Problems with Tacen Suepero 600 (strange noises)

[javitxi]

Hi to everyone!

I have introduce myself on this topic, and for the questions on that topic, firstly my apologizes if I am not posting on the right place (and also if my English is not very good). I've discovered this forum by searching on the Internet about my problem and in many sites they said this is a very good forum, so I'm just posting over here

Secondly, I want to introduce my problem with the Tacen Supero 600. I've read many spanish forums and in one of them (sorry 'cos it's in Spanish) they talk about this problem: a strange 'clik clik clik clik'-noise which come out of the power supply Tacens. Well, on that forum they say that it is caused because the '0dB technology': at the limit of the nominal voltage to put the fan on, the fan hasn't the enough 'strength' (I think the word in English is powerhorse or torque probably) to work properly, so because of it the power supply makes that 'clik clik clik clik' noise

I think that they are right because on my power supply when that noise starts to come out, after opening the Pc case, I softly hit with a tiny stick the power suplly-fan in the direction of movement of the fan, and it start to work at few seconds

So, have you ever spotted this problem? Have you any similar problems? Are they and I correct with the source of the problem?

One of the solutions come carrying the power suplly to the shop and changing it to another Tacens 600, but one of the persons posting on the spanish forum I've given you before, had to change it 4 times until it worked him/her correctly

Another solution I've thougth is to exchange the warranty power suplly to another one, but which one should I choose or buy?

Many thanks for your help

Javier

[MikeC]

Welcome to spcr, javitxi.

The assessment sounds about right. The fan controller in that PSU does not "switch" the fan off -- it starts with a very low voltage that's not enough to get the fan started. This is fine as long as the voltage a much lower than the fan start voltage, but as it rises closer to the start voltage of the fan, then you get then ticking problem as the fan tries to overcome inertia.

If 4V is the established consistent start voltage of a fan, giving the fan 4V immediately will start it every time.

But if you start with 2V and slowly raise the voltage, then it might not start until 4.2V or 4.3V or....

Anyway, I would suggest that the problem you hear is intrinsic to the basic design.

The better -- and maybe more complicated -- way to have the fan turn off when not needed is to actually drop the voltage to ZERO when the temperature drops below a certain point, and to turn the voltage to the minimum voltage when the temperature goes higher.

I'd suggest you replace the PSU with a different model altogether.

[javitxi]

The better -- and maybe more complicated -- way to have the fan turn off when not needed is to actually drop the voltage to ZERO when the temperature drops below a certain point, and to turn the voltage to the minimum voltage when the temperature goes higher.

Thanks for your reply and for your welcome, MikeC.

Well...in theory what you say I think is not very difficult to assembly because of the fact that the tacens 0 dB technology is based on the idea of starting the fan when it is needed to: when the temperature raises to a certain point in which you want to evacuate the heat of your components.

Thinking about basic concepts and also technology, I think 'the circuit which switchs the fan' probably be (as far as I can remember) something like this (if you now something about analog and digital electronic):



If I am correct, meanwhile the voltage at the input 2 of the AND gate becomes less than a "1" logic (usually between Vcc and 0,8 Vcc, where Vcc is the voltage which you 'feed' the electronic circuit), the output will be a "0" logic (usually between 0V and 0.2 Vcc), so the switch don't allow to pass any power to the engine (see Note1 below)

So, by adding another thermistor or a 'thermal potenciometer' (a potenciometer in serial with a thermistor) between the DC voltage provided by the electronic transformer and the switch, you can controll the voltage and the 'electrif flow' (I'm not sure about the name of this in English, but is the magnitude which is measured by A, you know P (Watts) = V (Voltage) * I (A) = V^2/R = R*I^2)

So, if I would have how Tacens had designed the PSU, probably I would be able to solve this problem that is the solution you have proposed if I'm not wrong xD

Thanks for your feedback So, on the next week I'll carry the PSU back to the shop. Anyway, wich PSU of 520~600 Watts would you recommend me (or just another of 600 Watts or just a PSU you think probably fits ok on my computer which you can see on my signature, becaus I thought that Tacens was a realiable mark on PSUs)?

[MikeC]

W/ regard to power rating, 600W is overkill. 400W would be more than twice what you need for momentary peaks. I bet your system idles under 100W AC and maxes at ~200W AC peak. That's with an 80% efficient PSU.

Just look in the Recommended PSUs article.

[javitxi]

W/ regard to power rating, 600W is overkill. 400W would be more than twice what you need for momentary peaks. I bet your system idles under 100W AC and maxes at ~200W AC peak. That's with an 80% efficient PSU.

Just look in the Recommended PSUs article.

Uops....I've forgotten Note1 on previous post

From the wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic_level
Also, a little bit of extra stuff about the development of the logical gates and their power consumption: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic_fami ... el_problem

And now Note1: when you are down the voltage of an "1" logic and up of the zone of a "0" logic (so 0.2 Vcc < Current Voltage < 0.8 Vcc), you are in a kind of state that is not defined in digital circuits. So, in Boole Algebra (sorry but the best article on wikipedia about this is in Spanish: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebra_booleana, if you have interest on that, please ask me and I'll translate you or whatever ) the 'Truth table' of an AND logic gate is:

input A input B output
0 0 => 0
0 1 => 0
1 0 => 0
1 1 => 1

So, for that undetermined state (not 1 and not 0) we have to see the voltage on each transistor MOSFET (CMOS == Complementary MOS Technology) in order to see at that limit, wich voltage is at the output, but I think it probably be a voltage under 0,8 Vcc, so, to put the switch "on" I would put the limit at 0.8 Vcc (well, and if you or anyone are interested on discussing this, if you don't mind, I think it would be better by mp, wouldn't be?)

Focusing now on the topic and sorry for the offtopic ^^U:

I've found this power calculator, and my results are about 373 Watts at 85% of performance with +20% for the capacitor of the PSU (just in case because I plan to use this Pc for long time ^^)

My complete PC consist on, furthermore of the specs of my signature (the Graphic Card is the HD 4850, the Asus assembly of 1Gb):

x1 Western Digital WD1500HLFS 150 GB (VelociRaptor)

x1 Western Digital WD5002ABYS 500 GB (Caviar RE3, 24/7)

x1 Sony NEC Optiarc AD-7200S (the DvD-RW)

x1 Sony NEC Optiarc DDU1675S-0S (the DvD-R)

x1 SilverStone FP34 (target reader, like for the digital camera, mobile-phone, PSP, etc)

So, looking at this link about the power consumption of Graphic Cards, my HD 4850 consumes 41 Watts @Idle, 110 Watts @ Peak 3D, so are you sure that it would be fine with a PSU of 400 Watts? Because, when I play video games (just I haven't got Crisis but I plan to) I like to play them at the best quality but not the highest top (which means overclock, and I'm not a fan of it)

By reading your article of PSUs, it seems that Corsair 520HX would be a great choice. I've been looking on the shop (www.alternate.es) and there is no more Tacens 600W, so probably if they allow me to change the PSU, I'll change it for that one. Only I've got a question, is this one the Corsair 520HX you had tested? (I suppose yes, but just in case because with recent Pc components i'm little newbie )

Many thanks MikeC, and sorry if the post it's tooo long

Javier

[ACook]

like I said in an earlier reply on the same subject, that PSU calculator overestimates the W required by your system by close to a power of 2..

I can just about get my system up to 150W - the calulator says I need a 445W PSU


So don't go by that calculator.


.sig updated.

[MikeC]

I reiterate myself & also ACook -- I don't think your system will draw more than 200W even in peaks. I have this system under my desk right now:

Intel E8500
ATI 3850
4gb ddr3
2 WD VR300
20x DVD burner
Enermax Modu82+ 625W
a few other odds and ends

idle power -- 85W AC
max peak -- 160W AC

Obviously the PSU is overkill, but it's what I had on hand -- the review sample. I'd be perfectly good with a 385W or 425W version of the same.

The system is silent btw. Well under 20 dBA/1m. Something like 16dBA.

[javitxi]

Thanks ACook and MikeC

Reading on the Internet, I've soptted how to choose a PSU correctly (it's in Spanish sorry: http://www.hl2spain.com/foro/index.php?showtopic=37848)

So, assuming the consume peaks are: motherboard ~40W, E8500 ~65W, Ati HD4850 ~110W and my 2 Hard Disks ~ 14,4W, the total reaches ~ 230 W at full

So, the components of before are provided energy by the 12V line, 230W/12V ~ 19.17 A, if we add 4A more for the fans, leds an so on we have ~ 23 A (so there is a total of 276 W). Then looking at the guide about PSUs you've provided MikeC, I've choosed Corsair VX450W, which as you see on the manufacturer link, fits so far with my needs.

Thanks again for all you help MikeC and ACook. For sure I've learned a lot

Javier

[ACook]

this link was posted here, and it looks to be a far better calculator:

http://web.aanet.com.au/SnooP/psucalc.php