Laing DDC

uszobajnok · Post by **uszobajnok** » Sat Dec 25, 2004 4:00 pm

I have a Resarator 1, but the pump inside it, is still loud for me. I would like to replace it, but I do not know which one to buy. (I am sure, I am not going to buy another Eheim.) I am thinking about getting the Laing DDC, or the Alphacool AP700 pump. If somebody has some expereinces with any of these pumps, please tell me about it.
http://www.plexmod.de/index.php?action=reviews/002/01
http://www.alphacool.de

Thanks, Daniel

Edward Ng · Post by **Edward Ng** » Sat Dec 25, 2004 4:19 pm

Do a quick search around these forums and you'll see at least two of us have the DDC; it is quieter than CSP-750 Mark II and has much better flow and head. There have been no reports of any known weaknesses in terms of reliability, while CSP-750 has a known issue with its shaft seal, resulting in early failure of the pump by coolant seeping into the motor assembly.

-Ed

uszobajnok · Post by **uszobajnok** » Sat Dec 25, 2004 5:15 pm

Thanks for your reply. But I do not know much about the CSP-750, how is the DDC compared to an Eheim? And is it louder than a silent undervolted fan? I think it would be great if somebody made a pump comparison review.

And according to the Laing website, they produce their pumps right next to the city I live in, most likely I will get one too.

Daniel

Edward Ng · Post by **Edward Ng** » Sun Dec 26, 2004 7:17 am

Depending on the block, close to, or much better than an Eheim 1250. CSP-750 Mark I was known as easily being one of the quietest pumps on the market, and I would say the DDC is only slightly louder than a CSP-750 Mark I; the revised CSP-750 Mark II is louder than a DDC.

Depending on the fan you choose, it is difficult to say if the pump will be audible over it; if you run a Nexus 120 at full 12V, which is going to be close in air flow to most other 120mm fans undervolted, I would say the fan will still likely drown out most of the pump's noise. If you undervolt a 120mm Nexus, then the pump is audible, but not too loud.

Note that these listening tests and observations I made were for the pump at 12V and with a 92mm wide opening in my side panel; with a closed, well-damped side panel, and an undervolt of the pump, you can achieve an extremely low noise (read: below ambient noise level) system; just ask HammerSandwich about it; he's got such a system. In fact, you can read about it in our Gallery. The only issue with his Gallery post is that the pictures aren't updated; they still show CSP-750 Mark I.

HammerSandwich · Post by **HammerSandwich** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 10:12 am

Edward Ng wrote:...I would say the DDC is only slightly louder than a CSP-750 Mark I; the revised CSP-750 Mark II is louder than a DDC.

I'd have said the opposite. The CSP had a nasty high-frequency pure tone that cut through everything. Undervolting the pump to ~8-9V fixed that but cost about 2C on the CPU temp. Now I run the DDC at my Sunbeam's max of 11.3V and can't hear it with the case closed. Loudest noise source is the Super Silencer, then the Samsung 1614, so long as the forced-air heat isn't running.

Edward Ng wrote:The only issue with his Gallery post is that the pictures aren't updated; they still show CSP-750 Mark I.

Yeah, sorry about that. But there's definitely plenty of text on the DDC.

Edward Ng · Post by **Edward Ng** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 3:12 pm

Heh; it's been a while; I could've sworn my Mark Is were quieter than my DDC, but maybe things went downhill acoustically with them. Of course I'm trying to compare the sound of two Mark Is at once against a single DDC and expecting that they get louder as a pair compared to a single; if the pair is not much louder than a single, than you'd be right; DDC is quieter than a single Mark I as well. Hard to say also because my system itself was much louder back when I was using the Mark Is, and now the system is a whole lot quieter, which brings out the pump's noise.

-Ed

uszobajnok · Post by **uszobajnok** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 4:19 am

And how can you undervolt the DDC pump? Is there a switch, or something on the pump, or do you have to do it through a software? If yes, is it compatible with Linux?

Thanks, Daniel

Edward Ng · Post by **Edward Ng** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:56 am

HammerSandwich did it; I think he used a rheobus.

bobkoure · Post by **bobkoure** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:01 pm

uszobajnok wrote:... (I am sure, I am not going to buy another Eheim.)

Did you have an Eheim pump fail? Which model? AFAIK, reserators don't come with Eheims - at least not here in the US.
The 1046 is submersible and might fit inside the reserator - you'd probably need to rotate the outlet so it lined up with the internal plumbing.

uszobajnok · Post by **uszobajnok** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:04 am

My pump did not fail yet, but after 2 month it became way too loud. I am not 100% sure, that I have an Eheim, but I read somewhere, that these Reserators come with Eheim Compact Pump / Powerhead 300. And I also compared their data sheets, and they match.

EHEIM compact 300
Pumpenleistung: 150 - 300 l/h
Förderhöhe: 0,5 m
Leistungsaufnahme: 5 W

Reserator 1
- Maximum Integrated Water Pum : 5 W, Qmax 300L/h
- Maximum Lift : 0.5m

Of course, I might be wrong, because I did not actually take it apart, but in two weeks, I will.

HammerSandwich · Post by **HammerSandwich** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 9:53 pm

Edward Ng wrote:HammerSandwich did it; I think he used a rheobus.

Yes, a Sunbeam. The DDC has a standard 4-pin Molex, so you can use any regular technique. I'd be wary about running it from the mobo since it pulls more power than most fans. FWIW, I plan to hardwire the DDC to the PSU next time I open the case.

DrCR · Post by **DrCR** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:24 am

You know, it's kind of funny how Laing has gone from one extreme to another. I'm halfway tempted to sell my MD-20Z 120V on eBay or something and pick up a pair of these. Any idea what kind of GPM this pump would have when paired with a G4 Storm? Also, unlike the ccystems pump the DDC has no problem running in series, correct?

Sure, I could probably find out via forum search here and procooling, but to be blatantly honest I just to lazy right now lol.

Thanks,
DrCR

_________

HammerSandwich · Post by **HammerSandwich** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 11:26 am

DrCR wrote:Any idea what kind of GPM this pump would have when paired with a G4 Storm? Also, unlike the ccystems pump the DDC has no problem running in series, correct?

Procooling's G5 review includes Cathar's P/Q graph at the end. Looks like the DDC should provide a bit over 1gpm in a CPU-only loop. No problem running in series, but it won't provide more flow unless the loop is unrealistically restrictive.

uszobajnok · Post by **uszobajnok** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:18 pm

Well, I have been using this pump for a week now, but this is not that quiet, as I thought, it would be. I put it in a box made out of wood, I also put bicycle tire between the box and the pump, and I put some pillows over the the box, but I can still hear the pump. Of course it is very quiet, but still, it is audible, and I am out of ideas. I also tried to undervolt my pump, but it did not work. I wonder if an eheim had been quiter....

eander315 · Post by **eander315** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:48 pm

Someone here said that the DDC can be made close to silent only with some heavy sound deadening material. I have a DDC that I'm integrating into a radiator box with several inches of foam surrounding the pump like a coffin (not wrapped directly against the pump). Do these pumps need any air cooling, or does it dump enough of its heat into the water to negate the need for any airflow? Currently I'm expecting to need a very small fan or some creative ductwork to provide some outside air to the pump portion of the box.

HammerSandwich · Post by **HammerSandwich** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 10:41 am

Mine's not wrapped with foam, but it runs quite cool. Strongly doubt a fan is needed.

ToasterIQ2000 · Post by **ToasterIQ2000** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:12 am

My main machine uses an Eheim 1046 ( From HighSpeed PC, ,which comes with the aftermarket rotor/paddle for lower flow and head and greater silence http://www.overclockingcard.de/pd-11865 ... goryId=222 { can one buy an eheim from a PC cooling store without this mod ?} ) with an innovatek attatched resevoir (aluminum round with lots of extra vibration dampening mass), mounted on the special little rubber pump mounting studs.

It is pumping through 2 lage external fanless radiators ( AFCO drag racing ) cpu, gpu, motherboard, hard drive cooler, digital turbine flowmeter, visual paddle wheel flow indicator, bimetal dial thermometer, adjustable bimetal thermometer switch, power supply (in tranformer oil to copper to water passive heat exchanger). And these days 24 Dallas / Maxim ds18b20 temerature probes mounted in 8 Tee fittings in the loop.

I get about 1.1 to 1.2 liters per minute out of it. Fans on the thermometer switch off, it keeps an athalon XP 3000 to 30 Celcius above ambient under moderate load.

Annyway, the eheim 1046, aside from CD access, actually clicking a mouse or typing and stuff, is the loudest part of the rig. I gather the DDC might do much better in terms of flow in such a big loop. I have yet to read anything detailed enough to gaurantee that I could mount a DDC more quietly than the 1046. I have yet to see / hear a DDC in use.

To hush up a 1046, use rubber feet or even immerse it with the rubber feet in a resevoir. Before you mount it though, check its' shaft and rotor / impeller for any excess glue or little bits of plastic flashing or even bumps and lumps left from the plastic molding. ( Trim off with a pen knife or sand off with fine grit. ) If the permanent magnet on the shaft was handled roughly during manufacture and has chips in it the pump will run more noisily -- tell your vendor to re-sell that one to an overclocker. If you have enough head temperature-wise, add more antifreeze and thicken the coolant mix to hush the pump more ( both flow rate and C/W will suffer a little). The radioactive, er I mean UV reactive, dyes can also make a low powered pump a little noisier.

Bat · Post by **Bat** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:43 am

I'd love to read more about the power supply. Care to tell us (perhaps in a new thread)? I've been wondering about good ways to water-cool a PSU for a while.

ToasterIQ2000 · Post by **ToasterIQ2000** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:15 pm

Bat, on the spur of the moment here: power supplies in an oil to copper to water bath are a lot of work to make. Since I did mention it here:
I've built 4 and two have died. Most recently: some capacitors soak up oil and bloat, pushing themselves out of the circuit board. Previously: if you experiment with different oil solutions and clean your housing with white gas, then wait a long long time before powering it up again, or fill it with oil first to get rid of the oxygenated air, or perhaps most generally, do something else less demanding when you have a cold and are fuzzy in the head... "gosh officer, there was no gunshot, it was an explosion in the lab..."
A few other salient notes from experience: oil will wick through wires, down the copper or aluminum strands and out the molex and atx connectors all over things. Use solid bolts through the housing wall, or trim off the wires' insulation and tin it solid where it passes through a hole. Oil does not compress happily as it expands, so leave room for air. Unsolder the fuse if it is on the board and extend it externally -- opening a unit merely to replace a fuse is best avoided.

Mostly, it is a lot of work and a lot of time and a lot of details with many many little things that might go wrong. The Antec Phantom came out since I built my last one, and based on the amount of work, time, and $$ I'd reccommend buildiing a fanless pc around that limit.

If I post a write-up anywhere I'll put a link to it here somewhere.

( You can see one corner of it in one picture I put up under another cowardly psudonym at http://www.crystalfontz.com/forum/showt ... eadid=2142 )

[ and the green hyperlink on "circuit board" above suprised me ...]

Laing DDC

Laing DDC

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