One-laptop per animal?

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s_xero
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One-laptop per animal?

Post by s_xero » Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:51 pm

Hi folks,

After all the news about the "make the world a better place"-thing, I
thought many times...yes I do.

In points:
1 - Why make the world a better place, then we are social animals. But in
the end our basic instincts take over to take care of ourselfs.
2 - Why give the children better education etc, when there are much
more important things in the world??

Point 2 is pretty ignorant? Think like this:
- People are important (why?), oh...an accident where people die are
directly named as disasters etc.
- How about the OTHER animals? Why are their numbers of loses in an
accident never made public, while people-victims are noted?
- How about the Rainforests, which are sacrificed to give the industry
"good wood". Isn't pine-wood good enough?
- And why isn't something done about this deforesting while the tropical
forests feed the world in the winter with oxigen?

Yes I am one of the FEW people how aren't IGNORANT and think about
themselves. And the question why I don't do something hard about the
points above?
Because if I wanted to, then I'd be named enemy of man
and stuff like that. I would be hunted by man around the world, I just
can't fight six billion people alone.

I find it hard to see that mankind thinks they are the best while not even
directly realising it. Have respect for nature in all it's ingenious ways! :idea:

While you'd probably not realise it, even ants and housespiders have
souls! You probably are a murder in every way, just the most people of
your country would think killing everything smaller than a mouse is ok...

Well... I don't.

And finally, what are rights and laws anyway, if they can just be ignored?

Please, share in this wonderful forum :)

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Post by Bluefront » Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:38 pm

OMG.....we should all go back to living in trees, eating berries and weeds? Right....that'll work. :shock:

scdr
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Post by scdr » Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:17 pm

The digital divide appears to be getting worse. Now we have a proposal to provide laptops to just the animals. :roll:

What about the plants? What about the fungi? What about the Monera, or Protista.

One laptop per organism!!

Just imagine the advances it would entail in laptop technology and miniturization to meet the demanding conditions under which some organisms live. The extreamophile laptop - works frozen in ice, in superheated water at the bottom of the ocean, deep in oil wells.
And the ease of use requirements would introduce a whole new era in user interfaces - so intuitive even an archaebacteria can use it.
Think of the economies of scale - none of these mere million unit orders.

--
"Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign of a diseased mind."
Terry Pratchett

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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:10 pm

i know spcr is supporting this idea.

I think it is a "let them eat cake" but so much so that no one even sees how it is related.

computers = hobby

150 dollars buys a massive amount of food for the people who never really needed a laptop. If the people who invented the microchip, the lcd screen, etc, had a laptop, they would have lost 50 IQ points on the hobby and never would have invented those things. True genius has no need for google.

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Post by Bluefront » Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:26 am

~El~Jefe~.......I'm not sure how to define a "true genius". But I can say this....When I went through college, there were no computers. I had to use the library to find information on any subject not covered in the text-books. This was a slow process, and I was limited to the books that were in that one college library.

Having a computer with internet access, with a free search engine, would have been a god-send to me in college. Present-day students have absolutely no idea how easy they have it. There are very few people who can construct things and refine ideas, without outside information.....maybe a genius, maybe not.

But I do think there are more important things in this world......than a computer. The world got along just fine before they existed...just a little slower.

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Post by Erssa » Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:59 am

scdr wrote:The digital divide appears to be getting worse. Now we have a proposal to provide laptops to just the animals. :roll:

What about the plants? What about the fungi? What about the Monera, or Protista.

One laptop per organism!!

Just imagine the advances it would entail in laptop technology and miniturization to meet the demanding conditions under which some organisms live. The extreamophile laptop - works frozen in ice, in superheated water at the bottom of the ocean, deep in oil wells.
And the ease of use requirements would introduce a whole new era in user interfaces - so intuitive even an archaebacteria can use it.
Think of the economies of scale - none of these mere million unit orders.

--
"Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign of a diseased mind."
Terry Pratchett
:D
~El~Jefe~ wrote:150 dollars buys a massive amount of food for the people who never really needed a laptop.
What a naive point of view.

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Post by Mohan » Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:51 am

Scary... serious or sarcastic?

[some other things have been here before on the more serious side, anyway, won't feed the topic more I guess]
Last edited by Mohan on Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:13 am, edited 2 times in total.

s_xero
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Post by s_xero » Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:07 am

Right, so sarcasmic titles are serious.. wow.

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Post by andyb » Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:58 pm

I can only hope that what s_xero's point actually was - is that we should take more care of our planets flora and fauna, and he was trying to highlight that as his point.

Or alternatively he was addressing the fundamental flaws of someone in a first-world country buying a laptop so that someone in a third-world country can get one and then sell it for half of its value so they can buy food at twice its value so they can stay alive for the next few months.


Andy

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Post by aristide1 » Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:29 am

Well how about one laptop per village, so that people know in advance of their impeding colonization?

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Post by NeilBlanchard » Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:12 am

Greetings,
~El~Jefe~ wrote:computers = hobby
I think it will be much more than a hobby. Have you folks looked at the software that comes on this machine?

http://www.laptopgiving.org/en/software ... erface.php

browser
email
calculator
chat client
eToys
journal
graphing
memory games
news reader
art programs
programing
stills, video, and sound recording
synthesizer
perform music
edit music studio
word processor
many more downloads...

The laptops use a "mesh" network to link together, and if one has Internet access, they all have access.

A simple cell phone can earn somebody in a remote village a lot of money -- in fact the whole village can greatly benefit by a having a single cell phone! How, you may ask? They can call and find out what the current prices are for their products, and when they sell them, this can be worth a lot to them.

Information is power. An education is power. This laptop can help with both of these.

Give the child $188 worth of food, they eat for a short while. Give a child a laptop, and they may eat for a lifetime -- and they may just contribute to many other people's ability to do much more than survive. Indeed, and education helps a person thrive.

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Post by Bluefront » Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:03 am

Neil.....I can tell you exactly what would happen to this laptop if given to a poor person where I live. Even if he had enough food, so he didn't have to sell the thing to survive.......It would get stolen, or sold to buy drugs. As soon as the bad guys found out who had one, the house would be broken into. If the poor guy carried it in public, he would be assulted, then robbed. In a really poor country......you could/would get killed for such a thing in a very short time.

Education/information is a good thing, but to expect a laptop to be the solution.....is a huge stretch.

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Post by Copper » Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:29 am

~El~Jefe~ wrote:computers = hobby
Computer + Internet = Information

It's one part of 'give an apple or teach how to grow an apple tree."

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Post by aristide1 » Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:09 am

Bluefront wrote:Education/information is a good thing, but to expect a
laptop to be the solution.....is a huge stretch.
Nothing is a total solution, it's a part. Doesn't take much thought to figure that out.

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Post by Mohan » Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:48 am

Copper wrote:It's one part of 'give an apple or teach how to grow an apple tree."
Yeah, like give a laptop or teach how to manufacture one...

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Post by Bluefront » Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:20 am

There's always been a limited amount of charity to go around.....this is not likely to change. The idea is to make the most of what you have available. This isn't the way.....Some of these poor countries don't even have books.

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Post by andyb » Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:49 am

A laptop is a luxury item, the whole scheme should have been launched towards first-world impoverished countries, like Bulgaria, France and the USA.

They dont need food and water, but I am sure that they could make some use out of these laptops for their children to learn things with, or more likely sell for drugs, guns, or fake UK passports.

What the children in the third world really need is food and water on a regular basis, and the knowlege to find clean water themselves and grow crops, all that the OLPC thing will do is give the people with guns and power even more money.


Andy

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Post by aristide1 » Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:05 pm

So if an isolated village has only laptop/ergo access to the Internet, and no other knowledgeable people are talking to the villagers, and they discover exactly how newly introduced pesticides are ruining their water supply, that's a luxury?

Ruined by the "not willing to spread the knowledge but eager for a profit" whities by the way.

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Post by andyb » Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:47 pm

So if an isolated village has only laptop/ergo access to the Internet, and no other knowledgeable people are talking to the villagers, and they discover exactly how newly introduced pesticides are ruining their water supply, that's a luxury?
3 Points.

1), Isolated village with internet access.
2), Newly introduced Pesticides.
3), Water Supply.

So you are assuming all of the above points are correct whilst also assuming that this luxury item A), actually finds its way to this village, and B), it isnt sold straight away.

You have an interesting and very flawed thought process. Let us take these points one at a time.

1), This isolated village actually has internet access via wired phone line or mobile phone.

That is such a flawed concept it is laughable

2), The villagers magically learn to read, then learn how to use the internet, manage to look up their particular Pesticide and its side effects - yet they could NOT manage to do this with the information that came with the Pesticide.

These people actually have Pesticides, they are far from cheap to aquire. If they did actually manage to get some then chances are they have a decently working profitable farm and are not insanely poor, therefore they will probably have experience with Pesticides and already understand how they should be used.

3), This is a direct follow on from point 3, they must be in a reasonable state of living if they have No.2, so No.3 would have happened much earlier.
Ruined by the "not willing to spread the knowledge but eager for a profit" whities by the way.
What exactly is that statement referring to - surely not the OLPC project that is funded by rich "whities" to give "free" laptops with ready-to-go internet access to these poor "darkies".........


Andy

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Post by aristide1 » Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:59 pm

I forgot, everyone there is illiterate. Right.

You can substitute an oil company in there if it makes you feel any better. I didn't want to pick on the fair minded people at Exxon/Mobil.

:shock:

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Post by andyb » Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:16 pm

I forgot, everyone there is illiterate. Right.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Lite ... _world.svg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy#W ... racy_rates

Most of Africa is <70% Literate with large parts being <50%. Not everyone is illiterate, but the more remote the village is the less likely they will be literate.
You can substitute an oil company in there if it makes you feel any better. I didn't want to pick on the fair minded people at Exxon/Mobil.
Why would I suggest that.??? You are not making any sense with your arguments at all.

Just because the OLPC project is fundamentally flawed does not make me evil and sadistic for pointing the flaws out to people, like most charitable organizations/concepts this has a pure and good motive. But it doesnt mean that it will work.

Some places will have sucess and their children will benefit, who will inturn make that area/country better. The flip side is that the laptops will be sold/stolen list like food aid/medicine has been for 30 years and sold to the highest bidder/destroyed out of malice so the people in power stay in power. Thats the reality.


Andy

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Post by aristide1 » Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:02 pm

Aren't there countries out there right now where what little truthful news comes across the Internet?

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Post by Trip » Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:48 pm

Yea, take America for instance :D

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Post by aristide1 » Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:15 am

I don't recall exactly when we got the right to say what they should and should not have.

Yeah Trip, things do suck when you let Rupert Murdoch tells you ever thing that alledgely s happening in the world. The problem with most people is it's very easy to let others lead you around by the nose.

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Post by andyb » Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:55 am

I don't recall exactly when we got the right to say what they should and should not have.
What....... We give them free stuff, of course we get to choose what we give them, thats what charity is all about.

If I set up a charity to give them free fertiliser for their crops, I could arrange to drop them a couple of tons of horse shit. Other people want to give them free laptops, which if you had read what I have written I dont have a problem with, I just think that its a flawed concept, and the horse shit might be better for them, along with some hose a pump, seeds, some information on paper, some tools etc etc up to the value of that laptop ($104).


Andy

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Post by Mohan » Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:49 am

andyb wrote:What....... We give them free stuff, of course we get to choose what we give them, thats what charity is all about.
You maybe jsut forgot a bit about how you got lucky to be born into a rich family... who or what got you those things you give from? And don't tell me most poor people wouldn't work off their asses like anybody for similar things if they had the chance...

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Post by Erssa » Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:54 am

andyb wrote:If I set up a charity to give them free fertiliser for their crops, I could arrange to drop them a couple of tons of horse shit. Other people want to give them free laptops, which if you had read what I have written I dont have a problem with, I just think that its a flawed concept, and the horse shit might be better for them, along with some hose a pump, seeds, some information on paper, some tools etc etc up to the value of that laptop ($104).
Actually sending them horse shit, could have a negative impact on the local camel shit industry. Your donation might end up increasing unemployment in the camel shit sector. I agree with people like James Shikwati, who opposes foreign aid to Africa. On the other hand, I don't see these laptops in such a negative light, it's not like they are going to destroy the blossoming computer industy in developing countries. The OLPC concept is a bit naive and some of the computers will probably end up in the "wrong" hands, but the world isn't perfect. If it helps to ease white man's guilt from colonial times, then let it be so...

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Post by andyb » Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:57 pm

Actually sending them horse shit, could have a negative impact on the local camel shit industry. Your donation might end up increasing unemployment in the camel shit sector.
:lol: Brilliant.
The OLPC concept is a bit naive and some of the computers will probably end up in the "wrong" hands, but the world isn't perfect.
That is exactly my concern also, but some people dont seem to be able to grasp these concepts. I would be willing to bet money that "as a general rule of thumb, the poorer the people who get an OLPC the higher the chance of it being stolen or sold". That is exactly the problem, for people without food, water, and medicine problems this would be great, places such as Bulgaria, France and the USA.
And don't tell me most poor people wouldn't work off their asses like anybody for similar things if they had the chance...
I wont.

James Shikwati seems to have some interesting ideas, and to a degree he is right, especially about the food "dumping".


Andy

PS: I dont bet money.

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Post by aristide1 » Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:19 pm

andyb wrote:
I don't recall exactly when we got the right to say what they should and should not have.
What....... We give them free stuff, of course we get to choose what we give them, thats what charity is all about.

....

Andy
Actually charitable organizations base their giving on the need. I could be CEO of Nestle, it doesn't mean that handing a starving child a candy bar will accomplish anything just because I felt like giving away candy. Just as manure is just manure if the land is not fertile.

There is also a thirst for knowledge, if you're a thinking person.

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Post by aristide1 » Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:23 pm

Erssa wrote:Actually sending them horse shit, could have a negative impact on the local camel shit industry. Your donation might end up increasing unemployment in the camel shit sector.
There would be no loss, as the horse shit sector would take up the slack.
Erssa wrote:... The OLPC concept is a bit naive and some of the computers will probably end up in the "wrong" hands, but the world isn't perfect.
Is that not the case or danger with all "tools"?
Erssa wrote: If it helps to ease white man's guilt from colonial times, then let it be so...
Just because this statement is worth noting doesn't mean I am going to mess with it. 8)

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