Where's the US going?

[aristide1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Union

How many never heard of this?

When will the Amero become more important that the Constitution? Or has that already happened?

How many sheeple are enjoying the ride?

A little group of willful men, representing no opinion but their own, have rendered the great government of the United States helpless and contemptible.

Woodrow Wilson

???

??

?

[qviri]

I don't know about Mexico, but from up here, the idea is laughable. The currency "union" would basically rename the American dollar, the societal and cultural integration has already happened, the work integration won't be happening anytime soon with the political climate, and it would be easier to treat the "NAFTA superhighway" more seriously if it didn't lead to the middle of nowhere in Saskatchewan.

[Plissken]

Don't waste time with the NAU. It's just another goofy conspiracy theory. The recipe:

1 teaspoon of facts, grossly misrepresented
2 cups of ridiculous assumptions

See JFK assasination, new world order, 9/11 truthers for examples.

[aristide1]

I don't know about Mexico, but from up here, the idea is laughable. The currency "union" would basically rename the American dollar, the societal and cultural integration has already happened, the work integration won't be happening anytime soon with the political climate, and it would be easier to treat the "NAFTA superhighway" more seriously if it didn't lead to the middle of nowhere in Saskatchewan.

Hey in Alaska we build bridges to nowhere, why not highways? If the money was going to Halliburton we'd build a bridge to the North Pole. And we'd keep rebuilding it because it doesn't stay in one spot.

[tehfire]

So finally we learn that aristide's undisclosed, sober location is in Alaska

[frostedflakes]

I'm not too worried about it, I tend to agree that it's conspiracy theorists blowing things way out of proportion.

Go watch Zeitgeist if you want to see how nuts some of the people who believe in this stuff are.

[thejamppa]

NAU will not succeed nor will EU unless its very loosely made Union. Since they belong western culturies where individual liberties and rights are cornerstone of society, forcing different peoples with different background and diffenrent nationalities work together is very very hard.

In Asia that would work better since there its common to put societys intrests prior individuals.

like all Unions EU will crumble with more or less violently. So far its so loose, that individual nations can do pretty much as they please without dangerion union. But when EU becomes tighter then Individual nations cannot do as they please. Then problems begin...

[aristide1]

So finally we learn that aristide's undisclosed, sober location is in Alaska

No, but I am in another nowhere. That is funny though.

I didn't ask whether people believed all this stuff, because there's not much to be done. Only if you were aware of it, and it was news to me.

From a neighbor who was not a conspiracy nut and lived through the ordeal. We were attacked at Pearl Harbor, but the attack was provoked. So the question remains; just how far will the government go?

Of course, Hitler had to be stopped, no doubt about that. I always wonder what things would be like if he had stuck to painting instead of politics.

Unfortunately whenever 2 extremes are telling their version of a story the truth will be somewhere in between. I'd like to know the truth, but I doubt I ever will.

[aristide1]

Go watch Zeitgeist if you want to see how nuts some of the people who believe in this stuff are.

Ignoring the way too historical portions and looking at current history Zeitgeist can only be described as frustrating.

The info given about Bush's grandfather. That should be cut and dry, he either did what he's accused of in that "accusation" (I couldn't bring myself to call it a film, slick and well made as it is) or he didn't. So:

1. He did these things, which leaves me asking why this hasn't been addressed by anyone else?

2. He didn't do these things, which leaves to ask why haven't more people spoken up against it. There's an author that wrote a tell-all book on the Bush family a while back. Was this fact in there? Why or why not?

I'd ask the same of the "banking conspiracy" that occurred in the early 1900's.

I got pulled into seeing "Fahrenheit 911" years ago. I was shocked at what happened in Florida, and how the democrats seemed more interested in protecting themselves than helping the people. After that the whole film did a Bush, it took the low road. It was outright childish. So the author became his own worst enemy. And the truth didn't matter to either side.

Geez, how many times do we have to see "The ends justifies the means?"

[Shadout]

NAU will not succeed nor will EU unless its very loosely made Union. Since they belong western culturies where individual liberties and rights are cornerstone of society, forcing different peoples with different background and diffenrent nationalities work together is very very hard.

Earlier European cultures placed society > individuals too. It could surely change again.
Not that I believe it will.

Not sure it will be impossible to bring the EU closer than it is now either, while it is indeed hard to force individuals to work together if they dont want to, you 'simply' have to make them believe they want it.
Right now that is certainly not the case though, and most European governments don't even want to ask their citizens about EU anymore, because they are afraid of the answer. But even then, the countries can get more integrated for a while without asking the people what they want (for better or worse depending on your point of view I guess).

[walle]

aristide,

You should know that different thoughts will have an exact response amongst the programmed sheeple, even more so if they happen to challenge their comfort zone.

[Beyonder]

How many sheeple are enjoying the ride?

A little group of willful men, representing no opinion but their own, have rendered the great government of the United States helpless and contemptible.

Woodrow Wilson

Do you actually know the origin and meaning behind this quote?

Wilson was speaking in reference to a small group of senators who killed armed-ship legislation in 1917. I find this a very odd selection in source material. It definitely has absolutely nothing to do with the NAU (which is, for the record, complete rubbish).

[aristide1]

How many sheeple are enjoying the ride?

A little group of willful men, representing no opinion but their own, have rendered the great government of the United States helpless and contemptible.

Woodrow Wilson

Do you actually know the origin and meaning behind this quote?

Wilson was speaking in reference to a small group of senators who killed armed-ship legislation in 1917. I find this a very odd selection in source material. It definitely has absolutely nothing to do with the NAU (which is, for the record, complete rubbish).

I have no reason to doubt you, but I believe he made similar remarks about the Federal Bank after he signed a bill in regards to it.

[Beyonder]

I have no reason to doubt you, but I believe he made similar remarks about the Federal Bank after he signed a bill in regards to it.

I seriously doubt it. Wilson is one of the most mis-quoted presidents ever.

For example,

Aaron Russo reads a quote widely attributed to Woodrow Wilson:

I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is now controlled by its system of credit. We are no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.

However, this is a well-known conflation of several quotes, only two of which can actually be attributed to Woodrow Wilson. The source of the first two sentences is unknown, and nowhere on record can be found to be said by Wilson. The third sentence (although slightly altered in this version) is found in the eighth chapter of Wilson's book, The New Freedom,[19] and originally reads

A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is privately concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men who, even if their action be honest and intended for the public interest, are necessarily concentrated upon the great undertakings in which their own money is involved and who necessarily, by very reason of their own limitations, chill and check and destroy genuine economic freedom.

The final sentence (beginning with "We are no longer..."), although again slightly altered from its original version, can also be found in The New Freedom (ninth chapter), and in its original context, reads

We have restricted credit, we have restricted opportunity, we have controlled development, and we have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated, governments in the civilized world--no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men.

Mis-quoting people is so patently dishonest and misleading that I always take time to make sure the person who is attributed to the quote A) actually said it, and B) said it in the same context that the purveyor of the quote is claiming (i.e. surrounding context of the quote is often crucial, and people deceive one another by removing that context).

Wilson and Linoln are so often mis-quoted that it is sickening, and by people who are asserting arguments that are often completely fallacious. It is nothing less than forgery.

[aristide1]

I got that quote from BrainyQuotes.com

It's not like one of those made-up PJ O'Rourke quotes.

[Beyonder]

No, but the quote is strangely Not Applicable to the thread subject. Which makes me think somebody is trying to conceal the absence of a real argument by appealing to an authority figure.