Has anyone installed a 150mm long modular PSU, such as the Corsair HX or Antec NeoHE in their 3480? The slot opening (for IDE ribbon cables) looks like it would be mostly covered over, but would the side opening still be OK - without straining the wires? (Failing that, my back-up option is the Earthwatts 500 - which is the regular ATX length of 140mm.) If a HX does fit, would that leave enough ventilation for a cool-running HDD in the top bay, namely the new WD Green?
Also, I have an 8800GTS atm, but would a 275mm card - such as the GTX - fit? (Or could anyone just measure the inside for me please!)
My planned build list looks like:
NSK3480 + Acousti Std + AcoustiFeet + 2x Fansis 92mm filters
Corsair HX520/Antec NeoHE 500/Earthwatts 500
Scythe S-Flex SFF21E 120mm 1200rpm
Intel G35 + Penryn Q9550 (95W)
OCZ Vendetta + Scythe Kama 92mm PWM
Arctic Cooling MX-2
OCZ 8GB Gold XTC PC2-6400C5
2x Samsung 64GB 2.5" SSD + Dual 2.5" to 3.5" bay adapter
WD Caviar GP "Green" ~5400rpm 1TB + Nexus DiskTwin
Samsung SH-S203N
BFG 8800GTS 640MB
Auzentech X-Fi Prelude
Akasa Cable Management Kit + 4x Right-Angle SATA2
Calling Antec NSK3480 owners!
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Devonavar
Hello,
Hope it helps
I have installed an HX520, it's a pain but it fits, and my wires all went through the side opening without requiring any cutting.Jools wrote:Has anyone installed a 150mm long modular PSU, such as the Corsair HX or Antec NeoHE in their 3480? The slot opening (for IDE ribbon cables) looks like it would be mostly covered over, but would the side opening still be OK - without straining the wires? (Failing that, my back-up option is the Earthwatts 500 - which is the regular ATX length of 140mm.)
Can't say for sure, but I've been contemplating trying to fit an enclosure up there. Best bet in my opinion would be to put it in the top slot, over any optical drive so hot air can escape through the vents.If a HX does fit, would that leave enough ventilation for a cool-running HDD in the top bay, namely the new WD Green?
I have the very same 8800GTS you indicate in your build list, and it definitely fits. There's a bit more than 3 more cm to go until it would hit the front fan, including power connector.Also, I have an 8800GTS atm, but would a 275mm card - such as the GTX - fit? (Or could anyone just measure the inside for me please!)
Hope it helps
Excellent! That's just what I needed to know, thanks. I really like this case, and my only alternative was the SG03.
I found the latest version of the NeoHE yesterday; Antec have renamed it Neopower 650. It's the same length (150mm) as the Corsair, and it has an 8pin GFX connector - which could be important for the next generation.
I had thought of an enclosure too (I've had some in the past in an ATX rig), but they can cause the drives to get too hot. They'd add too much weight for me now though (health issues), at around 1kg each. The Smart Drive would be much too long, but one like the Xilence might be OK - just a slab of aluminium. It would only add 4mm or so to the length of the HDD.
You can get a Scythe 2.5in enclosure that's the exact proportions of a 3.5in drive, so it would [obviously] fit in the top. Not sure about the holes underneath it for the rubber mounts, though. You could always just rest it on some spare foam. There is a Smart Drive 2.5in, but I've not found anywhere that sells them. I think Hitachi and Seagate both make a 7200rpm 200GB 2.5in drive now, so you wouldn't notice a drop in performance. (My alternative choice was two WD Scorpio 320GB 5400rpm in RAID, fastened to a dual 2.5" adapter).
I thought I might try the Nexus TwinDisk soft mounting system for the GP [in the top], as it doesn't add much weight, and should let air pass under the HDD as well. I really want a sound card, and there doesn't look to be enough room for it and a HDD in the lower compartment.
I wasn't planning on putting a 92mm at the front, just two filters (if there aren't any already). The 3cm clearance means a GTX could be squeezed in - which fortunately has the power connectors at the side, not at the end.
I found the latest version of the NeoHE yesterday; Antec have renamed it Neopower 650. It's the same length (150mm) as the Corsair, and it has an 8pin GFX connector - which could be important for the next generation.
I had thought of an enclosure too (I've had some in the past in an ATX rig), but they can cause the drives to get too hot. They'd add too much weight for me now though (health issues), at around 1kg each. The Smart Drive would be much too long, but one like the Xilence might be OK - just a slab of aluminium. It would only add 4mm or so to the length of the HDD.
You can get a Scythe 2.5in enclosure that's the exact proportions of a 3.5in drive, so it would [obviously] fit in the top. Not sure about the holes underneath it for the rubber mounts, though. You could always just rest it on some spare foam. There is a Smart Drive 2.5in, but I've not found anywhere that sells them. I think Hitachi and Seagate both make a 7200rpm 200GB 2.5in drive now, so you wouldn't notice a drop in performance. (My alternative choice was two WD Scorpio 320GB 5400rpm in RAID, fastened to a dual 2.5" adapter).
I thought I might try the Nexus TwinDisk soft mounting system for the GP [in the top], as it doesn't add much weight, and should let air pass under the HDD as well. I really want a sound card, and there doesn't look to be enough room for it and a HDD in the lower compartment.
I wasn't planning on putting a 92mm at the front, just two filters (if there aren't any already). The 3cm clearance means a GTX could be squeezed in - which fortunately has the power connectors at the side, not at the end.
The Q35's don't have 1333FSB support for the new 45nm Quads, only Duos.
http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/G35/index.htm
I don't think there are any boards out, yet. I'm hoping they will be by March... when it's my birthday, and time for the new build!
This is the "old" model that I was looking at for the Kentsfield Q6600 G0:
http://www.intel.com/products/motherboa ... /index.htm
And a pic:
http://www.intel.com/products/motherboa ... 3tl_lg.jpg
It looks like not all the caps are solid-state. But I like it for three reasons; (i) the HUGE northbridge heatsink, compared to the tiny ones on Asus, Gigabyte etc. (ii) the PCI slot at the bottom will let you have a soundcard and some breathing room between it and the GFX card (iii) the placement of the SATA ports in the bottom corner that don't get in the way of the GFX card.
http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/G35/index.htm
I don't think there are any boards out, yet. I'm hoping they will be by March... when it's my birthday, and time for the new build!
This is the "old" model that I was looking at for the Kentsfield Q6600 G0:
http://www.intel.com/products/motherboa ... /index.htm
And a pic:
http://www.intel.com/products/motherboa ... 3tl_lg.jpg
It looks like not all the caps are solid-state. But I like it for three reasons; (i) the HUGE northbridge heatsink, compared to the tiny ones on Asus, Gigabyte etc. (ii) the PCI slot at the bottom will let you have a soundcard and some breathing room between it and the GFX card (iii) the placement of the SATA ports in the bottom corner that don't get in the way of the GFX card.
Ok. I thought the Q35's did have 1333mhz support. this is what I looked at.
http://compare.intel.com/pcc/showchart. ... ture=en-US
I think I will pull the trigger and get the case as well.
Going to punch out the front and back grills until I decide on what board to get.
Good luck on your build!
http://compare.intel.com/pcc/showchart. ... ture=en-US
I think I will pull the trigger and get the case as well.
Going to punch out the front and back grills until I decide on what board to get.
Good luck on your build!
just wanted to chime in Jools,
I've got a NeoHE and GTX in my NSK3400 [at the time, the 3480 was pointless added expense, considering i needed to replace the PSU anyway =)].
there's ages of room with the GTX [unfortunately i don't have a camera, or i'd have posted build pix already] - it mustn't be too much longer than the GTS if there's 3cm or clearance with one of them.
i routed my cables down the blank side of the case, dropping a hole in the PSU tunnel and one near the ATX connector on my AN-M2. makes things much easier =]. i applied tape over the top lid grills, and opened a blank 5 1/4" panel to allow me to place my HDD under my pioneer 212D burner. you'll need to either suspend your HDD or use right angle power and sata connections to get it to fit - i can't remember for certain re right angle connectors, but i ended up suspending. you definitely need a right angle sata plug for the 212D/NeoHE500 matchup.
you'll probably want to get the heat from the GTX out of the case [ie, assist it!!] as that thing dumps a lot of it into the lower area, heating up the case substantially. i've ducted the intake, output and my ninja to separate the heat pockets as much as i can.
anyway, hope that helps,
I've got a NeoHE and GTX in my NSK3400 [at the time, the 3480 was pointless added expense, considering i needed to replace the PSU anyway =)].
there's ages of room with the GTX [unfortunately i don't have a camera, or i'd have posted build pix already] - it mustn't be too much longer than the GTS if there's 3cm or clearance with one of them.
i routed my cables down the blank side of the case, dropping a hole in the PSU tunnel and one near the ATX connector on my AN-M2. makes things much easier =]. i applied tape over the top lid grills, and opened a blank 5 1/4" panel to allow me to place my HDD under my pioneer 212D burner. you'll need to either suspend your HDD or use right angle power and sata connections to get it to fit - i can't remember for certain re right angle connectors, but i ended up suspending. you definitely need a right angle sata plug for the 212D/NeoHE500 matchup.
you'll probably want to get the heat from the GTX out of the case [ie, assist it!!] as that thing dumps a lot of it into the lower area, heating up the case substantially. i've ducted the intake, output and my ninja to separate the heat pockets as much as i can.
anyway, hope that helps,
Thanks for the info, Shobai - much appreciated! The Neopower 650 [formerly NeoHE] caught my eye the other day, as it has both 6pin and 8pin PCI Express connectors. (Pity the lower wattage models don't).
I had thought the GTX would exhaust most of it's heat directly outside. It's hard to tell how well my GTS works inside the SN25P, as everything's hot - and inaccessible! Maybe a 92mm can be squeezed in the front. Or even a 120mm clipped/strapped on, which should blow over both sides. And leave a spare PCI bracket off for outflow.
I'm waiting to see what the "refresh" cards from Nvidia and AMD's HD 3870 X2 turn out like early next year. A GTX OC2 would be nice now... but not so much if they come up with a G92 version in a few weeks time! The HD's look like they run cooler at idle, but hotter under load. (We just can't win...)
I was planning to use a pair of Nexus DiskTwin brackets [on the WD 1TB GP] in the lower 5.25" bay. That should bring it up in the air and forward slightly. But I might yet go with just a WD Scorpio 320 2.5" in a Scythe Quiet Drive, which would be cooler - and let me get away with a standard ATX length VX550W, as airflow across it wouldn't be as important. (It would only be used for storing my music collection).
It sounds like it's maybe not such a good idea to put acoustic insulation everywhere? I was planning on either thin Nexus Damptek or the thicker Acousti Kit. (Including under the top PSU grill, if I get an 80mm PSU).
Sounds like maybe I should get a couple case fans to experiment with. After finding out the Scythe Kama won't work with the OCZ Vendetta (it has a closed rib), I've switched the spec. to a Sharkoon Silent Eagle 92mm. I'll get the 2000 120mm model as well as the 1000, in case the airflow isn't sufficient.
I'm looking forward to getting the totally silent Samsung SSD[s]... if they ever release them to market, that is...
[Edit]
Pics [on Newegg] show a side vent for the CPU. With the duct removed, that could help with pulling hot air out. Pity Antec didn't place it a bit lower.
I had thought the GTX would exhaust most of it's heat directly outside. It's hard to tell how well my GTS works inside the SN25P, as everything's hot - and inaccessible! Maybe a 92mm can be squeezed in the front. Or even a 120mm clipped/strapped on, which should blow over both sides. And leave a spare PCI bracket off for outflow.
I'm waiting to see what the "refresh" cards from Nvidia and AMD's HD 3870 X2 turn out like early next year. A GTX OC2 would be nice now... but not so much if they come up with a G92 version in a few weeks time! The HD's look like they run cooler at idle, but hotter under load. (We just can't win...)
I was planning to use a pair of Nexus DiskTwin brackets [on the WD 1TB GP] in the lower 5.25" bay. That should bring it up in the air and forward slightly. But I might yet go with just a WD Scorpio 320 2.5" in a Scythe Quiet Drive, which would be cooler - and let me get away with a standard ATX length VX550W, as airflow across it wouldn't be as important. (It would only be used for storing my music collection).
It sounds like it's maybe not such a good idea to put acoustic insulation everywhere? I was planning on either thin Nexus Damptek or the thicker Acousti Kit. (Including under the top PSU grill, if I get an 80mm PSU).
Sounds like maybe I should get a couple case fans to experiment with. After finding out the Scythe Kama won't work with the OCZ Vendetta (it has a closed rib), I've switched the spec. to a Sharkoon Silent Eagle 92mm. I'll get the 2000 120mm model as well as the 1000, in case the airflow isn't sufficient.
I'm looking forward to getting the totally silent Samsung SSD[s]... if they ever release them to market, that is...
[Edit]
Pics [on Newegg] show a side vent for the CPU. With the duct removed, that could help with pulling hot air out. Pity Antec didn't place it a bit lower.
Shobai is right: even my GTS dumps alot of heat in the case. I've found that cutting the grills off the back of it helps it exhaust air out of the case more easily, especially when the fan isn't spinning very fast. I also made an aluminum duct to a free PCI slot so the heat that comes out the exhaust slits doesn't get recycled inside the case.
Still, I'm considering cutting a vent down next to the videocard, a la TJ08, especially since I have a bottom-mounted HDD there.
Here's a pic of the current messy state of my rig (working on it, lazily ):
Taken fromthis thread, where there's a bit of talk about the NSK3480.
Still, I'm considering cutting a vent down next to the videocard, a la TJ08, especially since I have a bottom-mounted HDD there.
Here's a pic of the current messy state of my rig (working on it, lazily
):Taken fromthis thread, where there's a bit of talk about the NSK3480.
Thanks for the pic & thread Sorbet - most illuminating. Seems like the Earthwatts 500 would be more than enough to run an 8800GTX, especially as I won't be overclocking. After thinking about the 6/8pin thing, I'm not sure I'd want a GFX card that demands > 200W power. I'd been thinking of getting a HD3870 X2, but it would be a bit much - in power demands as well as length. To say nothing of the drivers... 
OK, so after some more research here's my revised spec. (Feel free to comment, one & all):
Antec NSK3480 + Antec Earthwatts 500
Nexus 120mm B/W + Nexus 92mm B/W (case fans)
Asus P5E-VM + Intel Q9550 (Penryn) + Nexus LXM-8200 + Arctic Cooling MX-2
8GB OCZ Gold PC2-6400C5
Samsung 64GB 2.5" SSD
1TB WD Caviar "Green Power" + Nexus DiskTwin
Samsung SH-S203N
BFG 8800GTX OC2 768MB (refresh?)
Creative X-Fi Xtreme (PCI Express)
And here's my reasoning behind my choices:
If mcoleg & alexhd can run their GTXs on an EA380, bumping up to the EA500 (specifically for it's dedicated 2x6pin PCI Express cables) will do just fine. It only leaves me with the two Molex cables and the 8pin CPU to hide in the top bay. Being a standard ATX length (140mm) will make it an easier fit than the NeoHE 650. The unsleeved cables could be an advantage, as they will be easier to bend, wrap & tie off.
The Corsair VX450W or Seasonic S12II-430W were my other two options, but they're both 120mm - and I wanted a straight-through design to pull some air over the HDD that's going in the top bay (there won't be one in the lower), and let me cover across the entire top panel with acoustic matting.
I've had Nexus fans in the past, and they've been OK. Two black & white models (a 120 and 92mm) will serve as case fans. I switched from the OCZ Vendetta HSF - which is slightly more efficient - to the Nexus LXM-8200 for two reasons; I couldn't find an "open" 92mm PWM replacement fan, and it's just too fiddly for me to fit. The Nexus is all in one-piece and just clips in.
The Asus P5E-VM (G35) board looks very good - physically as well as on paper. The 4pin CPU socket is as the top, the 24pin at the right hand side, 4 RAM banks. Now that Creative have finally released a PCI Express X-Fi, that would fit above the GFX card (instead of the PCI Auzentech Prelude).
The Penryn 9550 is the 4x2.83GHz variant, with a 95W TDP. (Less than my X2 4800!). The 0.17GHz clock bump to the QX9650 isn't worth the hike to 130W TDP (even if it doesn't actually get anywhere near it in the real world) - and especially not twice the price. I don't overclock, as I don't want to stress the components/take the risk/increase the heat - and I want this build to last for 2-3 years.
The Samsung SSD will make Vista 64 fly (man, does it chatter - even with the indexing service turned off). Watch the demo on the samsungssd website. And yes, I do realise it's a fair chunk o' change...
Because the SSD will be my primary drive, I can afford for the data drive - the WD Caviar Green Power - to be slower than the regular 7200rpm drives. In fact, it's a good thing it does run "somewhere between 5400 and 7200rpm", consumes less power than normal, and has only 4 platters instead of 5 - as it all adds up to a cool, quiet & frugal drive. Mounting it on the DiskTwin brackets will move it up so air can blow underneath it, and maybe forward a bit to help with cable management.
The Samsung optical is a short one; only 170mm long, which should give me a 43mm gap. It has a long list of attributes, one of which is you can dial down the speed to ease vibrations. My current LG is great - but waiting for the FEAR Perseus Mandate disc to spin up late at night makes it sound like East Midlands airport. My cunning alternative is the LG GSA-E50L, which is a tiny external device. Unfortunately it would soak up a USB slot, and add yet another mains adapter.
http://us.lge.com/products/model/detail ... E50L.jhtml
I'd continue to use my GTS until Nvidia do their refresh of the GTX. It'd be expecting a lot of them to reduce the thermals... but I'd hope they won't increase them. If they do, the older - and hopefully by then cheaper - BFG 8800GTX OC2 will fit the bill. (It's almost on clock-par with the Ultra - and £100 less). The 92mm front fan will hopefully keep it cool, with the lowest PCI bracket removed for hot air to escape. There won't be a HDD to block airflow. I might also add another 80/92mm exhaust on the CPU duct if necessary.
Thanks again to all who've made suggestions/comments.
I'll try attaching my plan-of-action thumbnail grid. (The red X's indicate I've got that component):
--
And here's a link to my Prisoner transcripts page, if anyone's interested:
http://www.prisoner.demon.co.uk/
OK, so after some more research here's my revised spec. (Feel free to comment, one & all):
Antec NSK3480 + Antec Earthwatts 500
Nexus 120mm B/W + Nexus 92mm B/W (case fans)
Asus P5E-VM + Intel Q9550 (Penryn) + Nexus LXM-8200 + Arctic Cooling MX-2
8GB OCZ Gold PC2-6400C5
Samsung 64GB 2.5" SSD
1TB WD Caviar "Green Power" + Nexus DiskTwin
Samsung SH-S203N
BFG 8800GTX OC2 768MB (refresh?)
Creative X-Fi Xtreme (PCI Express)
And here's my reasoning behind my choices:
If mcoleg & alexhd can run their GTXs on an EA380, bumping up to the EA500 (specifically for it's dedicated 2x6pin PCI Express cables) will do just fine. It only leaves me with the two Molex cables and the 8pin CPU to hide in the top bay. Being a standard ATX length (140mm) will make it an easier fit than the NeoHE 650. The unsleeved cables could be an advantage, as they will be easier to bend, wrap & tie off.
The Corsair VX450W or Seasonic S12II-430W were my other two options, but they're both 120mm - and I wanted a straight-through design to pull some air over the HDD that's going in the top bay (there won't be one in the lower), and let me cover across the entire top panel with acoustic matting.
I've had Nexus fans in the past, and they've been OK. Two black & white models (a 120 and 92mm) will serve as case fans. I switched from the OCZ Vendetta HSF - which is slightly more efficient - to the Nexus LXM-8200 for two reasons; I couldn't find an "open" 92mm PWM replacement fan, and it's just too fiddly for me to fit. The Nexus is all in one-piece and just clips in.
The Asus P5E-VM (G35) board looks very good - physically as well as on paper. The 4pin CPU socket is as the top, the 24pin at the right hand side, 4 RAM banks. Now that Creative have finally released a PCI Express X-Fi, that would fit above the GFX card (instead of the PCI Auzentech Prelude).
The Penryn 9550 is the 4x2.83GHz variant, with a 95W TDP. (Less than my X2 4800!). The 0.17GHz clock bump to the QX9650 isn't worth the hike to 130W TDP (even if it doesn't actually get anywhere near it in the real world) - and especially not twice the price. I don't overclock, as I don't want to stress the components/take the risk/increase the heat - and I want this build to last for 2-3 years.
The Samsung SSD will make Vista 64 fly (man, does it chatter - even with the indexing service turned off). Watch the demo on the samsungssd website. And yes, I do realise it's a fair chunk o' change...
Because the SSD will be my primary drive, I can afford for the data drive - the WD Caviar Green Power - to be slower than the regular 7200rpm drives. In fact, it's a good thing it does run "somewhere between 5400 and 7200rpm", consumes less power than normal, and has only 4 platters instead of 5 - as it all adds up to a cool, quiet & frugal drive. Mounting it on the DiskTwin brackets will move it up so air can blow underneath it, and maybe forward a bit to help with cable management.
The Samsung optical is a short one; only 170mm long, which should give me a 43mm gap. It has a long list of attributes, one of which is you can dial down the speed to ease vibrations. My current LG is great - but waiting for the FEAR Perseus Mandate disc to spin up late at night makes it sound like East Midlands airport. My cunning alternative is the LG GSA-E50L, which is a tiny external device. Unfortunately it would soak up a USB slot, and add yet another mains adapter.
http://us.lge.com/products/model/detail ... E50L.jhtml
I'd continue to use my GTS until Nvidia do their refresh of the GTX. It'd be expecting a lot of them to reduce the thermals... but I'd hope they won't increase them. If they do, the older - and hopefully by then cheaper - BFG 8800GTX OC2 will fit the bill. (It's almost on clock-par with the Ultra - and £100 less). The 92mm front fan will hopefully keep it cool, with the lowest PCI bracket removed for hot air to escape. There won't be a HDD to block airflow. I might also add another 80/92mm exhaust on the CPU duct if necessary.
Thanks again to all who've made suggestions/comments.
I'll try attaching my plan-of-action thumbnail grid. (The red X's indicate I've got that component):
--
And here's a link to my Prisoner transcripts page, if anyone's interested:
http://www.prisoner.demon.co.uk/
Quite the plan you have there .
It all sounds very good, though if I were you I would never get a GTX: wait for the 65nm refreshes, and if you must jump the gun on something get the 8800GT.
In any case, keep us posted, because when the gfx refreshes and the full range of Penryn CPUs come out, I'm going to be updating my system to something that will likely look alot like what you're planning.
.It all sounds very good, though if I were you I would never get a GTX: wait for the 65nm refreshes, and if you must jump the gun on something get the 8800GT.
In any case, keep us posted, because when the gfx refreshes and the full range of Penryn CPUs come out, I'm going to be updating my system to something that will likely look alot like what you're planning
.My NSK3480 arrived today.
Sorbet - I won't be committing myself to a GFX card for a few months yet. (My birthday's in March). Nvidia are supposed to be bringing out a G92x2, to match ATI's 3870x2. The ATI card is ~200W, and I should imagine the Nvidia one isn't far behind. I think they'll be a bit too big, greedy and hot. I don't want a current GTX - as you say, the refreshes shouldn't be long in coming out. If the new GTS isn't much of an improvement on my old one, I might look at the new GTX or I might wait for the next gen (G100). The 3870x2 might be short-lived; only six months if the pundits are to be believed. ATI's die-shrink to 45nm for the R700 could be a beauty. They're simply going to apply 1 chip for low end, 2 chips for mid-range and 4 chips for high-end (all on the one card).
BTW - I don't want a 8800GT. They're somewhere between a GTS and a GTX (when you crank up AA/AF), which isn't quite high enough up the ladder for me. Plus I'm not keen on noisy dinky fans that dump heat into the case...
I'll keep you posted as to how my [slightly protracted] build goes. For once, I'm gonna take my time with it.
The Penryns are phenomenal... no pun intended Not only in sheer grunt, but also in power usage. They're incredibly economical, and leave the Phenoms in the dust. One chart I've seen shows 73W full load for the 3.0GHz QX9650, whereas the 2.4GHz Phenom 9700 chews down 117W.
I'll post my first impressions, later. I've taken it all apart, had my ruler out, and played about positioning the EA380 and a dead HDD.
Sorbet - I won't be committing myself to a GFX card for a few months yet. (My birthday's in March). Nvidia are supposed to be bringing out a G92x2, to match ATI's 3870x2. The ATI card is ~200W, and I should imagine the Nvidia one isn't far behind. I think they'll be a bit too big, greedy and hot. I don't want a current GTX - as you say, the refreshes shouldn't be long in coming out. If the new GTS isn't much of an improvement on my old one, I might look at the new GTX or I might wait for the next gen (G100). The 3870x2 might be short-lived; only six months if the pundits are to be believed. ATI's die-shrink to 45nm for the R700 could be a beauty. They're simply going to apply 1 chip for low end, 2 chips for mid-range and 4 chips for high-end (all on the one card).
BTW - I don't want a 8800GT. They're somewhere between a GTS and a GTX (when you crank up AA/AF), which isn't quite high enough up the ladder for me. Plus I'm not keen on noisy dinky fans that dump heat into the case...
I'll keep you posted as to how my [slightly protracted] build goes. For once, I'm gonna take my time with it.
The Penryns are phenomenal... no pun intended Not only in sheer grunt, but also in power usage. They're incredibly economical, and leave the Phenoms in the dust. One chart I've seen shows 73W full load for the 3.0GHz QX9650, whereas the 2.4GHz Phenom 9700 chews down 117W.I'll post my first impressions, later. I've taken it all apart, had my ruler out, and played about positioning the EA380 and a dead HDD.
First Impressions
This is one well designed, engineered and built little case. It's not much deeper than my Shuttle, and only around 125mm taller. There wasn't a case as good as this when I got my SN25P. (The TJ08 was close, but wasn't finished off properly, eg. poorly fitting bay doors).
It's easier to open than my SN25P, as it needs just two thumbscrews removing instead of four. It's not as light or flimsy as you might expect, which is due to it being constructed of SECC instead of nasty paper-thin aluminium (like the SG03 and QPack).
My case came with a few improvements that older versions might not have:
(i) an 80mm CPU vent, with a short [removable] duct attached
(ii) vented PCI brackets with four large rectangular openings in each
(iii) a grill next to the PCI brackets to let air out
(iv) a hexagonal 120mm exhaust with very narrow (but sturdy) grill that you probably wouldn't gain any benefit from by cutting out
I could suggest a more few improvements for Antec's engineers, though:
(i) two washable 92mm filters behind the front fascia and across the lower "optical" bay grill to trap dust (which is a problem I want to lose from my SN25P)
(ii) thumbscrews for the PSU and HDD plates
(iii) installing the EA380 "swapped over" (like the SPCR review did), as it's easier to route all the cables that way
(iv) revisiting the wiring on the EA380; the first SATA power connectors are unusable, as they're too close to the PSU. (You can't install two SATA devices in the top bay using just the one cable).
(v) adding some acoustic insulation to the side panels
(vi) use silicone feet instead of rubber (again, as SPCR also suggested)
(vii) an extra 30mm in depth and height wouldn't go amiss, as it would enable 150mm deep PSUs to be [relatively] comfortably fitted, and a 15mm gap above and below the motherboard would let fingers get in and larger HSFs be fitted
(viii) move the CPU vent down to the GFX area (and lose the duct), as it would be of more use there
(ix) have a small PCB where the front-port wires enter the case, that you can attach varying length (short, medium or long) cables to, like they do in Shuttles. That would help reduce cable clutter, as some of the cables are needlessly long for such a small case.
(x) design an add-on modular bracket that can hold a short slimline optical and two 2.5in drives, to fit in the top 5.25in bay.
Fortunately, the first six of the above points you can accomplish yourself. You can buy fan filters - like Nexus or Fansis - for only £3. Nexus thumbscrews for £2. Buy a different PSU - if you're optical doesn't have a 4pin ("Molex") power connector as well as a SATA one. Nexus Damptek or Acousti (standard, not deluxe) insulation. Plus Acousti "very soft" silicone to finish the list.
I can only congratulate the people that have squeezed 150mm deep PSUs in, like the Corsair HX's or Antec NeoHE's. A modular would be ideal, but they just don't make any at the standard ATX spec of 140mm. I think for myself, I'll get the Earthwatts 500. That gives me two PCI Express connectors, SATA power connectors sensibly spaced out (I need all 4), and the only two remaining cables are the two Molex lines - which will be ideal for routing around to power the rear and front fans. That will make the upper bay empty of all spare power cables, requiring just one for the two SATA drives.
A 3.5in drive *just* fits in the top bay, only 1-2mm behind the grill. There's enough space for a regular SATA data cable behind it, which should ideally be fed through the opening in the bottom. (There should still be enough room to do this, even with a 150mm deep PSU - although you'd have to carefully slide your PSU in after you'd routed all the cables first). The soft silicone grommets look like they'd do an admirable job, although I've yet to be able to test them out. I'm not sure Nexus DiskTwin brackets will be required, or even if they'd fit - as I don't want to have to remove the grill in the lower bay, I need that to hold the filter material.
If you have a dual-slot graphics card, you can only fit a HDD in the lower compartment if it uses slot #1. If it uses slot #2 (the one below it), it will be too close to the HDD. Nvidia state the slot immediately beneath the graphics card should be left empty to aid airflow.
If you want a sound card (instead of a HDD), you need to choose a motherboard with a PCI or PCI Express x1 (or higher) slot in position #1 or #4. For example, if the board uses slot #2 for PCI Express x16, and has a x1 slot above it, you should be able to fit the new X-Fi PCI Express soundcard above your graphics card. (I would prefer to have #1 for graphics, and #4 for a PCI soundcard.)
Don't forget that using 2.5in drives (instead of 3.5in) is now a viable alternative. The prices have come down, while capacity and speeds have increased. You can get a 320GB 5400rpm drive, or a 200GB 7200rpm for around £115 or so. That's a lot more compared to their larger brethren, I'd agree - but they're much lighter (100g vs. 700g), quieter and generally cause less vibration. Plus you can even encase one in an enclosure the same size as a regular 3.5in drive.
I bought a 2.5-3.5in adapter plate (for £15), so I can use the floppy bay to install a Samsung SSD... or two. It could also be used to mount two 2.5in drives, which could leave the larger bays free.
If you haven't got a 170mm optical (such as Samsung, LG or LiteOn), then you'll need one. With a regular size ATX PSU, you'll then have 35mm clearance for cables.
There is indeed enough room for a GTX (at 275mm in length), although it would be a very tight fit to squeeze a front 92mm fan in at the same time - especially if you wanted to soft mount it. Fans slimmer than 25mm are hard to come by, and usually expensive. A Shuttle ICE replacement fan might fit the bill, if you can find one.
Sorry to prattle on so
. I'm just chuffed to bits with this little case. It's a real gem. It makes behemoth towers look silly. For a SOHO machine, it's a bargain - both a quality PSU *and* case.
If I can help anybody else out with measurements or such like, I'd be glad to - as the case will continue to be empty for a good while yet!
It's easier to open than my SN25P, as it needs just two thumbscrews removing instead of four. It's not as light or flimsy as you might expect, which is due to it being constructed of SECC instead of nasty paper-thin aluminium (like the SG03 and QPack).
My case came with a few improvements that older versions might not have:
(i) an 80mm CPU vent, with a short [removable] duct attached
(ii) vented PCI brackets with four large rectangular openings in each
(iii) a grill next to the PCI brackets to let air out
(iv) a hexagonal 120mm exhaust with very narrow (but sturdy) grill that you probably wouldn't gain any benefit from by cutting out
I could suggest a more few improvements for Antec's engineers, though:
(i) two washable 92mm filters behind the front fascia and across the lower "optical" bay grill to trap dust (which is a problem I want to lose from my SN25P)
(ii) thumbscrews for the PSU and HDD plates
(iii) installing the EA380 "swapped over" (like the SPCR review did), as it's easier to route all the cables that way
(iv) revisiting the wiring on the EA380; the first SATA power connectors are unusable, as they're too close to the PSU. (You can't install two SATA devices in the top bay using just the one cable).
(v) adding some acoustic insulation to the side panels
(vi) use silicone feet instead of rubber (again, as SPCR also suggested)
(vii) an extra 30mm in depth and height wouldn't go amiss, as it would enable 150mm deep PSUs to be [relatively] comfortably fitted, and a 15mm gap above and below the motherboard would let fingers get in and larger HSFs be fitted
(viii) move the CPU vent down to the GFX area (and lose the duct), as it would be of more use there
(ix) have a small PCB where the front-port wires enter the case, that you can attach varying length (short, medium or long) cables to, like they do in Shuttles. That would help reduce cable clutter, as some of the cables are needlessly long for such a small case.
(x) design an add-on modular bracket that can hold a short slimline optical and two 2.5in drives, to fit in the top 5.25in bay.
Fortunately, the first six of the above points you can accomplish yourself. You can buy fan filters - like Nexus or Fansis - for only £3. Nexus thumbscrews for £2. Buy a different PSU - if you're optical doesn't have a 4pin ("Molex") power connector as well as a SATA one. Nexus Damptek or Acousti (standard, not deluxe) insulation. Plus Acousti "very soft" silicone to finish the list.
I can only congratulate the people that have squeezed 150mm deep PSUs in, like the Corsair HX's or Antec NeoHE's. A modular would be ideal, but they just don't make any at the standard ATX spec of 140mm. I think for myself, I'll get the Earthwatts 500. That gives me two PCI Express connectors, SATA power connectors sensibly spaced out (I need all 4), and the only two remaining cables are the two Molex lines - which will be ideal for routing around to power the rear and front fans. That will make the upper bay empty of all spare power cables, requiring just one for the two SATA drives.
A 3.5in drive *just* fits in the top bay, only 1-2mm behind the grill. There's enough space for a regular SATA data cable behind it, which should ideally be fed through the opening in the bottom. (There should still be enough room to do this, even with a 150mm deep PSU - although you'd have to carefully slide your PSU in after you'd routed all the cables first). The soft silicone grommets look like they'd do an admirable job, although I've yet to be able to test them out. I'm not sure Nexus DiskTwin brackets will be required, or even if they'd fit - as I don't want to have to remove the grill in the lower bay, I need that to hold the filter material.
If you have a dual-slot graphics card, you can only fit a HDD in the lower compartment if it uses slot #1. If it uses slot #2 (the one below it), it will be too close to the HDD. Nvidia state the slot immediately beneath the graphics card should be left empty to aid airflow.
If you want a sound card (instead of a HDD), you need to choose a motherboard with a PCI or PCI Express x1 (or higher) slot in position #1 or #4. For example, if the board uses slot #2 for PCI Express x16, and has a x1 slot above it, you should be able to fit the new X-Fi PCI Express soundcard above your graphics card. (I would prefer to have #1 for graphics, and #4 for a PCI soundcard.)
Don't forget that using 2.5in drives (instead of 3.5in) is now a viable alternative. The prices have come down, while capacity and speeds have increased. You can get a 320GB 5400rpm drive, or a 200GB 7200rpm for around £115 or so. That's a lot more compared to their larger brethren, I'd agree - but they're much lighter (100g vs. 700g), quieter and generally cause less vibration. Plus you can even encase one in an enclosure the same size as a regular 3.5in drive.
I bought a 2.5-3.5in adapter plate (for £15), so I can use the floppy bay to install a Samsung SSD... or two.
It could also be used to mount two 2.5in drives, which could leave the larger bays free.If you haven't got a 170mm optical (such as Samsung, LG or LiteOn), then you'll need one. With a regular size ATX PSU, you'll then have 35mm clearance for cables.
There is indeed enough room for a GTX (at 275mm in length), although it would be a very tight fit to squeeze a front 92mm fan in at the same time - especially if you wanted to soft mount it. Fans slimmer than 25mm are hard to come by, and usually expensive. A Shuttle ICE replacement fan might fit the bill, if you can find one.
Sorry to prattle on so
. I'm just chuffed to bits with this little case. It's a real gem. It makes behemoth towers look silly. For a SOHO machine, it's a bargain - both a quality PSU *and* case.If I can help anybody else out with measurements or such like, I'd be glad to - as the case will continue to be empty for a good while yet!
I'm still waiting for my NSK3480 (motherboard for it not in stock yet) and when it arrives I'll be cutting the grills, just in case. This thread about fan grills might give you some ideas as well.
If you have time, could you measure and approximate if there's space to suspend a Scythe Quiet Drive at the front of the case, like the bare 3.5" drive in this build in a 3400? Its dimensions are 145 x 198 x 36.5 mm (W x D x H) so I suppose it would be a tight squeeze even that way, especially as I will be leaving the external 3.5" drive mount in. The other possible orientation would be on its side, right next to the side panel, assuming a large graphics card heat sink I might later add won't need the space left between the card and the panel.
The NSK3480 indeed feels like a very, very nice case and I can't wait getting my hands on it. Here is my thread about the NSK3480 which I'll be updating once I can get to work. Hopefully, within two weeks.
If you have time, could you measure and approximate if there's space to suspend a Scythe Quiet Drive at the front of the case, like the bare 3.5" drive in this build in a 3400? Its dimensions are 145 x 198 x 36.5 mm (W x D x H) so I suppose it would be a tight squeeze even that way, especially as I will be leaving the external 3.5" drive mount in. The other possible orientation would be on its side, right next to the side panel, assuming a large graphics card heat sink I might later add won't need the space left between the card and the panel.
The NSK3480 indeed feels like a very, very nice case and I can't wait getting my hands on it. Here is my thread about the NSK3480 which I'll be updating once I can get to work. Hopefully, within two weeks.
Jokoto - there's 215mm clearance below the internal 3.5" drive bay, 150mm between the front port cables and the side, and maybe 50mm between the mobo and the 92mm grills. So it should fit, but it would be very tight - and might cause a few headaches with attaching the port cables to the mobo. Plus it would block almost all incoming cool air.
There's 60mm clearance between the PCI slots and the side, so it would fit there much easier - and not restrict airflow. At least until you get your graphics card with it's large heatsink.
You might consider having the enclosure outside the case. With a 1m long SATA data cable, and a Molex extension/SATA power adapter, you could feed both cables through an empty PCI slot, and have the enclosure on it's side resting against the right-hand side of the case.
If you want everything to be internal, it'd be easier to get the 2.5" Scythe Quiet Drive and a 2.5" drive to go inside it. You could get a Seagate Momentus 200GB 7200rpm, or a Western Digital Scorpio 320GB 5400rpm. That would give you the advantage of being able to mount it in the top compartment. It shouldn't need suspending, as both the SQD and silicone grommets should remove most if not all vibration and noise.
Or, if you're aming for 100% silence from your HDD, you could pick up a Samsung 32GB PATA Solid State Disk (MCAQE32G5APP-0XA00) for about the same as an 8800GT (£220 or so). That would be enough for a fast OS drive, then you could use a 2.5" HDD just as a data drive.
If you want total silence from your PSU, you could consider the Fortron Zen 400W:
http://www.fspgroupusa.com/PC_RETAIL/ZEN400/ZEN400.html
http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&articID=574
I can't find any dimensions for it anywhere, but it should be regular ATX size. It's open at the top, and there would be five rows of grill above it for convection. It should transfer some of it's heat to the case too. If you got a C2D @ 65W, and an 8800GT @ ~100W, even adding the mobo, chipset and drives shouldn't take you much past 200W load. It's very efficient. And it looks like the wires even come out on the best side for the 3480 (otherwise you probably wouldn't be able to fit the 4pin CPU power).
It'd be a bit of a risk, admittedly - and it's not a cheap option. But you're probably best off trying the EA380 to see how you find it first. If you're technically savvy, you could then try a fan swap before spending any more money.
[Edit] -> After looking at the pics more closely, the length of the Zen looks more like 180mm, which would be far too long.
Judging from the dust on the fans in some pics (with the grills removed), a pair of 92mm fan filters at the front will be essential. They might not stop the finest particles, but anything's better than nothing.
Good luck with your build!
There's 60mm clearance between the PCI slots and the side, so it would fit there much easier - and not restrict airflow. At least until you get your graphics card with it's large heatsink.
You might consider having the enclosure outside the case. With a 1m long SATA data cable, and a Molex extension/SATA power adapter, you could feed both cables through an empty PCI slot, and have the enclosure on it's side resting against the right-hand side of the case.
If you want everything to be internal, it'd be easier to get the 2.5" Scythe Quiet Drive and a 2.5" drive to go inside it. You could get a Seagate Momentus 200GB 7200rpm, or a Western Digital Scorpio 320GB 5400rpm. That would give you the advantage of being able to mount it in the top compartment. It shouldn't need suspending, as both the SQD and silicone grommets should remove most if not all vibration and noise.
Or, if you're aming for 100% silence from your HDD, you could pick up a Samsung 32GB PATA Solid State Disk (MCAQE32G5APP-0XA00) for about the same as an 8800GT (£220 or so). That would be enough for a fast OS drive, then you could use a 2.5" HDD just as a data drive.
If you want total silence from your PSU, you could consider the Fortron Zen 400W:
http://www.fspgroupusa.com/PC_RETAIL/ZEN400/ZEN400.html
http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&articID=574
I can't find any dimensions for it anywhere, but it should be regular ATX size. It's open at the top, and there would be five rows of grill above it for convection. It should transfer some of it's heat to the case too. If you got a C2D @ 65W, and an 8800GT @ ~100W, even adding the mobo, chipset and drives shouldn't take you much past 200W load. It's very efficient. And it looks like the wires even come out on the best side for the 3480 (otherwise you probably wouldn't be able to fit the 4pin CPU power).
It'd be a bit of a risk, admittedly - and it's not a cheap option. But you're probably best off trying the EA380 to see how you find it first. If you're technically savvy, you could then try a fan swap before spending any more money.
[Edit] -> After looking at the pics more closely, the length of the Zen looks more like 180mm, which would be far too long.
Judging from the dust on the fans in some pics (with the grills removed), a pair of 92mm fan filters at the front will be essential. They might not stop the finest particles, but anything's better than nothing.
Good luck with your build!
Great, thank you! So, it's a bit tighter than I anticipated, which doesn't come as a surprise. Luckily it's still doable. I hope. For the PSU, I will be using the EarthWatts after I swap the fan - going fanless with the PSU is no guarantee of silence, as I have learned with my Phantom 500. Its coils whine under graphics load, and I only have a 7600 GS! It's my second Phantom as well; the first one developed a permanent coil whine. As for the hard drive, I want to use the parts I already have, that is a 5.25" SQD and a 3.5" 500 GB Samsung T166 (though at the moment I still have a 320 GB Barracuda in there). Internal placement is the way to go. External solution would partly defeat the purpose of having such a small case. If it seems like it blocks airflow if placed at the front, I'm prepared to make some vents to the side panel itself, in the lower front corner. I just need to find a way to make it look as tidy as humanly possible with the tools I have or can get my hands on.
Maybe you are better off cutting a few holes (or a lot of smaller ones) in the bottom of the case. Tidy and possibly more quiet. Just be sure there is enough room for airflow between the surface the case is standing on and the vents. 1" should be enough.Jokoto wrote:If it seems like it blocks airflow if placed at the front, I'm prepared to make some vents to the side panel itself, in the lower front corner. I just need to find a way to make it look as tidy as humanly possible with the tools I have or can get my hands on.