Fractal Define R3 USB 3.0 upgrade kit

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Ramses
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Fractal Define R3 USB 3.0 upgrade kit

Post by Ramses » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:39 am

Yes! Looks like Fractal Design is readying a USB 3.0 upgrade kit for the Define R3 ...and new batches of the case will feature USB 3.0 front port(s). One step closer to silent case perfection! :) Very nice of them to do so instead of just telling their customers to go buy the next version.

Sources:
http://www.shay-tech.co.uk/?reviews=fra ... ctic-white (at end of article)
https://forums.ebuyer.com/showthread.ph ... pgrade-Kit!

Flanker
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Re: Fractal Define R3 USB 3.0 upgrade kit

Post by Flanker » Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:14 pm

on the topic of USB 3.0 upgrade kits

looks like silverstone isn't far away either, saw USB 3.0 kits for RV02 on taiwanese shop:
http://prewww.store.pchome.com.tw/prod/ ... =tekkentea

NT$390, around US$13.5

Jim G
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Re: Fractal Define R3 USB 3.0 upgrade kit

Post by Jim G » Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:21 pm

Ah, awesome... Thanks for the heads-up - this'll be something I'll be installing in our Fractal Design cases!

Toge
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Re: Fractal Define R3 USB 3.0 upgrade kit

Post by Toge » Fri Oct 07, 2011 4:09 am

hi all,

first time poster, long time admirer :)

I very recently bought a R3... and take a gander!

http://i.imgur.com/pqQae.jpg [Mod: please shrink large pictures or post a thumbnail in the future.]

mkk
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Re: Fractal Define R3 USB 3.0 upgrade kit

Post by mkk » Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:49 pm

Aha, good to see they skipped the e-sata in favor of another USB. Although this upgrade kit that I have yet to install gives me two USB 3.0 ports. A bit odd to see just one on the case, but on the other hand it's the unfortunate reality that many motherboards still don't apply the internal USB 3.0 header that comes into play.

No other visible changes to the new case revision I assume? :)


Image

Toge
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Re: Fractal Define R3 USB 3.0 upgrade kit

Post by Toge » Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:05 am

Not that I can see, no. Where did you purchase your upgrade kit from BTW? Can't find it at all in the UK.

ickarumba1
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Re: Fractal Define R3 USB 3.0 upgrade kit

Post by ickarumba1 » Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:51 pm

I wonder if they will fit the Define R2. The R2 and R3 are very similar, but there could be some differences in the header.

Mike Sae
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Re: Fractal Define R3 USB 3.0 upgrade kit

Post by Mike Sae » Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:49 pm

I have the R3 usb 3 upgrade kit and am very disappointed in it. I found the screws were too short and I wasn't able to route the cable into the intended hole instead I had to route through the 5 1/4" drive bay.

Toge
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Re: Fractal Define R3 USB 3.0 upgrade kit

Post by Toge » Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:19 am

How much was it? and where did you get it from?

lodestar
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Re: Fractal Define R3 USB 3.0 upgrade kit

Post by lodestar » Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:20 am

At least one of Fractal's UK resellers is advertising it http://www.ebuyer.com/284005-fractal-de ... 3-definer3 but availability in stock still seems to be about a week away. Price seems reasonable for what you get http://www.fractal-design.com/?view=product&prod=62 and it is for the R2 as well as the R3.

mkk
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Re: Fractal Define R3 USB 3.0 upgrade kit

Post by mkk » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:35 am

Finally installed my kit. My experience was pretty much the same as Mike above, the screws appear short although it's more the plastic that doesn't quite match up to the screw holes in the front. I solved it by taking a sturdy knife and shaving off some of the relatively soft plastic that was in the way. I probably took off a bit more than was needed, but it was easy enough to cut into.
Image
The kit works fine when it's in place and that's good enough for me seeing as this is a kind of kit one cannot usually get at all, but as mentioned before the real problem might be if you're using both of the 5,25" drive bays for something. The new cabling is too thick to be routed in the same hole as the original ones, primarily getting in the way of getting the front back on properly. Fortunately for me all I use the bays for is stuffing it with cables and foam.

Kerry Paulson
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Re: Fractal Define R3 USB 3.0 upgrade kit

Post by Kerry Paulson » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:17 pm

I purchased this kit from NCIX for $9.99 CDN but it looks like they have taken it down. I tried to post a review but the product link no longer exists and a search didn't turn up anything.

I had the same issue as Mike and mkk. The screws barely poke through the other side and I couldn't manage to get them to catch. The screw holes are inset into the module so rather than shave the other side, I decided to drill them in a bit more. I took a drill bit that just barely fit into the hole and drilled it in a few mm. The plastic is very soft so don't apply too much force or you'll go through to the other side :)

I have a DVD burner in the top 5 1/4 bay but the USB cable still fits through the top. The new USB 3 module is too wide to route through the old hole. I don't know if there is much they could do about that unless they made it detachable, like the one it replaces.

I conside the purchase worthwhile but would not recommend it to anyone who is uncomfortable hacking (literally) the thing to get it to fit or to anyone who may have issues with cable routing.

koitsu
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Re: Fractal Define R3 USB 3.0 upgrade kit

Post by koitsu » Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:04 am

The last post in this thread was 6 months ago. Questions:

1. Did/had anyone actually taken the time to contact Fractal Design about the design flaw in their USB 3.0 upgrade kit? (Re: cables now have to go through the top 5.25" drive bay rather than through the proper routing hole)

2. Has anyone purchased this kit more recently (say, in the past month or two) to determine if Fractal Design has been reading Internet forums / user discussions and thus changed the design slightly?

As an existing R3 owner I'd like to upgrade my top panel USB ports to 3.0 but this kind of upgrade kit design flaw is pretty shocking for a company who designs their own products entirely. Having to shave off a 1/4 to 1/2" of plastic to work around the lack of longer screws is preposterous and shows nobody tested anything before making the kit. The same goes for the cables being too thick to fit through the proper routing hold to the right ("behind") of the 5.25" bays.

Thoughts?

Haych
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Re: Fractal Define R3 USB 3.0 upgrade kit

Post by Haych » Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:30 am

I bought and installed the upgrade kit about a month ago. The design flaw and cable issue is still there, so either Fractal Design aren't listening/haven't made the necessary changes, or I got a kit from an older batch. Unfortunately, my guess is it's the former.

With the impending release of Thunderbolt for PC's, I'm wondering if it may be better to wait for it to turn up on add-on cards and such forth and opt for that over USB3. If that happens I'll change the front USB headers back to the original USB2, for convenience sake if nothing else.

koitsu
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Re: Fractal Define R3 USB 3.0 upgrade kit

Post by koitsu » Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:45 am

Thanks for the info, Haych. I'm going to reach out to Fractal Design and point them to this thread. The fact they haven't addressed this after ~6 months is unacceptable. I'm absolutely certain changes could be made to the upgrade kit to make it fully compatible with the boxes its intended to be used with (R3 specifically). Folks should remember that if you ever encounter problems with a product, you need to tell the vendor/manufacturer. Simply talking on a forum won't necessarily solve anything for others, other than lots of "it hurts for me too" posts. :-)

I'll let folks know what FD has to say.

koitsu
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Re: Fractal Define R3 USB 3.0 upgrade kit

Post by koitsu » Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:50 pm

I sent the following message to Fractal Design today via their web form (sent to "Product suggestions"). If I get no response, or a get a half-ass response (excuses, etc.) I will attempt other communications with them to get this rectified. Here's what I sent them:
To whom it may concern,

Since the release of your USB 3.0 Upgrade kit for the R3/R2 cases, the general Internet community has found numerous problems with the product. In fact, these problems were noticed almost immediately after the product began shipping. Six months later the problems have not been rectified.

I'd like to bring this matter to your attention since I have the utmost respect for Fractal Design (I personally love my R3 chassis). Please read the following SPCR forum thread for details of the shortcomings of this product, which includes photos of what people are having to do to make the product work correctly:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=62666

The key problems are:

1. The screws used to hold the main connector/bus module in place are too short given the excess amount of rubber/plastic surrounding the module itself. The screws should either be made longer or (my choice) the plastic moulding thinned greatly.

2. The cables for the eSATA and USB ports are thicker than previous models, resulting in the cables not fitting through the proper routing hole "behind" (or next to) one of the 5.25 inch drive bays. The only way to rectify this is to run the cables directly through one of the drive bays, effectively wasting one of the bays. I say this well aware of the fact that shielding is important, but it seems that the product was designed then not actually tested for size/dimensions/thickness pertaining to cable routing.

I say this as professionally and politely as possible, but both of these problems indicate lack of quality assurance and testing.

I, and the rest of the SPCR community, would love to hear what you have to say about this + how you plan on rectifying it.

Also, if you plan on releasing an "upgraded" model of the upgrade kit, please change/modify its serial/product number so that customers have a way to delineate which of the products is actually fixed vs. has the above design flaws. Please do not re-use the same serial/part number; this just adds for confusion.

Thank you.

paapaa
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Re: Fractal Define R3 USB 3.0 upgrade kit

Post by paapaa » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:08 am

Great! Please keep us informed.

Tephras
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Re: Fractal Define R3 USB 3.0 upgrade kit

Post by Tephras » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:28 am

koitsu wrote:I sent the following message to Fractal Design today via their web form (sent to "Product suggestions"). If I get no response, or a get a half-ass response (excuses, etc.) I will attempt other communications with them to get this rectified.
There is a FD representative in the forum, you could always try to send a PM - user profile.

Fractal Design
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Re: Fractal Define R3 USB 3.0 upgrade kit

Post by Fractal Design » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:41 am

Hi all,

We are sorry to hear of the problems you had with the USB3 upgrade kit.

We did in fact have a slight mishap during production where the screws (specifically for Define R3) were 1.5mm to short. They were reworked and replaced but there were a couple of USB3 kits shipped with the wrong screw. If the screw is black, it is the faulty shorter screw. If the screw is silver, it is the correct screw and should be OK.

If you have a black screw and the Define R3 kit we are happy to replace the kit for you. Please contact us or your reseller for replacement.

Regarding the cables, we are aware of the difficulty to route the cables using the front IO routing hole. This is due to the fact we wanted to bring a USB3 upgrade kit that delivered true USB3 SuperSpeed as we thought regular USB3 speed was not enough. Because of this the cables and contacts needed a very thick insulation.

Although it might be somewhat difficult, the cables should still be able to be routed using the front IO cable hole if carefully bent and placed in position, and this have been tested and verified before the launch of the product. If anyone would like further explanation and/or pictures showing how to route the cables, please contact us using our web form on www.fractal-design.com

Best regards,
Fractal Design

koitsu
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Re: Fractal Define R3 USB 3.0 upgrade kit

Post by koitsu » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:49 am

FD's response here on the forum is the same I just got in Email.

Folks here on SPCR who bought the kit in question and had problems should chime in here with feedback, etc.. The screw length issue seems to be addressed (thanks FD!), but the routing hole ordeal needs some further discussion. I urge SPCR folks who have issues with the routing hole size being too small to take photos and provide them here so that the FD folks can assist.

Now, that said:

For FD: you guys should really disclose/announce the screw length mistake on your site and/or in your product documentation. Mistakes happen, we're all human, it's okay. But simply documenting it means that any customer who gets that product can immediately find out what happened and get a replacement + fixed kit. Though we appreciate our PCs being silent, being open about manufacturing mishaps/etc. is good for everyone.

Thanks for being attentive, and thanks for making great products. I love your cases, I just wish you'd do away with the front-facing blue LED for power (the blue ring around the power button is more than enough; the little rectangular cut-out is really unnecessary, and I cover mine up with black electrical tape). The blue LED fad needs to end already; I miss the days of 0.3mm green LEDs used for power, and 0.3mm amber LEDs used for HDD activity. Small, unobtrusive, didn't light up your room, etc...

P.S. -- I myself/personally do not have the USB3 upgrade kit for my R3. I was considering purchasing it, and like with every product I purchase, I thoroughly review the web to find out what problems may exist. I found this thread, was surprised, and wanted to bring it to your attention. Now I can go buy the product, knowing that if I get the revision with black screws I can get replacements. :-)

mkk
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Re: Fractal Define R3 USB 3.0 upgrade kit

Post by mkk » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:59 am

Good to hear about the main problem with the screws havingt been improved. I don't really suffer from the thick cables since I can spare a 5,25" bay, but when I tried fitting the cables the regular way I couldn't get them to fit well enough without pushing against the front bezel. The front wouldn't go on right, but did I not have the easy route to go through the bay I might have tried harder to get the cable in the just right position. I'd have another go at it if I needed to. ;) (if someone does, please snap a few pictures while you're doing it if you can)

koitsu
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Re: Fractal Define R3 USB 3.0 upgrade kit

Post by koitsu » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:29 pm

I mailed NewEgg, since the product on their site shows the older (faulty) version with black screws, just to try and find out what exactly they were selling. Their response indicates more or less that as a customer you're playing Russian roulette with your purchase. This is exactly why changing model numbers/strings is important when changing a product. FD, you may want to get in contact with NewEgg, since they are listed on your site as one of your official product distributors in North America, and ensure they are not selling old/faulty stock.

The incident number pertaining to my inquiry (and their response below) is 120419-002399, in case you need something to refer to.
Thank you for contacting Newegg.

Generally, our stock moves so fast that we have the latest version or revision of everything. Unfortunately, we do not have a way to physically get our hands on our most current stock and tell you what revision we have at the moment. Also, we cannot tag a particular item for a particular order. We do not guarantee revision numbers unless it is specifically noted on the description on the website. We hope this information is helpful.

If you have any further questions or concerns, please visit our FAQs page. If you still require any assistance, please feel free to reply directly to this email.

Thank you,

Jennifer
Newegg Customer Service

Fractal Design
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Re: Fractal Define R3 USB 3.0 upgrade kit

Post by Fractal Design » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:52 pm

koitsu wrote:I mailed NewEgg, since the product on their site shows the older (faulty) version with black screws, just to try and find out what exactly they were selling. Their response indicates more or less that as a customer you're playing Russian roulette with your purchase. This is exactly why changing model numbers/strings is important when changing a product. FD, you may want to get in contact with NewEgg, since they are listed on your site as one of your official product distributors in North America, and ensure they are not selling old/faulty stock.

The incident number pertaining to my inquiry (and their response below) is 120419-002399, in case you need something to refer to.
Thank you for contacting Newegg.

Generally, our stock moves so fast that we have the latest version or revision of everything. Unfortunately, we do not have a way to physically get our hands on our most current stock and tell you what revision we have at the moment. Also, we cannot tag a particular item for a particular order. We do not guarantee revision numbers unless it is specifically noted on the description on the website. We hope this information is helpful.

If you have any further questions or concerns, please visit our FAQs page. If you still require any assistance, please feel free to reply directly to this email.

Thank you,

Jennifer
Newegg Customer Service
Dear koitsu,
We are happy that your are eager to help, although in your message your are referring to the upgrade kit for the Define XL which is a different case.

The problem with the short screws was only affecting the Define R3/R2 Upgrade kits not the Define XL

Define R3/R2 Upgrade kit: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811994039
Define XL: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811994040

All the faulty black screws of the Define R3/R2 Upgrade kit should have been replaced, although some upgrade kits may have been sold before we had time to stop it.

Regarding why we chose to switch black screws to silver screws. This was because we thought it would be much easier for you as a customer to identify which screws you have. Even though a certain serial number or sticker is put on the box this doesn't mean that the screws inside are right, this in a try eliminate the human error.

Best regards,
Fractal Design

koitsu
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Re: Fractal Define R3 USB 3.0 upgrade kit

Post by koitsu » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:03 pm

Fractal Design wrote:
koitsu wrote:I mailed NewEgg, since the product on their site shows the older (faulty) version with black screws, just to try and find out what exactly they were selling. Their response indicates more or less that as a customer you're playing Russian roulette with your purchase. This is exactly why changing model numbers/strings is important when changing a product. FD, you may want to get in contact with NewEgg, since they are listed on your site as one of your official product distributors in North America, and ensure they are not selling old/faulty stock.

The incident number pertaining to my inquiry (and their response below) is 120419-002399, in case you need something to refer to.
Thank you for contacting Newegg.

Generally, our stock moves so fast that we have the latest version or revision of everything. Unfortunately, we do not have a way to physically get our hands on our most current stock and tell you what revision we have at the moment. Also, we cannot tag a particular item for a particular order. We do not guarantee revision numbers unless it is specifically noted on the description on the website. We hope this information is helpful.

If you have any further questions or concerns, please visit our FAQs page. If you still require any assistance, please feel free to reply directly to this email.

Thank you,

Jennifer
Newegg Customer Service
Dear koitsu,
We are happy that your are eager to help, although in your message your are referring to the upgrade kit for the Define XL which is a different case.
...because NewEgg's photos of the R2/R3 USB 3.0 upgrade kit lacked photos of the screws. How convenient of them, no? I had to refer them to *something* that showed screws. However, I made the assumption that the XL kit had the same problem as the R2/R3 kit -- that assumption was obviously wrong, and thank you for correcting me.
Fractal Design wrote:The problem with the short screws was only affecting the Define R3/R2 Upgrade kits not the Define XL

Define R3/R2 Upgrade kit: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811994039
Define XL: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811994040

All the faulty black screws of the Define R3/R2 Upgrade kit should have been replaced, although some upgrade kits may have been sold before we had time to stop it.

Regarding why we chose to switch black screws to silver screws. This was because we thought it would be much easier for you as a customer to identify which screws you have. Even though a certain serial number or sticker is put on the box this doesn't mean that the screws inside are right, this in a try eliminate the human error.

Best regards,
Fractal Design
Understood -- but again, I ask you to keep in mind that colours of screws is not how distributors/vendors differentiate products. They do inventory entirely based on product numbers/strings or SKUs. Most (~90%) vendors do not open up a product they stock and take pictures of the insides. NewEgg is one of the few which does, and in this case, the R2/R3 upgrade kit lacks photos of the screws, thus consumers have no idea which "version" of the R2/R3 kit they're getting.

This is also why I'm downright afraid to buy the kit from NewEgg. I can't verify what's in the package, and my note to them asked for such verification yet they simply avoided it. As the consumer, I am now stuck between the manufacturer (you) and the vendor/reseller, unable to make a purchasing choice because of (IMO, bad) decisions made by both FD as well as the vendor/reseller. This is why I tried to bring the matter to NewEgg's attention -- so they could update their photos, or add a description stating that they're selling the "fixed/upgraded kit with proper (silver) screws". Instead, what I got back from them is what what you see above. There really isn't much a consumer can do to rectify this situation; it usually requires the manufacturer contact the reseller and say "Hey, look, update your site with the fact that you carry the most recent version of the product". Understand where I'm coming from here?

Fractal Design
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Re: Fractal Define R3 USB 3.0 upgrade kit

Post by Fractal Design » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:15 pm

Dear koitsu,

Because the kits where produced and awaiting distribution here in Sweden when we found out the problem we recalled everything that was shipped out to local resellers and reworked everything manually.

This was done before we shipped anything to Newegg and we still have not heard of any complaints of faulty screws from any other places. There is still a tiny chance that we made an error when we manually changed the kits, but a couple of hundred units sold later we have not heard any more reports other than the first initial mistake localized to Sweden.

If you still want to purchase an upgrade kit, rest assured that if it is a kit with faulty screws, we will do our best to help you out. In this particular case by sending out a new correct kit of screws. We do not think it would be necessary though.

We will also inform our marketing department to update our marketing kit with new pictures whenever possible.

Best regards,
Fractal Design

koitsu
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Re: Fractal Define R3 USB 3.0 upgrade kit

Post by koitsu » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:59 pm

Fractal Design wrote:Because the kits where produced and awaiting distribution here in Sweden when we found out the problem we recalled everything that was shipped out to local resellers and reworked everything manually.

This was done before we shipped anything to Newegg and we still have not heard of any complaints of faulty screws from any other places.
The posts here on the forum refute your statements. People in just this thread which have gotten the black (bad) screws are:

* Mike Sae -- profile says he's in Canada
* mkk -- Sweden
* Kerry Paulson -- almost certainly Canadian given that he got it from NCIX
* Haych -- Great Britain

So I would say the issue was not limited to just Sweden, or even limited to Europe in general. Some obviously made it to Canada (North America), and thus I am very inclined to say some made it to the United States.

Sincerely: I'm not trying to argue or beat a dead horse here, I'm just simply saying that when people buy a product that doesn't work correctly for them, in my experiences as a senior SA and a very active consumer + reviewer of products, they simply throw them out or return them and never tell the manufacturer. The posts on the SCPR forum are from people who took the time to post about their problems, while most consumers don't bother. It's wrong to assume just because nobody complains to a vendor that there isn't a problem. We call that "seeing the world through rose-tinted glasses" or "to bury one's head in the sand".

I guess what I'll do is purchase the R2/R3 USB 3.0 upgrade kit from NewEgg and see what I get. If I get a version with black screws, we'll work something out (and in that situation you should also be contacting NewEgg). If I get a version with silver screws (the correct ones), then awesome. I'll post the results of my purchase here regardless, and provide photos either way.

Sorry for making this into such a big deal, it's just that I am very, very tired of vendors (not just you guys at FD! So don't take it personally) changing their products around without changing the SKU/model number of the product. This is becoming a very awful fad, and has bitten very large companies on the ass many times over -- Broadcom ICs are this way, Corsair RAM is this way, Supermicro IPMI cards are this way, etc.. Motherboards are also susceptible to this problem, but certain companies like Gigabyte often change the model number to reflect what version of the product it is. This helps consumers *a lot*. So keep that in mind. Eventually this behaviour/fad is going to result in a class-action lawsuit down the road, where some major product vendor pulls this and it'll affect hundreds of thousands of customers and bite them in the ass. I'd rather not see the computing/tech world get to that point if I can in any way help ensure it doesn't.

koitsu
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Re: Fractal Define R3 USB 3.0 upgrade kit

Post by koitsu » Wed May 09, 2012 3:55 pm

Wanted to follow up on this.

My USB 3.0 upgrade kit arrived today from NewEgg. This is NewEgg's fault, not that of FD, but the upgrade kit box was completely smashed in, the cables were hanging out from the end, and the screws were missing. I eventually found the screw bag at the bottom of the packing envelope NewEgg used for shipping.

The screws were indeed silver and quite long. So, looks like we're good there. Happy happy!

I'll work on doing the upgrade sometime next week (way too busy this week with work and 3 hard disk restorations that I'm doing for family, friends, and some folks on DSLR/BBR), and take pictures/videos/etc. as I do the upgrade to document complexities/issues I run into. We'll see if my experience mimics that of others on this forum, re: cables too thick to route through the proper routing holes.

koitsu
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Re: Fractal Define R3 USB 3.0 upgrade kit

Post by koitsu » Mon May 21, 2012 4:35 pm

I finally got around to doing this today, since I picked up a USB 3.0 PCIe card. I ran into no issues routing the fake eSATA and fat USB 3.0 cables via the front panel and over the top of the top 5.25" drive bay. It did take a little patience and adjusting/fidgeting, but I didn't have to run the cables through the bay. I even did it with a DVD drive installed in the top 5.25" bay.

The only problem I had was getting the USB and eSATA ports to be flush with the top of the case. They're not as flush as the previous ports, but I'll manage.

I also managed to completely break the Reset cable that went from the front panel to my mainboard; looks like whoever put together my case applied the hot glue to the wrong section/part of the Reset cable. No easy way to fix it either, not without some knife work + soldering. Also looks like the copper used for the Reset cable was probably something like 30 gauge; very thin + fragile and breaks easily, especially at solder points. Oh well, so be it.

uiuc_josh
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Re: Fractal Define R3 USB 3.0 upgrade kit

Post by uiuc_josh » Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:46 pm

I ordered this kit from newegg and it came without the screws in it. Great.
So I emailed them and they said they didn't have the screws in the warehouse to send me. Double great. At least they offered me a $5 credit, so that's something, but I don't know what kind of screws I need. Did anyone measure them? width, pitch, length, type, etc? Are they machine screws? Hope someone (especially Fractal) can help me with the specs I need to go get them at the hardware store. Thanks,

Josh

koitsu
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Re: Fractal Define R3 USB 3.0 upgrade kit

Post by koitsu » Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:57 am

Chances are Fractal will be able to mail you the screws directly.

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