Reserator/Athlon64 3400+/Radeon X800XT - Best coolant????

[Slaugh]

Hi there...

I'm about to build my new silent watercooled system in the next days. I'm still waiting for the Phantom which hopefully will be shipped before christmas... I already have the Reserator which will cool an Athlon64 3400+ (S754) and a Radeon X800XT.

I'm wondering if somebody know what's the best coolant to use with the Reserator and that particular setup. I asked Zalman and they told me to use tap water (what?!?!) or distilled water only. I have enough distilled water to fill the Reserator. To improve the cooling capacity a bit, I bought a bottle of waterwetter (Danger Den Red Line 12oz), and (*just in case*) 2 bottles of Swiftech HydrX water additive coolant (2oz each). Of course, I'll use mainly distilled water in the Reserator. What quantity of distilled water and waterwetter should I use? And should I also mix it with HydrX stuff?

A last question... Which one should be cooled first in the loop, the GPU or the CPU?

A complete description of the system can be found in that thread.

Thanks for replying!...

[silverback]

I dont really have to much to add other then a free bump and to be very careful with the water wetter. It has been mentioned several places that the water wetter stuff reeks really really bad. So whatever you do not spill any. Someone posted that they spilled a little on the carpet from a leak and the whole room smelled nasty for like a year. The smell just doesnt go away.


Good luck with your setup it sounds like a good quiet one

[Rusty075]

I've been running a Res1 with distilled water and Waterwetter for several months without issues. I would just follow the dilution instructions on the bottle for how much to put in. Throwing a bottle of the Swiftech stuff in for insurance against tiny green men certainly wouldn't hurt anything.

And yes, as silverback stated, the waterwetter smells like 7 kinds of funk when its in its concentrated form. (Imagine a dog that got sprayed by a skunk, rolled in some manure, and then died in the hot sun....its kinda like that) And it tastes bad too. (don't ask) But once its in the loop, I couldn't detect the smell at all.


Order in the loop:

The conventional wisdom is that you want the CPU to be the first thing in line after the water comes out of the Res. But in reality, it makes almost no measureable difference. Go with whatever works out the simplest, plumbing wise. The improved flow rate you'll get by having shorter tube length and fewer tight bends will more than make up for the order in which the blocks are attached.

Here's an example of one way to plumb the WB's. I'm using the other VGA block on my northbridge, something you won't have to worry about with your A64.

[Edward Ng]

If you check Procooling's forums, you will see that there are many people who eventually find that Water Wetter leaves a film. I find the Hy-Per-Lube Super Coolant does at least as good a job, if not better, and it doesn't leave any gunk behind. It's light green and comes in clear plastic bottles with red caps. airspirit of Procooling is the person who first recommended this stuff to the community and he has tried some 30-40 different chemicals in his coolant. I've nothing but good experiences with the stuff he recommends.

-Ed

[Slaugh]

Thanks for the quick replies!

Nice advice about the watterwetter, I'll be very carefull when I'll put it in the Res! I really don't want to spill it and have a room that smells like a laboratory for a couple of months!

And it tastes bad too. (don't ask)

Ok... I'm not asking... ...but did you "drink" it? Sorry, I couldn't resist!

Hey Rusty! I really like the way you put the silicon tubes in your case... I'm wondering if I can do the same with my Sonata without modding it too much... I was first planing to put the universal fittings side by side in a single pci slot hole (like Zalman show it in the manual), but I like the way you install yours. By the way, you answered another question I forgot to ask... I was wondering if the second gpu block should be used to cool the northbridge (which only have a heatsink and no fan). So I'll just use 2 waterblocks and forget about the northbridge... I'll swap the stock case fan with a Nexus 120mm. I also have another one as spare or in case I need to put one in front of the casing (I hope not). Oh!... About the Phantom (I know it's off-topic), should I put it "outside" the case to avoid temp rise inside the case?

Edward, I looked at www.hyperlube.com to get information about the the Hy-Per-Lube Super Coolant. It sounds pretty good but I already have my bottles of watterwetter and coolant. Is waterwetter that bad? Everybody recommanded me to use it mixed with distilled water...

[Edward Ng]

I also read that those reporting the problem with Water Wetter were also running their systems with warmer coolant; those systems whose coolant didn't get so hot remained relatively film-free. Not sure how much you can do about this with a reserator though.

Luckily, the blocks that come with the Reserator, and the Reserator itself, are not very restrictive designs, so any film that does development shouldn't be such a detriment; it wouldn't get to, for example, clog up the jets of a jet impingement based CPU block.

-Ed

[Rusty075]

Most of the problems with Waterwetter also appeared in systems that use WB's with plastic tops. Apparently Waterwetter and acryllic do not get along very well. Foaming can also be an issue with it. Luckily neither of these conditions really applies to the Res1. I had the cap off my Res last week and didn't see any filming on the walls. (of course that doesn't mean there's not film elsewhere in the loop, but I haven't had an excuse to take the rest of the system down yet...and I hope I won't for the foreseeable future)

As for the tubing run, if I had it to do over again I probably wouldn't do it the same way. The high entry for the CPU is nice, but exiting right below the VGA is a serious PITA. I didn't leave myself enough slack down the to be able to pull the card out of its socket before removing the WB. I swapped cards recently, and had to get my big fat fingers down in there to get the block off the card with the card in place before I could pull it out. Exiting a slot or two lower then the card would have built some more slack in to the system, without adding very much tubing length.

[Bat]

Has anyone seen any evidence of Water Wetter giving improved performance? I haven't. Perhaps it does, but I'm not going to assume so.

Anyway, I'd recommend just using some anti-corrosion additives in distilled or deionised water: either the "life extender" stuff for adding to the water/antifreeze mixture in a car radiator, or the stuff for domestic central heating radiator systems.

Here's another thread asking exactly the same question:
http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=16467

[Slaugh]

I did some research about waterwetter. Most watercooling veterans use it as an additive to reduce corrosion. I found that link with a very good example of the waterwetter properties...

You see two small glasses. The left one is distilled water with water wetter, the right one only distilled water. You can also see 3 metal object in each glass (I think one is steel, the other copper and one aluminum, but I'm not sure though).


Now here's the shot after four days. As you can clearly see, the metal in the distilled water with waterwetter has not been corroded at all.
But if you look at the right glass with only distilled water you'll see that is has corroded very much!!!!! It also normal that the least corrosive material will not corrode much (copper in this case) and the most corrosive material will corrode a lot (steel in this example).

This is what a watercooling site say about DangerDen RedLine Waterwetter (the one I bought):

Redline WaterWetter

WaterWetter® Supercoolant is a unique wetting agent for cooling systems which reduces coolant temperatures by as much as 30°F. This liquid product can be used to provide rust and corrosion protection in plain water for racing engines, which provides much better heat transfer properties than glycol-based antifreeze. Or it can be added to new or used antifreeze to improve the heat transfer of ethylene and propylene glycol systems. Designed for modern aluminum, cast iron, copper, brass, and bronze systems.

4oz Bottle treats 1 gallon (or more)

Most systems only need about 10ml of waterwetter. The bottle contains 4oz (approx 115ml)

[Rusty075]

To clarify for Bat, the reason for using Waterwetter is its anti-corrosion effects, not its performance-enhancing effects. At the dT's we're talking about the enhancing effects are really tiny. But, opposed to glycol-based additives, at least it doesn't hurt the water's cooling abilities.

[Slaugh]

But, opposed to glycol-based additives, at least it doesn't hurt the water's cooling abilities.

Hmmm... A bit confused here... I finally got my waterwetter and Swiftech HydrX stuff today (was waiting for the shipping)... On the Swiftech HydrX bottle, I can read "Contains Ethylene Glycol"... Why are you saying that glycol-based additives can hurt water's cooling abilities? From what's written on the HydrX bottle, it's a "heat transfer enhancer and corrosion inhibitor, for liquid cooled computer systems. 2 fl. oz. Mix with 1L distilled water"... This stuff bugs me now... And I cannot see any reference to HydrX on the Swiftech web site... At least it cost almost nothing so it's not a waste if I don't use it... Should I just go with waterwetter to avoid troubles? I'm just wondering now if the waterwetter itself can be enough for my setup, the other stuff seems to do exactly the same thing... Oh! I can also see on the bottle: Do not drink!

[Rusty075]

Adding pretty much anything to water reduces its heat transfering abilities. Glycol's are, by themselves, really pretty poor conductors of heat energy. (if they were better than water, we'd run 100% anti-freeze solutions in both our cars and our WC rigs) Instead we find a balance between the corrosion protection we need, and the performance hit we're willing to take to get it.

The reason we use glycol's on our cars is for the combination of corrosion prevention and the lowering of the freezing point. That's not something we need to worry about in our PC's. (I hope)

The attractive thing about products like Waterwetter is that they provide the benefit of corrosion protection, without all the extra ingredients we don't need. Waterwetter "boosts performance" by including chemicals (sulfactants, I think. DrJ, where are you?) that decrease water's surface tension, thus increasing its contact with the metal at a molecular level. But as other's have noted, Waterwetter isn't a perfect product either, for several reasons. In reality, nothing we use is, because none of them were designed with PC watercooling in mind.


The Hydrx would be a safe bet. Swifty uses the same kind of bi-metal construction in their systems as Zalman does, so if they recommend it for their own, it should work fine in a reserator.

[Slaugh]

Thanks Rusty!... I was a bit confused first... It's my first try with watercooling and I really don't want to mess things up... Now I just have one last question: Should I use one of both of the products at the same time (waterwetter and Hydrx) or do I just put the waterwetter in and wait to see if I need to use the other stuff? I have 2 bottles of HydrX (that can treat 2L of distilled water as claimed by Swiftech)... But on the bottle of waterwetter, I can't see any indication about the dosage to use... Damn!

[HammerSandwich]

And I cannot see any reference to HydrX on the Swiftech web site...

It says nothing you don't know, but it's there.

sulfactants, I think.

"Surfactant."