New quieter Swiftech MCP350 pump...any takers?

Mr_Smartepants · Post by **Mr_Smartepants** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:10 am

DangerDen has one of these as well for $5 cheaper. Same OEM and specs as the Swiftech part. Here's the DangerDen link
Has anyone heard or tried one of these? 24-26dBa @ 12V @ 2ft sounds too good to be true. By contrast, the MCP650 is rated at 33-34dBa @ 12V and I've heard from users that it's very quiet and almost silent when undervolted.
It's got lower operating PSI and flowrate than the MCP650 too.

I'm now planning a WC setup for my Sonata rig that includes this pump, a 350mm reserator from wet & chilly chips and swiftech waterblocks (CPU, VGA, NB) and 120mm radiator (Panaflo @ 5V if needed).

Edward Ng · Post by **Edward Ng** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:39 am

I've been contemplating these since word of the Laing DDCs hit the streets, but it would mean changing up my loop in such a way as to change from a 90-degree angle change to a 180-degree angle change between inlet and outlet at the pump compared to my current arrangement.

The pump isn't very cheap, either.

-Ed

HammerSandwich · Post by **HammerSandwich** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:24 am

Available information says this is the best bet for a quiet, reliable, 12VDC pump available now. Haven't seen one yet, but I will soon.

TheDarkHacker · Post by **TheDarkHacker** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 1:23 pm

i think it would onyl give you good performance when paired up with a swiftech 6002 block or 2 of the pumps in series

HammerSandwich · Post by **HammerSandwich** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 2:38 pm

That's exactly backwards. This pump offers high pressure capability and should produce ~1GPM even with a restrictive WB. Compare its curve to some common WC pumps.

DryFire · Post by **DryFire** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 2:44 pm

TheDarkHacker wrote:i think it would onyl give you good performance when paired up with a swiftech 6002 block or 2 of the pumps in series

hmm maybe not. it has such a high head that it will loose a lot less flow. I'd not be surprised if it has comparable flow to a 1048.

Mr_Smartepants · Post by **Mr_Smartepants** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:55 am

I was always under the impression that pump pressure (PSI) and head height were directly proportional to each other. That's not so in this instance. If you look at the specs for both the MCP650 and MCP350 you'll see that the head height of the pump for the 350 is 13ft but the 650 only has a head height of 10ft and yet the PSI rating of the pumps are 22PSI and 50PSI respectively. So to me it looks like swiftech is marketing the 350 for users in need of a quiet low-flow small pump and the 650 for hardcore users looking for max performance.
It'd be interesting to see both pumps against each other to match PSI/Flow by undervolting the 650 and see which one is quieter.

Personally I can't see the need for a 13ft head height since most WC setups have at most 5ft of vertical separation.

Post by **Rusty075** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 6:49 am

Mr_Smartepants wrote:Personally I can't see the need for a 13ft head height since most WC setups have at most 5ft of vertical separation.

The importance of head has very little to do with vertical rise in the WC loop. The fact that PC WC'ing loops are closed loops in which the water "drops" back down again makes the vertical rise even less important.

The real impact of the head spec is that it, along with the rest of the P/Q curve, is a measure of the pump's ability to overcome flow restriction in the loop. Modern WB's can be very restrictive, and their effect is combined with the tubing length, bends, elbows and fittings to produce the equivalent of some pretty lofty pumping heights. In most loops the pump is actually working near the end of its P/Q curve.

Edward Ng · Post by **Edward Ng** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 6:53 am

There's three of us who now have DDCs on their way to them.

-Ed

HammerSandwich · Post by **HammerSandwich** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:48 am

Mr_Smartepants wrote:If you look at the specs for both the MCP650 and MCP350 you'll see that the head height of the pump for the 350 is 13ft but the 650 only has a head height of 10ft and yet the PSI rating of the pumps are 22PSI and 50PSI respectively.

While head and PSI are both measures of pressure, they refer to different things in pumps. Head rates pumping ability, while PSI indicates a pump's mechanical limits. IOW, you risk housing rupture if you put the MCP350 into a pressurized system at more than 22psi. Note that 22psi is about 50 feet of head - far beyond what the DDC can pump.

I echo Rusty's comments about head. Increased flow causes more resistance, which is why you need more pumping pressure to create more flow. Get a big, fat drinking straw from McDonald's and a tiny stirring straw from your favorite dive bar. Do you have to suck harder to get decent flow through the small one?

Mr_Smartepants · Post by **Mr_Smartepants** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:26 am

Thanks to all for the info. An old dog CAN learn new tricks!
I updated the first post to reflect the fact that DangerDen carries the exact same pump as Swiftech ($5 cheaper). The DangerDen site has a bit more information about the pump as well. Apparently, the pump can be modded for a tach output to the motherboard for failsafe system shutdown in the event the pump fails. That's soooooo cool!
That, and the DangerDen site has a 15% discount on orders over $200 for the xmas season! Woohoo!

HammerSandwich · Post by **HammerSandwich** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:35 am

Dangerden can ship sooner as well. It's my first order with them, but so far things look fine.

sPaNkThEmOnKeY · Post by **sPaNkThEmOnKeY** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:16 pm

Too bad it is only 3/8 and not 1/2.

sPaNk

Mr_Smartepants · Post by **Mr_Smartepants** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:38 pm

sPaNkThEmOnKeY wrote:Too bad it is only 3/8 and not 1/2.

sPaNk

The DangerDen site says they can be ordered with 1/2" barbs if needed.
I just hope they can ship to my APO address.

sPaNkThEmOnKeY · Post by **sPaNkThEmOnKeY** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:17 pm

Mr_Smartepants wrote:
sPaNkThEmOnKeY wrote:Too bad it is only 3/8 and not 1/2.

sPaNk
The DangerDen site says they can be ordered with 1/2" barbs if needed.
I just hope they can ship to my APO address.

Weel it says that it comes with 3/8" barbs, but you can order a 3/8" to 1/2" tube adaptor. The pump barbs are still only 3/8" though.

sPaNk

HammerSandwich · Post by **HammerSandwich** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:28 pm

I got my DDC today and redid my system. I like this pump so far, and it's quieter than the CSP-750 I used previously. The only drawback I've noticed is that it does not meet its undervolting spec. Perhaps once the motor bearings break in a bit...

efcoins · Post by **efcoins** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 10:05 am

So what voltage will yours work at?

Mr_Smartepants · Post by **Mr_Smartepants** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 11:45 am

HammerSandwich wrote:I got my DDC today and redid my system. I like this pump so far, and it's quieter than the CSP-750 I used previously.

So did the pump come with a 3-pin motherboard connector (tach output) as well as the 4-pin molex power input like their website claims?

HammerSandwich · Post by **HammerSandwich** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 12:13 pm

Okay, I measured the voltages and revised the revision.

HammerSandwich · Post by **HammerSandwich** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:24 pm

Mr_Smartepants wrote:So did the pump come with a 3-pin motherboard connector (tach output) as well as the 4-pin molex power input like their website claims?

Sorry I missed this earlier. The pump has both connectors, but I won't have RPM readings until I get more 3-pin extensions.

efcoins · Post by **efcoins** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:28 am

Thanks HammerSandwich
Bit if your controller is restricting the current then that may be why the pump does not start at reduced voltages.

HammerSandwich · Post by **HammerSandwich** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:49 am

Fair enough. I was surprised by the sag, since the DDC is rated at ~0.8A and the Sunbeam at 1.67. Guess we need a few more people to get DDCs and test them.

bobkoure · Post by **bobkoure** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:38 pm

Edward Ng wrote:...changing up my loop in such a way as to change from a 90-degree angle change...

IMHO it would be really nice if there was an optional "top" casting to the housing that included a small reservoir and had one or two possible points for an inlet (barb in one, plug in the other). Reservoir capacity wouldn't need to be more than a cup or so, and it would still be a very small package.
Of course, this would still mean a change for you as it'd be inlet at the top, rather than outlet at the top...

Spoon Boy · Post by **Spoon Boy** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:23 am

It seems there maybe a small reservoir built into a very similar unit, although im guessing its so small that its of little use, the pump is meant to be used in a totaly closed (sealed) system.

pdf27, kindly clears up what a volume compensator is for me at the bottom of this post

http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=18016

i would like to get my hand on a G5 Pump, but as yet i cant even find a picture of it let alone buy one,

Apple OEM is there such a thing

snutten · Post by **snutten** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:28 am

The specs given says it starts at 9V and runs at 8V. Mine starts just fine with 8.

neologan · Post by **neologan** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:51 am

I was really impressed to read about this pump..........until i saw it was 3/8...boo hoo hooo will i ever find the perfect pump?

bobkoure · Post by **bobkoure** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:57 am

And 3/8 is horrible? I've built systems in 3/8, and when replacing tubing, replaced with 1/2 and seen no change in temps.
If you're cooling a CPU, the Swiftech 6000 ( 3/8 ) is actually slightly more efficient than the 6002 (same block but with 1/2 fittings.
Then 3/8 has the advantage that if you want to put a 'T' or 'Y' fitting in line, you can use 1/2 fittings, which are typically about 3/8 ID and get less flow disruption.
And... 3/8 tubing has a smaller OD, which may result in lower air resistance in your case, which would translate into less air pressure needed to move the same volume of air through, meaning lower powered fans, so potentially less fan noise (same reason you're using rounded cables, bundling internal case wires, maybe using SATA drives, right?).
My only beef with this pump is that right-angle at the inlet...

luggage · Post by **luggage** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 7:10 am

some tests and all that:

http://www.systemcooling.com/swiftech_mcp350-01.html
[edit] includes a picture of the G5 pump/cooling

and a mod for straight inlet:

http://www.systemcooling.com/mcp350_mod-01.html