tim851 wrote:I don't have a complete overview of the media coverage, but I think most outlets only report he's a Christian, as opposed to being a Muslim. What any person really believes, may be complex anyways. I know people claiming to be Christian, but they believe in the theory of evolution. A lot of them actually. There are many conservative Christians, who wouldn't accept those "evolutionists" as believers. So what constitutes a Christian and what doesn't is not even clear. Numerous churches claim jurisdiction, none have gotten it. There have been quite a few Catholic priests who sexually abused minors. Are they Christian? They say they are, their actions speak differently.
In light of this, we can only accept what a person tells us. We might think they are deceptive, but who are we to judge?
First, I don't believe that evolution and Christianity are mutually exclusive. For more on this subject please read Saving the Appearances: A Study in Idolatry
, 1957, by Owen Barfield.
Secondly, my point is not what religious membership Obama has, or what church he attends, but what he really believes. This is a complex matter as you noted, and not something the media should report on as if they actually knew simply on the basis of church attendance. This is especially true for a politician who is pretty much required to claim certain things publicly if he wants to get elected.
I have no idea. As I said, I just did a quick check on Google. But wouldn't a foreign brand car with an American VIN suffice for election too?
Not in Illinois. It is not where the car is made, but who owns the company, and whether it is a union shop.
This is your personal preconception than actual fact, is it? So you compare Obama's claim to be a Christian (which would indeed be the defacto requirement for the presidential office) with his owning a Chrysler when according to your belief system he should really drive a Mercedes. That seems very rational to me.
I didn't say it was a fact, but I said I would be willing to bet. Would you be willing to bet against me? Also, at no time did I ever mention Mercedes. We are talking about American automakers vs non-American automakers (regardless of where the car is made).
Well, I do agree the political views of political candidates shouldn't be a news item at all. But they are. And since they are, it is most reasonable to assume a guy who attends church and says he's Christian really is. He's definitely not a Muslim, since from what I know attending a Christian mass and claiming to be a Christian already gets you a ticket to their hell. What do you care why he does it? There may be people who are just afraid to burn in the lake of fire. There may be people who go just to please their neighbors. And there may be people who go just to satisfy the electorate.
It is most reasonable to assume that a politician who is an atheist or agnostic is not going to reveal his true thinking to the public (if he wants to get elected). Many atheists or agnostics will belong to a church for the sake of their spouses and/or children, even if they personally think differently in private. So while this does not prove that Obama is an atheist or agnostic, it is possible that he is, despite the claims of the media and his press secretary to the contrary.
If Obama has a ticket to Muslim Hell then he would be a Muslim, not a Christian (although we are talking about what Obama personally believes, rather than what are the various rules and regulations issued by the human leaders of a particular religion).