New Pump CSP750 lauded for low noise

The alternative to direct air cooling

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frankwest
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pumps in series

Post by frankwest » Wed Jul 21, 2004 3:12 pm

I just got my pumps set up in series , not the best looking job but I don't have a window . One thing I can say is my temps are fine and the loudest thing in my box is my Enermax 431 PS.
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TheDarkHacker
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Post by TheDarkHacker » Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:33 pm

i believe the way they are suppost to be put in a series is like ths
Image
i may be wrong but that was what i would think would work the best

Edward Ng
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Post by Edward Ng » Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:36 pm

What's the red item underneath your pumps, some sort of felt pads or something?

Did you order your pumps as two separate units? If your ordered them as the pair, is there a reason why you decided not to use the included X2 bracket, or was it just that they never sent you the bracket?

I'm having a real problem right now figuring out what radiator will actually fit my Tsunami. :(

TheDarkHacker
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Post by TheDarkHacker » Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:41 pm

you could put 2 120mm heatercores in there one in the front one in the back or cut 2 120mm holes on top f your case and put in a dangerden den double heater or whatever if you dont mind taking up a couple drive bays

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Post by Edward Ng » Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:47 pm

The USB and firewire ports are top mounted, plus I use carrying straps to move the machine around for LANning etc. with a grip that goes on top, so the top of the case is off limits, unfortunately.

Right now it appears as though my only solution may be external mounting of my radiator (out back behind the rear exhaust); does anyone know a place that sells a standalone slot shield with pass-through fittings (similar to the piece that comes in EXOS kits) so that I can run my piping out to the radiator and then back in?

TheDarkHacker
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Post by TheDarkHacker » Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:51 pm

just drill 2 holes through a pci slot cover and put a grommet or c molding and put your tubing through.

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Post by Edward Ng » Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:57 pm

Wouldn't I be limited to 1/4" ID hose that way? Otherwise I'd be cutting such large holes into the cover that the lower end would just fall off, no?

Boy I wonder if I'm even handy enough to cut sufficiently clean holes that won't shear through the tubing over time... :?

TheDarkHacker
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Post by TheDarkHacker » Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:06 pm

well if drilling holes is limited to 1/4 in then how would the premade covers holes be bigger i just mesured my pci cover and it isnt big enough to put a 1/2in ID tube through it without using like 2 covers. you could always just drill 2 3/4in holes on the back where there isnt any thing and bring them though. but be sure to but some c shaped molding around the inside of the hole to keep it from cutting up your tubing
Last edited by TheDarkHacker on Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Edward Ng
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Post by Edward Ng » Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:10 pm

the hose doesn't have to fit in the holes; it only has to clamp down around the outside of the fittings; like comparing 1/2" ID to 1/2" OD.

frankwest
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Post by frankwest » Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:14 am

I did get the pumps separate and thats velcro. My first plan was to put them in parrallel and put the chipset and GPU an there own loop. After reading fourms, looking at many pictures and trying to route the tubing in my case this seemed to be the best I could come up with.
If putting the pumps together with a close nipple will help temps I might try it but that will be a hard one to prove.
Do you guys have any pictures of your CSP pumps setup in your systems ?

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Post by chylld » Thu Jul 22, 2004 4:29 am

Edward: you might want to try something like this:

Image

these are simply brass hose connectors with compression fittings that i used as bulkhead fittings - works well, very secure. found them at bunnings (aussie equiv of home depot.) required a 20mm diameter hole i think, but that was easily accomplished through enlarging one of the knockout plate slots on the back of my case.

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Post by Edward Ng » Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:48 pm

Quick update for those who might buy the pair of them from D-Tek or preordered them and are waiting just as I am...

I got a reply from Danny and he expects the 2X brackets to arrive any day now, as they have already shipped from C-Systems! That means they can finally fill in all the preorders on the 2X CSP750 as well as list the item as in stock.

Man, now all I need is the rest of the water cooling system!

-Ed

MrBl00
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Post by MrBl00 » Thu Jul 22, 2004 4:50 pm

hmm.. 2 of these are about comparable in price to a eheim 1250... another possible c00l first w/c rig.. esp as i'm just prolly going rad, cpu block, pump, t-line.. might get a GPU block for my gf4 ti :)

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Post by IceFire » Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:50 am

My biggest problem w/ these pumps are that it is direct drive. If the seal on the shaft wears out, your pump is gone. This is one of the reason why a lot of people use Eheim and that is the reason why the Eheim is larger and can only produce the same amount of lift as the c-system pump. This is also the reason why Eheim cost more.

I would want to see some longer term test before buying one of these.

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Post by HammerSandwich » Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:30 am

frankwest, this is the first time I've seen 80mm fans on a larger rad. Did you try a 120? Care to share any performance details?
TheDarkHacker wrote:i believe the way they are suppost to be put in a series is like ths
Image
i may be wrong but that was what i would think would work the best
Those don't appear connected to me.

frankwest
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Post by frankwest » Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:18 pm

HammerSandwich what would you like to know ?

I have tried a Evercool 120mm Alum frame case fan but not with the added CPU and chipset blocks.

When I was just running a CPU block I tried the 120mm ,with a similar shroud , the temps were better with the pair of 80mm.

I am not sure why .The only thing that I could figure is the pair of 80mm fans must pull with greater pressure than the single 120mm ?

Seal
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Post by Seal » Sat Jul 24, 2004 11:34 am

thats so sexie, im still waiting for a uk stockist though...

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Post by Edward Ng » Sat Jul 24, 2004 5:02 pm

Okay, I've selected and ordered the rest of the components for my cooling system, so the entire setup will be comprised of the following:

CPU Block: Swiftech MCW6000-A, Socket 7, 3/8" ID
GPU Block: Danger Den MAZE4 GPU, 3/8" ID
Northbridge Block: Danger Den MAZE4 Chipset Block, 3/8" ID
Pumps: C-Systems CSP-750 X2 in black w/mounting bracket
Fluid: Fluid XP+ Non-Conductive Cooling Fluid
Radiator: Pro-120 Hi-Perf Radiator in black
Shroud: Pro-120 Fan Shroud Kit
2 y-fittings, 3/8"
MCB-120 Radbox Radiator Mounting Kit
10' of ClearFlex 60 3/8" ID tubing
some hose clamps

Right now, my biggest concern is how I'm going to get that radiator mounted out back; the Tsunami Dream's rear exhaust fan is mounted via a plastic holding frame. One problem is that the plastic holding frame uses two sets of holes to attach itself to the case; one set that's farther in than the normal 120mm fan's, which is for the four alignment pins, and then another set of holes farther out than normal for 120mm fans, for actually screwing in the plastic holder. I will need to, either, get crafty with that radiator mounting kit, or, drill the proper set of holes.

As for the layout, I'm thinking of using one y-splitter right after the radiator, out to the two pumps, then one pump for the CPU block and the other pump for the remaining two blocks; then after that, back together using the second y-splitter before going out of the case, to the radiator, then back in. I haven't yet decided between fill & bleed kit, or an actual reservoir.

What do you guys suggest to go with the above goods, straight fill & bleed setup, or something like a BayRes?

-Ed

EDIT: Typos.

TheDarkHacker
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Post by TheDarkHacker » Sat Jul 24, 2004 5:08 pm

why are you going with a 3/8 in system. you will get better performance with a 1/2 in system. just asking. definatly fo with a reservoir. t lines are a pain

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Post by Edward Ng » Sat Jul 24, 2004 5:15 pm

The quick and honest answer is that the CPU block only comes in 3/8" ID; this is my first ever water cooling system, and I want to keeep it as easy as possible, so I set all components up to come in with 3/8" ID fittings; the only unknowns right now are the default fitting size on the pumps. I want to avoid adapters and conversions as much as possible, since it's my first time and I'm worried about leaks etc. That's also why I chose to go with that expensive nonconductive fluid, rather than straight distilled water with some additives. Should I screw up, I'll be relatively secure in that I won't fry anything.

I just realized I didn't order any teflon tape; I wonder if I should get some with the reservoir.

Seal
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Post by Seal » Sat Jul 24, 2004 5:18 pm

Swiftech wb? I'd go for a dangerden or a dtek waterblock by far. Swiftechs are for people who want an all in one package/are less experienced, i hardly see hardcore setups like uve just listed with swiftech cpu blocks.

Also i use a t line and i have no trouble wih mine, i can fill it up from dry with hardly no air in - requires alot of twisting and turning inside the case though.

And also i doubt you need 3/8. Go for a good 1/2" rather than a sloppy 3/8. You wont achieve much using 3/8 unless your going for totally hardcore maxx++ overclock and every 0.5 degree c counts. Also people who use 3/8 usually go for very powerful pumps for a good pressure+head.

and i cant imagine the amount of hasstle 3/8 will be with fitting because even flexible tubing like clearflex/tygon isnt *that* easy to fit in 1/2" size - the tubing will determine itself where it wants to put the rad/pumps rather than you determining where it goes lol. (only people who have experienced watercooling will probably get what i just said)

TheDarkHacker
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Post by TheDarkHacker » Sat Jul 24, 2004 5:26 pm

i just realized that fluid xp is not an additive. i always though it was but i just found out that you use it as the accual coolant. is there any performance drop or what

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Post by Edward Ng » Sat Jul 24, 2004 5:28 pm

I looked at the System Cooling review of the CSP750s and determined that a pair of them combined will produce about 1.75gpm flow; on ProCooling's massive waterblock comparison, the optimum blocks at this flow level were the MCW6000 and the Cascade; I didn't think the Cascade's price was reasonable enough to justify the difference in performance from MCW6000.

And yes I realize that MCW6002 is the 1/2" ID version, but I wanted 3/8" ID also because it's easier to work with. Although I'm not sure exactly what size fittings the CSP750s are, their instructions indicate 3/8" ID to be optimal.

-Ed

EDIT: PS; one somewhat shoddy review indicated the Fluid XP+ to be just as good as water, and according to the specifications, it performs some ~97% as well as real water, so I don't think I'm giving up too much in the performance department.

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Post by Rusty075 » Sat Jul 24, 2004 5:42 pm

Image
(image from the excellent Procooling.com review of the 6000-a)


The 6000a is a good choice, particulary with your low-flow but high head pumps.

And 3/8" tubing is fine. All your blocks are 3/8", using adapters to run 1/2" would be useless, the real restriction is in the blocks.

Seal's comments about 1/2" and 3/8" are a bit, um, confusing. It sounds like he thinks 3/8" is bigger than 1/2" and thus harder to route. That's the only way his comments about "hardcore overclock" make sense. People for whom "every 0.5 degree counts" use bigger tubing not smaller.

But then again, maybe I'm not one of the "only people who have experienced watercooling will probably get what i just said"

:roll:

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Post by Bosk » Mon Jul 26, 2004 9:02 am

daroach1414 wrote:hey bosk, i posted earlier in this thread about the sound of these things but i will go ahead and say it again.

There is little to no noise or vibration. I got one about a week or two ago and its WAY better than my old hydor L30. I have it sitting on a 2in x 2in peice of foam and you cant hear it at all. You have to touch it to see if its working.
Cheers daroach1414, I did expect them to be extremely silent but it's always nice to get some concrete results :)

It's just a pity they aren't available in Australia yet but with the massive demand they've experienced I guess it's to be expected.



Speaking of silent pumps, I'm a bit annoyed that I hadn't heard about this Innovatek HPPS 12v Pump before I bought my 1048, though they are somewhat pricey!

Bosk
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Post by Bosk » Mon Jul 26, 2004 9:21 am

Edward you might wish to consider using 1/2" tubing rather than 3/8" for performance reasons.

I say 'performance' even though silence is obviously your prime motivation for "getting your feet wet".

I've found in my so-far limited "watercooling adventures" that performance is still a critical factor when aiming for silence, since lower water temps mean lower CPU and case temps - thereby allowing you to run all the fans in your system slower, worry less about airflow, be less concerned that your HDDs will overheat, and what have you.

Perhaps I'm sounding a bit too impartial here but it seems to me if you can get some extra performance "for free" (no added noise) by using larger tubing then its a win-win, unless perhaps you're really cramped for room and feel you can only fit the 3/8" stuff.

Edward Ng
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Post by Edward Ng » Mon Jul 26, 2004 11:51 am

Well, maybe in future adventures, Bosk; the stuff I listed has already been placed on order, and none of the places I ordered from accept returns on water cooling equipment.

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Post by Edward Ng » Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:46 pm

I have received all the components except for the pumps (D-Tek Customs is still waiting for the X2 bracket to send me my pair of CSP750s).

On air cooling, right now:
35watt Mobile Barton at 12.0*211=2533 @ 2.00 volts
6800GT at 417/1190
ABIT AN7 (a gimpy one, but it considering how far it's pushing my Barton, I'm not ditching it), northbridge cooled with a fanless MCX-159
SP1614N

Have in my possession for the new cooling system, waiting for the pumps:
MCW6000-A CPU block
Maze 4 GPU block
Maze 4 northbridge block
Pro-120 heatercore from D-Tek Customs
Swiftech Fill n' Bleed system
10' of 3/8" ID hose, Clearflex 60
Swiftech external radiator mounting box with PCI slot bracket with fittings and inlets for tubing

The pumps, again: 1 pair of C-Systems CSP705 pumps, with X2 bracket


I have already mounted the heatercore to the back of the system; it goes:

Case->radiator mounting box->fan->shroud->heatercore

Also installed the PCI slot bracket and fittings, and then installed the tubing from the heatercore to the bracket; used antikink coil and metal tube clamps. In other words, everything external to the system is set.

Tomorrow, I'm going to install the fill & bleed system into a half-height bay. Doing everything piece by piece before the pumps come in will save me time the last day, and get my 24-hour leak test started sooner.

I will be using 3/8" ID tubing all-around; right now I'm thinking to install one pump pushing through the CPU block and then the second pump pushing through the GPU and northbridge blocks, then the two paths come together before going out to the heatercore, then back in from the heatercore, up to the fill & bleed, then out of the fill & bleed into a y-splitter out to the two pumps again.

Does this sound like an intelligent setup? Or does anyone suggest running serial pumps instead, to the y-splitter, then one path to the CPU and the second path to the GPU & northbridge, and then back together before the heatercore?

-Ed

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Post by Rusty075 » Fri Jul 30, 2004 5:48 am

I would suggest that serial pumps will result in lower temps....

but....

Perhaps it would be useful to try it both ways. Just leave the tubing a little long on everything and run it for 24 hours or so in each configuration, to compare temps. Might be very educational.


:lol:

chylld
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Post by chylld » Fri Jul 30, 2004 11:58 pm

Rusty075 wrote:Perhaps it would be useful to try it both ways. Just leave the tubing a little long on everything and run it for 24 hours or so in each configuration, to compare temps. Might be very educational.
definitely. fluid dynamics + heat transfer = not exactly a trivial matter, however it is often to see people jump to quick conclusions and say "A is better than B". put an end to the nonsense (or at least part of it) and publish some solid test results :)

and do an spcr review on the various components while you're at it too please :lol:

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