Hi,
I was given a Dell Dimension 8200 when its hard drive crapped out. I've since replaced it with and older (and unfortunately noisier) hard drive. I would very much like to use the system as a music/video Windows box, but the computer sounds like it is gas powered. The fan is loud and the power supply is even louder (and its vibrations are both audible and irregular).
There are two catches to the whole plan, it has to be in my bedroom (not particularly large) and because I'm a student, this all has to be done on a tight budget.
So, what I would like to do is replace the fan and power supply - I can live with the hard drive.
System:
Dell 8200 (2.4 GHz P4)
1 GB RDRAM
Radeon 9600 XT (has a fan, but I've never heard it)
Creative Live! sound card (soon to be an Xtreme Music card)
ATI TV Wonder
HDD is a Western Digital 40 GB IDE hard drive from 2001 (currently)
IDE DVD RW and CD RW drives
250W PSU (says HP-P250 7F3C Rev H03 on it)
Normally I'm pretty technologically informed/able, but I really know nothing about power supplies and fans.
I've found a store that sells Nexus fans in my area, so if they are compatible, I'll swap out the main fan.
The power supply looks like it will be much more of a pain. All that I have read about the outputs of power supplies has only served to confuse me more. Is a new power supply today going to be compatible with a 5 year old computer? If not what should I be looking for?
Some help would be greatly appreciated. Also, any advice on where to buy, from residents of Canada would be great (especially in the Ottawa area).
Thanks,
Blue_Sky
Dell Dimension 8200 in Need of Silencing
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
Dell computers tend to have proprietary power supplies that aren't compatible with standard ones. Your best option may be to modify the existing power supply by undervolting the fan (this is the cheapest option, at least). Basically, you take the fan and disconnect it from its current 12v electrical power supply (this might involve simply unplugging it, or it might involve snipping the wires straight from a PSU board). Probably the fan is a simply 2 wire fan--but if it's a 3 wire fan you might need to take extra care. The third wire will be an rpm sensor, and it's possible the PSU will auto-shutdown if it doesn't detect rpms.
After disconnecting the fan from its current supply, you'll want to connect it up to a 5v power source. This is most easily done OUTSIDE the PSU case. My favored technique is to use a couple short pieces of stripped solid core wire to directly couple the fan to the red/black 5v output of a floppy power connector.
After disconnecting the fan from its current supply, you'll want to connect it up to a 5v power source. This is most easily done OUTSIDE the PSU case. My favored technique is to use a couple short pieces of stripped solid core wire to directly couple the fan to the red/black 5v output of a floppy power connector.
Overheating Risk?
Am I running the risk of the computer overheating if I undervolt the PSU fan? I'm hoping to run this thing close to 24/7.
I'll have a look at all of the connections this evening.
I know there is a floppy drive, so I'll give that method a shot.
I'll have a look at all of the connections this evening.
I know there is a floppy drive, so I'll give that method a shot.
Isaac said it all as far as PSU's are concerned.
But for the actual fans. Nexus fans are good, having them available at a local shop is really an advantage (saves you lots of shipment fees, and of course you don't have to wait) Before you start going out and spending lots of money on Nexus fans, have a look at the following articles.
FAQ for Newbies -- Identifying the noise sources.
Quieting a PC, and SPCR... in a nutshell
Basically, be sure to find out exactly what is making noise in the PC, before doing anything about it. For example, are you really sure you don't hear the 9600XT? And even if you don't hear the actual 9600XT fan, are you sure that it's not creating a lot of heat that in turn gives other components in the PC a hard time staying cool, making them noisy (my old 9800XT was particularly notorious for this).
But for the actual fans. Nexus fans are good, having them available at a local shop is really an advantage (saves you lots of shipment fees, and of course you don't have to wait) Before you start going out and spending lots of money on Nexus fans, have a look at the following articles.
FAQ for Newbies -- Identifying the noise sources.
Quieting a PC, and SPCR... in a nutshell
Basically, be sure to find out exactly what is making noise in the PC, before doing anything about it. For example, are you really sure you don't hear the 9600XT? And even if you don't hear the actual 9600XT fan, are you sure that it's not creating a lot of heat that in turn gives other components in the PC a hard time staying cool, making them noisy (my old 9800XT was particularly notorious for this).
This can be a concern. Basically, feel the air coming out of the PSU. If it just feels just a bit warm, then it's okay. If it feels very warm or hot, then you may be compromising the lifespan of the PSU. In that case, you'll want to install an extra case fan if you can--even if that means some sort of ugly jury rigging.Blue_Sky wrote:Am I running the risk of the computer overheating if I undervolt the PSU fan? I'm hoping to run this thing close to 24/7.
A single 80mm fan just isn't going to be quiet at the same time as providing a lot of airflow. Two undervolted 80mm fans will get you a lot more performance with less noise than a single 80mm fan.
Most people here use nothing but 120mm fans, which can provide a lot of airflow without making much noise at all. These require more space, obviously.
Removing the ATX backplane and the PCI slot backplanes can also help ventilation. Typically, doing this will help keep the PSU cool at the expense of reducing airflow to the hard drive(s). Hard drive cooling typically relies upon negative pressure within the case sucking air into the front intake. Opening up the backplanes provides extra openings for air to get sucked in--meaning less air gets sucked in the front intake.
Oh--I forgot to mention it before: Some fans don't even spin up when provided only 5v. Don't be too disappointed if your PSU fan is one of them.
@Sylph-DS
Don't worry; I've been lurking around these forums for a while now (only decide to sign up today though).
I believe that I've done a through examination of my computer - even compared it with a slightly older Dell ( 1.4 GHz P4) that is about to get recycled (with a similar PSU and case fan).
The graphics card may be producing a lot of noise, but even when this computer is used for gaming, the hard drive, DVD drive (sounds like a truck driving by when it spins a DVD up), PSU and fan are all louder. I don't intend on using this computer for anything graphics intense, so I'm not too worried about that. I don't really want to have to pay for a really outdated graphics card that will create a marginally smaller amount of heat.
@IsaacKuo
Thanks. I wouldn't be surprised if the fan doesn't work with 5V, it is an old generic PSU. I'll fiddle around with things - removing some of the pci plates seems like it should help a lot. I'm in the process of modifying the hard drive bay, so I'll move it somewhere where it will be receive more airflow.
Is adding a furnace filter to the back ( a cheep high airflow one) to keep out dust out a good idea, or is it going to trap heat/cancel out the effects of removing pci slot covers?
Don't worry; I've been lurking around these forums for a while now (only decide to sign up today though).
I believe that I've done a through examination of my computer - even compared it with a slightly older Dell ( 1.4 GHz P4) that is about to get recycled (with a similar PSU and case fan).
The graphics card may be producing a lot of noise, but even when this computer is used for gaming, the hard drive, DVD drive (sounds like a truck driving by when it spins a DVD up), PSU and fan are all louder. I don't intend on using this computer for anything graphics intense, so I'm not too worried about that. I don't really want to have to pay for a really outdated graphics card that will create a marginally smaller amount of heat.
@IsaacKuo
Thanks. I wouldn't be surprised if the fan doesn't work with 5V, it is an old generic PSU. I'll fiddle around with things - removing some of the pci plates seems like it should help a lot. I'm in the process of modifying the hard drive bay, so I'll move it somewhere where it will be receive more airflow.
Is adding a furnace filter to the back ( a cheep high airflow one) to keep out dust out a good idea, or is it going to trap heat/cancel out the effects of removing pci slot covers?
Another Question
Ok, I had another look at my computer.
The fan is an 80mm fan with a 3 wire input.
The PSU doesn't seem to have any funky proprietaryness about it. It has a 20 pin connection to the motherboard and another 4 pin in this format:
http://www.pcdoctor-guide.com/wordpress ... ppost4.jpg
Then it has 4 four pin outputs to the IDE drives in this format:
http://www.ag.ndsu.nodak.edu/agcomm/acc ... /molex.jpg
Also it has a connection for the floppy drive, but that isn't important.
The PSU is roughly 15x14x9 cm.
As far as I know, this is a standard, old, ATX PSU (please correct me if I'm wrong).
So, unless I'm completely wrong, will I be able to find a silentish compatible PSU, or should I just try and mod the existing one?
Thanks again for the feedback,
Blue_Sky
The fan is an 80mm fan with a 3 wire input.
The PSU doesn't seem to have any funky proprietaryness about it. It has a 20 pin connection to the motherboard and another 4 pin in this format:
http://www.pcdoctor-guide.com/wordpress ... ppost4.jpg
Then it has 4 four pin outputs to the IDE drives in this format:
http://www.ag.ndsu.nodak.edu/agcomm/acc ... /molex.jpg
Also it has a connection for the floppy drive, but that isn't important.
The PSU is roughly 15x14x9 cm.
As far as I know, this is a standard, old, ATX PSU (please correct me if I'm wrong).
So, unless I'm completely wrong, will I be able to find a silentish compatible PSU, or should I just try and mod the existing one?
Thanks again for the feedback,
Blue_Sky
Are you very sure on the PSU, because I think I remember the dell PSUs missing a -5v rail or something like that. Doesn't really make any trouble when you put a normal motherboard on it (my dad has an MSI mobo running in a Dell system, the old mobo fried somehow), but who's saying that it goes the other way as well (normal PSU on proprietary motherboard)?
Anyway, it's good to hear you read up on this stuff already
Edit: A little something I googled:
Anyway, it's good to hear you read up on this stuff already
Edit: A little something I googled:
And something all together more interesting: Adapter for Dell Power SupplyDell and Power Supplies
(Info from Smart Computing – March, 2003 issue)
Most of today’s computer manufacturers use the standardized ATX format for their computer power supply units. But, not Dell!
Starting in September, 1998, Dell started a program that has created and continues to create problems for users seeking to replace or upgrade their Dell computers.
At first glance, both the power supplies and the motherboards in the Dimension line of desktops look like normal ATX-style equipment. The power connectors are the familiar keyed connectors we’ve grown accustomed to, as are the 12V connectors used for fans and other devices.
But appearances are deceiving. For reasons known only to Dell, the company decided to make alterations to the wiring harness, as well as the motherboards they ship. If you examine closely the wiring that plugs into the connectors, you will find that Dell has reversed several wires.
If you use a Dell brand power supply and motherboard, you will not have any problem, as the Dell motherboards expect this wiring arrangement. However, if you try to replace your Dell power supply with a non-Dell replacement, you may severely damage your motherboard because the replacement power supply would send the wrong currents to your system. Also, if you replace your Dell motherboard with a non-Dell approved motherboard, you will probably end up with a damaged motherboard. In either case, you also risk damaging the power supply, and some users have reported experiencing fires in their computers when using a non-Dell motherboard or power supply.
So, since Dell is using proprietary hardware, if you find a need to replace your power supply or motherboard in your Dell computer, be sure that you use either a Dell brand power or one that is compatible.
So if that is to be trusted, you could hook up a standard PSU without any trouble.Known exceptions:
Pentium 4 Dell Models that do not require a power supply adapter:
Dell Dimension 4300, 4400, 4500, 4700, 8200, 8300, OptiPlex GX 400
Options
There we go.
I took apart a really old PSU I had yesterday and the fan inside was just a normal 80mm fan. I tried it with a molex connector (5V pin), but it didn't start up, so I don't know whether I should bother undervolting the PSU's fan (they are the same brand and specs, couldn't find any info online about part numbering).
So, here are my choices:
A) buy an IDE laptop drive, a 40 to 44 pin adapter (anyone know where I can get one of these in Canada - I'd prefer not to use ebay), and a replacement fan for the PSU (I assume that I could take out the existing fan and fit a different 80mm fan in and rewire it, this worked on the PSU I took apart). This comes to $70 for the drive, $5-10ish for the connector and $15 for the fan.
B) buy a new PSU, either a Seasonic S-12 330 ($80) or a Seasonic S-12 380 ($100), depends on availability, and materials to dampen the hard drives vibration and hopefully the seek noise (up to $10ish).
C)Your ideas or any combination of the above
I took apart a really old PSU I had yesterday and the fan inside was just a normal 80mm fan. I tried it with a molex connector (5V pin), but it didn't start up, so I don't know whether I should bother undervolting the PSU's fan (they are the same brand and specs, couldn't find any info online about part numbering).
So, here are my choices:
A) buy an IDE laptop drive, a 40 to 44 pin adapter (anyone know where I can get one of these in Canada - I'd prefer not to use ebay), and a replacement fan for the PSU (I assume that I could take out the existing fan and fit a different 80mm fan in and rewire it, this worked on the PSU I took apart). This comes to $70 for the drive, $5-10ish for the connector and $15 for the fan.
B) buy a new PSU, either a Seasonic S-12 330 ($80) or a Seasonic S-12 380 ($100), depends on availability, and materials to dampen the hard drives vibration and hopefully the seek noise (up to $10ish).
C)Your ideas or any combination of the above
Installed standard power supply on Dimension 8200 and it's
I just installed a standard ATX power supply (all be it a cheap one: CompUsa SKU 282827 - 500 Watt 12V ver1.2 ATX). The Dell case does not allow for the toggle switch on the back of PWS to protrude through the case so I had to cut out piece of metal on the Dell case (these Clamshell cases are the worst design since the old wraparound metal cover that required 4 arms to get the hooks and groves aligned). Once I made a hole for the switch it installed securely without a problem. The old power supply (Model: HP-P2507F3 rev H01 Dell P/N: 4G456) appears simmular to a standard PWS except -5v, white wire, is missing on the ATX connector (main 20 pin connector attached to the MB) and of course no toggle switch. The computer turned on with the power switch on the front of the PC without a problem and presently I have been running Prime95 for 20 min without an error.
So far no smoke no fire no bad smell.
I don't know if the system will be stable tomorrow or 6 months from now but I hope this answers some questions.
So far no smoke no fire no bad smell.
I don't know if the system will be stable tomorrow or 6 months from now but I hope this answers some questions.