Dvorak keyboard layout, anyone used it?

Zyzzyx · Post by **Zyzzyx** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 4:17 pm

For the third time now I've decided to try using the Dvorak keyboard layout instead of the standard Qwerty. I've gone for a 99% immersion training, using it during the day and at home in the evening. Been a couple days now and I'm quite pleased with my progress. Tested last night at ~70wpm Qwerty, and managed ~20wpm Dvorak. Going to be fun to watch that climb.

So I'm rather curious if anyone out there has tried, or is using, the Dvorak keyboard layout. Anyone?

GamingGod · Post by **GamingGod** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 4:39 pm

what is dvorak? I know qwerty is the standard keyboard. I guess ive never seen a dvorak one.

Zyzzyx · Post by **Zyzzyx** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 4:48 pm

Here's a pic of a standard Dvorak layout. It places the very commonly used keys on the home row, and does very well with alternating keystrokes between hands.

Zyzzyx · Post by **Zyzzyx** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 9:49 pm

Yup. That's what makes it fairly well balanced between the hands when typing.

I haven't noticed any words yet like 'stewardesses' or 'minimum', my favorite left and right hand typed words.

Semm · Post by **Semm** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:58 am

Zyzzyx, keep us posted? I've been interested in trying that layout for a while, but never have gotten up the nerve to jump in and do it. Maybe I'll have to now.

Zyzzyx · Post by **Zyzzyx** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:48 am

Tried the typing test again last night (www.typingtest.com - 3 minute test, Huck Finn) and managed to get 25wpm. Still slow right now, but when I manage to cleanly type three or four words in a row it does feel smoother and easier than the Qwerty layout.

I think it will be rather neat to be able to change back and forth between the two layouts without trouble. Something I'll be forced to do with 30 other computers in the office.

Zyzzyx · Post by **Zyzzyx** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:51 am

Oh, and here's a page with a good Dvorak based training:

http://www.gigliwood.com/abcd/

(probably the biggest annoyance right now is not having X, C, and V in the same locations, for cut/copy/paste; something I plan to fix with macros programmed into my keyboard)

peteamer · Post by **peteamer** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:56 pm

Just for interest,
think I'm right in saying that qwerty was developed back in the day because of the 'mechanical needs' of typewriters. (ask your mum

)

It was developed to help minimise the long 'thingies' crashing and jamming.

Dvorak was developed (by I think an American) to be 'human' friendly.

I recal talking to a typist who had used Dvorak and she claimed you can get higher words per minute.
There is also at least one other format... but that's too geeky to know about and i'm not going to tell you. Doh!!!.

Well actually I cant recall much about it/them other than they exist.

Will get back to you on that..... sorry I rather stupidly thought you may be interested

Pete

einolu · Post by **einolu** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:15 pm

iiiinteresting, it would be hard to be good at both though, and if you switch computers a lot...

for me just going to a laptop keyboard is a pain in the ass!

~EO

1398342003 · Post by **1398342003** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 1:42 am

I use Dvorak exclusivly and I can type much more smoothly than with Querty. I think the reason for that is that I learned Querty with my eyes on the keys, but with Dvorak I forced myself to type with my eyes on the screen.

Anyways, I can type at least 5 wpm faster than the 25 wpm that I was managing with Querty.

GamingGod · Post by **GamingGod** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 9:33 am

25? Yikes. Now im curious how fast everyone types. People tell me that I type fast. I tested at 65wpm from page reading, and probably closer to 75+ if im typing straight out of my head.

Semm · Post by **Semm** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 11:06 am

Let's see...I took a typing test at one point and I have a little certificate saying I can type 72 WPM (reading a text and copying it), but my wife was talking to me the whole time asking "what are you doing?" so I think I can do a bit better than that :) I don't think I'm appreciably faster typing from my head, but I may be.

Zyzzyx · Post by **Zyzzyx** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 11:19 am

www.typingtest.com

I recommend the three minute test, to get more of an average score. I found that I could 'burst' type with the one minute test.

As I mentioned in my first post, I can manage ~70wpm Qwerty and am up to ~25wpm Dvorak so far.

Semm · Post by **Semm** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 12:00 pm

Yes, a one minute test can catch you "on a roll." My test was a 5-minute one and I hate to admit it, but I stumbled in a couple parts. 0 errors though

Zyzzyx · Post by **Zyzzyx** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 1:34 pm

World's fastest typist:

http://sominfo.syr.edu/facstaff/dvorak/blackburn.html

(on a Dvorak layout, too)

Seal · Post by **Seal** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 3:55 am

Yeah ive learned it a while back and got upto a very decent speed but i dont use it anymore, i found it quite fustrating with the lack of program support for dvorak keyboards, like for example your shortcut keys wont work anymore because all the letters are in different places, especially for the commonly used shortcuts like copy+paste etc...

I did however find it VERY fast and easy on my hands. The reason why i learned it was because i developed RSI which is very very painful, i still feel a little strain in my arm when im typing this atm. In windows xp you can set Alt+Shift to switch between different kb layouts, this was handy but even still i found it quite annoying having to constantly switch, also it screwed up my game keys.

Dvorak keyboard layout is by FAR superior then qwerty but due to incompatability im no longer using it

. The fact especially that the home keys are set to the most commonly used keys (like vowels) just totally makes sense compaired to the qwerty keyboard which just seems to be *TOTALLY* random layout!

The best way to learn ive found is print out a dvorak key layout when your learning, and stick it on your monitor on the bottom, so if you really need to look, you can glance down. Thats how i learned it and it proved very fast.

Zyzzyx · Post by **Zyzzyx** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:03 pm

Been a couple weeks now, and I'm feeling like I've settled in to the layout now. Still getting lots of use out of the backspace key, but getting better. On a typing test, copying the words, I'm up to low 30s for speed. If I'm typing from my mind (like this) it feels like I'm a bit faster.

Going to be some work to get back up to 60+wpm, but I'm sticking with it this time.

SometimesWarrior · Post by **SometimesWarrior** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 3:25 pm

Wow, 75WPM on a two-minute Huck Finn typing test. I had no idea I could type that fast, especially since I don't use my pinkies for anything other than apostrophes.

Good luck with the Dvorak project, Zyzzyx; I tried that layout for about 10 minutes before giving up. I suppose if I was more serious about it, I could sacrifice a keyboard and rearrange the letters, so I could look down and see where the keys were.

Seal · Post by **Seal** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 4:31 pm

72wpm on strat alliences. Crap on the huck finn. im really naff with punctuation and the huck finn has loads of it! i should really learn to tidy up my bad habits i'd benefit alot more!

Post by **Ralf Hutter** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 7:58 am

Seal wrote:72wpm on strat alliences. Crap on the huck finn. im really naff with punctuation and the huck finn has loads of it! i should really learn to tidy up my bad habits i'd benefit alot more!

Dayem if i typed like you i could probably type 150wpm.

Zyzzyx · Post by **Zyzzyx** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:10 am

Been nearly four weeks now, and I'm definitely settled into this now. Had to type on a flat Qwerty board this morning for awhile. Took me a couple minutes to get settled, but managed ok. Felt very awkward and sloppy compared to the keystrokes I'm used to now with the Dvorak layout.

I'm into the upper 30s on the speed test now, but still feel that I'm faster when not trying to copy text.

So, verdict after one month? I'm not going back. Even when I swap my own ergo board back to Qwerty it feels slow and awkward. I can definitely feel the speed potential (and ease of use) with the Dvorak layout now.

sthayashi · Post by **sthayashi** » Sun Feb 08, 2004 10:16 pm

Congratulations.... I'm another Dvorak user, and although I can't say that my speed has been increased, it's certainly more comfortable for me to type. One tool that I found useful, since my job often requires me to work on shared computers, is DVassist. Of course, it IS a windows program, but I've found Dvorak to be less useful on UNIX CLI
http://clabs.org/dvorak.htm

For the others, one thing about Dvorak is that you can be semi-productive while you're learning. The number of words you can type on the home row alone is impressive. For example, only 6 non-home row keys are used in the phrase "Silent PC Review" (L, P, C, R, and W, for those keeping track).

Now I want to learn is the right and left-handed Dvorak, so that I can eat and chat online/send emails at the same time.

Zyzzyx · Post by **Zyzzyx** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:34 pm

Wow, doesn't seem like its been two months since I changed to Dvorak. Yet sometimes it does still feel new and awkward. Two months Dvorak to 20 years Qwerty, guess it is still new.

Definitely settled in now. Up to a comfortable 45 wpm, probably a bit faster when I can type 'stream of consciousness' instead of copying text on the screen. Have found that my difficulties using the Qwerty layout while I was learning the Dvorak have lessened. Not nearly as fast as I was with Qwerty, but I can sit down and type away with minimal mistakes.

Again, I'd recommend Dvorak to anyone that spends all day at the computer, typing away. That, and the immersion style of learning was the only way to go. As mentioned long ago, I tried Dvorak a couple times before, but only in practice. Was still using Qwerty when I had to 'get something done'. Like learning a new language, immersion training is the quickest.

Seal · Post by **Seal** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 5:24 pm

Now youve learned dvorak, do you find it very difficult to switch when you use a non dvorak computer??? Thats one worry i have to learning dvorak.

1398342003 · Post by **1398342003** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:20 am

Seal wrote:Now youve learned dvorak, do you find it very difficult to switch when you use a non dvorak computer??? Thats one worry i have to learning dvorak.

Yes.

Sometimes you can get a kind of dual layout in your head, then you can type easily with either layout. But that's rare, even for me.

Zyzzyx · Post by **Zyzzyx** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 8:55 am

Seal wrote:Now youve learned dvorak, do you find it very difficult to switch when you use a non dvorak computer??? Thats one worry i have to learning dvorak.

Overall, yes. But that's because I've got my own snazzy Kinesis ergo board at home and work. Any Qwerty board I have to type at is an old flat one. I absolutely detest standard flat keyboards, and the 'normal' split ergo boards aren't too much better.

But, as for changing between the key layouts, I don't find it too bad. Supporting ~40 computers at the office I still have a few times each day when I have to use Qwerty. Usually the first few words or sentence might be a bit rough, with extensive backspace key usage, but then it smooths out. I'm nowhere near the 60+ wpm that I used to have on Qwerty, but still better than many of the folks in the office.

AZBrandon · Post by **AZBrandon** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 9:27 pm

Tried all 4 tests at 2 minutes each. The Strategic Alliance one was certainly the easiest for me to type out. The huck finn one had all sorts of bad grammar and non-words "ain't?" and the Finland thing had bizzare stuff like spelling center as centre and whatever. Anyway, scored 96wpm with 2 errors on Strategic, which it said worked out to 95wpm. I'm sure if I tried it 5 or 6 more times I could break 100, but that would kind of be cheating I guess. Scored in the mid to high 80's for the other tests.

1398342003 · Post by **1398342003** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:42 am

After you mentioned the Kinesis ergo KB I went on a 3 day search for a good ergo KB. I couldn't find one that I liked, so I went for the cheap and dirty method. I stuck about 1"-1.5" of wood under the front feet of my Natural Elite. It's MUCH more comfortable than it was before.

And it was free.