AMD New Radeon 5870, 5850

They make noise, too.

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alecmg
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AMD New Radeon 5870, 5850

Post by alecmg » Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:34 am

I was following information on AMDs new RV870 videocards. Today the information is unveiled, hopefully some tests also. I will open with the expected specs

HD5870
825MHz core
1.3 GHz (5.2 GHz) 1 or 2 GB GDDR5 memory
1600 SP
80 TMU
32 ROP
2.1 G transistors
330 mm2 chip size

Expected power consumption 180W load and 27 W(!) idle
(Looks like they finally learned how to underclock GDDR5?)

HD 5850
725 MHz core
1GHz (4Ghz QDR) 1GB GDDR5 memory
1440 SP
72 TMU
32 ROP
Expected power consumption 170W load and 27 W idle

The chip is one hell of a beast, expected to be 60% faster on average than 4870, sometimes up to 100%
5850 has part of SP turned off to sell faulty chips
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Post by alecmg » Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:35 am

The Radeon HD 5870 1GB should sell for $399 at launch, while Radeon HD 5870 2GB should sell for $449. At the same time, the slower Radeon HD 5850 with 1GB memory will sell for $299. The launch date for all three cards is September 23rd in Europe whereas in the US we are talking about the 22nd.
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Post by CA_Steve » Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:27 am

Seems like a major step backwards in load power consumption compared to the HD4xxx.
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Post by gb115b » Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:10 am

i like the idle power draws though....!

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Post by alphabetbackward » Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:26 am

Here's to hoping the 5670 will be better in idle power usage.

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Post by kater » Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:05 am

The 170W and 180W figures might as well be TDP. It's kinda hard to accept that a 40nm chip, even a powerful one, would draw way more power than its 55nm counterparts.

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Post by CA_Steve » Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:51 pm

At this point, all we can do is wait and find out. On the other hand, these GPU vendors have been known to do really wacky things. :D
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Post by alecmg » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:56 am

first shots of PCB without cooler
czechgamer
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Post by Scoop » Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:45 am

kater wrote:The 170W and 180W figures might as well be TDP. It's kinda hard to accept that a 40nm chip, even a powerful one, would draw way more power than its 55nm counterparts.
So they should just concentrate on reducing power consumption? I think AMD and Nvidia have quite a different view on it. Die shrink means faster chips while consumption stays the same or goes up slightly as there's headroom with two pcie-connectors.

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Post by Andru » Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:49 am

Any idea when the "HTPC version(s)" will be released? I mean 5670/5770 or something, successor to the 4670/4770...? Did the 4670 come hot on the heels after the 4850/4870 of the current generation...? Can't remember.

I'm not a gamer really but looking for a video card that can play 3D games, too --- and I really prefer low power consumption when idle or in 2D mode. Would be perfect if the 5850/5870 had really low consumption in desktop and when idle, too. The ATI PowerPlay is a mystery to me, too...

Pertaining to "2D" and "desktop" modes ... I guess Windows 7 (and Vista?) actually uses a 3D mode for the desktop? Is it so? Would it mean that there is "idle" consumption only when the computer is really idle?

I'm running Windows XP still (for the retro/pre-2000 games, I don't play newer games at all), on an Athlon X2 4850E with 780G and integrated HD3200 graphics - and while it runs LEGO Star Wars quite OK, something more powerful would be nice - as long as it has sane consumption figures in desktop/2D.

Getting a 5000-series means that I'll have to switch my PicoPSU 120W for something beefier, though (I guess).

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Post by rpsgc » Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:50 pm

Meh... it's too big to fit inside the Solo :(
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Post by Blitos » Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:39 am

rpsgc wrote:Meh... it's too big to fit inside the Solo :(
But you can always trust your Dremel :P

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Post by Kaleid » Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:42 am

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Post by rpsgc » Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:57 am

Blitos wrote:But you can always trust your Dremel :P
I don't have one... and I really don't feel like mauling my case.
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Post by alecmg » Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:13 am

Even though it will hurt sales of 48xx and 4770, AMD promises to release next midrange cars in October along with 5870X2
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Post by psiu » Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:25 pm

So....is the 5670 going to be as powerful as a 4850 with the power draw of a 4350? That would rock.
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Post by rpsgc » Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:08 pm

Maybe there is still hope. It's seemingly 17mm shorter (0,07in) than the GTX200/4870X2/etc. Still, I don't know if even then it would fit inside a Solo.


*crosses fingers*

EDIT: Apparently not, as those stupid plastic vents make it longer.

Also (take it as you will),

Image
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Post by Mats » Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:05 pm


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Post by kater » Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:53 pm

Image
The fist big load is Furmark, the second lower is 3Dmark06, which apparently is not able to stress the card to the max.
15W in idle is simply amazing for such a card, wow. One can wonder how low 4770 would go if it could slower its memory chips.
Let's now pray for improved drivers, a shorter but still sexy 5850 or lower with the same batmobile cooler. A batcard :D

Sorry, couldn't resist :D
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Post by Terje » Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:20 pm

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/ha ... ew-20.html
-----
The temperatures we saw weren’t exactly earth-shattering but they were particularly good when compared to other ATI cards from the last generation. What was even more impressive was the fact that unlike every high performance reference ATI product we can remember, the HD 5870 is dead quiet. It isn’t silent per se but you would be hard pressed to find a quieter fan on a reference GPU. This coupled with good temperatures is a testament to the low heat output of the core.
-----

Kind of nice to hear someone with the same experience that I have. I see all these accustics benchmarks of the 4870, but having owned two of those, one very early production sample, and one much later, I know that they are not very silent. The core on the 4870 heats up for nothing and the fan spins up, cools down, spin up, cools down...

And no, it is not a very silent fan :(

Without a non-standard cooler like the Accelero (which I have used) or sapphire vapor-x (which I have not used but people say is great) the 4870 is horrible, but I am sure they get nice results when they bench over shorter periods in an open cabinet.

I pray that the 5870 is really as good as they say here.

Load noise is a bit less critical as long as it is somewhat stable. Always crank up the sound a bit or put on a headset when gaming anyway, although my opinion on that is very likely to change if we get a lot of gpgpu software forwards that taxes the gpu more.

The idle power is really nice of course. From http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3643&p=26
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Post by rpsgc » Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:10 am

You will want to watch out for clearance, this video card clocks in at a full 10.75" inches long to the edge of the red vents on the back.
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Post by Shadout » Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:20 am

I pray that the 5870 is really as good as they say here.
Generally I dont have much faith in the acoustic judgment in the average GPU tests (although Hardwarecanuck is well above average). Most of them call it silent if it doesn't sound like a jet plane during load.
Personally I want it to be reasonable quiet (obviously not silent) during load as well. Depending on the game I might not even play with sound on, so nothing which can drown the noise.

It does sound nice if the 5870 acoustics are an improvement over older cards of course.

Anandtech seems to get very different results:
At load, the picture changes entirely. The more powerful the card the louder it tends to get, and the 5870 is no exception. At 64 dB it’s louder than everything other than the GTX 295 and a pair of 5870s. Hopefully this is something that the card manufacturers can improve on later on with custom coolers, as while 64 dB is not egregious it’s still an unwelcome increase in fan noise.

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Post by Terje » Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:41 am

Shadout wrote: Anandtech seems to get very different results:
At load, the picture changes entirely. The more powerful the card the louder it tends to get, and the 5870 is no exception. At 64 dB it’s louder than everything other than the GTX 295 and a pair of 5870s. Hopefully this is something that the card manufacturers can improve on later on with custom coolers, as while 64 dB is not egregious it’s still an unwelcome increase in fan noise.
Yes, I noticed that as well.
I am really looking forward to seeing how an Accelero work on this thing and if there is a much problems with the VRM cooling as the 48xx cards. I fear the worst given that power consumption at load is worse than ever, but we can always hope.

If nothing else maybe there is a vapor-x version from sapphire soon with some better cooling on the VRMs.

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Post by Terje » Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:48 am

Terje wrote:
If nothing else maybe there is a vapor-x version from sapphire soon with some better cooling on the VRMs.

Sweet! Just after I posted that, I found
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2 ... r-x-card/1

Lets hope that one is just around the corner and that it is as good as everybody say the 48xx version is!

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Post by ryboto » Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:31 am

wow, idling as low as a 3870? hopefully the lower end cards show the same idling characteristics.
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Post by MoJo » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:36 am

I will be nice if those idle power figures appear in retail cards. As we have seen in the past, review samples seem to have an odd way of performing better than the ones we get to buy.

Not much mention of other power saving measures like being able to disable the video card and just use on-board video for 2D stuff. Some laptops do it, but no desktop cards so far. I hope they do make it available soon, and then I'll have a reason to buy a new mobo too.
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Review overload

Post by Kaleid » Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:05 am

Last edited by Kaleid on Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by line » Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:55 pm

MoJo wrote:I will be nice if those idle power figures appear in retail cards.
Yeah, I hope so too.
Not much mention of other power saving measures like being able to disable the video card and just use on-board video for 2D stuff.
Clarkdale's integrated graphics should do it, but I haven't seen it demonstrated yet. I just hope the scope of support will be broad enough to include all modern cards. It would be a shame, for example, if we discover in late Q4 that the 5000 series needs to undergo a PCB revision to be compatible.

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Post by psiu » Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:44 pm

I thought this was extremely interesting especially for us here (from the Anandtech review):
Finally, while we’re discussing the monitoring chip, we may as well talk about the rest of its features. Along with monitoring the GPU, it also is a PWM controller. This means that the PWM controller is no longer a separate part that card builders add themselves, and as such we won’t be seeing any cards using a 2pin fixed speed fan to save money on the PWM controller. All Cypress cards (and presumably, all derivatives) will have the ability to use a 4pin fan built-in.
Awesome :D

Can't wait for the 5670 to come out now :P
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Post by MoJo » Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:58 pm

line wrote:
Not much mention of other power saving measures like being able to disable the video card and just use on-board video for 2D stuff.
Clarkdale's integrated graphics should do it, but I haven't seen it demonstrated yet. I just hope the scope of support will be broad enough to include all modern cards. It would be a shame, for example, if we discover in late Q4 that the 5000 series needs to undergo a PCB revision to be compatible.
Yeah, I got a 4870 soon after they were released (needed a new card) and have been disappointed by the lack of power saving features that were promised. It's a damn good card when I need some power, but that's about 5% of the time.

I'll wait to see what happens I guess. I'm tempted to maybe even go back to on-board graphics now that they are actually pretty good performers. I find I play games a lot less now anyway. I was planning on building a new Windows 7 system with an SSD and low power consumption is a major goal.
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