Choices for a modern farm.

aristide1 · Post by **aristide1** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:16 am

So what matters most/least in a folding farm?

1. While high counts of low priced mobo's and CPUs have dominated farms in the past, we are now in the midst of one of those special times, like the days of the Celeron 300A, where huge O/C capabilites are available. Enter a E6300 or E6400 Conroe? Note the "?"

2. A higher powered PS to feed more than one mobo and to take advantage of higher efficiency? Can you spell Seasonic? Other?

3. Are 2 sticks of RAM required for the highest DTR? Is it really an issue?

4. An OS I can afford on multiple mobo's? Or does booting from the server resolve that? I currently own W2K Pro.

5. Would booting and running from individual thumb drives be cheaper/more efficient? Anyway to make individual 1GB thumb drives useful to anything besides Vista?

6. Can I install the OS on 1 thumb drive and use just the one to reboot any mobo when required, moving it from 1 slot on 1 mobo to another on another mobo?

7. The best bang for the buck video if folding will take advantage of the GPU?

lm · Post by lm » Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:27 pm

You can have all but 1 machines totally diskless, and have one file server.

The machines netboot (support for which needs to be in the nic) by first doing DHCP query, then download their kernel, then boot kernel and mount partitions from the network.

This is doable with linux. I've done it and it works. Absolutely no mass-storage devices on the client whatsoever.

Definitely the cheapest option, and convenient too, once setup.

Oh and forgot to mention, isn't folding on some modern GPUs ridiculously much faster nowadays? If your not using the gpu for folding, then try to get a mobo that can boot without any gpu. You don't need any for the clients.

aristide1 · Post by **aristide1** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:38 pm

I haven't seen clear info about which GPUs assist and which will not.

"The machines netboot (support for which needs to be in the nic) by first doing DHCP query, then download their kernel, then boot kernel and mount partitions from the network. "

Is this normal for a mobo with a builtin net card?

floffe · Post by **floffe** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:29 am

The newest GPU client supports X1600, X1800 and X1900 cores, but apparently the X1900's are much faster than the others. The GPU client needs windows though, and I'm not sure about netbooting there.

nici · Post by **nici** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:26 am

If i remember correctly its not possible to fold on a GPU and CPU at the same time with one machine. A 1900 should be a hell of a lot faster than any normal CPU though.

aristide1 · Post by **aristide1** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:50 pm

nici wrote:If i remember correctly its not possible to fold on a GPU and CPU at the same time with one machine. A 1900 should be a hell of a lot faster than any normal CPU though.

If thats the case then a minimal processor ($20) and a cheap mobo that has 1 PCIe x16 slots would be the solution?

floffe · Post by **floffe** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:49 pm

I'm pretty sure that's not the case, you just have to run an additional client for the GPU core AFAIK (just like you need 2 clients for a dual-core CPU).

lm · Post by lm » Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:05 am

Unfortunately it's not possible to go true diskless with windows, except when running something like windows on vmware on a diskless linux, which wouldn't be the perfect choise here.

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:47 am

Hello,

You could use a 16GB flash drive to boot from, right?

Or, an 8GB model would work for Windows, too, I think.

aristide1 · Post by **aristide1** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:38 pm

NeilBlanchard wrote:Hello,

You could use a 16GB flash drive to boot from, right? Or, an 8GB model would work for Windows, too, I think.

Wouldn't a 16GB USB cost more than a minimal HD?

Well this is what I was thinking. First off how big is Win XP installed? $35 would buy a 2GB thumb drive, $15 buys a 1GB drive, but if any space were left it would not be much. This would be relatively cheap and quiet. The other reason to use Windows is the possibility of the GPU becoming a place to fold, and I am still waiting to see where that proceeds.

The other aspect is once Windows is installed on a USB thumb drive then a clone system can be purchased and the info on the thumb drive could be xcopied to another thumb drive, etc, etc.

What's your setup look like Neil?

I recall some neat farms a ways back. A bunch of mobos all supported together with long threaded steel rods, no case to speak of.

Some talk that one PS would power more than one board (how does turning on and off get handled?) This would seem neccessary for an efficient farm, as really small power supplies appear to be both junk and inefficent in general.

The really cool thing would be to run all the PS from a 12V car battery that is recharged by the sun, or perhaps overnight if you have one of those peak/offpeak electrical plans. But a single 120W load needs 10 amps continuous. Hmmmm, maybe not.

Lord_Anubis · Post by **Lord_Anubis** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:27 pm

If your going to go the Conroe route you should checkout the SMP client, with the current wu's you're looking at an easy 1500-2000 ppd versus 700-800 ppd with the GPU client, which needs a core to feed the GPU. Of course if you were to run 2 GPU's the SMP client should still put out more points & be more efficient/cheaper.

lm · Post by lm » Sat Dec 16, 2006 2:35 pm

Btw when one's thinking about building stuff just for folding, might he be better off just donating the money to the scientists instead?

pyogenes · Post by **pyogenes** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 3:06 pm

nici wrote:If i remember correctly its not possible to fold on a GPU and CPU at the same time with one machine. A 1900 should be a hell of a lot faster than any normal CPU though.

I've run F@H on both cores of my E6600 and my X1950XTX at the same time. One caveat - you need to limit the usage of one of the normal CPU instances to around 80% (maybe lower i was OCed to 3.3GHz) because the GPU version stil needs quite a few CPU cycles to work.

Also, ATI's drivers will leave the GPU running in 2D mode while you're using F@H. If you really want to fold at maximum speeds, you'll need to use a 3rd party tool like ATI Tray Tools to overclock the 2D setting to at least the 3D speeds (if not faster!)

CoolGav · Post by **CoolGav** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:50 am

aristide1 wrote:Some talk that one PS would power more than one board (how does turning on and off get handled?) This would seem neccessary for an efficient farm, as really small power supplies appear to be both junk and inefficent in general.

The really cool thing would be to run all the PS from a 12V car battery that is recharged by the sun, or perhaps overnight if you have one of those peak/offpeak electrical plans. But a single 120W load needs 10 amps continuous. Hmmmm, maybe not.

Could each board use a PicoPSU that could be conected to a 12V system? Perhaps C2D boards would work on that...

Buddabing · Post by **Buddabing** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:43 am

That would be interesting. In fact, you could have more than one PicoPSU with the 12V inputs of the PicoPSUs modded to attach to the 12V output of a single normal high-capacity PSU. From the pictures of the PicoPSU, that wouldn't be too hard to do. All you'd have to do is make sure that the total number of amps pulled by the PicoPSUs on the 12V line doesn't exceed the capacity of the large PSU.

eplayer87 · Post by **eplayer87** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:08 am

lm wrote:Unfortunately it's not possible to go true diskless with windows, except when running something like windows on vmware on a diskless linux, which wouldn't be the perfect choise here.

You can do diskless with windows. Here is a tutorial. It's pretty easy, a bunch of people over at the overclockers.com forums have got it up and running!

aristide1 · Post by **aristide1** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:06 am

Buddabing wrote:That would be interesting. In fact, you could have more than one PicoPSU with the 12V inputs of the PicoPSUs modded to attach to the 12V output of a single normal high-capacity PSU. From the pictures of the PicoPSU, that wouldn't be too hard to do. All you'd have to do is make sure that the total number of amps pulled by the PicoPSUs on the 12V line doesn't exceed the capacity of the large PSU.

Hopefully a simpler procedure would be what others have done, they've put a splitter on the plug that goes to the motherboard. Of course we're talking low wattage stuff but still. Such a splitter seems to be hard to find.

In fact, you could have more than one PicoPSU with the 12V inputs of the PicoPSUs modded to attach to the 12V output of a single normal high-capacity PSU.

Looking at Pico for a while I come to the conclusion that unless one was to have a permanent 12V supply for other uses (solar) then Pico is not priced all that well. For $45, about the price of the cheapest pico thats always out of stock, one can get an FSP 300 PFC that's 80+% efficient.

Buddabing · Post by **Buddabing** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:53 pm

The advantage of the Pico approach to the multi-PSU approach would be less noise, less space used, and (possibly) better power efficiency. (Efficiency is usually better at higher loads than at low loads)

I did a back-of-the-envelope calculation. A Seasonic S12-600 can supply 36 amps on the +12V rails, and the Pico draws about 7 amps "max continuous". So, in theory, you could run five blades on one S12-600.

IIRC the guy who did the splitter approach was afraid to split power more than three ways because he was afraid the wires would melt. This was a couple of years ago, though, and power usage of PCs has changed a lot in the last 2-3 years.

I wish I had a grand to do a proof of concept.

aristide1 · Post by **aristide1** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:05 pm

I did a back-of-the-envelope calculation. A Seasonic S12-600 can supply 36 amps on the +12V rails, and the Pico draws about 7 amps "max continuous". So, in theory, you could run five blades on one S12-600.

With 18 amp rails more likely you would run 2 on each rail and leave some room leftover.

You could also drop down to the 550HT - WHOA - can this be right? FOUR 12 Volt rails supplying 18 amps each? Eight mobo's on 1 PS at 88% efficiency?

What is the technical term for hubbah hubbah?

But you also need how much $$$$ for all those PICOs? 8 of them.

Buddabing · Post by **Buddabing** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:25 pm

aristide1 wrote:
You could also drop down to the 550HT - WHOA - can this be right? FOUR 12 Volt rails supplying 18 amps each? Eight mobo's on 1 PS at 88% efficiency?

What is the technical term for hubbah hubbah?

That would be "DAAAAYYYYYYIIIIIMMMMM!

But it looks like the total of the 4 rails is still limited to a total of 41 amps for the 550HT and 52 amps for the 650HT. So you have "only" 6-7 mobos.

But you also need how much $$$$ for all those PICOs? 8 of them.

But it would be quiet! That counts for a lot.

aristide1 · Post by **aristide1** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:58 pm

But it looks like the total of the 4 rails is still limited to a total of 41 amps for the 550HT and 52 amps for the 650HT. So you have "only" 6-7 mobos.

I'm crushed.

lm · Post by lm » Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:36 am

eplayer87 wrote:
lm wrote:Unfortunately it's not possible to go true diskless with windows, except when running something like windows on vmware on a diskless linux, which wouldn't be the perfect choise here.
You can do diskless with windows. Here is a tutorial. It's pretty easy, a bunch of people over at the overclockers.com forums have got it up and running!

Well, on my post that you are quoting, I mentioned that it's possible to run some kind of windows emulation on a diskless linux, but windows itself doesn't go truely diskless.

And this seems to be the method they are indeed using in that tutorial. Boot a diskless linux and run a windows program on it with some emulation layer.