Idea for next update to P18X line - red LEDs

[m0002a]

I think the point is that the Mini is bigger than many cases that take full ATX boards, whilst having the disadvantage of restricting you to using uATX boards. Less choice is rarely a good thing. It's really only in the very recent past that uATX boards have been up-to-scratch spec-wise, even now there are often compromises on specs and/or cost.

The only benefit of a uATX board is that it allows for smaller builds - that benefit is entirely negated if you put it in a case larger than you could achieve with full ATX.

Why is a uATX board a disadvantage if one only uses one slot for video, and there is still room for one more adapter if needed (which few people will even need). In looking at photos of builds posted on this forum, it is rare that there is any other adapter slot being used besides for a video card (in fact, I don't recall seeing a photo of any build using another adapter slot in addition to video, and some don't even have a video card becasue of on-board video).

If one wants the features of a P18x (bottom PSU, sandwich panels, etc) and look of the gunmetal case, then the Mini P180 is noticeably smaller than the nearly identical P183. I will never even use all the expansion capacity of the Mini P180 or uATX board.

Regarding whether uATX boards are only recently full featured, I can't imagine anyone buying a used board with a new Mini P180, so that doesn't seem like an issue any more. But I am not sure it ever was an issue since this is a forum about Silent PC's, and many of us are looking for low noise and high efficiency, and not necessarily at the most mb features, most hard drive capacity, etc.

[edh]

Why is a uATX board a disadvantage if one only uses one slot for video

It's not a disadvantage, no one ever argued that it was. The Mini however is not a good use of the uATX advantage, ie. it is not small enough versus the rest of the P18x range.

You have also not considered at all the commercial aspects that I have brought up. Antec does not exist as a hobbyist interest. It is a commerical venture. There has been speculation that Antec may bring to an end the Mini line, this can only mean that it is in some way commercially unsuccessful. Regradless of your niche need for a P183 that is only slightly smaller than a P183 and costs almost the same whilst having features more in line with the older P180 and P182, it does not have a strong enough USP to commerically justify it's own existence.

You do know what USP stands for, right?

[stavroguine]

If one wants the features of a P18x (bottom PSU, sandwich panels, etc) and look of the gunmetal case, then the Mini P180 is noticeably smaller than the nearly identical P183. I will never even use all the expansion capacity of the Mini P180 or uATX board.

I really appreciate this case (having it for more than two years), it's really silent and has good vent, but.... I would like it even more if it was smaller. What about a P180nano for mini-itx board ? Something with the same size as the lian li pc q08.

[Parappaman]

Now... what was the topic? ?

[danimal]

As I explained previously, with the 200 mm top fan (at low speed and almost inaudible) I can run my CPU cooler passively (that's right, no fan on the CPU cooler). CPU idles at 21C.

spcr readers have done passive cooling many times, with a smaller case, that doesn't have a big noisy fan on top.

Don't you think it is childish to retaliate for our disagreement in the Off-Topic thread?

i'm retaliating, because i proved that you were wrong in that thread? lol

people in this thread are disagreeing with you because you are posting bogus advice.

[danimal]

I will never even use all the expansion capacity of the Mini P180 or uATX board.

further proof that you bought the wrong case for your computer build.

the mini p180 is big, and it has a big fan that's designed to move a lot of air... it's designed for high-performance.

[m0002a]

It's not a disadvantage, no one ever argued that it was. The Mini however is not a good use of the uATX advantage, ie. it is not small enough versus the rest of the P18x range.

I will respectfully disagree with you on this. The Mini P180 is noticeaably smaller than the P183. Even if it were only 1 mm smaller, there is no reason to get a P183 if one doesn't need the extra space.

You have also not considered at all the commercial aspects that I have brought up. Antec does not exist as a hobbyist interest. It is a commerical venture. There has been speculation that Antec may bring to an end the Mini line, this can only mean that it is in some way commercially unsuccessful. Regradless of your niche need for a P183 that is only slightly smaller than a P183 and costs almost the same whilst having features more in line with the older P180 and P182, it does not have a strong enough USP to commerically justify it's own existence.

You do know what USP stands for, right?

The major retailers no longer seem to have the Mini P180 in stock, so that is where the speculation is coming from.

As to whether it is a niche product, the entire P18x series is a niche product born out of a collaboration with the SPCR Publisher. Unfortunately, some people have misunderstood the Mini P180 and have trashed it in reviews on this forum (and scared off potential buyers), but if you were to ask people who actually have one, I think you will find they are extremely satisfied with it. So your (and others) negative opinions of the Mini P180 has become a self-fulfilling prophesy.

If ones runs the 200 mm fan at low speed (it has 3 speed switch), it makes very little noise, and provides very effective cooling through the top vent, in a much smaller package than P183. I suspect the biggest problem many hobbyists have is that they can't easily replace the 200 mm fan with their favorite brand. Some people just can't emotionally handle running an Antec fan in their case (no matter how quiet it is).

If actually had a problem with fan noise on the 200mm fan, I would just put a fan on my CPU cooler (currently fanless) and take out the 200 mm fan. Obviously it helps if the CPU cooler is orientated to exhaust straight up with a fan on it (mine is).

[m0002a]

further proof that you bought the wrong case for your computer build.

the mini p180 is big, and it has a big fan that's designed to move a lot of air... it's designed for high-performance.

I have had the Mini P180 for more than 1 year, and am extremely happy with it. I would like to get another for a 2nd computer that I need.

When you have a large fan, you can run it slower, and with less noise. You may recall that it was not that long ago that all PSU fans were 80 mm or smaller, but they increased to 120 mm so they could be run slower and quieter.

If the 200 mm fan really bothers anyone, it can be removed since hot air radiates upward. Some people have removed the fan and even plugged the vent. There are lots of options.

Keep in mind that the P183 also has a top vent and fan (120mm).

[m0002a]

Now... what was the topic? :?: ?

Normally I might feel guilty about hijacking the thread, but arguing about the color of an LED is a bit trivial to me.

[Das_Saunamies]

Thanks for the F.lux tip! Even if the concept sounds rather peculiar, I'm willing to give it a go if it gets my eyes and body to rest more naturally. I've ruined my rhythm too many times with late-night work (and games) that could well have waited.

And I want the good old days back: green for power, red for HDD damnit. Having a battery of blue lights is less indicative and more annoying.

Edit1: Yeah, I don't know what that smiley was for.

[edh]

I will respectfully disagree with you on this. The Mini P180 is noticeaably smaller than the P183. Even if it were only 1 mm smaller, there is no reason to get a P183 if one doesn't need the extra space.

You are considering YOUR view point here only. Remember that commerical success depends upon overall trends and the fact that you happen to like it is no reason on it's own for them to continue it. For most people the 1mm just wouldn't be enough. Imagine running some marketing research in a world where no Mini exists. You have a population of potential P183 customers in the room who are only going to be using a uATX motherboard. You are Antec and are doing market research into uATX cases. Your individual view is entirely irrelevant. You ask all of them how much smaller the case would have to be to justify them buying it over the P183. Naturally a small number (like you) will accept any reduction in size however others will have other concerns. What if they change their mind in future and want to move to a full ATX motherboard? What if they want more than a certain number of hard disks or optical drives in future? What if they are interested in using a CTX power supply? You will therefore find that different people have a different size differential which would justify them moving to a uATX case. You will find some people who wouldn't move to it unless it's absolutely tiny and some who won't move to it at all. Do not dismiss these people view, they are potential customer and their opinion is important to the commerical success of the product. Plot the accumulative numbers of the respondents and you will find a soft curve. It's then for you as a marketeer to pick out the size that will make your product most succesful. Antec clearly didn't hit the curve correctly. Regardless of what concept they may have had during design, it's not been successful.

The major retailers no longer seem to have the Mini P180 in stock, so that is where the speculation is coming from.

So retailers don't have it in stock? That'll be for commercial reasons then. While they may chose to range such a product, keeping it in stock is expensive if you're not shifting enough of them.

but if you were to ask people who actually have one, I think you will find they are extremely satisfied with it.

It doesn't matter how satisfied you are with it. No one is saying it's a bad case. You will be satisfied with it because it fits your need. What about asking people who didn't buy it? That's why it isn't commerically successful.

So your (and others) negative opinions of the Mini P180 has become a self-fulfilling prophesy.

I was strongly considering the Mini for my last system. I really like it. It's just not small enough though. This doesn't mean that I think it's a bad case and I'm sure if this is the specific need you have, buy it. I'm just laying out some reasons why they might chose to remove it from their catalogue. Reasons you won't accept because you're too attached to your own opinions. No one however is stopping you from buying another.

[Parappaman]

Now... what was the topic? ?

Normally I might feel guilty about hijacking the thread, but arguing about the color of an LED is a bit trivial to me.

Though it's the topic of this thread.

Look guys, I don't know why you're arguing on the Mini. I have one and know at least 4 people who have one, not counting the ones on the intarwebz. We all love it. It's smaller than a middle tower (mainly shorter, as its height is similar) and has more airflow than 99% of other mATX cases. It's heavy and fat, but can fit enough stuff to run either a quad-Crossfire rig, a REALLY quiet PC or a storage server, and any combination in-between, with relative ease. As far as I can see, it has been a success, even convincing motherboard vendors to create marvels like the DFI P45 JR and many more enthusiast mATX stuff after that. If you don't like it, don't buy it. When did it get harder than this?

[m0002a]

So retailers don't have it in stock? That'll be for commercial reasons then. While they may chose to range such a product, keeping it in stock is expensive if you're not shifting enough of them.

No, I don't think it has anything to do with the retailers, I think that Antec decided to stop making it. If they were to come out with an upgrade, that would be fine, but an Antec rep claims there is no upgrade.

If it dies and there is no upgrade, then I blame those on this forum who have dissed it, based on faulty analysis and logic.

As I pointed out previously, the one thing some are not realizing is that the reason the Mini P180 works so well is the bottom PSU and top vent (with or without fan). Hot air rises straight up even without a fan (or a very slow fan). But in order to make this work well under a desk, maximum room above the top vent is needed, and the two inches shorter height of the Mini P180 compared to the P183 makes a big difference in this regard.

Some people have been freaked out by the 200 mm fan and falsely concluded that the case is only for high power systems, when in fact it works great when trying to build an energy efficient and quiet system.

BTW, even though the case is discontinued at Newegg, you can still read the exceptionally good customer reviews:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811129041

[KayDat]

If you don't like it, don't buy it. When did it get harder than this?

I suspect that is exactly what the market is doing. Not buying the mini. When I was doing research before buying my P183, I had considered the mini, before quickly putting it aside. Many of the points stated earlier are quite clear.
Benefits of uATX are smaller size builds. Cons are less flexibility and higher cost (relatively speaking).
Benefits of ATX are greater flexibility and features, and Cons are size.
The general issue with the mini is that, it takes the limitations of uATX and marries it with the size issues of a general ATX case.
I'm not saying that the case is rubbish or badly built, clearly many people enjoy their case. But targeting the market as a whole, it's neither here nor there.

So retailers don't have it in stock? That'll be for commercial reasons then. While they may chose to range such a product, keeping it in stock is expensive if you're not shifting enough of them.

No, I don't think it has anything to do with the retailers, I think that Antec decided to stop making it. If they were to come out with an upgrade, that would be fine, but an Antec rep claims there is no upgrade.

If it dies and there is no upgrade, then I blame those on this forum who have dissed it, based on faulty analysis and logic.

...

BTW, even though the case is discontinued at Newegg, you can still read the exceptionally good customer reviews:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811129041

You know...I'm going to have to agree with edh here...companies don't make nilly willy derisions without reason. I doubt Antec came across a few forum posts and thought, "Oh hey, we've been completely wrong about this, let's just ditch this product and EOL it". If it sells, they will keep selling it. Plenty of people here make comments about many "gamer" cases with more fans and walls with more holes than metal...and yet they sell like hot cakes.

Again, we never said that it was a bad product per se, it just doesn't really hit a market segment very well.

[m0002a]

You know...I'm going to have to agree with edh here...companies don't make nilly willy derisions without reason. I doubt Antec came across a few forum posts and thought, "Oh hey, we've been completely wrong about this, let's just ditch this product and EOL it". If it sells, they will keep selling it. Plenty of people here make comments about many "gamer" cases with more fans and walls with more holes than metal...and yet they sell like hot cakes.

Again, we never said that it was a bad product per se, it just doesn't really hit a market segment very well.

Where do you think the original P180 came from? It came from a collaboration with the publisher of this forum. Some of the later enhancements came from this forum. So they do pay a lot of attention to this forum regarding quiet PC's, which is the main purpose of the P18x series. Those three-layer side panel (aluminum, plastic, aluminum) are not cheap to make.

On Newegg, the P183 has 162 customer reviews and the Mini P180 has 247 reviews, so that suggests that probably the Mini P180 actually sold better than the P183. Both are rated identically (average 4.64 out of 5 stars).

I don't think the P183 is selling all that well, so your day will come bud, and I predict you and others will be squealing like a pig.

[KayDat]

Where do you think the original P180 came from? It came from a collaboration with the publisher of this forum. Some of the later enhancements came from this forum. So they do pay a lot of attention to this forum regarding quiet PC's, which is the main purpose of the P18x series. Those three-layer side panel (aluminum, plastic, aluminum) are not cheap to make.

On Newegg, the P183 has 162 customer reviews and the Mini P180 has 247 reviews, so that suggests that probably the Mini P180 actually sold better than the P183. Both are rated identically (average 4.64 out of 5 stars).

I don't think the P183 is selling all that well, so your day will come bud, and I predict you and others will be squealing like a pig.

I never said they don't pay attention to forums. Indeed, the P180 and many improvements came with collaboration with SPCR...but if a product was selling, and selling well, a few people talking about it on a forum won't stop them from selling it.

Thanks for the personal attack by the way. Note I never said anything personal about you at all. Oink.

[frenchie]

Mini 180 is just about the same size as the solo.
I think m0002a has some valid points about the fan : I'm sure it is quiet on low settings but the fact that you can't replace it easily is not a good thing I think.
Also, personnaly, I don't like the door (I use CDs too much).
And just to be picky, I'll say they should replace those fan speed switches with small fan controlers, that would be really nice. Or if they don't, they should figure out a way to mount those switches on the front panel for easier access.
And since it's been done before, why not add a switch to control the intensity of those LEDs (just like a fan speed switch, bright and low ?).

[m0002a]

Thanks for the personal attack by the way. Note I never said anything personal about you at all. Oink.

I categorically deny saying anything personal about you above. But I will say something now: that was cheap shot.

[danimal]

When you have a large fan, you can run it slower, and with less noise.

you are essentially claiming that the 200mm fan is better than the spcr editors choice nexus fan, which i doubt that anyone is going to believe.

that 200mm hole on the top of the case will let more noise out, and removing the fan to plug the hole defeats the intended useage of the case design.

it would be much smarter to simply buy a more appropriate case for quiet pc use, something much smaller, without a giant hole in the top of it.

[danimal]

Thanks for the personal attack by the way. Note I never said anything personal about you at all. Oink.

m0002a does that sort of thing when he's losing an argument, lol.

[danimal]

BTW, even though the case is discontinued at Newegg

you contradict yourself once again.

the p183 hasn't been discontinued, in fact, it was recently upgraded with ssd mounts and a cpu access hole in the motherboard mounting plate.

[m0002a]

BTW, even though the case is discontinued at Newegg

you contradict yourself once again.

the p183 hasn't been discontinued, in fact, it was recently upgraded with ssd mounts and a cpu access hole in the motherboard mounting plate.

Here is what I posted:

BTW, even though the case is discontinued at Newegg, you can still read the exceptionally good customer reviews:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811129041

Check the link, my comments refer to the Mini P180, not P183.

[danimal]

BTW, even though the case is discontinued at Newegg

you contradict yourself once again.

the p183 hasn't been discontinued, in fact, it was recently upgraded with ssd mounts and a cpu access hole in the motherboard mounting plate.

[m0002a]

When you have a large fan, you can run it slower, and with less noise.

you are essentially claiming that the 200mm fan is better than the spcr editors choice nexus fan, which i doubt that anyone is going to believe.

that 200mm hole on the top of the case will let more noise out, and removing the fan to plug the hole defeats the intended useage of the case design.

it would be much smarter to simply buy a more appropriate case for quiet pc use, something much smaller, without a giant hole in the top of it.

All fans on Antec cases are Antec fans, and no Antec fans are SPCR editor choices. That's just a fact of life one has to deal with. Are there any cases that come with SPCR editor choice fans?

The 200 mm fan at low speed is virtually inaudible from my chair with the PC under my desk. Some people have removed the fan, and/or blocked the vent (which is easy to do). If you don't like it, don't buy it. Those who have purchased the Mini P180 seem to be just as satisfied as those who bought a P183, and it appears that a lot more people have purchased the Mini P180.

[danimal]

Those who have purchased the Mini P180 seem to be just as satisfied as those who bought a P183, and it appears that a lot more people have purchased the Mini P180.

the p183 hasn't been discontinued, in fact, it was recently upgraded with ssd mounts and a cpu access hole in the motherboard mounting plate.

[m0002a]

the p183 hasn't been discontinued, in fact, it was recently upgraded with ssd mounts and a cpu access hole in the motherboard mounting plate.

When did I say the P183 was discontinued? I was referring to the Mini P180.

[danimal]

the p183 hasn't been discontinued, in fact, it was recently upgraded with ssd mounts and a cpu access hole in the motherboard mounting plate.

When did I say the P183 was discontinued? I was referring to the Mini P180.

nobody claimed otherwise.

you keep telling us that the mini p180 is a better choice, and that it outsold the p183, but you refuse to comment on why the mini p180 was discontinued, while the p183 was upgraded.

denial is not a river in egypt.

[m0002a]

you keep telling us that the mini p180 is a better choice, and that it outsold the p183, but you refuse to comment on why the mini p180 was discontinued, while the p183 was upgraded.

denial is not a river in egypt.

Not exactly. If someone needs or wants an ATX case, then only the P183 will do. If someone has a mATX mb, then I think the P180 is very good (although certainly not perfect). They are both very similar, and very good cases.

It does appear that the Mini P180 sold better than the P183 on NewEgg. Why Antec does things, and their future plans with either case, are unknown to me.

[danimal]

It does appear that the Mini P180 sold better than the P183 on NewEgg. Why Antec does things, and their future plans with either case, are unknown to me.

that's not an answer.

as you were told earlier in this thread, the mini p180 was discontinued because it obviously didn't sell as well as the p183.

companies don't discontinue successful profitable products; it's dumb to suggest otherwise.

[m0002a]

as you were told earlier in this thread, the mini p180 was discontinued because it obviously didn't sell as well as the p183.

No, it is not obvious that the P183 sold better than the Mini P180. Also, I don't know that the fate of either (or any successor models) has been completely decided.

It is possible that the Antec thinks they can only afford to build one of them, and that potential buyers of the Mini will go for the P183 (but obviously if one has a full size ATX mb the Mini is not an option and buyers will go elsewhere).