Dynamic Vibration Reduction Device. Insides exposed.

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:43 pm

Heh....Don't look for these things at NewEgg or any other computer parts place. But I've got some right now doing some testing. My main problem is to find some noisy vibrating computer components. I really don't have anything that needs vibration reduction....other than a 140mm YL fan. These things which I will call a DVRD for short, are made in a number of lengths, some as long as a case panel. The picture shows the one next to a 120mm fan. They might work on a hard drive that vibrated.

The things are made from a vinyl-like substance, sealed like a balloon. There is a self-stick layer on the back.....silver colored. The dynamic part of this device is inside.......and with no electrical connections at all, it counter-acts any vibrations with an opposing internal movement, which increases in intensity as any stronger external vibrations are applied. How well this will work remains to be seen. I'd like to try some of the long ones on a case panel that is vibrating (noisy). The dynamic process has been in use for a long time, but till now, I've never seen it in a form that had any possible computer use. Comments?

derekchinese · Post by **derekchinese** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:14 pm

sounds interesting.

I do have a question though: what is up with the picture resolution that you use?

Keep us posted on your results, you always bring interesting projects to SPCR and this project is no exception.

Derek

Bobfantastic · Post by **Bobfantastic** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:31 pm

Bluefront only gets 56k (which is rarely even half as fast as that) in his area, so it takes him ages to upload and view his many awesome threads.
Keep up the good work!

What's actually inside these things, by the way?

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:26 am

Yeah right now I'm connected at 28Kbps.....terrible. I have to keep the picture size low. Besides, just what in this photo requires a high resolution to see everything you need to?

I could no doubt have the DVRDs made with a "Bluefront Tech" label, with all sorts of fantastic claims attached to it......maybe call it a "SilenB" device. Don't think so. But I know how it works and what's inside. Perhaps one of you smart guys can guess. I've already given you enough clues....

Oh....here's another very interesting feature. The attachment base is concave. So if you lightly attach it, it can be pulled loose and moved to another spot. For permanent attachment, you press down hard and the concave base flattens to contact the entire adhesive base.....works nice.

Felger Carbon · Post by **Felger Carbon** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:28 am

Bluefront wrote:How well this will work remains to be seen.

The competition is permanently attached rubber (McMasters, Dynamat Extreme) on a vibration reduction per dollar or per pound weight basis. There's also soft mounting or suspension (for fans).

I love competition. Looking forward to learning more!

Bobfantastic · Post by **Bobfantastic** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:54 am

Hmm... I'm thinking either opposing magnets or possibly a pair of pressurised bladders, either inside each other or at least feeding into each other.
Am I correct in assuming it's not a simple spring/damper arrangement?

I'm intrigued!

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:08 pm

None of the above....

You could attach two of these to a hard drive, and set the assy on the vinyl part.....dampened dynamic air suspension for your hard drives. I wonder how long before Thermaltake is selling the things under some strange name in flashy colors.....and if they can figure out what makes the whole thing work?

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:50 pm

Here's another photo. The shortest one available is sitting on an 8omm fan. The longest one I have is in the back. The HD is sitting on two, but I think it would work better with the next longer size. The plugs on each end are thicker and would not provide much suspension. These things will work better if mounted horizontal. And they can be bent in a curve, or on an irregular surface. Any more ideas?

From my "informed sources" I am told these things might work better to dampen low-frequency vibration (like an un-balanced fan), rather then high-frequency vibration (like from ball bearings). Not sure. I do know the internal workings are very sensitive to any movements/vibrations. Not sure if I can do any valid testing.......

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:38 am

The things work, sort-of.......on fans anyway. I took a 120mm fan that vibrated at 12v when holding the thing. I then attached one to the top edge (while the fan was running). There was an obvious drop in the vibration. When I attached a short one directly to the motor side of the hub, I could feel very little change.

Still I need to test further......and I'm still trying a way to figure exact changes/results. And I need to test on a vibrating case panel. Maybe I can set one up......maybe attach a vibrating fan to a bare case panel. Moe testing in the works. I still cannot find the website for the maker of these devices....

Bobfantastic · Post by **Bobfantastic** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:41 am

Will you tell us what they are yet?!
Or at least how much they cost. Are they heavy? Do they rattle? Are they suitable for vegetarians? Do they set off metal detectors? Would McGyver be able to make one?
Tell us!

Emyr · Post by **Emyr** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:03 pm

Send some to Mike!

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:03 pm

When I find the website/maker of these devices, I'll post a link. Till then I'm waiting for one of you to figure out how they work. They're lighter than what you think by looking at them. The long one in the picture weighs 85g(3oz). The short one weighs 5g(.25oz). They do rattle and what's inside is magnetic. The clear vinyl one I have seen, shows the exact dynamic process. Until I find out if /how they are available, I'll let you keep guessing. Look....they can't cost that much. You're looking at samples I got for free.

Bobfantastic · Post by **Bobfantastic** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:26 am

They rattle, and are magnetic...
How about a moving magnet inside a fixed coil, attached to a solenoid that pushes back against the vibrations that move the magnet?
Seems a bit convoluted, but you never know...

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:17 am

By magnetic I mean steel or iron. The actual mechanism is not magnitized. If it were, it wouldn't work very well, as the internal movement would be limited. I held a magnet against the side of the vinyl, and could feel the pull. This dynamic process is not used in very many products......at least as far as vibration reduction is concerned. Keep thinking....

Mr Evil · Post by **Mr Evil** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:29 am

Do these things actually work? Could you compare them against similarly dimensioned lumps of solid material (rubber, plastic, metal, anything that might either absorb vibrations or increase rigidity)? I am always skeptical of mysterious devices which claim extraordinary abilities; often the mechanism is not actually important, just being there to distract you from the fact that they don't really do anything much.

Felger Carbon · Post by **Felger Carbon** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:47 am

Mr Evil wrote:Do these things actually work?

That's a fair question. Since you've had success attaching one to the edge of a fan, please attach the same weight rigid material and compare vibration reductions? I'd like to know the answer to that one myself!

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:03 am

Yeah that's a fair question.....the answer is "they have to work" when installed properly. The dynamic part works all the time when vibrations are applied, unless the thing is squashed, broken open, or frozen solid. A strong magnetic field would also stop the process.

Of course a solid lump of lead absorbs vibrations due to the weight. But for it's size, a DVRD weights 1/4 as much and maybe works better. There's no real way for me to check the difference however.

Maybe you guys are thinking too complicated.....this is a really simple process, and easy/cheap to make. There is no fluid in the things....

Bobfantastic · Post by **Bobfantastic** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:52 am

A big flat spring?

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:26 am

Heh....no. A flat spring would react to vibration by creating another vibration. Not good. (Ever heard a reverb machine?) I didn't think this would be that hard. Actually the way these things are supposed to be used....what they're sold as....just doesn't seem to reduce any vibrations to me. I think they'd work better for vibration reduction in a computer. The directions with the things has a website address, but it doesn't work. If any of you can think of a good way to compare these things to a plain lump of lead, let me know.

Mr Evil · Post by **Mr Evil** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:56 am

Bluefront wrote:...If any of you can think of a good way to compare these things to a plain lump of lead, let me know.

Do you have access to an oscilloscope and a piezoelectric transducer? If you don't have a 'scope then it might be possible to use a multimeter, but it wouldn't be very accurate. Piezoelectric transducers are often used as the tweeter in cheap speakers, or as a buzzer in all sorts of cheap electronics (like those musical Christmas cards) and are thus easy to pick up.

Stick the mysterious device on a case side panel or whatever, stick the piezoelectric transducer nearby, put a speaker close to it and play a pure sine wave through it. That will make the panel vibrate and the amplitude of the vibration can be measured as a voltage out of the piezo. Perform measurements at multiple frequencies over the audio range and graph them so you can see where the resonances are.

nightmorph · Post by **nightmorph** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:54 am

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:11 pm

Let me repeat this.....These devices are not magnetic. What is inside is either iron or steel, and attracted to a magnet. Harmless around a hard drive.

I have no scope so that's out. And I'm looking for an easy method to judge the effectiveness of the things.....there's probably some way. Think harder.....

matt_garman · Post by **matt_garman** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 1:57 pm

Is it just a bunch of metal balls in the bladder?? Like a bean bag? If so, you could make something similar with a balloon and rice!

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:22 pm

Ha....Garman wins the prize. It's about 1/2 filled with steel balls, extremely small. These things almost seem to flow with vibrations. And this is what makes the thing work. A movement it one direction causes movement of the balls in the other direction. To work, these balls have to be relatively heavy. Rice wouldn't do it.

These devices are sold as hi-tech wheel weights for fancy wheels. It's claimed that these things will give you a smoother ride because of the reduction of vibration. How this is supposed to work as the wheel is turning at high speed escapes me. The centrifical force would keep the balls from moving. In a stationary mounting, like in a computer, a vibration reduction is more plausible.

Now you know....what do you think?

Oh....If you've ever used a "dead blow" hammer, you've experienced the effect of this technique. The head of the hammer is hollow, filled with steel balls. If you strike a hard surface, the hammer will not bounce back.....a dead blow. The hammer is prevented from vibrating/bouncing by the movement of the balls. The effect is startling, if you've never used one.

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:57 pm

That's a picture of the clear demo unit. You cannot buy them like this.....only come in silver. I'll be trying some of these things in different computers. Stay tuned... Still cannot find the website however.

Spoke too soon...Here's the Website. I notice they're claiming a 40-60% reduction in vibration, on a wheel of course. There's also a video of the whole thing....

xan_user · Post by **xan_user** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:24 pm

Interesting....
I remember seeing theses inside a new ski design, like ten years back. The ski was hallow with a viscous fluid and steel balls inside. Way too heavy for actual skiing though.....

Dalbert · Post by **Dalbert** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:45 pm

Thanks, Bluefront, for the info.

The theory it good, and I'll bet the practice produces reasonable results. However, I'm skeptical of unproven claims by a company claiming to be smart about tires when their animation in the video has the tires rotating *backwards*. When they show the yellow contact patch, look at the tire tread and follow the grooves. The outside edges of the grooves touch first, then the inside edges. This means they are funnelling water *into* the center of the tire instead of away from it.

I'll wait for the spcr review (by Mike & staff or by the community).

oldabelincoln · Post by **oldabelincoln** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:05 am

Looks like it might help damp vibration from my injet printer.

My system is on an old Steelcase table, with CRT, case, and printer. When the printer runs, depending upon what it's printing, the table vibrates. All caused by the printer carriage motion, and what appears to be a resonance. Even the CRT moves back and forth, so more static weight is unlikely to help.

Using soft-mount feet on the printer helps a bit.

I followed the link to the web site, but they had no distributor for the product in California.

Did you get these on-line, and if so, where?

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:27 am

The place where I work bought a big supply of various sizes from the local distributor. I doubt there will ever be a retail outlet, because of the special equipment needed to balance wheels. Perhaps this outfit is selling them for other purposes......don't know. It's worth an EMail to the company anyway. Maybe ask for samples.

Notice the larger, double-wide model for truck wheels? I don't have any that large. There is obvious potential here......just needs to be exploited.

Dynamic Vibration Reduction Device. Insides exposed.

Dynamic Vibration Reduction Device. Insides exposed.

Re: New...Dynamic Vibration Reduction Device.

Interesting, but how much do we trust their claims?