Help with loud fan: Gigabyte GeForce 9800 GTX+

They make noise, too.

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WeltallZero
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Help with loud fan: Gigabyte GeForce 9800 GTX+

Post by WeltallZero » Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:52 pm

Hi all,

I've bought a brand new PC, including a Gigabyte GeForce 9800 GTX+ (this one: http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/VGA ... uctID=2918). It turns out that its fan is extremely loud, even when idle; it seems to always be at 100% speed, no matter what. Needless to say, this keeps the card quite cool, but it's driving me insane (it's not just the fan sound itself; rather, it seems to vibrate and propagate the vibration to the entire PC).

I'm quite desperate, as I've brought back the PC to the shop where I bought it, and I've not been given a definite solution. From what I gather, fans usually have three-wire connections, the third being the one that controls fan speed, and this one card only has a two wire connector from the card to the fan (sorry if I'm not explaining myself too well, I'm Spanish and some of the English terms elude me right now).

One solution would be to return the card and buy a different one that does have fan speed regulation. But for that, I need to know what brands do offer speed regulation!

The other approach would be to buy a separate cooling solution, either passive or active. I was considering either a Accelero S1 Rev2 (passive) or an Accelero Twin Turbo or Accelero Xtreme 9800 (active). However, it seems like the S1 might be somewhat complicated to install and may void the warranty; and on the other hand, the active solutions might be as loud as the original fan.

I would really appreciate help from anyone with some insight or experience, with this particular card or in general. Thanks a lot in advance!

tehfire
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Post by tehfire » Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:27 pm

First of all, WELCOME TO SPCR!!!
Secondly, your English is extremely good, so I wouldn't worry about that (tu inglés es tan mejor que mi español) </embarassing>

No estoy seguro sobre tu [video card] especificamente, pero podrías intentar utilizar Rivatuner para controlar el ventilador. Es un poco complicado usar. Si necesitas ayuda, estamos aquí.

Sorry for butchering español...I'm trying to get better :oops:

WR304
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Post by WR304 » Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:14 am

That Gigabyte GV-N98XPZL-1GH is a non standard card. If you want a Nvidia 9800GTX+ card with the stock temperature controlled cooler they look like this:

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2008/0 ... cx-512mb/1

Any 9800GTX+ card that looks like that will be temperature controlled and a lot quieter at idle.

The standard 9800GTX+ card is much longer than your non standard 9800GTX+ so you'd need to have make sure you have enough space in the case for it to fit.

You could replace the cooler on your card with a Arctic Cooling Accelero S1. It's easy to fit but is likely to void the warranty. If the PC is brand new it would probably be easier to get a new card from the shop. :)

If you get the choice go for a Nvidia GTX260 instead of the 9800GTX+ as it's much better as a gaming card. :)

WeltallZero
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Post by WeltallZero » Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:57 am

tehfire wrote:First of all, WELCOME TO SPCR!!!
Secondly, your English is extremely good, so I wouldn't worry about that (tu inglés es tan mejor que mi español) </embarassing>

No estoy seguro sobre tu [video card] especificamente, pero podrías intentar utilizar Rivatuner para controlar el ventilador. Es un poco complicado usar. Si necesitas ayuda, estamos aquí.

Sorry for butchering español...I'm trying to get better :oops:
Thank you! Your Spanish isn't half bad either! Some sentences were perfect, in fact :D.
I already tried using pretty much every temperature controlling program I've found, including nVidia's own software, RivaTuner, EVGA (I think?) and more, to no avail. They just do nothing. It seems it's impossible to control the fan speed as the physical connection between card and fan needed to do so is missing.

WR304, thanks a LOT for the information. Gigabyte does manufacture a 9800 GTX+ version that looks like that, but I wonder if it will, indeed, be temperature-controlled, seeing as their other one (the one I have) isn't. Also, if one would want to change the stock coolers in that one card, how would one remove the stock cooler? It seems integrated at first glance, unlike mine that's just screwed on.

The reason why I'm not too sure about returning the card I got is that it has 1GB of integrated memory instead of the usual 512 MB, while not being overly expensive (200 euros, which may seem expensive over there but stuff is usually more costly here in Spain). In fact I haven't been able to find another 9800 GTX+ model with 1024 MB...

Another question; you mentioned my card has a non-standard design. If I went for the Accelero Twin Turbo or such, I wonder if I would I be able to install it?

Again, thanks a lot to you both for all your help. :D

Tzupy
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Post by Tzupy » Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:22 am

If your non-standard card has a 2-pin fan connector, then AFAIK the active solutions like the Accelero Twin Turbo or Xtreme 9800 won't work, since they have 4-pin PWM fans.
I suppose you could plug the PWM fans into motherboard headers, but you'd lose the control by GPU temp. I suggest the S1 with a low speed fan, a 500 rpm Slipstream should do.
You might go even passive with the S1 if you have good case airflow, but while the GPU (55 nm?) would probably be OK, the Mosfets in the VRM area could overheat.

WR304
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Post by WR304 » Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:19 am

The standard cooler on a 9800GTX+ is only held on with screws. There are some pictures of the standard 9800GTX+ cooler here:

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/ha ... iew-7.html

Any 9800GTX+ card using the stock Nvidia cooler will definitely have a temperature controlled fan.

You should be able to fit an Arctic Cooling Accelero S1 to your current card easily. So long as the four mounting holes around the GPU are in the same place it will just screw in. You'd use a low speed 120mm three pin fan connected to a motherboard header to cool it. :)

With the current Euro/ £ sterling exchange rate it would almost be worth buying a graphics card from the UK.

A Nvidia 9800GTX+ 512mb for example is £118.39 GBP

http://www.eclipsecomputers.com/product ... TXP5&af=50

At today's exchange rate of 1 GBP = 1.06764 EUR that would only cost you 126 euros. :shock:

Ch0z3n
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Post by Ch0z3n » Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:57 am

If you are changing cards, EVGA explicitly says that installing aftermarket coolers does NOT void the warranty. All you have to do it put the stock cooler back on if you have to send it back to them.

WeltallZero
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Post by WeltallZero » Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:05 pm

First of all, let me say a heartfelt thank you to all of you. This problem is driving me insane, and I'm not having much support from the people who are supposed to help me (see below). I'm pretty much lost and reading your advice is the only light in the darkness so to speak. You might think I'm exaggerating but believe me that I really appreciate it. Many thanks.
Tzupy wrote:If your non-standard card has a 2-pin fan connector, then AFAIK the active solutions like the Accelero Twin Turbo or Xtreme 9800 won't work, since they have 4-pin PWM fans.
You are totally right, and I wish I had read this message before buying an Xtreme 9800 this afternoon. I might add that I did so (on a second shop) upon recommendation of the <censored>s at the original shop, who, upon bringing them the fan, told me that it wouldn't work, and that it was my fault for not noticing that the Accelero had 4 pins while my card has 2 (noticing where? the accelero doesn't say anything of the sort in the box and even THEY didn't know!). Needless to say, now I'm stuck with a 30 euro fan I can't use. Oh, and the <expletive>s at the original shop have told me I can't return the card, or even exchange it for another, even though I bought it last week. I'm not sure that's even legal!
I suppose you could plug the PWM fans into motherboard headers, but you'd lose the control by GPU temp. I suggest the S1 with a low speed fan, a 500 rpm Slipstream should do.
That's pretty much what they suggested then, buying a passive one with a case fan in the back (that's what you are saying, right?). It sounded good in theory but coming from them, I wasn't too confident as you might guess. However, reading it recommended by you guys gives me infinitely more assurance (again, thank you) so that's what I'll do.
I'll probably exchange the Xtreme 9800 for the S1 and the case fan the day after tomorrow (as tomorrow is a national holiday here in Spain). Fortunately, the second shop does allow for exchanges, although they don't return your money.
You might go even passive with the S1 if you have good case airflow, but while the GPU (55 nm?) would probably be OK, the Mosfets in the VRM area could overheat.
I think I'll put a fan on the back of the case just to be sure; after all, I'll have 15 extra euro to spend in the second shop :P.

One thing though: they recommended me to put a 120mm fan, and this second shop only seems to have 80mm ones. Will the 80mm ones be OK? For more information on what they have, check this:
http://www.alternate.es/html/highlights ... es+de+caja&
It's in Spanish but most specs are in English.
WR304 wrote:The standard cooler on a 9800GTX+ is only held on with screws. There are some pictures of the standard 9800GTX+ cooler here:

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/ha ... iew-7.html

Any 9800GTX+ card using the stock Nvidia cooler will definitely have a temperature controlled fan.
I see. It just figures that I had to go for the one card without fan control and buy it on the lousy shop that doesn't allow refunds or exchanges. I'll have to file a complaint with consumer support at this rate.
You should be able to fit an Arctic Cooling Accelero S1 to your current card easily. So long as the four mounting holes around the GPU are in the same place it will just screw in. You'd use a low speed 120mm three pin fan connected to a motherboard header to cool it. :)
I have two questions though:
1) Don't you need to put some silicone between the VGA chip and the cooler or something?
2) As I mentioned above, would an 80mm fan be OK? It would be insufficient? Or are we talking completely different things?
With the current Euro/ £ sterling exchange rate it would almost be worth buying a graphics card from the UK.

A Nvidia 9800GTX+ 512mb for example is £118.39 GBP

http://www.eclipsecomputers.com/product ... TXP5&af=50

At today's exchange rate of 1 GBP = 1.06764 EUR that would only cost you 126 euros. :shock:
Whoa, I didn't know the pound was so cheap right now. I shoudl really have checked that too, I guess. Next time I buy a comp, I'll pick the cheap and bulky components here and the VGA and stuff over there. Then again, hopefully I won't be buying another one for several years. Still, it's good to know in case things get ugly and I have to resort to legal threats to make them return my money or something.
Ch0z3n wrote:If you are changing cards, EVGA explicitly says that installing aftermarket coolers does NOT void the warranty. All you have to do it put the stock cooler back on if you have to send it back to them.
I hope Gigabyte is similarly liberal, because with the luck I'm having I just know the card will die on me in a month :(.

I know I'm just repeating myself, but again, thanks for all the help. I hope it makes you feel good that I'll sleep a bit better tonight thanks to you all. :)

WR304
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Post by WR304 » Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:44 pm

The advantage of a low speed 120mm fan is that it will be quieter for the same amount of airfow. If you go to the "Ventiladores de caja- Estandar" tab on that online shop there are several 120mm fans listed?

120mm Fan Shop Link

Of the fans listed a Noctua NF-S12 800 120mm fan 800rpm €17 should work well. You could use a 80mm fan (or two) but they're likely to end up noisier than the single 120mm running at 800rpm. :(

You attach the fan to the Accelero S1 heatsink using zipties. There's usually an arrow moulded into the side of the case fan showing the air direction. You'd want the fan to be blowing air up onto the Accelero S1 and graphics card. :)

In order to fit a new GPU cooler you have to thoroughly clean away the original thermal paste and then apply a thin layer of fresh paste to get a good thermal contact. If you buy an Arctic Cooling Accelero S1 cooler it comes with thermal paste pre-applied (the grey square on the heatsink base).

http://www.arctic-cooling.com/vga2.php?idx=147

WeltallZero
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Post by WeltallZero » Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:10 am

WR304 wrote:The advantage of a low speed 120mm fan is that it will be quieter for the same amount of airfow. If you go to the "Ventiladores de caja- Estandar" tab on that online shop there are several 120mm fans listed?
120mm Fan Shop Link
OH, that's right! I didn't see the categories on the left and assumed that the four ones listed by default were it. Thanks a LOT again for the heads up! :D
Of the fans listed a Noctua NF-S12 800 120mm fan 800rpm €17 should work well. You could use a 80mm fan (or two) but they're likely to end up noisier than the single 120mm running at 800rpm. :(
Yeah, it seems really silent, 0.8 dB at max! :) I'll definitely pick that one up.
You attach the fan to the Accelero S1 heatsink using zipties. There's usually an arrow moulded into the side of the case fan showing the air direction. You'd want the fan to be blowing air up onto the Accelero S1 and graphics card. :)
Ah, I see! I assumed (actually, I think that's what the <beeps>s at the original shop told me) that it would be attached to the back of the case, like on the old-school PCs (it does have a grid to let the air out in the back, but no fan attached).
In order to fit a new GPU cooler you have to thoroughly clean away the original thermal paste and then apply a thin layer of fresh paste to get a good thermal contact.
On that note, what product should I use to remove it? Alcohol?
If you buy an Arctic Cooling Accelero S1 cooler it comes with thermal paste pre-applied (the grey square on the heatsink base).http://www.arctic-cooling.com/vga2.php?idx=147
Ah, I see. That should make it easier. Thanks!

Only thing is... I may have yet ANOTHER problem. :( Yeah, I'm on a roll here. You see, after buying the Accelero 9800, it seemed to me it would be too large for my VGA. As you noted earlier, it seems to have a crappy non-standard design that is quite smaller than it should be. The V1 seems to be rather large too, and I'm afraid it will physically overlap beyond the card slot cover (the one going towards the back of the case, the one you screw on, where the DVI outs are. Not sure what the technical name is in English ^^). For reference, here's my card:
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/VGA ... uctID=2918

On the other hand, just now I've seen a review here (the S1 is about halfway through the rather long page):
http://www.madshrimps.be/printart.php?articID=593
The card they use seems to have the chip (and more importantly, the screw holes) even a bit closer to the DVI outs than mine, and yet they don't have any problems installing the S1. So this gives me a bit of hope. I guess I'll see for myself tomorrow when I buy it.

Also, all of your help has given me enough confidence to try to install it on my own, as opposed to waiting for the 'tards at the original shop to do it (and probably even try to charge me).

As usual, thanks for everything. You're saving my life here. It might sound like exaggerating but spending 1000+ euros (which is a lot for my humble economy) in a computer I can't stand the noise of, was really depressing.

Tzupy
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Post by Tzupy » Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:28 am

WR304 explained well how to deal with the S1, so my suggestion is only to make sure you have BOTH a 12 cm on the S1 (zip-tied) and a back case fan (also 12 cm?).
Even if your 9800 GTX+ is 55nm it will draw around 80W of power, that heat needs to be properly exhausted. Without a back fan, the PSU fan will ramp up a lot.
That Noctua 800 rpm fan is IMO overpriced and doesn't handle backpressure well, but as a case fan or on the S1 it should be just fine. I don't see a better option at that store.
At 800 rpm it won't be silent, but quiet enough for a newcomer to SPCR. Later you may connect those fans to a fan controller and lower that rpm to under 600 rpm when not gaming, now that's going to be silent. Good luck!

WeltallZero
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Post by WeltallZero » Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:48 pm

Tzupy wrote:WR304 explained well how to deal with the S1, so my suggestion is only to make sure you have BOTH a 12 cm on the S1 (zip-tied) and a back case fan (also 12 cm?).
Even if your 9800 GTX+ is 55nm it will draw around 80W of power, that heat needs to be properly exhausted. Without a back fan, the PSU fan will ramp up a lot.
Wouldn't that be a bit overkill? I don't really play very GPU intensive games for long stretches normally, and I think the Accelero + fan (I'll leave a back cover open like the tutorial suggests) should provide even better cooling that the fan the CPU has right now, wouldn't it? I'll monitor temperatures for a while to see how it goes, and again when summer comes (my flat is on the last floor of the building so it's cold in winter and hot in summer, I'm afraid :P).
That Noctua 800 rpm fan is IMO overpriced and doesn't handle backpressure well, but as a case fan or on the S1 it should be just fine. I don't see a better option at that store.
Since I have 30 euro to spend at that shop, I guess paying a bit more isn't that bad. All together it should add up to those 30 euro.
At 800 rpm it won't be silent, but quiet enough for a newcomer to SPCR. Later you may connect those fans to a fan controller and lower that rpm to under 600 rpm when not gaming, now that's going to be silent. Good luck!
Thanks! Let's hope it's silent enough for me. I've been putting up with my old computer, which is 5 years old, so I'm not THAT exigent.

One thing though, I still don't know how to remove the remains of the thermal paste that the old fan left in the CPU... ^^

WR304
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Post by WR304 » Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:49 pm

If you compare this picture of an Nvidia 8800GTS 512m card to your Gigabyte 9800GTX+ card the GPU socket and memory appear to be in roughly the same place relative to the PCI Express slot.

Image
8800GTS 512mb with ramsinks fitted

When the Accelero S1 cooler is fitted beneath the the card it looks like the pic below. (This particular card has a Thermalright HR-11 cooler above the card also). You have to tighten the screws gradually working round them in order to make sure that it keeps a smooth contact with the GPU core. You can see how much clearance there is between the end of the Accelero S1 and the mounting plate on the left hand side of the card.

You shouldn't have any fitting worries with your card either. :)

Image
8800GTS 512mb with Accelero S1 and HR-11 fitted

To remove the thermal paste Arctic Silver Arcticlean works well:

http://www.arcticsilver.com/arcticlean.htm

If you don't have one already it could be worth fitting an exhaust case fan. That fan is to blow hot air out of your case and stop the computer overheating. Most desktop cases have one fitted as pictured below.

The fan on the Accelero S1 is just to cool the graphics card. :)

If you have a stock Intel CPU heatsink it may be worth considering replacing that with an aftermarket model too.

Image
8800GTS 512mb installed in Antec Sonata case

WeltallZero
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Post by WeltallZero » Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:50 pm

WR304 wrote:If you compare this picture of an Nvidia 8800GTS 512m card to your Gigabyte 9800GTX+ card the GPU socket and memory appear to be in roughly the same place relative to the PCI Express slot.

When the Accelero S1 cooler is fitted beneath the the card it looks like the pic below. (This particular card has a Thermalright HR-11 cooler above the card also). You have to tighten the screws gradually working round them in order to make sure that it keeps a smooth contact with the GPU core. You can see how much clearance there is between the end of the Accelero S1 and the mounting plate on the left hand side of the card.

You shouldn't have any fitting worries with your card either. :)
Let's hope so :). Thanks for the instructions!
To remove the thermal paste Arctic Silver Arcticlean works well:

http://www.arcticsilver.com/arcticlean.htm
I don't think I can get that over here that easily (or rather, at all). I've read online that alcohol works just as well, so I'll try that, being extra careful of course, unless you recommend otherwise?
If you don't have one already it could be worth fitting an exhaust case fan. That fan is to blow hot air out of your case and stop the computer overheating. Most desktop cases have one fitted as pictured below.

The fan on the Accelero S1 is just to cool the graphics card. :)
Well, pretty much in line with the rest of developments regarding this, my case DOESN'T have one. It just has the grid and the screw holes. Sigh...
The thing is, getting TWO of the 17 euro fans is something I want to avoid if at all possible (this is costing me more than I anticipated already). I'd either get one (and skip the fan case for the time being), or get two cheaper fans. Which would you recommend? Would I really have temperature problems with just one fan on the Accelero? My gut instincts tell me that the total amount of heat generated inside the case would be the same or less than it is now, so I should probably be OK, right? If not, I'd be considering some of the cheaper, slightly louder fans. These are the ones I'm considering (there are a couple 80mm ones in there BTW, although I would get 120mm ones preferently).
http://www.alternate.es/html/product/de ... hData=true
http://www.alternate.es/html/product/de ... hData=true
http://www.alternate.es/html/product/de ... ue#tecData
http://www.alternate.es/html/product/de ... ue#tecData
http://www.alternate.es/html/product/de ... hData=true
If you have a stock Intel CPU heatsink it may be worth considering replacing that with an aftermarket model too.
The CPU fan is pretty silent right now. Of course it's sitting not far from the boombox that is the current VGA fan :).

florinp3
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Post by florinp3 » Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:09 pm

I think the Scythe SFlex 1200rpm would be a good choice as a case fan. It isn't completely silent at 1200 rpm, but you can probably hook it up to a fan header on the motherboard and limit it's speed with Speedfan (or even from BIOS if your MB supports it).

Tzupy
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Post by Tzupy » Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:06 am

It would be helpful to know which case, CPU and CPU cooler you have, so we know IF you can use an 120 mm exhaust fan (you keep writing about 80 mm fans, I don't understand why), and how much cooling your system needs. IMO if your CPU isn't producing much heat, an 800 rpm exhaust fan would be just fine. If your CPU is hotter (or much hotter), go for a 1,000 (or 1,200) rpm one and try to get its speed regulated by the motherboard. But first make sure you can use an 120 mm fan as exhaust.

WeltallZero
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Post by WeltallZero » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:08 am

florinp3 wrote:I think the Scythe SFlex 1200rpm would be a good choice as a case fan. It isn't completely silent at 1200 rpm, but you can probably hook it up to a fan header on the motherboard and limit it's speed with Speedfan (or even from BIOS if your MB supports it).
Wouldn't the Coolink 1200 Basic 120x120x25 be a better solution? It costs the same and is much more silent according to the page (11 dB versus 20.1dB). Granted, it has less cooling power, but I probably don't need that much, especially in a single fan, right? Or is there something I'm missing?
Tzupy wrote:It would be helpful to know which case, CPU and CPU cooler you have, so we know IF you can use an 120 mm exhaust fan
Sure thing, here they are:
Case: http://www.appinformatica.com/torres-ca ... 3-500w.php
Motherboard:
http://www.appinformatica.com/placas-ba ... x-s775.php
CPU:
http://www.appinformatica.com/procesado ... hz-box.php
The CPU fan is the one it comes with.
(you keep writing about 80 mm fans, I don't understand why),
Probably because I don't know what I'm talking about, mostly ^^ So, we scratch the 80mm ones, right? I know they couldn't be attached to the back of my case (I just measured the distance between screw holes in the back fan grid and it's 10.5 cm, which I'm guessing is the standard for 120mm fans), but if one is needed for the Accelero itself I guess it could be an 80mm one? Again, bear in mind I pretty much don't know what I'm saying, I'm totally new to this.
and how much cooling your system needs. IMO if your CPU isn't producing much heat, an 800 rpm exhaust fan would be just fine. If your CPU is hotter (or much hotter), go for a 1,000 (or 1,200) rpm one and try to get its speed regulated by the motherboard. But first make sure you can use an 120 mm fan as exhaust.
I think a 120mm is the one, the guys at the store told me to get one. Another thing, and this is important, my motherboard has what seem to be 3-pin and one 4-pin fan connectors, but the people at the shop told me I couldn't connect a VGA cooling solution there because they're automatically regulated by the BIOS. Is that correct or just misinformation?

Also, just to be totally clear. Should I only get one fan, where should I attach it for best results, the back of the case or the Accelero S1? Would I be better off with one good such fan, or with two cheaper ones, one in each place?

I'll be leaving for the shop in half an hour at most, and I'll check the thread before leaving, so if anyone is lurking, this would be a good time to reply. ^^ Thanks!

Tzupy
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Post by Tzupy » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:31 am

IMO you should get two 120 mm 800 rpm fans and run them at full voltage, or 1,000 rpm if you want to be very safe with temperatures.
Both the case and the Accelero need such fans. Your CPU Q8200 draws about 60W maximum, so 800 rpm for back fan should be fine.
If you can regulate the case fan from the BIOS, get an 800 rpm for Accelero and 1,000 - 1,200 rpm for the case.

WeltallZero
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Post by WeltallZero » Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:29 pm

OK, I'm back. I got the Accelero S1 R2 and a couple of 120mm fans, a 1000rpm one and a 1200rpm one IIRC. Right now I'm in the middle of installing the Accelero onto my VGA; or rather, starting. One thing though, is that I have to put some heatsinks onto the memory chips and the voltage regulators. I got the memory located but I'm not too sure if the voltage regulators are what I think they are. Do they look pretty much like four black cubes with "R80" written on top of them? They're right next to some condenser-looking cylindrical thingies with "1500 2.5v" on them. I can try to find an old digital camera to take a pic of the card if necessary to clarify.
I'd really appreciate a reply ASAP. I'll be refreshing this page in hopes that anyone is online. Thanks!

WeltallZero
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Post by WeltallZero » Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:51 pm

Another question while I wait. I'm removing the old thermal paste from the VGA's CPU. Should I rub until it's spotless, or is it ok if there's still a thin layer of the hardened stuff, as long as it's flat? I'm not sure how well the new coat of paste will adhere to that, but it's taking ages to remove it all off and I'm starting to worry about damaging the processor (though I'm being extra gentle).

WeltallZero
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Post by WeltallZero » Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:44 pm

I've uploaded a pic of my board (sans stock cooler) here:
http://personal.auna.com/weltallzero/Stuff/Board.JPG
You can see how much of the old thermal paste I've removed (so you can tell me if it's enough) and hopefully you could point to me what the voltage regulators are on that pic. Thanks a bunch everyone!

WR304
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Post by WR304 » Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:56 pm

I can't view your picture. Is the link working for you? You can use the code to display linked pictures in your forum posts.

As your Gigabyte card doesn't appear to have any heatsinks fitted on the RAM or MOSFETS to start with it's probably not necessary to put heatsinks on them. The MOSFETS are the small chips next to the large cubes. :)

Image
MOSFETS on Gigabyte 1gb 9800GTX+

You want to make sure that the GPU core is clean. Rather than rubbing at the chip you should be able to soak at least some of the old thermal compound off. If you don't have any Arctic Silver Arcticlean then you can use high purity Isopropyl Alcohol which you should be able to get from a drugstore or pharmacy.

If you don't have that either then carefully wipe away as much of the original paste on the GPU core as you can. Make sure you don't touch the GPU core or base of the Accelero S1 heatsink with your fingers (very important) and just put it together. As you've taken it apart that won't be any worse than putting the stock cooler back on. :)

That should still work but not as well as cleaning everything properly first. The important part is to get a good thermal contact between the GPU and heatsink. If you do that and the temperatures aren't great you'll need to make a note to reseat the heatsink properly when you have some cleaner and more thermal paste. :)
Last edited by WR304 on Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:05 pm, edited 3 times in total.

WeltallZero
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Post by WeltallZero » Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:32 pm

WR304 wrote:I can't view your picture. Is the link working for you? You can use the code to display linked pictures in your forum posts.
The image was in a link. It should work, at least it worked for me. In any case, the image you provided was even clearer :)
As your Gigabyte card doesn't appear to have any heatsinks fitted on the RAM or VRMs to start with it's probably not necessary to put heatsinks on them. :)
The VRMS aren't the large plastic squares. They're the small chips to the right of them.
Well, I think I can put heatsinks onto six of them (out of 8 ). Might as well do so.
You want to make sure that the GPU core is clean. Rather than rubbing at the chip you should be able to soak at least some of the old thermal compound off. If you don't have any Arctic Silver Arcticlean then you can use high purity Isopropyl Alcohol which you should be able to get from a drugstore or pharmacy.
I was able to remove the rest of the paste and get the chip clean and pristine, but...
If you don't have that either then carefully wipe away as much of the original paste on the GPU core as you can. Make sure you don't touch the GPU core or base of the Accelero S1 heatsink with your fingers (very important) and just put it together.
Oh man! I think I just messed up then, I WAS touching the chip directly :(. Rubbing it, as a matter of fact. Damn, I hope I haven't messed up the card!
As you've taken it apart that won't be any worse than putting the stock cooler back on. :)

That should still work but not as well as cleaning everything properly first. The important part is to get a good thermal contact between the GPU and heatsink. If you do that and the temperatures aren't great you'll need to make a note to reseat the heatsink properly when you have some cleaner and more thermal paste. :)
Man, as it is right now, I'll be content if the card still even works. And the worst thing is that I have no one to blame but myself, and I deserve it... :(

WR304
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Post by WR304 » Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:18 pm

I doubt you've damaged the card. If you've touched the GPU core with your fingers it leaves an oily residue behind that will affect the cooling performance of the heatsink. The ramsinks are unlikely to stick either as the 3M adhesive tape needs a clean surface to attach to. Rather than putting it together now you're probably best off leaving it until tomorrow and cleaning it up properly with the right equipment first. :)

You should be able to get some high purity Isopropyl Alchohol fairly easily. :)

To clean away the old thermal paste you should really have soaked it off the GPU core with a small amount of cleaner (Arctic Silver Arcticlean/ isopropyl alcohol etc) and then gently wiped it away using a lint free cloth, or I like to use a new unused kitchen sponge cut into small pieces.

Image
Cut an unused kitchen sponge into small pieces for cleaning thermal paste from the GPU/CPU and heatsinks

Once all the thermal paste is gone give the GPU core a wipe with a damp sponge (damp with water) and then dry it using a lint free cloth or kitchen paper. After doing that it should look clean with no dust or particles left on the GPU core.

The important part when cleaning it is not touching the thermal surfaces and not damaging the card. The small silver chips around the GPU core are very delicate and easy to break off.

With the pre-applied Arctic Cooling pad on the Arctic Cooling Accelero S1 you would then screw it back together. Otherwise you would apply a thin layer of thermal paste to the GPU core before assembling it.

Keep the card on a clean surface (ideally an anti static bag or something non conductive like cardboard, kitchen paper etc). Also, don't touch the gold PCI Express connector with your bare hands if you can help it. When moving the card hold it by the edges of the PCB or the metal PCI plate to reduce any static electricity risk.

I'm sure it's still ok but it is worth being careful too. It really sucks breaking expensive hardware. :(

Edit: Your picture link is working now. There was far too much material left on that GPU core. It should look like the 8800GTS 512mb picture I posted above with no heatsink attached. Remember that to be properly clean it means getting rid of any residue from handling the card also.

WeltallZero
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Post by WeltallZero » Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:51 pm

Well, it seems that I didn't break my card after all, yay! :). It's working fine. However, temperature seems quite high, for some reason. Under heavy load it stays at about 85ºC, even with the case open (will test again with the case closed). Would that be normal under this setting? More importantly, would it be healthy for the card on the long term?

Edit: I'm going to sleep now, as it's 2:28 AM over here and I've got to get up at 6 AM tomorrow. And I slept like 3 hours last night too, wee. More info tomorrow after work. Thanks all!

WeltallZero
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Post by WeltallZero » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:20 am

Back from work :)
After checking some more, it seems the temperature is getting better as time goes on. When I first started testing after installing it, it went to a scary 90º+, which prompted me to stop testing. Then after some more testing, it seemed to stabilize at 85º, then 82º. Today I have to make an effort to get it to break 80º (PhysX demos and high-demand games at the same time and such). I'm wondering if it'll drop any lower, and if it's an OK temperature, still.

Further, the fan I have attached to the Accelero might be a bit weak. In the end I bought the Scythe one recommended above, but I put that one on the back of my case. The one I put on the Accelero itself was the Xilence one. I'm thinking of returning it and getting, instead, one of the following:
1) A single, more powerful fan.
2) Two more fans, instead of one.
3) The Turbo module for the Accelero, which is in stock and rather cheap (7 euro).
I'll spend some time later on comparing noise levels and cooling powers and such, but today I'm taking a vacation from this. :D

Thanks a LOT for all your help, seriously, guys. I'll keep you informed!

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Post by Tzupy » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:36 am

For a fanned S1 (with an 1,400 rpm fan, right?) your temps are much too high IMO, there's something wrong going on.
I doubt the Turbo module (2x 80 mm fans at 1,500 rpm) would provide better cooling than a single 1,400 rpm 120 mm fan.

The VRMs are both the 'large plastic squares' (actually inductors) and the 'small chips right of them' (actually MOSFETs).
The MOSFETs need cooling, they can get quite hot. With the stock fan they didn't need heatsinks since they received a lot of airflow.

WeltallZero
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Post by WeltallZero » Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:53 pm

Tzupy wrote:For a fanned S1 (with an 1,400 rpm fan, right?)
Yes, although it does feel as if it's not moving that much air, compared to the Scythe one. That's one reason I was thinking of changing it.
your temps are much too high IMO, there's something wrong going on.
I doubt the Turbo module (2x 80 mm fans at 1,500 rpm) would provide better cooling than a single 1,400 rpm 120 mm fan.
The one thing is that, of the four copper (or whatever) tubes that run throught the grid, it only really reaches the two center ones. The ones at the sides seem to not get much cooling and do feel warmer even at a distance (the grid prevents me fron touching them directly).
The VRMs are both the 'large plastic squares' (actually inductors) and the 'small chips right of them' (actually MOSFETs).
The MOSFETs need cooling, they can get quite hot. With the stock fan they didn't need heatsinks since they received a lot of airflow.
Oops... well, I don't think I can attach heatsinks to them without removing the whole Accelero, since it seems to be one piece. And removing it would mean I'd have to get more thermal compound to reattach it later, right?

Since they're to the side they don't receive much air now, that's true, but conversely, the stock cooler only blew air to the center, leaving them with not a lot of refrigeration either. On the other hand, I wonder where exactly the graphic card temperature is measured, i.e. where the sensor is. If it's on the chip (which seems the logical thing to do), the voltage regulators being hot, while not a good thing in and of itself, wouldn't make the temperature seem high, right?

I'm thinking of reattaching the cooler closer to that side of the card, so it cools the two rods on that side and the VRMs. The bad thing is that the rod on the far other side would get almost no cooling, and the GPU core wouldn't get as much airflow either...

I'd also be interested in the side effects of having this much temperature. Are we talking occasional decreased 3D performance, shortened GPU life, or flat out "it could burn out at any time"? My old 6200 was pretty much at 90º most of the time on 3D applications, and is still living...

WeltallZero
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Post by WeltallZero » Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:41 am

I'm back to it again. I've done several tests. The thing I don't get is, I tried pure passive with the case open (no fans), just as a test. I executed the PhysX demo, and within less than one minute the temperature rose to 98ºc and the computed pretty much crashed :S. The Accelero itself felt warm, even hot, to the touch, so at the very least it seems that it's conducting heat properly. However, I read reviews of people who use pure passive Acceleros with high-end GPUs and get 50-60º under load. I just can't understand why there's such a big difference.

I'm trying to attach both 120mm fans to the Accelero. I would really need to know several things, like:
1) If I remove the Accelero to put heatsinks to the voltage regulators, can I reattach it again using the same thermal compound it came with, or would I need to clean and apply some third party compound?
2) How critical are the voltage regulator heatsinks?
3) Anything else you might contribute, including answers to questions on my previous post.

Thanks for all the help, as usual!

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Post by Tzupy » Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:26 am

1) IMO you should use new quality thermal compound after thoroughly cleaning the existing one. And don't put too much, more isn't better.
2) Depends on the card, without knowing how hot they get it's hard to tell. They are supposed to tolerate upto 125C, but they easily reach such temps.
3) When you'll attach both fans to the Accelero the whole contraption might get a bit heavy, potentially lessening the contact with the GPU core.
4) You should have adequate heatsinks for the MOSFETs (and memory too) in the S1 package, don't you?

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