Not all 5750's are equal

They make noise, too.

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Gohan
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Not all 5750's are equal

Post by Gohan » Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:11 am

Just a little word of warning for you folks.

I picked up a HD 5750 made by Powercolor. Once install I noticed that it was idling at 33 Watts, this seemed on the high side so I returned it and got a Sapphire 5750.

Installed it and it's pulling 16 Watts.

Not sure if this was a one off or the BIOS design from Powercolor was at fault, but I thought it was worth noting.

smilingcrow
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Post by smilingcrow » Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:29 pm

I had the same issue with a PowerColor Radeon a few years ago and returned it. I decided not to buy their products again and looks as if I was wise.

frostedflakes
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Post by frostedflakes » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:48 pm

People have had this issue with other ATi cards as well, idle power consumption can vary a lot depending on the manufacturer's implementation of PowerPlay. Some use more aggressive power saving settings at idle. Kind of frustrating, would be nice if ATi standardized this or something.

Techno Pride
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Post by Techno Pride » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:01 am

Is this the fanless Powercolor version:?

Gohan
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Post by Gohan » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:33 am

No it's the one with the modified AC cooler.

smilingcrow
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Post by smilingcrow » Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:11 am

frostedflakes wrote:People have had this issue with other ATi cards as well, idle power consumption can vary a lot depending on the manufacturer's implementation of PowerPlay. Some use more aggressive power saving settings at idle. Kind of frustrating, would be nice if ATi standardized this or something.
Some companies don’t even bother at all and run the clocks at full speed at idle; the Powercolor I returned didn’t change clock speeds. Also some companies don’t bother implementing fan speed control either.
It’s so hit and miss and I wish AMD insisted that companies implemented these basic features before they were allowed to use the Radeon name for marketing purposes as it tarnishes the brand name in my eyes.
Microsoft insist on 64 bit driver support before they’ll certify a driver for Win7 and also Vista I think so AMD should play hardball and weed out the riff raff.

Is there a similar issue with some nVidia cards not supporting the lower power states?

flapane
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Post by flapane » Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:15 am

Did you tried downclocking-volting with ati tray tools?

maf718
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Post by maf718 » Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:45 pm

The main issue with these mid to low end ATi cards is where the board "partners" leave out the chip that lowers the voltage on the fly, thus saving a few cents on manufacturing costs. The clock speeds can usually be corrected in the bios, but the voltages cannot because there is no physical way for the card to lower the voltage at idle, and to all intents and purposes Powerplay is crippled.

It usually works out that the boards that follow the reference design fully implement Powerplay, and those with redesigned/simplified PCB's are much less likely to (but it depends on the manufacturer). I agree with the poster above that AMD should get tough, and only allow boards out that support all of the advertised features including Powerplay. It would save them having to put disclaimers like this one on their website on the 5750 specifications page:
ATI PowerPlayâ„¢, ATI Avivoâ„¢ and ATI Stream are technology platforms that include a broad set of capabilities offered by certain ATI Radeonâ„¢ HD GPUs. Not all products have all features and full enablement of some capabilities and may require complementary products

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Post by smilingcrow » Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:28 am

I installed an XFX HD 5750 512MB today and at idle it’s looking good:

HD 2350 64MB 58W
HD 4670 512MB 62W
HD 5750 512MB 67W

Fan Control works great and at 20% I can’t hear it over the current background noise level.
Clocks at idle are 157/300 GPU/RAM according to CCC with temp at 44C with the fan at 20%.

flapane
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Post by flapane » Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:30 am

total sys consumption... 5w more of 4670 is not bad at all, but I would try downvolting gpu in 2d mode.

Penfold
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Post by Penfold » Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:10 am

techPowerUp have reviewed 3 different 5750 brands, and their excellent Power Consumption charts show the Powercolor board drawing singificantly more at idle as well.

On the other hand the Powercolor board had the lowest wattage at load, between the 3 cards.

trueg
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Post by trueg » Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:38 am

This is a bit worrisome. =(

I was thinking of replacing my HD 4670 with a PowerColor HD 5750 Passive. I would sure like to know if the situation is any better with the passive version vs. the non-passive one mentioned above.

It would be a major blunder not to down clock when idling with a passive card. I could see them thinking that people might not notice with an active cooling solution since heat isn't really a problem.

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Post by smilingcrow » Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:31 pm

smilingcrow wrote:I installed an XFX HD 5750 512MB today and at idle it’s looking good:

HD 2350 64MB 58W
HD 4670 512MB 62W
HD 5750 512MB 67W

Fan Control works great and at 20% I can’t hear it over the current background noise level.
Clocks at idle are 157/300 GPU/RAM according to CCC with temp at 44C with the fan at 20%.
Later I noticed that to support Fan Control I had to enable ATI Overdrive in Catalyst Control Centre after which the card idles at 300/1,000 MHz and power consumption increases by 7 to 10W.
See - viewtopic.php?t=56382&highlight=

flapane
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Post by flapane » Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:11 pm

Did you try ati tray tools with manual downvolting/downclocking/fan control in 2d/3d?

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Post by smilingcrow » Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:41 pm

flapane wrote:Did you try ati tray tools with manual downvolting/downclocking/fan control in 2d/3d?
I couldn't get it to work with the card for fan control at all.

Penfold
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Post by Penfold » Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:46 pm

Techno Pride wrote:Is this the fanless Powercolor version:?
Today I received my HD5750, which is the fanless Powercolor one. While I am not able to measure watts on it, I was pleased to see it automatically clocks down to 157 Mhz core/300 Mhz memory in 2D mode.

Kaleid
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Post by Kaleid » Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:27 am

If you check the bioses on this page:
http://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/inde ... &memSize=0

Download them, and open them up in RBE you can see whether they'll downclock or not.

I checked a few, and the one's that should be avoided are:
Gigabyte (750/1150 all the time, only this bios setting), VTX3D (memory always @ 1150), same with Powercolor and Diamond.

Good:
Asus, XFX 1024MB (my own 512MB checks OK too), MSI, HIS.

Didn't check the Sapphires..also note that many of the manufacturers have many models.

Penfold
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Post by Penfold » Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:34 am

I downloaded RBE (Radeon BIOS Editor) to see what I could find about my (passive) PowerColor HD5750.

I fired up GPU-Z and saved my GPU BIOS to a file, which I opened with RBE. This is what I found:

Clock info 00
GPU: 700 MHz
RAM: 1150 MHz
Voltage: 1.1V

Clock info 01
GPU: 157 MHz
RAM: 300 MHz
Voltage: 0.95V

157/300 is the speed which the card operates at in 2D mode. Does this mean I can be sure it also downvolts to 0.95V?
Last edited by Penfold on Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

flapane
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Post by flapane » Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:35 am

You can check that under ati tray tools

Kaleid
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Post by Kaleid » Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:39 am

From what I've experienced clock speeds are much more important in 2d than voltage. This with 4850, 4770 and 4830 cards...power draw has been measured from the wall.

If it downclocks to 157/300 then it should save power.

Penfold
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Post by Penfold » Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:22 am

I am not able to use Ati Tray Tools it seems, it crashes my comp every time I try to start it.

However, comparing my GPU BIOS to the PowerColor one found in Kaleid's link, it seems not all their HD5750 come with the same BIOS (which is no surprise I guess). Overall there seems to be two dominating "2D mode" clock settings among the different manufacturor HD5750's, namely:

GPU: 400 MHz
RAM: 1150 MHz
Voltage: 0.95V

and

GPU: 157 MHz
RAM: 300 MHz
Voltage: 0.95V

I guess the powerhungry (in idle) PowerColor HD5750 reviewed by TechPowerUp used the former BIOS (it was a actively cooled card). My passive card uses the latter. Maybe someone else with a PowerColor HD5750 can share their BIOS numbers?

danimal
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Post by danimal » Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:59 am

thanks for the feedback on the passively cooled powercolor.

i personally don't care what it draws at idle, because the fanless cooling is worth paying extra for... a few more cents a year for less noise makes it a winner.

the real question is, does the overclocking work well, lol

steppinwolf
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Post by steppinwolf » Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:01 pm

Penfold, thanks for posting BIOS info from your PowerColor AX5750 1GBD5-S3DH (passive cooled). Being such a new card it's difficult to find any in-depth information. I need to build my new system over the holidays and I want a passively cooled 5750 so there's no other choice at the moment.

My computer will be in 2D mode most of the time, so your numbers give me confidence for cooler operating temperatures.

nomoon
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Post by nomoon » Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:42 pm

Powercolor now has a "Go! Green" version of their fanless 5750 on their website. However, both versions list the following in their feature set:
* ATI PowerPlayâ„¢ power management technology7

o Dynamic power management with low power idle state
o Ultra-low power state support for multi-GPU configurations

---- snip ----
7. ATI PowerPlayâ„¢, ATI Avivoâ„¢ and ATI Stream are technology platforms that include a broad set of capabilities offered by certain ATI Radeonâ„¢ HD GPUs. Not all products have all features and full enablement of some capabilities and may require complementary products
It's not obvious what the differences are. The produce comparison tool on the Powercolor site doesn't show any differences. I haven't seen the Green version for sale anywhere yet.

Jason

jtcb
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Post by jtcb » Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:23 pm

Is this the one you are talking about? How do you like this card? I am planning to get it just because it is fanless. I don't game, but watch steaming video on the web, watch dvd movies, tv, and surf the web. Is this good enough or overkill?

Image

nomoon
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Post by nomoon » Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:57 pm

Here's the Go! Green version. I've only seen the regular Powercolor fanless version as of Jan 20, 2010.

kater
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Post by kater » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:12 pm

I'd say 5750 is massive overkill if you're not gaming. For all your surfing, browsing, office, HD & TV needs you can safely go with 4550. GB has a passive 4550 with HDMI, DVI and DSUB. The only possible problem could if you want Display Port as I haven't seen any 4550 with DP. But, there may be some other models out there that are not sold where I live.

jtcb
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Post by jtcb » Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:34 am

kater wrote:I'd say 5750 is massive overkill if you're not gaming. For all your surfing, browsing, office, HD & TV needs you can safely go with 4550. GB has a passive 4550 with HDMI, DVI and DSUB. The only possible problem could if you want Display Port as I haven't seen any 4550 with DP. But, there may be some other models out there that are not sold where I live.
Please list all possible options for me. Good that I ask this question here.

kater
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Post by kater » Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:56 am

Assuming, again, you're not going to play even moderately demanding 3D games, I'd look for cards based on the following chipsets:

Radeon - 4350, 4550, 4650 and 4670.
Of these 4550 seems to be a sweet spot. 4670 might be too pricy. Definitely go with passive versions. Don't go back to 3xxx series - hotter, draw more power, not cheaper.

Nvidia - GT210, GT220, 9400GT, 9500GT. GT2xx are still overpriced, especially compared to comparatively strong (or rather weak hehe) Radeons. 9600GT is too strong, and GT240 is v expensive. Don't go back to 86xx series - too old, hot etc.

I don't know your budget, but for your needs I'd simply go with a cheap, passive Radeon 4550 with HDMI and lowest amount of memory. Bear in mind that newer models may have better I/O options, like HDMI or Display Port. If possible go for DDR3 rather than DDR2. Not that it will change a lot, but it's still preferred.

Here's a v nice table with lotsa data on these cards :) Courtesy of Xbit Labs, who also have v nice VGA tests.

Image

jtcb
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Post by jtcb » Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:25 am

Thanks kater.

I am prepared to buy the 5750 I pictured above so lets make that my budget. Can you choose the best one for me that won't overkill and with passive cooling? I assume the higher MHz and memory the better and faster the card will be. I watch lot of steaming videos and I don't want to see choppy video. I see all of the below don't have DX11. I understand many online steaming video uses some form of decoding that might slow down the quality of the video.

To be honest, I seldom play any games anymore and definitely not 3D ones. I might still play NES Rom and some older online games.

I also plan to watch and record TV shows on the computer. Does All-in-Wonder still exist? Is it better to have a seperate card for TV tuner or a combo card?

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