ATI HD 2600 and HD 2400

[Chang]

IIRC, the onboard GPU I was using was perfectly fine with 2D for my LCD (1920x1200) and CRT (1600x1200) at the same time. So multimonitoring at high resolutions is very doable. But I do more than just 2D so I went with a passive card.

And I'm still confused by why anyone would choose a 7300 GT based on idle power consumption.

If energy cost is a concern, that 14W difference at $0.10/kWh works out in the US to be around $1 savings if you run it 24/7 for a month. Of course if you're only using it 8 hours a day, drop the system into standby when idle, and do anything that brings the GPU out of idle (all normal, reasonable things), you're probably looking at a savings of less than $0.01 a day. Hardly a compelling reason to go with the 7300 GT.

If power dissipated into the case is a concern, it would matter if you could magically keep one card at 87W cool silently but not 14W more of heat. Never mind the fact that that system will need to keep a whooping 71W more of heat at times. Keeping 87W to 158W silently cool is harder than keeping 101W to 140W silently cool. Even with passively cooled cards, much of that heat still gets dumped into the case where it may cause other fans to ramp up.

[yefi]

And I'm still confused by why anyone would choose a 7300 GT based on idle power consumption.

It is not just the 7300GT, I pick all my components mindful of power efficiency and that means a system that would run at idle at 120W runs at half it. That in turn improves running costs and, unless you are running Orthos for 15 minutes, noise.

On that point, you know I would not buy a 7300GT for the idle power alone if the maximum was significantly higher. But it isn't. The system runs 12W more under heavy load. For the 1% of the time I stress it to that level I will incur a 12W penalty on my desktop system. Are you telling me that that is more important than the 14W for 95-99%?

Concerning cost, it doesn't work out to much for the card, about £13 per annum for 24/7 operation (in my case). That still buys a lot of Scottish ale though. (Brits have a habit of converting all savings into beer, who am I to buck the trend.)

[Aris]

i'd agree with yefi. The only thing load power requirements really change is "how big does my power supply have to be?". I think MikeC did an article once about how often a computer is idle, and its somthing like 90% of the time. Idle power consumption is much more revolant than load power consumption.

My system fans dont increase under load conditions. I have the system designed in such a way that the fans can always be run at their slowest possible speeds and still keep the system cool under any load or normal ambient temperatures. And if you design a computer system properly you can do this with almost any system. You shouldnt need to worry about what load power requirements are because it might make your system louder. If you can hear the system under load, and not at idle, your doing something wrong.

I also agree that it makes much more sense to buy a motherboard that fits your needs and then get a 3d card to compensate for things lacking onboard. There are just too few motherboards out there with dual head output, amung other things. Its much easier to just throw a low end passive video card in the expansion slot and get other things important to you on the motherboard instead.

If i was choosing between the 7300gt and the 2400pro, id go for nvidia. Not just because of the lower idle power consumption, but also for driver support. The only time id ever use an ATI again is if the hardware was just obviously superior, and in this case, it isnt.

[Chang]

And I'm still confused by why anyone would choose a 7300 GT based on idle power consumption.

Concerning cost, it doesn't work out to much for the card, about £13 per annum for 24/7 operation (in my case). That still buys a lot of Scottish ale though. (Brits have a habit of converting all savings into beer, who am I to buck the trend.)

So you're cost sensitive enough to worry about saving a quid a month, but still run 24/7 instead of dropping into standby (and potentially saving many times that amount)? And if a computer is actually idle 90% of the time, it should be in standby for most of that time (negating any idle power savings).

I still haven't seen a convincing argument for choosing one card over another based on a 14W power difference. Or one for making idle power consumption "all one need consider". Bottom line is that once you're below a certain threshold, the differences no longer matter.

And you could probably find 25+ dual head output mobos on Newegg right now. If you can find an important mobo feature that's on 25+ motherboards that's not on one of those dual head jobbies, I'd love to hear of it. (Power hungry features aka SLI or Crossfire excluded).

[yefi]

I think someone is a little jealous of all my tankers of ale.

Let me explain there are situations where idle power cannot be ignored by dropping into standby. Everyone who has typed a word document will have been in idle for 95% of the duration, yet it does not follow that they could have been in standby for that 95%. It is only acceptable to use where there are prolonged periods of both user and system inactivity. Where that is the case, use standby and save power, but recognise that you could have been reading the SPCR forum instead of, for example, working or looking after your family.

Anyway, I never said it was going to make a great difference. It will frankly make a very small difference, but crucially the only difference that separates the cards in any analysis for a desktop system. Did I need to consider more?

And you could probably find 25+ dual head output mobos on Newegg right now. If you can find an important mobo feature that's on 25+ motherboards that's not on one of those dual head jobbies, I'd love to hear of it. (Power hungry features aka SLI or Crossfire excluded).

First of all, I didn't say dual head, I said Dual-Link. Secondly, I have already: proper ECC support. I'd love for you to find an AM2 mobo with both of these features, but it must preferably have dual lan and one must be gigabit lan. If you do, PM me and you can have one of my bootleg ales on the house!

P.S. I don't want some unreliable mobo either, it has to be good quality from a respected manufacturer.

[Chang]

Of course no one should be expected to drop into standby while typing a Word document. But I was referring to your 24/7 usage. If you're concerned about a couple pence a day, what are you doing that requires your computer to be in idle sucking up power when you're asleep, at work, or out at a pub? Dropping into standby will save many times that 14W difference. Once you regularly drop into standby, that pence a day savings turns into pence a week.

If you're pushing people to only consider idle draw, you should be pushing them towards onboard IGP. I guarantee that a X1250 IGP board + LAN card will consume much less power than any video card + dual LAN mobo. If I'm not mistaken, the maximum TPD for the entire 690G NB is under 14W.

But if you're demanding particular feature sets, be it dual link DVI (available with the ATI X1250 IGP), or dual head DVIs (as Aris wanted two posts up), or multiple display support, or hardware decode for video clips, then trying to claim that idle power consumption "is the end all, be all" is foolish. If those features negate the clear IGP power advantage, then idle power consumption is no longer the primary feature for consideration. I still argue that idle power should not be the only thing you look at when choosing a video solution.

Finally on ale, last I checked the 2400 pro can be found for 13 quid less than the 7300 GT. So you could have that Scottish ale now or perhaps save that much over a couple years and have that ale much, much later. I suspect it'd taste better now.

[yefi]

Of course no one should be expected to drop into standby while typing a Word document. But I was referring to your 24/7 usage. If you're concerned about a couple pence a day, what are you doing that requires your computer to be in idle sucking up power when you're asleep, at work, or out at a pub? Dropping into standby will save many times that 14W difference. Once you regularly drop into standby, that pence a day savings turns into pence a week.

Looking at pr0n

If you're pushing people to only consider idle draw, you should be pushing them towards onboard IGP. I guarantee that a X1250 IGP board + LAN card will consume much less power than any video card + dual LAN mobo. If I'm not mistaken, the maximum TPD for the entire 690G NB is under 14W.

I have only said don't do it where it isn't feasible. Accusing me of not pushing it therefore, is like Hitler accusing Rommel of not pushing the Wehrmacht during the North African Campaign.

Incidently, I purchased a 690G mobo for this fact. With no other peripherals attached the entire board drew 17-20W. However, the ATI 1250 displays artifaction at higher resolutions and the ECC "support" is actually only EDC. I have a Tyan Tomcat now. 27-30W draw, no IGP.

But if you're demanding particular feature sets, be it dual link DVI (available with the ATI X1250 IGP), or dual head DVIs (as Aris wanted two posts up), or multiple display support, or hardware decode for video clips, then trying to claim that idle power consumption "is the end all, be all" is foolish. If those features negate the clear IGP power advantage, then idle power consumption is no longer the primary feature for consideration. I still argue that idle power should not be the only thing you look at when choosing a video solution.

Obviously, idle power is not the only consideration--I could easily reduce it by pulling out fans, booting from a Flash card etc, but for anyone not reading Aristotle between the lines this was granted. Let me put it in indisputable terms: in ceteris paribus low idle power!

Finally on ale, last I checked the 2400 pro can be found for 13 quid less than the 7300 GT. So you could have that Scottish ale now or perhaps save that much over a couple years and have that ale much, much later. I suspect it'd taste better now.

What is that old adage about he who waits? In any case, you are probably right if the card can be had much cheaper.

[pputer]

There doesn't need to be hdmi on it. ATI has made a special DVI-HDMI converter which also carries sound, so you're unlikely to see any of the new ATI cards with an inbuilt HDMI - or so i've read anyway.

But, how much $$ is the AVI 'special' converter? Is the quality of it sufficient?

Also, how bad is the ATI drivers for this card for Linux?

I am asking for the 2600 series. Sorry, one more question: what is the difference of the 2600 Pro and 2600XT?

[~El~Jefe~]

2600 pro and xt is just a mhz increase as far as I can tell.

2600 pro runs cooler. you arent doing intensive gaming on a 2600 xt anyways, so might as well get it.

plus:

Pro sounds nice.

both are pimp for decoding 1080p

[plympton]

2600 pro and xt is just a mhz increase as far as I can tell.

2600 pro runs cooler. you arent doing intensive gaming on a 2600 xt anyways, so might as well get it.

plus:

Pro sounds nice.

both are pimp for decoding 1080p

Actually, since the XT is usually running GDDR3 and not DDR2, wouldn't an equally-clocked XT run cooler than a Pro?

Just checking, since I though GDDR3 was supposed to use a lot less power than regular DDR2.

-Dan

[nick705]

But, how much $$ is the AVI 'special' converter? Is the quality of it sufficient?

The HDMI dongle comes as part of the package, so it won't cost you any extra - as for quality, the connection is digital, so basically it either works properly or it doesn't.

[pputer]

Thanks for the info, Nick.

Does it matter which type of board you get? DDR3 or DDR4? I thought the DDR4 is probably the better option if you go for a 2600. I found a DDR4 board for $150.

Another question that I don't think was asked yet: Do any of these HD 2x00 series of ATI video graphics boards work in any Linux distro? I went to the ATI site and they don't list any drivers for Linux. I am just curious as I am building a new system and it will probably be a Windows machine but I found it interesting that there is no mention of Linux drivers for these new ATI-based boards. I thought ATI was moving towards better support in Linux but they haven't provided support for the newer boards yet?

One last question: does this board fit in smaller mid-tower cases such as the Antec Solo?

Anyway, what interests me in these ATI boards is the 65nm factor and the low power consumption which is very high for the 2900 series but very acceptable (45 watts) for the 2600 series and below.

FYI?:
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/rad ... efault.asp

[plympton]

It's in at NewEgg - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814125074

Still trying to figure out the heat/performance/power consumption between this, a 2400 pro, 2400xt, and a 2600xt with either heatpipes or passive.

Haven't found anything definitive - the Sapphire 2600XT ultimate sounds really good, but nowhere to be seen yet - the heatpipe out the backside would be great for cooling in a NSK2400 / Fusion case. I worry about passive cards like this Gigabyte next to my 2 tuners generating too much heat that doesn't move. :-/.

-Dan

[thijs]

As for the 2600XT, I am waiting for the Sapphire 2600 XT Ultimate Edition to become available (why can't Sapphire have proper images on their own site instead of the pictures of the boxes...)

[haggis663]

I was succesfully able to install my MSI-RX2600XT-E3 512mb card into an Antec NSK 2400 case without needing to modify it. The card only just fits with the lid touching the top of the heatpipes but the lid was able to close without putting undo downward pressure on the motherboard.

[jojo4u]

Does it matter which type of board you get? DDR3 or DDR4? I thought the DDR4 is probably the better option if you go for a 2600. I found a DDR4 board for $150.

Don't get GDDR4. The idle power management is currently broken so it does not clock down. I only have a german source, though.

EDIT: http://www.behardware.com/articles/675- ... -2400.html

[thejamppa]

My X1600XT seems huge overshot for my current needs. I've honestly thought getting a HD2400 PRO / XT with passive cooling. Maybe I am nuts. But since I really don't play games, but I watch a lot video's etc, the HD2400 could be better choice.

Then there are also all the HD2600 PRO / XT passive cooled, but their avaibility is so bad in Finland. ( Currently none-existing for passive cooled HD2600 as I have so far searched theu major component dealers )

[pputer]

I read the HD 2400 doesn't work as well for encoding/video. Try for a HD 2600. I just read in other places of discussions with the ATI HD 2000-series and people have major problems with them. Nvidia probably isn't any better. I'd avoid the 2400 just for that reason. I think a lot of it is Winblows and the two graphics companies not playing nice. I think they realize the new cards coming out at a time in which people are frustrated and looking for further options. It's really awful if you think about it. There isn't any other choices and thus, that is why they can do that. How come it takes eons for ATI to support Linux and eons for Nvidia to provide XP (PureVideo) drivers for their 8500/8600 cards? I'd rather not be a guinea pig for the companies but I like versatility and complete hardware.

[thejamppa]

That sapphire HD 2600 XT Ultimate does look very nice. I can always wait month or two. in 3rd Q things usually improve in Finland when it comes to components.

[Luminair]

The 2400/2600 8400/8500/8600 cards are more desirable than the fun 7300s just because of the ability to decode HD stuff. So they're in a new class of card.

It is rare to find one of those WITH passive cooling and WITH a slim half-height design. I see the powercolor ones at newegg, but they don't seem to include the half-height bracket, so I'm not sure they actually support it...