Apperently Shuttle has a Wireless 802.11b/g module that hooks up nicely to their SFFs (and there's a miniPCI slot) and I recently found better digital TV tuners that connects to firewire (and there's some PCIe versions coming soon). So that settles it for me. I'm getting a SD11G5 because I can live with the onboard audio.
I sympathize with you guys however. IMHO, PCIe will probably not be that standard that is need for this kind of radical switch before it's time for new machines utilizing Yonah etc. They could've waited 'til the next generation. However, if the motherboard manufacturers doesn't make the switch then maybe the card manufacturers never will either.
Computex : Shuttle Pentium M
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
IMO, looking at the whole package, i cant really complain based soley on the PCI-e 1x slot. it has absolutely everything else everyone has ever hoped for in the next generation ZEN shuttle box.
there are only really 2 things i could possibly see people wanting to put in it anyhow.
1. a video tuner card. and while yes it would be nice to have the video card and video tuner card of your choice seperate, you can always slap in a pci-e 16x ATI AIW card for your tv tuner needs.
2. mabey a better sound card. although personally the built in one sounds good enough for 99% of people out there. and while this may not be good enough for everyone, there ARE ways to get better sound quality by going through a source outside the computer.
a wi/fi card isnt needed because shuttle makes one for it that doesnt take up an expansion slot.
granted its sorta a waisted expansion slot at this point because there really isnt anything out there to put in a pci-e 1x slot yet. but i think the fact that shuttle basically gives you EVERYTHING you could possibly want to begin with, its not really that big of a deal.
im definatly going to buy one thats for sure. i wanted to get the old ZEN but i couldnt live without a graphics expansion slot. this one has one, and pretty good onboard sound. honestly even if the second expansion slot was PCI, i dont think id put anything in it anyhow.
the only thing i want to know now is WHEN will it be available??? someone earlier stated about a week ago in september, but still i havnt seen it anywhere on shuttles webpage, or anywhere in the states. you'd think shuttle would have sent out advanced shipments to all the major online reviewers to get the hype up about it by now if it was supposed to be comming out any day now.
there are only really 2 things i could possibly see people wanting to put in it anyhow.
1. a video tuner card. and while yes it would be nice to have the video card and video tuner card of your choice seperate, you can always slap in a pci-e 16x ATI AIW card for your tv tuner needs.
2. mabey a better sound card. although personally the built in one sounds good enough for 99% of people out there. and while this may not be good enough for everyone, there ARE ways to get better sound quality by going through a source outside the computer.
a wi/fi card isnt needed because shuttle makes one for it that doesnt take up an expansion slot.
granted its sorta a waisted expansion slot at this point because there really isnt anything out there to put in a pci-e 1x slot yet. but i think the fact that shuttle basically gives you EVERYTHING you could possibly want to begin with, its not really that big of a deal.
im definatly going to buy one thats for sure. i wanted to get the old ZEN but i couldnt live without a graphics expansion slot. this one has one, and pretty good onboard sound. honestly even if the second expansion slot was PCI, i dont think id put anything in it anyhow.
the only thing i want to know now is WHEN will it be available??? someone earlier stated about a week ago in september, but still i havnt seen it anywhere on shuttles webpage, or anywhere in the states. you'd think shuttle would have sent out advanced shipments to all the major online reviewers to get the hype up about it by now if it was supposed to be comming out any day now.
no way, ive had this name in online games since 1996. Originally misspelled the main character from "Privateer 2" which was "Ser Aeries" as "Sir Aris" because in the game it was never actually written, only pronounced. and around 1999-2000 time frame while playing tribes it was shortened down to Aris.aristide1 wrote:Hey Aris, you used my name.
I should have gotten a copyright.
I don't really agree with your logic Aris, except for the fact that they wasted an expansion slot. Let's look at what this shuttle is geared towards...
It's way more expensive than their other lines, so it's not really for people who just want to surf. Who would pay premiums to do that?
It's not really for gaming, because again, the price is very high and an athlon 64 would perform better. Also, the power supply is fairly low in wattage, which might pose some power draw issues with high end video cards.
It uses very low power and is near silent. Could be set to run 24/7 without issue. Power supply is not an issue. Price is not an issue. Yes - all things that are important for Home Theater PC users. And what, above all others, do Home Theater people need? At least 1 useable expansion - for a tuner, for a sound card, whatever.
Yep, this system has no audience.
It's way more expensive than their other lines, so it's not really for people who just want to surf. Who would pay premiums to do that?
It's not really for gaming, because again, the price is very high and an athlon 64 would perform better. Also, the power supply is fairly low in wattage, which might pose some power draw issues with high end video cards.
It uses very low power and is near silent. Could be set to run 24/7 without issue. Power supply is not an issue. Price is not an issue. Yes - all things that are important for Home Theater PC users. And what, above all others, do Home Theater people need? At least 1 useable expansion - for a tuner, for a sound card, whatever.
Yep, this system has no audience.
well the first thing i was thinking when i read your reply was "how does he know its so expensive" cause ive been looking for it for the last couple weeks and havnt seen it anywhere, not even advanced reviews. just a few asian sites that show what it looks like and whats under the hood.
its a waisted expansion slot yes. but only for now. eventually card makers will make pci-e 1x cards. at which time this whole issue will become a mute point.
im going to buy it, for casual internet use and some gamming. sure an a64 would give me a little better performance in 3d aplications, but 90% of gaming performance comes from the video card you choose, and since theirs a pci-e 16x slot, you can get basically any high end card and throw it in there. albiet you may need to mod the case to improve airflow a bit to keep it from overheating in it depending on the card you choose.
as for power draw, it wont be a factor because of the limited amount of space you have to put stuff in it. its been shown time and time again in other shuttle boxes that 200-300watts is plenty when all you can plug into that tiny thing is 1 graphics card, 1 hard drive, and an optical drive. especially considering the fact that the cpu on this system will draw such a small amount of power.
and the only two things you can come up with to need in an expansion slot, and one of them (the video tuner) you can get cards to put in the pci-e 16x slot to do it.
so really your ONLY complaint is you wont be able to use your fancy sound card. and mabey price, which i still dont know how much it is as you never said.
and if you talk to any real audiophiles, no sound card for computers is good enough sound quality to be used anyhow. and the only way to get really good sound from your computer is to port it out a digital line to an external sound unit. which you can do with this system cause it has a built in digital out source for the audio.
as for the other 99% of the world, the onboard sound that comes with it is plenty good enough for casual listening and gamming purposes. sure it wont have all the bells and whistles, and you wont be able to spout off that cool new name from creative labs every year when they release a new card to make yourself look cool in front of your friends. but it will get the job done.
bottom line for me, its what i was hoping out of the last shuttle zen and so much more. it will definately find its way into my home, and many others i believe.
its a waisted expansion slot yes. but only for now. eventually card makers will make pci-e 1x cards. at which time this whole issue will become a mute point.
im going to buy it, for casual internet use and some gamming. sure an a64 would give me a little better performance in 3d aplications, but 90% of gaming performance comes from the video card you choose, and since theirs a pci-e 16x slot, you can get basically any high end card and throw it in there. albiet you may need to mod the case to improve airflow a bit to keep it from overheating in it depending on the card you choose.
as for power draw, it wont be a factor because of the limited amount of space you have to put stuff in it. its been shown time and time again in other shuttle boxes that 200-300watts is plenty when all you can plug into that tiny thing is 1 graphics card, 1 hard drive, and an optical drive. especially considering the fact that the cpu on this system will draw such a small amount of power.
and the only two things you can come up with to need in an expansion slot, and one of them (the video tuner) you can get cards to put in the pci-e 16x slot to do it.
so really your ONLY complaint is you wont be able to use your fancy sound card. and mabey price, which i still dont know how much it is as you never said.
and if you talk to any real audiophiles, no sound card for computers is good enough sound quality to be used anyhow. and the only way to get really good sound from your computer is to port it out a digital line to an external sound unit. which you can do with this system cause it has a built in digital out source for the audio.
as for the other 99% of the world, the onboard sound that comes with it is plenty good enough for casual listening and gamming purposes. sure it wont have all the bells and whistles, and you wont be able to spout off that cool new name from creative labs every year when they release a new card to make yourself look cool in front of your friends. but it will get the job done.
bottom line for me, its what i was hoping out of the last shuttle zen and so much more. it will definately find its way into my home, and many others i believe.
SD11G5 PDF available
I did some poking around and found Shuttle's web page for this system.
http://sys.us.shuttle.com/G5_1100.aspx
A PDF spec sheet is there as well. I don't know if this is news to anyone, but I thought it might be interesting.
http://sys.us.shuttle.com/G5_1100.aspx
A PDF spec sheet is there as well. I don't know if this is news to anyone, but I thought it might be interesting.
Re: SD11G5 PDF available
nice find.neerlent wrote:I did some poking around and found Shuttle's web page for this system.
http://sys.us.shuttle.com/G5_1100.aspx
A PDF spec sheet is there as well. I don't know if this is news to anyone, but I thought it might be interesting.
heres some sections of text that popped out to me as i read through the page
"the XPC G5 1100 has been tested to support the latest high-end graphics cards including the NVIDIA GeForce 7800GTX"
- doesnt look like power will be an issue with any video card you wish to put into this thing. although id still be a little worried about keeping certain graphics solutions cool inside this case without modding the case.
"Built-in support of consumer electronic displays allows consumers to plug into native high-definition displays and output to either 720p or 1080i resolutions."
- this is interesting, i have a widescreen tv with 720p and 1080i support that i could never get to look quite right when i output my computer display to it. it would be awsome if they got this fixed and i could do this easily. plug my HDTV into the built in DVI port, and my monitor into the DVI port from a video card.
look what i found when i started punching in some numbers in the address bar
http://sys.us.shuttle.com/BuildXPC.aspx?id=1153#
its obviously not complete yet because of the limited choices. but it gives you an idea of whats to come.
http://sys.us.shuttle.com/BuildXPC.aspx?id=1153#
its obviously not complete yet because of the limited choices. but it gives you an idea of whats to come.
This barebones is likely going to be $500. True, nothing is set in stone, but I think that's accurate considering the niche of a pentium M desktop. That is about 50 percent more than the other already overpriced barebone units. If money was no issue, yeah a lot of people would probably choose this one over an athlon. But it is going to be for a lot of people.
Compounding that is the expansion issue. For $500, I shouldn't have to "live with" anything. A big company might be coming out with a good pcie product in a year, but big companies don't really make audiophile sound cards (and yes, computer sound can and does compete with stand alone units that are MUCH more expensive.) I've heard the argument before, and it doesn't make sense. Computer noise is not an issue. Idiots who pay $1k for a receiver are the ones who make these claims. It's the same people who pay hundreds for snake oil cables that might, at best, get them a 3% improvement over something like bluejeans for 200% more money. Rightmark objectively proves that audiophile soundcards block noise EXTREMELY well. The discrepency between the DACs on onboard sound vs my egosys Juli@ is definitely worth being concerned about if you're serious about sound and having an HTPC be your all-in-one.
A big company (creative) may release a sound card in the next year for pcie, but even that is a stretch. Companies like m-audio and egosys and RME are probably not going to feel the incentive for a long long time yet. No sound card or tuner, even at 24/192 and 1080p streams, saturates the bandwidth that good ol PCI provides. The advantages of pcie over pci are not drastic. A reduction of pin length, seperate power and bandwidth allocations, these are all fine and dandy but haven't really "fixed" anything with regards to the next gen video and audio formats.
And you say I can get external solutions. Well, once again, these products tend to be rarer, more expensive, and not even as good as internal solutions. Believe me, I've researched for a usb or firewire sound card for this comp, but they were all overpriced and inferior to more common internal solutions. So...I would't want to settle for any of this stuff and have a bunch of stuff hanging out of my computer. I mean, what's the point of SFF if you have do that. It would seem even worse with this unit's external PSU.
Alright, I'll stop talking now... But at least try to understand why someone like me kinda wishes shuttle wasn't so dumb, because you're right - this unit has everything - looks, features, performance, silence. After a while, you just get frustrated when companies who are really you're only hope for something magnificent do stupid shit (i.e. intel choosing preshott over pentium M architecture for desktop).
Compounding that is the expansion issue. For $500, I shouldn't have to "live with" anything. A big company might be coming out with a good pcie product in a year, but big companies don't really make audiophile sound cards (and yes, computer sound can and does compete with stand alone units that are MUCH more expensive.) I've heard the argument before, and it doesn't make sense. Computer noise is not an issue. Idiots who pay $1k for a receiver are the ones who make these claims. It's the same people who pay hundreds for snake oil cables that might, at best, get them a 3% improvement over something like bluejeans for 200% more money. Rightmark objectively proves that audiophile soundcards block noise EXTREMELY well. The discrepency between the DACs on onboard sound vs my egosys Juli@ is definitely worth being concerned about if you're serious about sound and having an HTPC be your all-in-one.
A big company (creative) may release a sound card in the next year for pcie, but even that is a stretch. Companies like m-audio and egosys and RME are probably not going to feel the incentive for a long long time yet. No sound card or tuner, even at 24/192 and 1080p streams, saturates the bandwidth that good ol PCI provides. The advantages of pcie over pci are not drastic. A reduction of pin length, seperate power and bandwidth allocations, these are all fine and dandy but haven't really "fixed" anything with regards to the next gen video and audio formats.
And you say I can get external solutions. Well, once again, these products tend to be rarer, more expensive, and not even as good as internal solutions. Believe me, I've researched for a usb or firewire sound card for this comp, but they were all overpriced and inferior to more common internal solutions. So...I would't want to settle for any of this stuff and have a bunch of stuff hanging out of my computer. I mean, what's the point of SFF if you have do that. It would seem even worse with this unit's external PSU.
Alright, I'll stop talking now... But at least try to understand why someone like me kinda wishes shuttle wasn't so dumb, because you're right - this unit has everything - looks, features, performance, silence. After a while, you just get frustrated when companies who are really you're only hope for something magnificent do stupid shit (i.e. intel choosing preshott over pentium M architecture for desktop).
i do understand your complaint.
and normally id be a little more sympathetic. but then were talking about an integrated sound solution which is basically an Audigy 2 sound card. thats pretty damn good audio quality. thats probably the level of sound quality 99% of all gamers out their use.
it would be one thing if it was some cheep low quality sound solution, but its not. there are very few sound cards out there that out do this integrated sound solution.
and they give you just about every kind of I/O interface you would want. the only thing i saw it didnt have that i would sort of like to have had would be a coax spdif out port. but i can live with the optical one.
and if it is $500, i can live with that price tag.
1. its brand new. and everything that just comes out is a little overpriced.
2. it has alot of built in "brand name" extra's, like the sound solution, and the gigabit ethernet
and normally id be a little more sympathetic. but then were talking about an integrated sound solution which is basically an Audigy 2 sound card. thats pretty damn good audio quality. thats probably the level of sound quality 99% of all gamers out their use.
it would be one thing if it was some cheep low quality sound solution, but its not. there are very few sound cards out there that out do this integrated sound solution.
and they give you just about every kind of I/O interface you would want. the only thing i saw it didnt have that i would sort of like to have had would be a coax spdif out port. but i can live with the optical one.
and if it is $500, i can live with that price tag.
1. its brand new. and everything that just comes out is a little overpriced.
2. it has alot of built in "brand name" extra's, like the sound solution, and the gigabit ethernet
found the correct address to customize the G5 1100.
http://sys.us.shuttle.com/BuildXPC.aspx?id=1155
starting price is $1,200, with options to customize/upgrade.
that price includes the complete system, keyboard/mouse. but no monitor or speakers.
http://sys.us.shuttle.com/BuildXPC.aspx?id=1155
starting price is $1,200, with options to customize/upgrade.
that price includes the complete system, keyboard/mouse. but no monitor or speakers.
Can you SPCR do a review ASAP please, when available
http://eu.shuttle.com/en/DesktopDefault ... ead-11520/
http://eu.shuttle.com/en/DesktopDefault ... ead-11520/
There was an official press release on the european site yesterday aswell.
http://eu.shuttle.com/en/DesktopDefault ... ead-11678/
Nothing new except for a silly slogan and this: "...MSRP of 416 Euros (without VAT.)"
http://eu.shuttle.com/en/DesktopDefault ... ead-11678/
Nothing new except for a silly slogan and this: "...MSRP of 416 Euros (without VAT.)"
-
MikeC
- Site Admin
- Posts: 12285
- Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
- Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
- Contact:
Yessuh! Working on it this very minute.Owen1978 wrote:Can you SPCR do a review ASAP please, when available
http://eu.shuttle.com/en/DesktopDefault ... ead-11520/
