Radeon HD 4670: A perfect balance?

They make noise, too.

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TheSilentOne
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:31 pm
Location: Finland

Post by TheSilentOne » Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:31 pm

I don't know how many of you know this, but you don't have the flash the bios to check if the GPU/MEM clocks work. Easiest way is to use the CCC profiles. You can't set the right values from CCC, but you can edit the profile files with text editor.

It seems I can't attach files here so I just print contents of my Tweak.xml here. The profile files are located in
C:\Documents and Settings\%USERNAME%\Local Settings\Application Data\ATI\ACE\Profiles
First you create a new profile with CCC and save only Overdrive settings. Then you open the new profile file and set the right values. The values I list here are for Sapphire 4670 512MB. Only values you have to change should be in CoreClockTarget_0, MemoryClockTarget_0, CoreVoltageTarget_0. With this method working, I have no need flash my bios.

----------------
<Profile>
<Caste name="Graphics">
<Groups>
<Group name="Overdrive5">
<Feature name="TimeUnlocked" />
<Feature name="OverclockEnabled">
<Property name="OverclockEnabledProperty" value="True" />
</Feature>
<Feature name="CoreClockTarget_0">
<Property name="Want_0" value="16500" />
<Property name="Want_1" value="29000" />
<Property name="Want_2" value="75000" />
</Feature>
<Feature name="MemoryClockTarget_0">
<Property name="Want_0" value="50000" />
<Property name="Want_1" value="100000" />
<Property name="Want_2" value="100000" />
</Feature>
<Feature name="CoreVoltageTarget_0">
<Property name="Want_0" value="900" />
<Property name="Want_1" value="1250" />
<Property name="Want_2" value="1250" />
</Feature>
<Feature name="MemoryVoltageTarget_0">
<Property name="Want_0" value="0" />
<Property name="Want_1" value="0" />
<Property name="Want_2" value="0" />
</Feature>
<Feature name="FanSpeedProtocol_0">
<Property name="FanSpeedProtocolProperty" value="Percent" />
</Feature>
<Feature name="FanSpeedAlgorithm_0">
<Property name="FanSpeedAlgorithm" value="Automatic" />
</Feature>
<Feature name="FanSpeedRPMTarget_0">
<Property name="Want" value="0" />
</Feature>
<Feature name="FanSpeedPercentTarget_0">
<Property name="Want" value="50" />
</Feature>
</Group>
</Groups>
<Adapter name="PCI_VEN_1002&DEV_9490&SUBSYS_E880174B&REV_00_4&12A55011&0&0010A">
<Aspect name="Overdrive5" />
</Adapter>
</Caste>
</Profile>
----------------

lechuck
Posts: 86
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Location: EU

Post by lechuck » Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:34 am

TheSilentOne: Very interesting post. That would make sense, that Bios values are just the base for driver settings.
Did you check if your Sapphire cards then goes to 0.9V in idle?

TheSilentOne
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Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:31 pm
Location: Finland

Post by TheSilentOne » Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:00 am

lechuck wrote:TheSilentOne: Very interesting post. That would make sense, that Bios values are just the base for driver settings.
Did you check if your Sapphire cards then goes to 0.9V in idle?
I also seems that the setting stay on after reboot even if you don't apply the profile.
I don't have any means to check the actual voltage and don't know if it's possible with software. I have the clamp meter but I'm not going to test with it right now, but what I saw from wattage meter there wasn't any savings so it is possible the voltages don't drop.
What I read about underclocking in 4850/4870 thread, the biggest wattage saving came from underclocking the memory. But with Sapphire I can't get lower than 500Mhz :(

Matija
Posts: 780
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:17 am
Location: Croatia

Post by Matija » Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:14 am

Back on the issue of my HR-03 mounting problems... I have the first HR-03, not the rev.A or anything else. I'm having an email discussion with a really helpful and polite Thermalright representative, and he said that rev.A can indeed be mounted on the 4670. I'm still not entirely sure and I'm awaiting confirmation, but it looks like the six-hole mounting adapter is for cards such as this one. If that's the case, then I'll go and buy the adapter :)

Now if only I could find some thermal tape to reuse the memory heatsinks...

CallmeRoth
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Location: Canada

Post by CallmeRoth » Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:23 pm

Ill be ordering the HIS ICEQ Turbo 4670 tommorow. Ill be sure to let you guys know how it is. According to reviews it seems to be cooler,quieter, and faster than the referance designs, but we will see for sure. My only concern with the ICEQ cooler is it in no way contatcs the ram.

Oh and I do plan to overclock this, mainly for curiosity. It seems to handle a 10-15% overclock on the ICEQ cooler, even considering the heatsink is doing nothing for the ram.

Ksanderash
Posts: 353
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:30 am
Location: Moldova, exUSSR

Post by Ksanderash » Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:17 am

CallmeRoth wrote:Ill be ordering the HIS ICEQ Turbo 4670 tommorow. Ill be sure to let you guys know how it is.
Hey, do you have a digital multimeter over there? :D It would be nice to measure volts on it. If there is 0.9V in idle on GPU, or not. Conform to Techpowerup this card is 4W lower than a "regular" 4670 (reference?)

Matija wrote:Now if only I could find some thermal tape to reuse the memory heatsinks...
That's a destructive piece of a advice, I know :), but how about the acrylatic super glue?

maf718
Posts: 247
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:25 am
Location: England

Post by maf718 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:43 am

Ksanderash wrote: Techpowerup this card is 4W lower than a "regular" 4670 (reference?)
The "regular" was Powercolor , I doubt that one does 0.9 volts either.

lechuck
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:57 pm
Location: EU

Post by lechuck » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:22 am

But PowerColor card was measured by xbitlabs (8.7W) and for HIS card was reported in this thread idle about 13W. So perfect confusion.

Matija
Posts: 780
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:17 am
Location: Croatia

Post by Matija » Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:46 pm

Hmm. The six-hole HR-03 adapter is here, but something worries me. All the holes have small inserts, so the ones from the two unused holes will hit the PCB. I guess I'll have to file them away... :S

Ksanderash
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Location: Moldova, exUSSR

Post by Ksanderash » Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:52 pm

lechuck wrote:But PowerColor card was measured by xbitlabs (8.7W) and for HIS card was reported in this thread idle about 13W. So perfect confusion.
"Scio me nihil scire", as had said legendary Socrates. At least we do know the thing that we don't know :) And can fight for it.

ist.martin
Posts: 220
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 11:59 am
Location: Vancouver, B.C.

Biostar G31?

Post by ist.martin » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:20 pm

[quote="Ksanderash... I can't now measure amount of saved power, my G31-M7 is still at warranty service...[/quote]

Now you have me worried. What happened to your Biostar G31 mb?

Ksanderash
Posts: 353
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:30 am
Location: Moldova, exUSSR

Re: Biostar G31?

Post by Ksanderash » Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:25 am

ist.martin wrote:Now you have me worried. What happened to your Biostar G31 mb?
Missing physical MAC, 00-00-00-00... And no ADSL then. And because I had performed all measurements on it, I still can't do anything.

...
Image
Thinking of doing a temperature control circuit...

protellect
Posts: 312
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:57 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by protellect » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:10 am

After reading the whole thread twice, I'm trying to sum it all up. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

1. Most of the 4670 Cards don't fully utilize the power saving capabilities built into the reference card.

2. Most of the 4670 Cards have noisy fans [from both the thread and the newegg reviews]

3. The actual power consumption idle varies test to test, since everyone is using different testing methods.

4. The HIS card seems to be the choice card, because it can utilize more power states, and has a blower style cooler which makes less noise.

Any other comments on this?

ist.martin
Posts: 220
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 11:59 am
Location: Vancouver, B.C.

Powercolor ..

Post by ist.martin » Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:15 am

protellect:

Actually, I got the understanding that the Powercolor card is the only one that ramps the fan down a lot at low load, and is not so noisy when not gaming. Still looking at 21 dB though:

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Powe ... 70/25.html

Ksanderash
Posts: 353
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:30 am
Location: Moldova, exUSSR

Post by Ksanderash » Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:05 am

protellect wrote:After reading the whole thread twice, I'm trying to sum it all up. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

1. Most of the 4670 Cards don't fully utilize the power saving capabilities built into the reference card.
True. Because of reduction in cost tendency -- physical elements retracted.
2. Most of the 4670 Cards have noisy fans [from both the thread and the newegg reviews]
True. Again, because of reduction in cost tendency -- physical elements retracted. But not all models are suffering from this.
3. The actual power consumption idle varies test to test, since everyone is using different testing methods.
True. Do not compare different review's data between each other. And there can be inaccuracy too.
4. The HIS card seems to be the choice card, because it can utilize more power states, and has a blower style cooler which makes less noise.
I have some doubts on this statement. The cooler (though it is very effective) is not being RPM-controlled, AFAIK. And the card seems not being drastically low in power than competitors. But, well, good choise! :)

P.S. My mainboard has arrived. Now I can do tests. If anyone wants, I can measure clean (from PCI-E slot) 3.3V/12V idle consumption of my 4670, but it will be the same 12...14W, I'm afraid :(

protellect
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Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:57 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by protellect » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:16 pm

Thanks for clarifying that. I'm looking closely now at getting the Powercooler one.

Though I'm also looking at 9500GT's....

lechuck
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Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:57 pm
Location: EU

Post by lechuck » Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:49 pm

New RBE 1.18 is out! With this version, changed Saphire and Gigabyte Bios can be saved!

Now maybe Sapphire/Gigabyte users can equal HIS idle Power consumption?
Or maybe beat, if HIS can't physicaly do 0.9V and other cards can?

Matija
Posts: 780
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Location: Croatia

Post by Matija » Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:58 pm

For what it's worth, RBE 1.18 now allows me to access the fan settings tab on my Sapphire. It's set to 18% fan speed up to 50 degrees.

But I'll be installing the HR-03 over the weekend (hopefully - I need to file away the inserts on the two extra holes on the six-hole adapter), so fan speed tweaks won't be necessary :)

Not sure if I feel adventurous enough to mess around with voltages and flashing...

maf718
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Location: England

Post by maf718 » Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:29 pm

lechuck wrote:Now maybe Sapphire/Gigabyte users can equal HIS idle Power consumption?
Or maybe beat, if HIS can't physicaly do 0.9V and other cards can?
I'm still waiting for evidence that any retail card can physically do 0.9V. By looking at the BIOS settings I thought my Palit could, but measuring it proved otherwise.

If the manufacturers can save, say, 50 cents by leaving out the magic voltage control chip, what's the betting they've all done it? Especially as it's the lower end of the price spectrum and they are mainly going to be competing on price. Asus and Gigabyte even went to the trouble of saving about 10 cents by leaving out fan control on their cards. The only reason we in this thread know our cards are not running 0.9V is because we've measured them with multimeters - the average purchaser isn't going to know this or even care, what incentive is there for board partners to include voltage control?

lechuck
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Post by lechuck » Sat Dec 13, 2008 2:40 pm

I noticed on MSI 4670 page, that MSI is boasting to have:
- Low standby power consumption
- Maximum Power Efficiency with ATI PowerPlayâ„¢ Technology
Here:
http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?func ... od_no=1615

Has someone MSI 4670 card and can verify voltage drop?

Ksanderash
Posts: 353
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Location: Moldova, exUSSR

Post by Ksanderash » Sat Dec 13, 2008 3:44 pm

lechuck wrote:Has someone MSI 4670 card and can verify voltage drop?
I don't have the card so I can't state anything, but as I can see from the photo the little "magic" chip that is dealing with the feedback loop of power PWM-contoller is missing, so my forecast isn't optimistic.
Image

Matija
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Location: Croatia

Post by Matija » Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:45 am

Just as I thought - the fan connector gets in the way and I can't install the HR-03 because of it.

I've again reassembled the card with the stock cooler back on, and will probably spend the next week thinking about what to do with the damn thing. If I remove the fan connector, warranty goes bye-bye.

DAMN IT!!!

Matija
Posts: 780
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Location: Croatia

Post by Matija » Sun Dec 14, 2008 6:22 am

And now, strangely enough, manual fan speed control started working for my card. However, it doesn't want to go below 20% in CCC.

Update: I've used RivaTuner to make a fan profile. By default, the fan is spinning at 3% (?!), which is incredibly loud. By lowering that value down to 2%, I almost can't hear the fan anymore.

So, I've set the default to 1% by replacing the first lookup value (was 50-17), and the second value is 60 degrees and 29% fan speed, which should be more than enough.

I have also used the CCC profile to set the 2D clocks to 165/500 (and maybe voltage to 0.9V, no idea where my voltmeter is).

The GPU is now idling at 35-36 degrees. Used to be 37-38 with default fan speed and before downclocking.

I can probably live with this. I think I'll give up on the HR-03... Again...

maf718
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Location: England

Post by maf718 » Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:50 am

I used the profiles method above to lower my memory clock from 1000 to 500 at idle. Power consumption drops by 2 watts at the wall (with an 80+ power supply).

Only problem is that if I then switch off overdrive I get massive screen corruption and a GPU recover event. I don't normally switch it off so I should be ok.

Matija, would your fan connector problem be any better if you removed the plastic shroud around the pins? That is reversible if warranty is ever needed.

Ksanderash
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Post by Ksanderash » Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:23 am

maf718 wrote:I used the profiles method above to lower my memory clock from 1000 to 500 at idle. Power consumption drops by 2 watts at the wall (with an 80+ power supply).
Why don't you just flash a modified firmware? I have 165/250, but even with this reduction I feel that the RAM is heating up a little. The card is under +5V 80mm cooling, inaudible absolutely, like there isn't fan, but not so performing -- about 38C in idle and 75C load.

Matija
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Post by Matija » Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:35 am

maf718 wrote:Matija, would your fan connector problem be any better if you removed the plastic shroud around the pins? That is reversible if warranty is ever needed.
Knowing my luck, I'd chip the PCB or something. But I still don't think it would fit - the pins are only a little bit below the top of the shroud, and I need more space.

I've now set an even more silence-aggressive profile.

10-1
55-2
70-12

Finished watching a replay in Company of Heroes, and the fan never ramped up to 12%. If you don't mind me saying - that's f*cking awesome!

At the moment, I'm happy enough with this setup. When I feel like getting frustrated again and messing up my warranty, I'll take a soldering iron and get rid of the fan connector.

Ksanderash
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Post by Ksanderash » Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:03 am

Matija wrote:At the moment, I'm happy enough with this setup. When I feel like getting frustrated again and messing up my warranty, I'll take a soldering iron and get rid of the fan connector.
Do you know what is the advantage of our 4670? IT IS CHEAP! ;)
If you aren't happy with it, just sell it for half-price (40-50 bucks), buy new one and you are happy again! :)

Matija
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Post by Matija » Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:07 am

I paid 90€ ($120) for it. Not quite cheap :)

Ksanderash
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Post by Ksanderash » Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:38 am

Matija wrote:I paid 90€ ($120) for it. Not quite cheap :)
Ha-ha, I gave 110$ on my lovely Force3D :) HIS was for 125 bucks, and I thought that I don't need that super-mega-cooling turbine, as I definitely will change the cooling. But who knew it is not 4W idle... Dear SPCR, be closer to the common people, don't review those unobtainable reference boards ;)

Matija
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Post by Matija » Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:29 pm

Now I'm having a hard time adjusting to the near silence... Ugh... It's so weird... There's a small dog barking in the distance...

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