GTX 460 launched today

billdcat4 · Post by **billdcat4** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:23 pm

tima wrote:
billdcat4 wrote:You're right, you do not seem to be allowed to set fan speeds lower than 40% in MSI Afterburner. Maybe its possible using Rivatuner, I'm going to check.
I couldn't get Rivatuner to work with the 258.96 drivers.

The 40% minimum fan speed is hard-wired into the BIOS, AFAIK. IIRC, the beta Afterburner lets you set a fan speed < 40%, but when I activated it, it went to 40%.

Maybe using a resistor on the fan's power cable itself is a work-around.

The cooler certainly seems capable of maintaining good temps with a lower fan speed. @40% I'm getting 31c idle and 70C stress load. Considering that a normal gaming load is much less stressful, the fan should be able to spin at a much less audible speed.

crypt0r · Post by **crypt0r** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:30 pm

I have *heard* that this BIOS allows 0-100% fanspeed. There are also other BIOSs out other this, unless the other sources are the same as this. I haven't used this, so use at your own risk.

http://forums.vr-zone.com/8393667-post121.html

amstel · Post by **amstel** » Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:35 am

Are all GTX 460 1GB high pitch whining free?

AZBrandon · Post by **AZBrandon** » Sun Aug 29, 2010 7:03 pm

amstel wrote:Are all GTX 460 1GB high pitch whining free?

I don't think anyone can guarantee they "ALL" are, but I have seen many people including on the folding forum saying they noted their new 460's not whining, while the older generation cards did. It does seem promising.

kater · Post by **kater** » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:00 am

AXLE GeForce GTX 460 1 GB (Ace Edition) has just been revied by techpowerup. The card features AC Twin Turbo but due to faulty / unadjusted BIOS spins the dual fans at the default 40%, resulting in banshee-like aural treat. The tester claims he was able to play with the BIOS and tweak the fan down to (unrealistic) 2% (from the def 40%), resulting in the same temps. Under load, he slowed the fan down to 15%, producing a comfortable 76 degrees.
I'd say good effort by Axle, flawed with a major fan speed blunder. C'mon guys, a great, tried & tested fansink and you left the card with this kind of speed?
A, also, GTS450 CuCore by Asus was spotted. No details on the number of PCI-E 6pin connectors (<150W?). As always Asus claims some dreamy numbers on the CuCore fansink performance. And as usual the contraption will prolly disappoint, especially given the default cooler's great performance (meaning GTX460). Of, and the GPU looks like it's in the back, again. Kinda dumb.

crypt0r · Post by **crypt0r** » Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:03 am

MSI 460 HAWK spotted:

http://www.h-online.com/priceinsight/eu/a560436.html

780MHz stock core! It seems to have a price premium over the 1GB cyclone, but who knows if that'll translate to prices elsewhere.

crypt0r · Post by **crypt0r** » Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:31 pm

The HAWK is for sale on newegg. $250 + $8 shipping, ouch!

Das_Saunamies · Post by **Das_Saunamies** » Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:19 am

+1 happy Gainward GTX 460 1GB GLH owner.

The card is gutsy, draws little extra power over reference and the cooler is pleasantly quiet and tries its best to push the hot air out of my case.

All in all a true champion, and would you look at how compact it is on an mATX board: http://a.imageshack.us/img838/5229/koneyleis.jpg

kater · Post by **kater** » Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:12 pm

Hawk reviewed on techpowerup. Although I do NOT believe other sites than SPCR describing a card as quiet (not to mention silent*), I'd say the review kinda confirms that Hawk series are indeed the next best thing to good aftermarket coolers combined with well researched & manually controlled fans.

* I just luuuv how reviewers claim "this card is very very silent, much more silent than my previous one, so silent that I can't hear it over my Tt 1000W PSU, a RAID of Barracudas and my box cooler on OCed CPU - folks, this card comes highly recommended for your HTPC project!"

crypt0r · Post by **crypt0r** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:01 am

Haha, kater, I know exactly what you mean. I'm rather confused about this card so far. Most of the reviews show that it's as loud or louder than the Cyclone (which is apparently louder than the Gigabyte.) The SPCR users rate the Twin Frozr II as very quiet on other cards, though. Is this because the other cards run the fan < 40%? Does anyone know if the other quiet Twin Frozr II cards run at < 40%? I'm having a really hard time deciding between the HAWK and the Gigabyte.

Here are some HAWK reviews:

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_460_HAWK/

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/3495/m ... index.html

http://www.guru3d.com/article/msi-gefor ... wk-review/

http://ht4u.net/reviews/2010/msi_n460_gtx_hawk/

danimal · Post by **danimal** » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:51 pm

crypt0r wrote:http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/3495/m ... index.html

it looks like the hawk is in the upper half of the pack, at 66db? perhaps there was a problem with the sample they tested, because that's not quiet at all.

i have the copper version of that msi twin cooler(golden eagle), i got it on a 465 that i unlocked to a 470, and overclocked the cr*p out of... the card was not a good overclocker; the cooler was mounted loosely, it would move around easily on the gpu.

i tried to fix that by replacing the tim, and filing down the mounting posts slightly... it helped, but not enough, so i lapped the cooler, which had an uneven finish, with milling marks in it... not a real high quality piece.

it still wasn't right, so i lapped the fermi gpu chip itself, which had a giant crater in the center of it... i got most of the top edge sanded down, then gave up and mounted the cooler again... the idle and overclocked temps weren't much better, but in actual gaming it was more reliable, and the average temps came down slightly.

after 3 hours of extreme punishment, i was poking around inside the case while the pc was on, and shorted out something on the card

a pretty dumb move for an electronics/computer tech, $310 down the drain... it now boots with a 3-second whining noise, and the picture has lines in it.

you'll probably never in your life hear of anyone ever lapping a fermi, i have some pics of it that i'll post sometime... i was getting more and more pissed off the entire time that i owned the card, and after i grenaded it, i went out and bought a couple of asus gtx460 top cu cards... so far it looks like they are reliable at 900mhz, and the cooler doesn't slop around on 'em... i'll probably never buy another msi video card.

nervx · Post by **nervx** » Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:02 am

i have the 1GB evga 460GTX with reference cooler. it's quiet but theres a bit of woosh noise since the fan cant run any lower than 40%. i think for most people it's not noticeable but for the OCD here it is.

the good news is according to the evga boards a bios update is coming so the fan will run at 30%! the 10% reduction should be enough to get this card truely quiet.

kater · Post by **kater** » Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:03 am

Pity Nvidia's bios utilities are not as friendly and easy to use as e.g. the RBE tool. Or not?

tim851 · Post by **tim851** » Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:26 am

Das_Saunamies wrote:+1 happy Gainward GTX 460 1GB GLH owner.

The card is gutsy, draws little extra power over reference and the cooler is pleasantly quiet and tries its best to push the hot air out of my case.

I just got this card myself. Well, the regular GS, not even the GLH.
Two options:

1) My card's fan is defective.
2) You are deaf.

It is so loud, it's ridiculous. I've verified that the fan is at 40%. That translates to 1740 rpm. Which can never be silent. But the noise level is surprising! I have to bring the 120mm BlackSilent Pro on my CPU heatsink up to >1200 rpm to be even audible, it's not until it's maximum 1700 rpm that it partially drowns out the GPU cooler. Which, while technically probably louder, is the accoustically preferable setup right now, since the whoosh-noise is preferable over the low whine of the GPU.

I bought the Gainward fully aware that it's not quiet, but this is upsetting. I think the last card I had that was comparably loud was a GeForce4 Ti nack in 2003 or so.

Anyway, I got the Gainward for its mounting holes only, planning to mod an Accelero S1 onto it. But I'd like to test a card for a few days before I void my guarantee (since when have GPU makers started to put stickers onto screwheads like PSU makers do...?) and these are gonna be some hard days for me.

Das_Saunamies · Post by **Das_Saunamies** » Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:29 am

Personal insults really are the way to bring out your point, especially when you're making claims with a different version of the card in a different setup. But hey, be my guest, everyone should be rude on the internet, right.

Mine doesn't have any whining to it, it's just a smooth, typical fan sound I can hear bounced back by the concrete wall behind my case. Sorry if yours didn't turn out pleasant, but how about you concentrate on that fact.

nervx · Post by **nervx** » Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:34 am

ntavlas wrote:
Some observations: the stock cooler looks like a good candidate for a fan swap: if it manages to cool the card quietly out of the box, it`s almost guaranteed that with a custom, quiet fan it will be inaudible when idle.

how would you do a fan swap with these? the fan that comes in the reference cooler is screwed directly to the heatsink via small plastic clips.

tim851 · Post by **tim851** » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:47 am

Das_Saunamies wrote:Personal insults...

Oh geez, how was my post insulting? I'm sorry I don't put a damn smilie after every line that isn't a scientifically objective statement. I was just making a point about how loud my fan is by insinuating you are deaf, which you clearly are not.

Man, it sure is easy to be rude on the internet, but apparently it's also easy to be a wuss. See, there's your personal insult.

gvblake22 · Post by **gvblake22** » Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:53 pm

To anyone who is interested, I just noticed Prolimatech just came out with an adapter kit to fit the MK-13 to GTX 460. Who knows how much it will cost or who will carry it though...

kater · Post by **kater** » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:01 pm

nervx wrote:... how would you do a fan swap with these? ...

Get a fan of your choice, in proper size, remove the "case" (the square thing around the fan) by cutting the four arms connecting it to the fan's hub. Use double sided adhesive tape or a blob of silicone / weakish glue to mount the hub to the radiator's core. Or leave 1 arm a wee longer to put a screw thru it.

gvblake22 wrote:To anyone who is interested, I just noticed Prolimatech ...

I guess with a bit of effort and a few readily available tools most ppl could copy this design or make sth similar to have a ghetto adapter.

Also, it seems that Setsugen's backplate would be easily modified to handle GTX460. Now if there was anyone out there who could provide me with a free sample of GTX460 I will be more than happy to report back on that.

gvblake22 · Post by **gvblake22** » Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:58 pm

kater wrote:
gvblake22 wrote:To anyone who is interested, I just noticed Prolimatech ...
I guess with a bit of effort and a few readily available tools most ppl could copy this design or make sth similar to have a ghetto adapter.

Very true, it doesn't seem overly complicated. I sent out a few e-mails to different e-tailers that carry the MK-13 and only heard back from FrozenCPU so far. Jeff Constable, their Purchasing Manager, said "we should have them in stock in about a week."

doveman · Post by **doveman** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:51 am

Can you actually upgrade Nvidia drivers, as opposed to the ridiculous ATI procedure where you have to:
1) uninstall everything
2) reboot in Safe Mode and run Driver Sweeper to remove all the bits that the ATI uninstall didn't uninstall
3) reboot in normal mode and install new driver
5) reboot again and hope it's all worked?

I'm seriously interested in the 460 as opposed to the 5850 as it's quite a bit cheaper (been waiting ages for the 5850 to come down in price). Obviously quiet cooling is a major consideration, but easy driver upgrades would be a nice change from ATI.

danimal · Post by **danimal** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:28 pm

some people advise using a driver cleaner program for nvidia drivers, but i've never had to do it.

i don't know if a single 460 is equal performance-wise to a 5850, but 460's are kind of noisy, they generate some heat.

rhuebner · Post by **rhuebner** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:06 am

My EVGA 460 has a reference fan setup which is quieter than the leafblower external exhaust version they also make, but was still way too loud due to the card's stupidly high minimum fan speed setting of 40%.

But there are two software solutions now, without requiring an aftermarket cooler or a fan mod. EVGA has released updated BIOS versions for their various 460 models that lower the minimum fan speed to 30%. That was enough to make the card tolerably quiet (still audible, but low enough to ignore fairly easily).

And for those who want to go even lower than 30%, or with other brand cards that are still stuck with 40%, the NiBiTor BIOS tweaking utility is currently undergoing final testing for the new ability to edit the minimum speed setting to whatever you want. I've helped them test and got my minimum set to 10%. Turns out my card has a hardware minimum speed of 20% so I can't go any lower, but that's fine, as 20% is effectively silent now (meaning the card blends into the noise floor of my slow case fans and drive, and I can just barely hear them a foot away). And the card's automatic fan control adopted the new limit without problems, now automatically adjusting the speed between 20% at idle to about 50% at max load.

The initial 40% minimum was just stupid, there was absolutely no need for it since the card does such a great job of ramping down clocks and voltages at idle. Even at 20% fan speed, my card is consistently pegged at my ambient internal case temp of about 31C at idle.

kater · Post by **kater** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:20 am

That is v good news! Especially the Nibitor settings. So basically there'd be no need to use aftermarket coolers and also v little need to pay for more expensive verions of the card (e.g. MSI Hawk or GB Windfart). Just get the cheapest reference card and mod the bios. Cooooool.

Given the VGA's default cooler is quite effective and the card's v low idle power consumption, one can only wonder why they ("they" as in "evil dudes") have set the min RPM at a high 40%. And one cannot but think it's the company's way of ensuring all cards sold worldwide will have a 0% probability of overheating, under any conditions. As in "we recommend you run your 4650 on a 450W PSU just to be sure".

It'd be awesome if any Gainward users could try it. Gainwards seem to be the cheapest and most widely available cards around here. Also, they have this nice custom shortish PCB. And if all esle fails, Gainwards have "square" mounting holes scheme.
It'd also be pretty cool if any GB Windfart owners would play with their bioses to see how this nice dual fan cooler copes with lowered RPM. If it can, then it's truly a killer combo.

Das_Saunamies · Post by **Das_Saunamies** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:56 am

I'm personally done tweaking BIOS' for no reason (my 460 GLH doesn't bother me), but Gainward has a new BIOS out (20-09-2010) for the 460 GLH and I'm bugging them to put up the release notes for it so we could know if improved speed control is included. Current limit is a hard 40% you can't get past with Afterburner or GW's EXPERTtool.

Das_Saunamies · Post by **Das_Saunamies** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:35 am

Gainward answer came super-fast:

the bios update is necessary with the latest NVidia driver 260.63 together to fix some compatibility problems.

The Minimum FanSpeed for the GTX460 is 40%.

I haven't noticed any problems, but I guess I'll flash. It's a bit poor that they don't allow <40% as the cooler could certainly handle it, but since I'm not bothered, I won't be tweaking it.

kater · Post by **kater** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:46 am

C'mon, do it for humanity. Since you're going to flash it anyway, why not see if the 20%-30% tweak works with your card? Pretty please?

doveman · Post by **doveman** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:11 pm

danimal wrote:some people advise using a driver cleaner program for nvidia drivers, but i've never had to do it.

i don't know if a single 460 is equal performance-wise to a 5850, but 460's are kind of noisy, they generate some heat.

But do you still have to uninstall, reboot, install, reboot or can you just install the new drivers and reboot once?

Das_Saunamies · Post by **Das_Saunamies** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:31 pm

doveman wrote:
danimal wrote:some people advise using a driver cleaner program for nvidia drivers, but i've never had to do it.

i don't know if a single 460 is equal performance-wise to a 5850, but 460's are kind of noisy, they generate some heat.
But do you still have to uninstall, reboot, install, reboot or can you just install the new drivers and reboot once?

I've only had to reboot once with the 460. Before, with the 8800 GTS 512, the new driver installations would hang on reboot unless you uninstalled, installed and only then rebooted, but none of that with the 460.

danimal · Post by **danimal** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:19 pm

same with my 460's, just install right over the old drivers, and reboot once.