Do you feel safer now?

[xan_user]

THE Home Office has quietly adopted a new plan to allow police across Britain routinely to hack into people’s personal computers without a warrant.

jeez and I thought we had it bad in the states, 'course its not like they'd tell us...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/p ... 439604.ece

The hacking is known as “remote searchingâ€

[blackworx]

There's been quite a lot of backdoor anti-privacy nastiness happening in the UK recently, all buried in ostensibly innocuous legislation, usually filed as a statutory instrument (i.e. not debated in parliament). The words "police state" are getting bandied about by more and more people. The current govt. are infamous for their near-constant outpouring of huge, poorly-worded bills and amendments. Stuff like this is getting spotted and highlighted all the time, but opposing it effectively is like herding cats, especially when the "official" opposition don't really give a monkeys as long as the public doesn't.

Whilst this particular nastygram has come "via Europe" (and such "warrantless wiretap" legislation is already firmly in place in Germany) the political climate that has made it all possible (and "necessary" in the eyes of some politicians) has come in the post 9/11 war on terror instigated by Bush and his lapdog Blair, who now both have their arses well and truly parked on the gravy train, destination: comfortable old age.

Yes, this is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the Privacy and Identity issues in Europe just now. I read recently that Finland has passed a bill to fingerprint everyone - Finnish national and immigrant alike - and to allow the police to use the fingerprint database in the fight against crime.

Nothing to hide != nothing to fear. So no, I don't feel safer now than I did ten years ago, and it's all down to my elected representatives.

[alecmg]

10 years ago was when Yugoslavia was attacked. After that world is going down.

[Matija]

10 years ago was when Yugoslavia was attacked. After that world is going down.

lolwut?

[nutball]

I dunno. 10 years ago the IRA were still a latent threat here. Now they're not. Despite the PR efforts of the current government I really can't take the threat from the whacky funsters at Al Qaeda Towers very seriously, nor the home-grown idiots who buy their videos and bread recipes.

What does worry me, sorry worry is the wrong word ... what REALLY PISSES ME OFF are the unceasing efforts by our government to register everyone in some database or other, be it ID cards, extended criminal records, the database of every child in the country, the list goes on. These are hugely invasive, hugely expensive and will not work - they will not work technically (government IT projects are invariably a disaster), and they wouldn't even solve the problem they're sold as solving even if they did function as intended, because they're invariably the wrong solution anyway. The solution to every problem seems to be yet another £12bn database, which is just silly.

I'm not worried about this from a conspiracy theory point-of-view, I'm not of the view that the guvvmint is out to control our minds, or anything like that. My main concern is that these databases represent an unprecedented concentration of personal information on citizens which will, in all likelihood, then be written to CD-ROM and lost in the post. Large numbers of people will have access to these databases, the potential for deliberate or accidental misuse is huge. The consequences of inaccurate information, poorly phrased searches and over-reliance on "what the computer says" by the security forces at times of high drama could even be fatal, if your name or movements happen to match their view of the name or movements of a terrorist.

So no, I don't really feel safer, and I feel the most significant threat to me as an individual is friendly-fire from the people who are supposedly introducing all this nonsense to make me safer.

[Tobias]

10 years ago was when Yugoslavia was attacked. After that world is going down.

lolwut?

Well, I interpreted alecmg's comments as that with the nato attacks that commenced in 1999 nato took on a more active role in the world, which after 9/11 got even more distinct. Hence everything has gone downhill since...

I'm not so sure I agree, though, as I'd say it is the fear and fear mongering that has taken place since 9/11 that is largely the cause of these "restrictions" in privacy we've seen of late. Although there were signs of it before as well, so maybe 9/11 is only used as an excuse to do what the governments wanted to do anyways but couldn't motivate...

I'm not worried about this from a conspiracy theory point-of-view, I'm not of the view that the guvvmint is out to control our minds, or anything like that. My main concern is that these databases represent an unprecedented concentration of personal information on citizens which will, in all likelihood, then be written to CD-ROM and lost in the post. Large numbers of people will have access to these databases, the potential for deliberate or accidental misuse is huge. The consequences of inaccurate information, poorly phrased searches and over-reliance on "what the computer says" by the security forces at times of high drama could even be fatal, if your name or movements happen to match their view of the name or movements of a terrorist.

In Sweden we have a very invasive law about saving any and all computer traffic routed through cables in Sweden. It was decided by the politicians and anyone that opposed was asked "So, what illegalities is that you want to hide? None? Then why do you worry? The government is benign and the info is only going to be used for your safety"

The main problem with this line of reasoning is this: Yes, our CURRENT government may be benign, but don't forgett that the Nazis were ELECTED in a fair election and we have no idea what government we will have in 30 years. So, even though we don't have an oppressive government today, why should we give it the tools of one to use if we ever get one?

[blackworx]

I dunno. 10 years ago the IRA were still a latent threat here. Now they're not. Despite the PR efforts of the current government I really can't take the threat from the whacky funsters at Al Qaeda Towers very seriously, nor the home-grown idiots who buy their videos and bread recipes.

What does worry me, sorry worry is the wrong word ... what REALLY PISSES ME OFF are the unceasing efforts by our government to register everyone in some database or other, be it ID cards, extended criminal records, the database of every child in the country, the list goes on. These are hugely invasive, hugely expensive and will not work - they will not work technically (government IT projects are invariably a disaster), and they wouldn't even solve the problem they're sold as solving even if they did function as intended, because they're invariably the wrong solution anyway. The solution to every problem seems to be yet another £12bn database, which is just silly.

I'm not worried about this from a conspiracy theory point-of-view, I'm not of the view that the guvvmint is out to control our minds, or anything like that. My main concern is that these databases represent an unprecedented concentration of personal information on citizens which will, in all likelihood, then be written to CD-ROM and lost in the post. Large numbers of people will have access to these databases, the potential for deliberate or accidental misuse is huge. The consequences of inaccurate information, poorly phrased searches and over-reliance on "what the computer says" by the security forces at times of high drama could even be fatal, if your name or movements happen to match their view of the name or movements of a terrorist.

So no, I don't really feel safer, and I feel the most significant threat to me as an individual is friendly-fire from the people who are supposedly introducing all this nonsense to make me safer.

Yep.

I would add that, while the gubmint might not have sinister motives*, the current one seems to be in the process of losing touch with the fact that they exist to serve the people and not the other way round. This whole business of "joined up government" whereby they talk of the benefits of these databases not only in terms of counter terror/crime, but in wavy-handed terms of "stamping out benefit fraud" is nothing if not sinister, and the line has to be drawn somewhere.

We managed to infiltrate and combat the IRA without multi-billion pound databases or a constant barrage of poorly-drafted liberty-restricting legislation that even our courts can't keep up with. You only need to take the relative government reactions to the IRA at their most prolific - a very real and potent threat - and this Islamic fundamentalist "menace" that is being shoved down our throats at every turn to know that we are being sold a lie and to know where that lie originated.

* But don't get me started on Jacqui Smith. Some of the things that woman says scare the hell out of me.

[blackworx]

The main problem with this line of reasoning is this: Yes, our CURRENT government may be benign, but don't forgett that the Nazis were ELECTED in a fair election and we have no idea what government we will have in 30 years. So, even though we don't have an oppressive government today, why should we give it the tools of one to use if we ever get one?

I totally agree with you, but I must say that arguing the practicality is a guaranteed loss - it's the principle that matters. Governments should not have access to that level of information about their citizens full stop, not now, not ever.

[vertigo]

You most likely won't feel safer because governments tend to do well when things go wrong. This global downturn is going to pay dividends especially as far as Europe is concerned, and it gives Obama incredible leverage to make grand gestures and big changes. Luckily, the Second Amendment is a roadblock but for example the UK is in political freefall. Our politicians answer to absolutely no-one and it was only when the EC overrode their decision to warehouse DNA from innocent people that they took a step back (to wait for the Lisbon Treaty to happen I suspect, who knows what laws will change after that).

[NyteOwl]

As an acquaintance said the other day "damnit protect me from our governemnt! I'll take my chances with the terrorists, shoplifters and the the like"

Time to elevate George Orwell to the status of Prophet.

[aristide1]

Clearly - NO

[xan_user]

A day or two after I started this thread I watched PBS-NOVA "Spy factory"
'Nova' examines the spy business

Im more scared than ever.

Of government.

Every "bit" of data/phone moving through the USA is captured and stored. All of it, no warrants, no oversight. If thats what we "know" they're up to, I shudder to think whats really going on. Not only here and the EU but imagine how bad some of the less "free" countries must be spying their citizens.

[nutball]

Another week, another database...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7877182.stm

[aristide1]

I'm mean really. What kind of a nutball would feel safer?

Ooops, sorry.

Just kidding.

[Redzo]

Seeing that so called "democratic" goverments are doing everything in their power to control what "average joe" is doing, talking, whom they are calling and so on makes me think of DDR and Soviet.

20 years ago we were PROUD of our freedoms and we felt sorry about ppl living on the "other side" and look at us now.

It seems to me that everybody today is considered criminal and/or terrorist until proven otherwise.
The saddest thing is that ppl are buying that crap and are standing in line, happy to give away their hard earned freedoms. It really makes me wanna cry.
In my opinion terrorist have WON. Big time too !

[Aris]

i think the only way anyone is actually going to "Feel" safer, is if we all just forget 9/11 ever happened, and go back to burying our heads in the sand like we did in the 90's. Ahhh the good ole days.

[~El~Jefe~]

England does not have civil rights, a bill of rights or any rights. It makes them up as it goes along, there is no garauntee of rights at all.

this is why the US was made! this is the reason for the revolution! no protection to do business or live a personal life.

England looks dandy until you realize that only the politically correct rights, like religion, being gay, are protected. information tech, personal opinion, public speaking, assembling in public, press/newspapers, are all under the government control and dictum.

yay.

[nutball]

England does not have civil rights, a bill of rights or any rights. It makes them up as it goes along, there is no garauntee of rights at all.

this is why the US was made! this is the reason for the revolution! no protection to do business or live a personal life.

You need to read up your history a little better.

[blackworx]

England does not have civil rights, a bill of rights or any rights. It makes them up as it goes along, there is no garauntee of rights at all.

this is why the US was made! this is the reason for the revolution! no protection to do business or live a personal life.

England looks dandy until you realize that only the politically correct rights, like religion, being gay, are protected. information tech, personal opinion, public speaking, assembling in public, press/newspapers, are all under the government control and dictum.

yay.

[thejamppa]

In 10 years a lot has happened. Gap between Muslim's and West has widened, while Europe has come more united. While countries have become more united, refugee's and emmigrants have become more alienated.

Russia has gained tremendous power in 10 years and is more viable power in economics, politics and military in Europe, Asia and in Middle-East.

Perhaps most dramatic change is happening however in the South-America. Sparsed countries, are now looking to unite and create counter force for USA and EU...

As world nations are going into blocks of their own, that decreases changes of small skirmishes and increases changes of bigger wars. Because of gap between Islam and West, changes of terrorism is very real.

I'd say in 10 years a lot has changed. While some threats have gone, others have been appeared. I think security of world, is pretty much remained the same in general speaking.

[~El~Jefe~]

you dont need history to know that england does not have free speech, free press, and privacy. that is current events.

[blackworx]

I think it's time for a quote.

"None is more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

[judge56988]

England does not have civil rights, a bill of rights or any rights. It makes them up as it goes along, there is no garauntee of rights at all.

this is why the US was made! this is the reason for the revolution! no protection to do business or live a personal life.

yay.

Heard of this?... Magna Carta: The Great Charter of English liberty granted (under considerable duress) by King John at Runnymede on June 15, 1215; so predating the constitution by nearly 600 years.

England looks dandy until you realize that only the politically correct rights, like religion, being gay, are protected. information tech, personal opinion, public speaking, assembling in public, press/newspapers, are all under the government control and dictum.

That's horseshit.
Free speech has (IMHO) gone too far in the UK when Extremist Islamic preachers are allowed to stir up hatred of the West, using the very freedoms we give them to plot the destruction of that society. Have you any idea what would happen to a christian preacher in Saudi Arabia, for Instance?
Have you not seen any footage of the demonstrations in London against the Iraq war, the cost of fuel or less recently, the Poll Tax; which incidentally was changed after public hostility and near riots.
If you had read a British newspaper you would see how critical of the government they can be, for the BBC, it appears to be the primary objective.
As for controlling personal opinion - has some new kind of mind control been invented? Oh yes, it's called advertising, invented in the US I think. Advertising unhealthy food, drink, endless consumerism - while in this country at least the government is vainly attempting to teach the masses how to live a healthy life style. I think it's an American conspiracy to make the English the fattest and unhealthiest population in the world instead of you lot.

[xan_user]

Whats in your backyard?

elephants from space.



Military Jet parked in paris suburban neigborhood.


http://www.pcworld.com/article/134186/i ... earth.html[/i]