Fat_Bunny, what's your secret?

[haysdb]

Take a look at Fat_Bunny's page at EOC and check out the Daily Production History chart. How does one maintain such consistancy? Looks like a buttload of 70 point Tinkers to me, four smaller wu, and a 160 point Gromacs thrown in for good measure.

Fat_Bunny, if you have a reasonably fast cpu, which it looks like you do, try adding -advmethods to the shortcut which launches Folding@Home on your PC, and see if you start picking up more Gromacs. If you have a fast cpu with SSE, it's being wasted doing Tinkers.

David

[haysdb]

SamWilliams looks like another one getting a steady diet of 71 pointers.

[Fat Bunny]

David,

try adding -advmethods to the shortcut

I Haven't gotten into folding so much so I am using the screen saver version, don't think I can use switches on that?

Part of the consistency might be having the PC running 24/7, this may change as the summer comes along as my PSU is too much of a heat factory for summer Toronto weather.

Most of the WU I have been getting are the 500 unit variety and until recently I was using a XP 2100 Palomino. Have now switched to a Mobile XP 2500 Barton but am being held back by my POS motherboard defaulting to a FSB speed of 100 MHz for that chip. Have bugged ASUS about this earlier this week but have yet to get a response.

If you have a fast cpu with SSE

I assumed that SSE was automatically activated for a later model XP, is this correct?

John

[zuperdee]

Most of the WU I have been getting are the 500 unit variety and until recently I was using a XP 2100 Palomino. Have now switched to a Mobile XP 2500 Barton but am being held back by my POS motherboard defaulting to a FSB speed of 100 MHz for that chip. Have bugged ASUS about this earlier this week but have yet to get a response.

What ASUS motherboard are you using, out of curiosity?

I assumed that SSE was automatically activated for a later model XP, is this correct?

No, that is not correct--at least, I don't think so, because here on my XP 2400+ Thoroughbred system, I have to use -forceSSE. Otherwise, it defaults to 3DNow!.

[unregistered]

Let us know what model #board you have and I sure someone can help. I had that problem to with my A7N8X but it was something that I had set up wrong. I am still used to jumper pins for clock speed settings .

As far as advmethods here is how I set mine up.

Left click start, move cursor to Programs then Startup, right click the F@H extention, left click Properties. At this point there are 2 dialog boxes. In the "target" box you want:

"C:\Program Files\Folding@Home\winFAH.exe" -advmethods -forcesse

Include the " marks
There is a space in front of the -
The C:\ may be different than that if you have SATA or partitons etc.
You can copy and paste the above entry or just add the the tags

Also it is important that you do this in the "Startup" of programs, F@H has it's own entry in the programs files but the tag needs to be placed in the startup listing.

there are other tags that some people use but I don't know if that would effect performance.

[Fat Bunny]

What ASUS motherboard are you using, out of curiosity?

Zuperdee, unregistered, the ASUS A7V8X, something they no longer sell as it uses the unpopular KT400 chipset.

"C:\Program Files\Folding@Home\winFAH.exe" -advmethods -forcesse

unregistered this won't work for me as I use the FAH screensaver which is not accessed through the start menu. I guess I will poke around the FAH site until I find out how to set forceSSE in the config file.

[zuperdee]

Zuperdee, unregistered, the ASUS A7V8X, something they no longer sell as it uses the unpopular KT400 chipset.

Ah. Well, yes the board was unpopular--and I guess I can see why, since the KT400 never did support 400 MHz FSB, despite its name. IIRC, not even the revised 400A ever actually achieved support for 400 MHz FSB. It wasn't until the KT600 that 400 MHz FSB support was finally added.

Personally, I am using a Soyo SY-KT600 Dragon Plus motherboard here. The KT600 really isn't a bad chipset. Maybe not quite as fast as an nForce2, but the difference isn't by any means what I'd call huge. It is interesting to see how VIA has slowly kept plugging away at their line--they haven't given up by any means. In fact, it looks like they've now made one final attempt to compete with the nForce2 Ultra 400 by releasing the KT880, which now supports dual-channel DDR. Unfortunately, the reviews seem to say that it is still marginally slower than the nForce2, and that the dual-channel DDR thing is a bit overrated, since there's no way the Athlon CPUs can ever use that kind of bandwidth. Main reason I went for the KT600 is that the speed difference seemed so minimal, and the VIA 8237 is by all counts truly an EXCELLENT southbridge.

Anyway, I'm not sure why your KT400 motherboard isn't supporting the 166 MHz FSB of your Barton 2500+. It ought to be able to do that, at the very least. Are there jumpers on your motherboard that need to be reset, perhaps?

[Fat Bunny]

zuperdee,

The main drawback I find with the KT400 isn't so much the lack of support for dual channel or 400 MHZ FSB, it's the lack of a PCI lock. I don't know if the later VIA chipsets have a PCI lock but I am considering switching to a Abit NF7-S mainly for this reason.

Anyway, I'm not sure why your KT400 motherboard isn't supporting the 166 MHz FSB of your Barton 2500+. It ought to be able to do that, at the very least. Are there jumpers on your motherboard that need to be reset, perhaps?

The board is jumper free, I have a mobile Barton and they default to 133 MHz FSB AFAIK but are completely unlocked. I suspect the problem is that the BIOS has not been updated to identify the relatively new mobile Barton, the last BIOS update was August 2003. This wouldn't really be a problem if the board had a PCI lock.

John

[Beyonder]

I wish someone had told me this....I've had two fast pentiums folding, and they always take a ridiculous amount of time on tinkers.



David, just a suggestion:
On the first sticky on the BB, maybe include a quick link on how to optimize F@H for what CPU one has? Even if it meant a 5% increase on average for SPCR, that five percent would put us past the mac guys right now....

[unregistered]

Ureaka!!!! Beyonder....... I wasted a lot of CPU cycles on tinkers in my early folding days. hehe about 5-6 months ago.......... back "then" tinkers were dreaded obligations that needed to be done, "somebody had to do them" NOW (6 months later) Tinkers are becomming extinct, they were from the age of PII era. If you have a PII or old T-bird you can do no better for the folding effort than to fold tinkers. If you have a Palomino or a PIII(I am not sure when intel implemented SSE).

The only compalint tah I can make about this Forum is that there is a lack of tweaking/Faq type "sticky"

AND yes I am as guilty as everyone else because I haven't done any thing about it, except being a crybaby now.

gotta go PiZZZZa's here!!!!!

[zuperdee]

The main drawback I find with the KT400 isn't so much the lack of support for dual channel or 400 MHZ FSB, it's the lack of a PCI lock. I don't know if the later VIA chipsets have a PCI lock but I am considering switching to a Abit NF7-S mainly for this reason.

I can tell you from firsthand experience that the KT600 does not have a PCI lock, either. I don't understand why anyone would want one though--as I understand it, it is only useful for overclocking, and I hate overclocking myself. I am more concerned about keeping my systems cool, quiet, and reliable. Besides, I've determined that the vast majority of overclockers don't even seem to realize that they end up spending more money on the accessories just to cool their super-hot rigs than they would if they just went with a higher rated chip in the first place. I don't know what on earth they're thinking...

The board is jumper free, I have a mobile Barton and they default to 133 MHz FSB AFAIK but are completely unlocked. I suspect the problem is that the BIOS has not been updated to identify the relatively new mobile Barton, the last BIOS update was August 2003. This wouldn't really be a problem if the board had a PCI lock.

Ah, that's your problem, then!!!! Remember that because the mobile Bartons are unlocked, they require FSB Auto-detect in the BIOS to work properly. Chances are that your motherboard does not support that, if it is defaulting to an FSB of 100 MHz. Also, the mobile Barton requires 1.45v Core/IO, instead of the typical 1.65v of desktop Bartons. If you want cooler, quieter operation from it, make sure you have an undervoltable motherboard.

[Beyonder]

you just passed me, unregistered.


Let's see if we can even up the odds a bit and have a little race.

[unregistered]

Fat Bunny

I can't answer you question about screensaver tags but I can ask

http://forum.folding-community.org/view ... 8613#58613


Beyonder

You never looked better than you do now, in my rear view mirror. I will do what I can to keep up your appearance!!!!!!!!! You might look a little better IF you can turn red on my overtake/threats list.

unregistered wants U and everybody else on his threats list.................

Get there now while you have a chance

[AZBrandon]

The only compalint tah I can make about this Forum is that there is a lack of tweaking/Faq type "sticky"

Agreed - it took me quite a lot of searching to find out what this "FAH LogStats" program was that everyone was talking about and then finally find out where to download it from. I still haven't been able to find whatever the other one is (Electron Analyzer or somethign?) and it wasn't until this thread that I realized I was putting the -advmethods flag inside the double quotes, as opposed to outside the double quotes, hence I couldn't get it to work before.

Probably the basic guide should include:

1) Link to the Stanford page where to download the client
2) Instructions on how to set it up (set your name and team # right)
3) Tweak the install by directing exactly how to add -forcesse to those whom it applies and -advmethods to the shortcut properly
4) Link to the FAH LogStats website
5) Link to whatever the other analyzer website is
6) Examples of what PPD/PPW you can expect on difference processors, at least as a rough estimate. We don't want someone with a single 2 Ghz system seeing people's sig saying they do 7000ppw thinking their single system is supposed to be able to do that.
7) Links to any other websites for stats, such as the extremeoverclocking site.
How to put your Folding image stats in your sig, like many of us do

And... that's probably about it. I know some of the above seem kind of obvious, but it would help to have it all in one place.

[unregistered]

unregistered wrote:

The only compalint tah I can make about this Forum is that there is a lack of tweaking/Faq type "sticky"

Ok, so I tah had one finger tied behind my back

I folded for well over a month without getting the tags right.
I put the tags in the wrong place, without the right space, finally got it right. Probrably could have picked up an extra 1000+ points. I thought that my processor/MB didn't include SSE capabilities.

I even thought that tinkers were a "resposibility". I scored more PPD on tinkers than gromacs and couldn't figure out why everybody was complaining about tinkers.

Things change alot. Not too long ago tinkers were just somthing that everybody needed to do their share of(before -advmethods). They were written/prepared back before most processors has sse capabilities. (kind of like they will eventually write a 64bit client) Now they are getting low on tinkers and want the older processors that they were written for to handle them.

I would be willing to bet that there are a lot of folders out there and on our team that are not using the tags.

Basically I was getting 200-260 ppw without SSE and now I guess it is more like 400-450(on that xp2200 tbread).

I did't have time back then to figure it out, still haven't figured out or installed Electorn microscope, or f@h log stats. The "no nonsense" console version is more than I want to deal with too. Maybe by the time I hit 100K maybe not.

[haysdb]

John (Fat Bunny),

I have never used the screensaver version. Why? Even when you are actively using your PC, you typically are using only a small fraction of the cpu time available. Do this: Do the "three fingered solute" (Ctrl-Atl-Delete) to bring up the Task Manager and click the 'Performance' tab and just leave it visible while you work, so you can see just how little cpu time you are using. Click on the 'Processes' tab and find 'System Idle Process' and note the amount of time it has accumulated. These are "wasted" cpu cycles, simply "absorbed" by the Idle Process. The screensaver isn't able to take advantage of this idle cpu time. For this reason, I recommend you try either the GUI or CLI (Command Line) version of Folding@Home and just set your screen saver to be a blank display. That's the very best screensaver there is! After you get comfortable with that, and get tired of seeing the F@H icon in your task bar, you can take the next step and install F@H as a 'service'. But I'm getting ahead of myself.

SSE is NOT used by default on ANY AMD cpu. There WAS a problem with enabling SSE on SOME AMD processors (it caused occasional lockups), so to be safe, they just defaulted to 3DNow for all AMD processors. That problem has now been fixed, and SSE is now safe to use on AMD processors, but the only way to enable it is with the -forcesse command line switch.

SSE will give you ~2X the number of points as 3DNow, but ONLY on Gromacs work units, not on Tinkers. Tinker does not use SSE. So how do you get Gromacs? -advmethods. You will get some anyway, but with advmethods, you will get mostly Gromacs.

This is a bit confusing, so just hit me with doesn't make sense and I will take another crack at it.

David

[Fat Bunny]

After digging about on the FAH I decided to switch to the graphical client yesterday and it's now running with the -advmethods and -forceSSE flags. The reason for using the screen saver was that when gaming with IL2FB (uses 100% CPU) even with 512 RAM, memory usage, with plenty of background processes, tends to force disk paging. All it means is I now have one more process to disable.

[1911user]

Another flag some find useful is -verbosity 9 (there is a space between verbosity and the 9)
This adds alot of detail to the log file about what the program is doing especially ending and starting work units. Verbosity can be 1-9 with 9 being the most detailed. Verbosity 3 is the default.

[haysdb]

The threads are not "sticky" yet, but I have taken an initial whack at a "beginners guide to folding" and a page containing useful links, such as for Electron Microscope III and FAH LogStats, two excellent monitoring utilities.

I am still struggling with how to properly introduce the flags, keeping it simple enough for everyone to understand while not being condescending to those who have been around PC's all their lives.

Excuse me for "barging it," but this was the thread that got me off my butt to write the two posts, so I thought I'd stop by and let you know that "I heard you."

David