speed of 2000rpm it seem to be pretty quiet)

for the ACAG, i tried some things so the heat coming out behind won't come back in that passive intake, i've put a few small boxes near so the outgoing heat won't enter the intake, but cooler air will enter from the sides (like some kind of gap where the heat won't immediately get in, but will get time to cool down before getting in)

if i get another 120mm fan for the front slot in the Sonata, i'll probably get the Zalman ZM-F3, and either using the quiet 900prm "add-on" coming with it or using my Fanmate2 since i never touch it and it would be better for it to be plugged on that Zalman 120mm fan, setting it at around 900rpm.

dfrost · Post by **dfrost** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:24 am

at maximum speed of 2000rpm it seem to be pretty quiet

I suggest that no fan at 2000 rpm is quiet by SPCR standards - air flow noise alone will be higher then we'd like. There is nothing lost by briefly changing the fan speed with your Fanmate to find out what it could be noise-wise. And try slowing down the GPU fan with a pencil eraser. I think you'll be surprised how much noise it generates (unless it is already a large, slow fan).

the CPU, when idle, goes from:
-Winter: 41-42 degrees
-Summer: 43-45 degrees

and during load, it goes up to:
Winter: 55-56 degrees
Summer:56-60 degrees

But you definitely should look into the cause of your high idle and load temps. At least check the accuracy of the temp sensor with this method.

for the front slot in the Sonata, i'll probably get the Zalman ZM-F3

Zalman fans have not had a good reputation around here for quietness. A good, slow, sleeve bearing fan, like a Yate Loon DS12SL at 5V, will generally be excellent there.

RaptorZX3 · Post by **RaptorZX3** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:57 pm

i believe my CPU fan is sleeve-bearing, due to the 3-years more-or-less life. (30,000 hours)

RaptorZX3 · Post by **RaptorZX3** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:08 pm

is that the fan you're talking about?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Yate-Loon-D12SL-12- ... 0085506823

dfrost · Post by **dfrost** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:01 pm

Yup. Cheaper at Jab-Tech. The Nexus is slightly quieter as a result of running slower (it is a slower re-badged Yate Loon), but the Yate Loon-badged version gives more 'overhead', which could be a good idea given your high indicated CPU temps.

Another possibility is the Globalwin, which is compared to the YL here. BTW, there are several good user fan reviews here, as well as the continuing series of fan tests from SPCR.

Have you tried to calibrate your CPU temp yet, as I suggested several days ago?

RaptorZX3 · Post by **RaptorZX3** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:35 pm

well i fear i might screw-up my CPU by lowering the voltage to 1.4V, since my board seem to "voluntary" add 0.1V to it.

but i need to know something about the airflow.

if one rear 120mm fan have 70CFM, will i get better airflow if i put 2x120mm fans running at 40CFM? (setting the rear fan at 40CFM and adding a front fan at the same speed)

by the way, i have a Sonata 2, so i can add a 80mm fan on the ACAG (is that 92mm or 80mm for the CPU fan?)

dfrost · Post by **dfrost** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:33 am

well i fear i might screw-up my CPU by lowering the voltage to 1.4V, since my board seem to "voluntary" add 0.1V to it.

Try it and see what happens.

if one rear 120mm fan have 70CFM, will i get better airflow if i put 2x120mm fans running at 40CFM? (setting the rear fan at 40CFM and adding a front fan at the same speed)

Try it and see what happens. I think there is better cooling for my passive heatsinks on graphics card and NB heatsinks with the "intake" fan in a Sonata. That Yate Loon fan runs quietly at 5V (~840 rpm), and the Nexus exhaust runs the same or faster as the case temp increases.

by the way, i have a Sonata 2, so i can add a 80mm fan on the ACAG (is that 92mm or 80mm for the CPU fan?)

The ACAG in the Sonata II has not gotten good reviews. Have you tried your system without it? Here'sa user review from SPCR.

RaptorZX3 · Post by **RaptorZX3** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 3:10 pm

so you recommend me to buy that Yate Loon from the link i posted here? and plug that on a FanMate2 and run it at around 840rpm?

for the ACAG, i'll maybe take it off...when i'll get my new Seasonic S12 380W...(shipping delays from the dictributor, i'll call tomorrow to talk to the guy who take orders about that)

dfrost · Post by **dfrost** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:04 pm

RaptorZX3 wrote:so you recommend me to buy that Yate Loon from the link i posted here?

No, Raptor, I would recommend that you purchase Yate Loons from the link I provided. Jab-Tech has an excellent reputation around SPCR, and we'd certainly like them to get the business so they stay in business. Why buy from e-bay for greater cost and greater shipping for the same item? But if that's what you prefer, it's your money. And I'd recommend that you make/buy a 5V/12V adapter or two and just run the case fans at a fixed voltage. Use the Fanmate on your CPU fan.

I'd also suggest that you develop a plan to investigate your high CPU temps.

RaptorZX3 · Post by **RaptorZX3** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:29 pm

i will try without the ACAG when i'll have my new power supply installed, that will maybe resolve a part of the higher-that-usual temp. in my computer(?)

RaptorZX3 · Post by **RaptorZX3** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:28 pm

ok, i tried to look for a 5v adapter on Jab-tech website...but i didn't find it. where can i find one?

and which Yate Look should i take? the black one or the orange one? (cos i heard one is slightly louder than the other color for some reason)

dfrost · Post by **dfrost** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:46 pm

Here's howto make your converter for 5V, 7V or 12V at a Molex connector. Or use Zalman's ZM-MC1, which will give you two 5V and two 12V 3-pin connectors from a single Molex.

and which Yate Look should i take? the black one or the orange one?

I doubt you'd notice any difference. If it was me, I'd get the cheaper black one. It's LED fans that are often noisier because the translucent plastic tends to resonate more.

RaptorZX3 · Post by **RaptorZX3** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:19 pm

ok

Jab-tech doesn't sell that Zalman ZM-MC1 though.

and shipping is kinda high to order a single 120mm fan. it would be nice if i could order both (120mm fan + ZM-MC1) there, i would save a bit on shipping i guess...

dfrost · Post by **dfrost** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:01 pm

Raptor,

Jab-tech doesn't sell that Zalman ZM-MC1 though.

The do, however, have a 12V-to-7V converter. And this onecould be easily made into a Molex-to-5V by switching the wires as shown in the how-to link I sent you earlier. And before you ask, don't forget to also get closed-corner fan isolators.

I'll do your Googling for you this time....

Acoustic PC carries both Yate Loon (and other) fans and the Zalman ZM-MC1. Yes they do ship to Canada but they're more expensive then Jab-Tech.

Or svc.com (another good vendor) carries the nice and inexpensive Globalwin fan (comparable to the D12SL-12) and the ZM-MC1.

shipping is kinda high to order a single 120mm fan

PS. I'd get at least two or three good 120mm fans - they are NOT expensive. I suspect you'll use two on your Sonata, and eventually one on a better CPU cooler when you attack your CPU temp situation.

RaptorZX3 · Post by **RaptorZX3** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:27 pm

i have a 4-pack of those rubber anti-vibration things for fans, they came with my Sonata 2 case.

at 7v, the Yate Loon is still pretty quiet?

dfrost · Post by **dfrost** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:39 pm

Raptor,

Time for you to do some looking around for yourself. That question has been answered in the past. There are excellent recent fan reviews by SPCR and also by forum members. Try the Search function and User Reviews for the latter.

RaptorZX3 · Post by **RaptorZX3** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:40 pm

ok, i have my new power supply in, and i took out the ACAG from my Sonata 2 (and put tape on the intake behind to avoid dust coming in from there), and i have put the computer on top of my desk.

the temps:

idle: around 42.5-44 degrees
loaded: around 56-58 degrees.

i have the tri-cool fan set at medium.

should i put a Yate-Loon D12SL-12 on the front + 7v adapter (while using the soft mountings i have that was included with the Sonata 2 case) to help in increasing the airflow?

note: i noticed the Seasonic S12 430W fan guard partially touches a piece of metal in the Sonata 2 case where the PSU goes, is that ok?

RaptorZX3 · Post by **RaptorZX3** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:42 pm

well, i've put back the ACAG in, and strangely, i get slightly better temps with it inside than without it.