I'm lost! SFF: quiet, small, no games?

[burkeytonk]

I'm looking for a small form factor. These are my requirements:

- Quiet! (obviously)
- Small
- No games, but want to run Beryl on Ubuntu optimally and will make heavy use of apps like Photoshop and Flash (development, not just youtubing). because of linux i should stay with nvidia.
- will install 2-4gb ram
- will multitask like a motherf, playing videos/music, downloading torrents, using photoshop, running a web dev server in the background, etc.

I'm guessing this might end up being Shuttle, but I'm way out of the hardware loop and have no idea what line/CPU yields the best performance to heat, etc. I think core 2 duos have the general consesus these days?

Can anyone recommend a good mobo/cpu/case combo? Any advice appreciated. Thanks in advance!

[NeilBlanchard]

Greetings & welcome to SPCR,

What is the smallest motherboard that can support 4GB of RAM? And for quietness, you might want to consider something like the Antec NSK3300 or 3400.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811129016

[dragmor]

Hows Via's graphic drivers in Linux?

I recently bought 4 SK22G2 SE for Office PC's. Their quiet (only the PS and ICE fan), simple to build and cheap (AM2 socket). 3600X2, 1GB, 80GB HD, DVDRW, idle at ~45w, load ~80w.

I know they take 2GB of ram, just not sure about 4GB. Also there are only 2 ram slots.

[zds]

I'm looking for a small form factor.

...

Can anyone recommend a good mobo/cpu/case combo? Any advice appreciated. Thanks in advance!

You did not tell your budget, so I am throwing some parts I'd get if I was going with same goals and was not too short on money.

Recent Shuttle models have not got so good results on quietness side, so I'd go for more standard Mini-ITX platform. It enables you to pick and update parts individually.

MB might be something like this: http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?func ... at2_no=393.

There are also Mini-ITX MB's that accept full 16 lane PCI-Express cards, but I don't think they can equip 4 gigs of memory. But gaming was not on your requirement list, so that mobo should do.

PSU: Pico-PSU is the way to go, if you can stay within it's power limits: http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl/sc.8/category.13/.f.

Chassis: This is trickier, but mCubed, Silverstone and several others have plenty of Mini-ITX cases to choose from. On the looks department my favourite is the Nexus one: http://www.psile.com/index.php?page=cat ... ails&CID=2.

Cooling the CPU/mobo is then the tricky part, and chassis plays large role there. However, C2D has high performance per watt, and even more so if you pick some of the low-power ones.

Another option naturally would be to get Mini-ITX mobo with AM2 socket and then install low-power Athlon64 X2 there. The performance per watt is very nice on this route, too.

[burkeytonk]

i was hoping things had progressed since i built my HTPC (silverstone component case, forgot what pieces i threw in there), but it appears that nvidia is still strongly suggested by the linux community. i'm told intel/ATI have progressed, but not enough to ensure high compatibility.

considering that i want onboard graphics (for power and heat conservation), that limits my choices to AMD I think, no?

zds: I read that the low power Athlon64 X2s are only low power when idle and are actually worse during load time. True/not true?

those PSUs worry me, that wattage is awfully low for the load I may have. I think?

but that case is fucking gorgeous! thanks.

[jaganath]

I read that the low power Athlon64 X2s are only low power when idle and are actually worse during load time. True/not true?

The new 65W chips do not suffer from this (Brisbane/Windsor EE core, ADO- part number).

[burkeytonk]

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1 ... 252,00.asp

AMD's argument goes like this: Modern desktop and notebook processors constantly scale up and down between full speed and an idle state, which AMD has branded "Cool 'n' Quiet". At a given time, pushed to full load by an application, AMD's chips run hotter and consume more power. But across a typical computing day—where a user might check his email or surf the Web—the processor idles more often then not.

they may be referring to the 90nm, i guess? but it doesnt sound like it from the article. thats what confused me.

[IsaacKuo]

i'm told intel/ATI have progressed, but not enough to ensure high compatibility.

Intel graphics is as compatible as things get in Linux. Unlike nVidia, Intel releases their Linux drivers open source--meaning they get included in virtually every Linux distribution. Compatibility isn't the issue; capability might be.

those PSUs worry me, that wattage is awfully low for the load I may have. I think?

Most of the people responding have no idea what "beryl" is and are assuming you don't need 3d graphics hardware.

[jaganath]

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1 ... 252,00.asp

At the platform level, I am sure any small differences in power consumption even out; it is common knowledge that AMD consumes less at idle, and Core 2 Duo less at load. So as most PCs spend most of their time at idle, usually AMD will win at power consumption; it depends on the usage characteristics of your PC. Also bear in mind architectural differences:

http://www.behardware.com/articles/649- ... -65nm.html

It is important to point out that for AMD, the memory controller is integrated to the CPU. This isn't the case for Intel, which means that at least a dozen watts are deported from the CPU to the chipset.

[zds]

I read that the low power Athlon64 X2s are only low power when idle and are actually worse during load time. True/not true?

AMD's generally idle lower than Intel and hug more when loaded.. but AMD is more honest than Intel on the TDP values: so if AMD promises the chip will never go above certain wattage (be it 35W or 65W), I have little reason to believe they would.

those PSUs worry me, that wattage is awfully low for the load I may have. I think?

Take a look at this: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article265-page3.html. As you can see, the only AMD system that draw more than 100W of DC power was equipped with power-hungry graphics card.

This means that you should very well be able to build your system to 80/120W envelope provided by the picoPSU, especially if you pick high-efficiency and laptop hard drive (recommended anyway).

However, many Mini-ITX cases provide a PSU or at least space for it; so does that Nexus chassis, too. So it's up to you what way to go. Nexus one: http://www.psile.com/index.php?page=shop_details&CID=15.

[zds]

Intel graphics is as compatible as things get in Linux. Unlike nVidia, Intel releases their Linux drivers open source--meaning they get included in virtually every Linux distribution. Compatibility isn't the issue; capability might be.

Very true. But if you can/are willing to live with binary blob drivers, either ATI or nVidia will work.

[eitheta]

I'm looking for a small form factor.

Recent Shuttle models have not got so good results on quietness side,

An understatement.

PSU: Pico-PSU is the way to go, if you can stay within it's power limits:

Mini-Box do a 200W design similar to (but a bit bigger than) the Pico-PSU.
Check out Bluefront's Aria, or my less-impressive-but-simpler version. I tried a dual-DVI 7600GS card in this one, to confirm the power supply would handle it. I think if I'd kept the 7600GS in there, I'd suspend a quiet 80mm fan somehow to move more air past the GPU (June gets hot here, and this box lives in the hottest room in our house).

[zds]

I did some research.. if you want fast 3D acceleration (more than Intel can provide), 4G of memory *and* small form factor, here's a way to go: http://www.portwell.com/pdf/embedded/WADE-8156.pdf. Unfortunately they do not mention the price, which usually means "a lot".

If you are not willing to pay few hundred bucks extra for the tiny form-factor, then µATX is the next best bet. The bad thing is, there's very few small µATX cases out there that could keep the system quiet, too.. So expect some tinkering there.

µATX mobo is not so huge as such, but it's hard to find small and quiet case for them..

[burkeytonk]

I wonder if i should wait for the AMD's Phenom series now?

[zds]

I wonder if i should wait for the AMD's Phenom series now?

Up to you. But there's always something greater and better coming next quarter. Current Core2Duo and k8 processors are IMO not faulty in any way, so there's no regretting in getting them now. And you can get hardware that's proven to work with them, unlike with brand new technology.

The P4 episode was, I hope, an exception - in general it's better to get something that's on the market now.

[MikeC]

Take a look at this: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article265-page3.html. As you can see, the only AMD system that draw more than 100W of DC power was equipped with power-hungry graphics card.

This means that you should very well be able to build your system to 80/120W envelope provided by the picoPSU, especially if you pick high-efficiency and laptop hard drive (recommended anyway).

You may also want to read the updated section on REAL SYSTEM POWER REQUIREMENTS in the Power Supply Fundamentals article.