Ok, I got I a great deal on a Lian Li PC-V2010B (just 99€) so I went for it...I am expecting it to be delivered some time in the day (edit: just in), and I'm wondering whether I should dampen it before setting up the system...
In Greece the following Sound Dampening materials are available:
- Akasa PaxMate (but it doesn't do much does it?)
- Spire SoundPad (I'd say a little better than PaxMate, more dense)
The above are just included in the list but the real choice is between
1) Fractal Design - Noise Absorber Kit = 26€ (maybe x 2) http://www.fractal-design.com/?view=pro ... =7&prod=24
It features the known bitumen 2mm layer with 14mm of sound absorbing foam
- two pieces for top/bottom 175x400mm
- one such piece for left panel 350x400mm
- one bitumen only piece for right panel...
I's not enough of course to cover the huge sides of the Lian Li, but I guess I won't be applying the bottom piece, so I could cover some spare room with that...it could still take more than one kit to keep it uniform and nice though, but it will be mostly ok...
I'm a little worried about the smell, which is greater on this soft-bitumen layer, but paired with the foam maybe it will be less...
2) Be Quiet Noise Absorber Kit, Universal Big = 26,50€ (maybe x 2) http://www.bit-tech.net/modding/2007/09 ... rber_kit/1
It features Six 400 x 240mm pieces of foam of which contains:
- one 20mm foam unit with honeycomb foam
- five 10mm insulating boards with 2.2mm dense “specialâ€
Which Noise-Absorbing Kit?
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Devonavar
Cooltek was the prior name of Fractal Design so that kit is old. I have the Be Quiet kit and I'm not all satisfied, it does stay on real nicely but it's too thick for behind motherboard tray and it's shape isn't the best for breaking waves of high-pitched noise, speaker foam is better in my opinion.
If you can, buy speaker foam and bitumen pieces, if not, buy Fractal Design kit and spare yourself some trouble.
If you can, buy speaker foam and bitumen pieces, if not, buy Fractal Design kit and spare yourself some trouble.
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N7SC
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Have you looked at or for the Lian Li sound dampening kits? Here is a link to them at a US internet retailer. Maybe some of the more experienced guys here can comment on these kits. If they are good, I might buy one to further quiet down my Lian Li PC-A10A.
http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g43/c24 ... Page1.html
http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g43/c24 ... Page1.html
Fractal-Design is former Cooltek, really? I had the impression Cooltek was a german company...Cooltek was the prior name of Fractal Design so that kit is old. I have the Be Quiet kit and I'm not all satisfied, it does stay on real nicely but it's too thick for behind motherboard tray and it's shape isn't the best for breaking waves of high-pitched noise, speaker foam is better in my opinion.
If you can, buy speaker foam and bitumen pieces, if not, buy Fractal Design kit and spare yourself some trouble.
I don't think the Cooltek kit is that old (and even so, it could still be effective)...to my mind it would be a good compromise...it features thick bitumen layer, thick foam layer, but not too thick, it has the honeycomb surface...its foam is soft AND dense, making it somewhat less frail/sensitive...
...however, the bitumen pasteboard piece it includes is not as good as the one included in their dual layer piece (bitumen + foam)...the former is thinner, dryer (if I may say so) and more lightweight, I doubt it would do much by itself on the right panel...on that matter, only a single - and small - piece of that bitumen pasteboard is included in the package, so even with three of them, the right panel wouldn't be completely covered...
(see photo of Cooltek 395)
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I do like the Fractal Design kit, surely...but I might have liked having some foam material on the right side of the lower compartment of the v2010B too...of course, if I buy two such kits, that can easily be done...as for the upper compartment, that heavy bitumen that Fractal Design uses is probably the best solution...
but then it's that 1,6cm thickness...that's a lot! Hopefully it translates into better noise dampening, but it does take up space...if it's applied on both sides, that makes 3,2cm!
My main grip with this product (apart from an expected smell, at first only hopefully) relating to its thickness is that it may touch the hard drives on the left panel, since the width of the case is not that big (in fact that is a main complaint about this case)...moreover, if it had that honeycomb surface, it might have been better/more efficient...
To sum up, if the benefits of each product were combined, we would have a clear winner...a kit with a thick, heavy bitumen layer for the right panel {as in Fractal-Design} and a thinner (10-12mm) combination mat on the left panel, with a denser (than that of Fractal Design - judging by its appearance) foam layer featuring honeycomb structure {Cooltek}...
If I may complicate things even more, some friends here suggested I shouldn't even use any of these sound dampening material, or that I shouldn't pre-apply them, that is, I should test the case without them first and see if it's needed
@N7SC
Having such pads cut in the exact dimensions you're looking for is the biggest advantage...but they could only suffer efficiency-wise in comparison to more elaborate solutions like the above...
And what an expensive call that will be over the Atlantic...although I do enjoy speaking to crazy and polite people (they're abundant in the area)
It has actually occurred to me to see what more "industrial "grade components have to offer...besides unbeatable price...
A greek shop that seems to have adequate variety materials and compatible with my purposes is the following (you won't be able to read it, but pictures speak too)
http://www.lazarakis-constructions.gr/p ... hp?cid=274
http://www.lazarakis-constructions.gr/p ... hp?cid=392
The first item in both lists drew my attention...
It has actually occurred to me to see what more "industrial "grade components have to offer...besides unbeatable price...
A greek shop that seems to have adequate variety materials and compatible with my purposes is the following (you won't be able to read it, but pictures speak too)
http://www.lazarakis-constructions.gr/p ... hp?cid=274
http://www.lazarakis-constructions.gr/p ... hp?cid=392
The first item in both lists drew my attention...
It seems the space between the left panel and the hdd box is only 1.7cm (from the hdd box to the right side its 5.1 cm)...
...this immediately rules out fractal design's kit (at 16mm), so I guess the choice will be among be quiet (10mm) and cooltek (12mm)
...but it also makes me wonder whether I should opt for one a these thicker sound dampeners...
Do you think that limiting the space between the left panel and the hdds -from 17mm to 5-7mm- will have an impact on airflow, around the hdds? The space on the right side is not going to be that free either, since it will be taken up by cables...
Should I just use one of those thinner sound dampeners (4mm)?
...this immediately rules out fractal design's kit (at 16mm), so I guess the choice will be among be quiet (10mm) and cooltek (12mm)
...but it also makes me wonder whether I should opt for one a these thicker sound dampeners...
Do you think that limiting the space between the left panel and the hdds -from 17mm to 5-7mm- will have an impact on airflow, around the hdds? The space on the right side is not going to be that free either, since it will be taken up by cables...
Should I just use one of those thinner sound dampeners (4mm)?
That Akasa crapmat is best used for wiping rear.N7SC wrote:Have you looked at or for the Lian Li sound dampening kits? Here is a link to them at a US internet retailer. Maybe some of the more experienced guys here can comment on these kits. If they are good, I might buy one to further quiet down my Lian Li PC-A10A.
http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g43/c24 ... Page1.html
Basic bitumen felt/mat/tape/what ever they call it in general store is better.
Airflow isn't sideways so it doesn't affect to cooling but it's better to check well how much there's extra space in side of cables because SATA connectors aren't the strongest ones.Pierre wrote:Do you think that limiting the space between the left panel and the hdds -from 17mm to 5-7mm- will have an impact on airflow, around the hdds? The space on the right side is not going to be that free either, since it will be taken up by cables...
Hi Piere,
Be quiet noise absorber kit fit in my antec solo, the bitumous layer do a great job for the vibration noise, but the foam is not very thick as I was thinking,
Here a review!
Be quiet noise absorber kit fit in my antec solo, the bitumous layer do a great job for the vibration noise, but the foam is not very thick as I was thinking,
Here a review!
The "trouble" with bequiet maybe less its width and more its flat surface with decreased sound absorbing efficiency...
The bitumen-paper layer is indeed very effective...
I have gone more with the Cooltek kit, but I've also used "industrial" bitumen paper with Spire soundpad where width needs to be minimal...
I have given up on the Lian Li 2010B though...Hdd temp was +4-8 degrees Celcius so I've sold it and reinforced my Chieftec BA-01 case instead...
The problem with the Lian Li is that it has no low department exhaust...the psu takes up the task of pushing out hot air, but the orientation of its fan is sideways, just 1cm from the side panel, so its "breathing space" is small...it cannot perform that duty efficiently...
I can't see why they didn't use some exhaust fan down there, or just some grills...
The bitumen-paper layer is indeed very effective...
I have gone more with the Cooltek kit, but I've also used "industrial" bitumen paper with Spire soundpad where width needs to be minimal...
I have given up on the Lian Li 2010B though...Hdd temp was +4-8 degrees Celcius so I've sold it and reinforced my Chieftec BA-01 case instead...
The problem with the Lian Li is that it has no low department exhaust...the psu takes up the task of pushing out hot air, but the orientation of its fan is sideways, just 1cm from the side panel, so its "breathing space" is small...it cannot perform that duty efficiently...
I can't see why they didn't use some exhaust fan down there, or just some grills...
With Lian Li cases IMHO the major issue that you might worry about is vibration. They are excellent cases in general and they are much better then most aluminum cases in this regard - but IF you wanted something extra quiet..
I like Dynamat extreme (which uses a heavy rubber kind of layer instead of tar - which could smell bad). To make it look better I put some regular foam on top of it.. You can get stuff cheaper then pax or the Lian Li stuff..that's basically the same stuff.
Another even cheaper option is vinyl tile. its pretty heavy so it will weight load your case and prevent resonance. But Dynamat with its stickyness is easy.
Nothing wrong with the Lian Li kit - but you can find that same kind of foam cheaper. I found some cheap foam from some obscure retailer - but sadly I have forgotten where. I do know that the speciality retailers really overcharge for the foam stuff. I mean 38 bucks for foam?. I think mine cost 12. I got a roll of the dynamat stuff from an auto retailer ..
I like Dynamat extreme (which uses a heavy rubber kind of layer instead of tar - which could smell bad). To make it look better I put some regular foam on top of it.. You can get stuff cheaper then pax or the Lian Li stuff..that's basically the same stuff.
Another even cheaper option is vinyl tile. its pretty heavy so it will weight load your case and prevent resonance. But Dynamat with its stickyness is easy.
Nothing wrong with the Lian Li kit - but you can find that same kind of foam cheaper. I found some cheap foam from some obscure retailer - but sadly I have forgotten where. I do know that the speciality retailers really overcharge for the foam stuff. I mean 38 bucks for foam?. I think mine cost 12. I got a roll of the dynamat stuff from an auto retailer ..
Lot of wrong in it regardless what it costs.GuyClinch wrote:Nothing wrong with the Lian Li kit - but you can find that same kind of foam cheaper.
Mike Chin's analysis about this Akasa/Lian Li/Spire etc is dead on:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/AcoustiPack_delux
Calling it as any noise absorption stuff is simply pretty much frauding and selling coconuts as oranges. (you can eat both but...)
Don't worry so much about vibration basing to just material, with mass damping and rubber grommet HDD mounting and notable pile of HDDs (like RAID10 main disk) PC-A71 vibrates quite little.
Very heavy steel Chieftec DA-01 with up to 3-4mm of bitumen (previous owner had used it liberally) in panels vibrated lot more with few hard mounted HDDs.
You just need to check that case doesn't have any of those Lian Li's plastic rails/light metal HDD caddy acoustic screw ups (like in their "Chassis with silent solution" PC-B70 and PC-B71) but just plain old fashioned rubber grommets.
Well the Lian Li PC-V2010B was nowhere near the Chieftec BA-01 with regard to noise, even though the latter features grills on the left panel - and most importantly right in front of the hdds - it lacks rubber/soft mounting for the hdds, and does not keep the hdds in a different compartment, which plays its role in limiting drive noise...
The Chieftec does not really need bitumen/damping layer with its 1mm secc steel, what it needs is sound absorbing material...
I have owned the case for several years and have kept up to 10 drives inside...
Its main problem - apart from the grills - is its drive rails...the combination of the two can cause trouble and that's where whine or noise can come from...but I've found it's still quieter than most...
During the past months I have been desperately searching for a quieter chassis, but have only come to appreciate the Chieftec more...
This search lead me to the Coolermaster Cosmos, the Fractal Design Define R2 and the Lian Li 2010B...
- The Cosmos was a tad quieter (but with fewer, not all my drives installed) but had hdd temp problems, arrangement issues etc
- The Define R2 sounded like a jet in comparison with the Chieftec
- The Lian Li vibrated strongly periodically (more than the Chieftec used to when I had drives that vibrated more), and had lousy hdd temps...
All the above were eventually resold...
With a lot of damping and sound absorbing material the Lian Li could become quiet enough for me, maybe even quieter than the Chieftec, but I could not come to terms with the really bad hdd temps...
Yet the Lian Li 2010 generally features - to my mind - a great design with a very good perspective for building a silent case...and it would the best case for me IF:
- it was made of steel
- it was wider, so that the damping would not come so close to almost touching the drives on the left panel
- it featured an exhaust for hot air on the lower department
- the PSU mounted differently, with the fan not pointing towards the closer side panel
So, I will not be buying another case until the new full tower Fractal Design case is released (and I really hope that past faults will be dealt with)
Regarding the noise-damping/absorbing material, I believe the best balance of features rests with Cooltek because
- It has a combination of bitumen paper and sound absorbing foam
- Its foam has some greater absorbing potential thanks to its non-uniform surface in comparison to other kits out there
- its not too wide so that problems could arise regarding available space
- It has separate bitumen-paper for those areas like the back of the case
But if one was to make the best combination by himself that would be with
- industrial bitumen paper (just like the one cooltek features)...
- foam with anomalous surface....
both found at stores which sell insulation material (mainly for building purposes)
Yet this solution has the drawback of greater width, when that can become a problem...
The Chieftec does not really need bitumen/damping layer with its 1mm secc steel, what it needs is sound absorbing material...
I have owned the case for several years and have kept up to 10 drives inside...
Its main problem - apart from the grills - is its drive rails...the combination of the two can cause trouble and that's where whine or noise can come from...but I've found it's still quieter than most...
During the past months I have been desperately searching for a quieter chassis, but have only come to appreciate the Chieftec more...
This search lead me to the Coolermaster Cosmos, the Fractal Design Define R2 and the Lian Li 2010B...
- The Cosmos was a tad quieter (but with fewer, not all my drives installed) but had hdd temp problems, arrangement issues etc
- The Define R2 sounded like a jet in comparison with the Chieftec
- The Lian Li vibrated strongly periodically (more than the Chieftec used to when I had drives that vibrated more), and had lousy hdd temps...
All the above were eventually resold...
With a lot of damping and sound absorbing material the Lian Li could become quiet enough for me, maybe even quieter than the Chieftec, but I could not come to terms with the really bad hdd temps...
Yet the Lian Li 2010 generally features - to my mind - a great design with a very good perspective for building a silent case...and it would the best case for me IF:
- it was made of steel
- it was wider, so that the damping would not come so close to almost touching the drives on the left panel
- it featured an exhaust for hot air on the lower department
- the PSU mounted differently, with the fan not pointing towards the closer side panel
So, I will not be buying another case until the new full tower Fractal Design case is released (and I really hope that past faults will be dealt with)
Regarding the noise-damping/absorbing material, I believe the best balance of features rests with Cooltek because
- It has a combination of bitumen paper and sound absorbing foam
- Its foam has some greater absorbing potential thanks to its non-uniform surface in comparison to other kits out there
- its not too wide so that problems could arise regarding available space
- It has separate bitumen-paper for those areas like the back of the case
But if one was to make the best combination by himself that would be with
- industrial bitumen paper (just like the one cooltek features)...
- foam with anomalous surface....
both found at stores which sell insulation material (mainly for building purposes)
Yet this solution has the drawback of greater width, when that can become a problem...
Well I think i phrased it badly when I said "nothing wrong." Those foam things are pretty much for looks. If you use Dynamat Extreme (for mass loading) like I suggested you need something to cover it up with. The foam stuff is thin and many squelch high frequencies a tiny tiny bit. But the major bonus of it is looks.That Akasa crapmat is best used for wiping rear.
Basic bitumen felt/mat/tape/what ever they call it in general store is better.
I am not sure they are ENTIRELY useless though. The general idea is that you layer a mass loading layer (the dynamat extreme) and they layer a pad on top of it.
It's the same method used in car audio.
If your redoing your car you put down a layer of Dynamat extreme and then a layer of foam.
Of course that might be expensive. Personally if all you want is mass loading just get something like this..
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdet ... er=268-035
Vinyl sheets...pretty cheap I think and gets good rating.
If you want foam ontop something like this..
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdet ... er=260-318
But it has no adhesive. Anyway i am happy with my results with the dynamat extreme. its worth it with a pure aluminum case. Yeah the foam does hardly anything..I agree.