Best pump and radiator

The alternative to direct air cooling

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frankgehry
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Best pump and radiator

Post by frankgehry » Tue May 31, 2005 4:42 am

Is the csp mag or the swiftech mcp350 considered the better pump? Or the Aquaxtreme DDC Mag.

Are the blackice BIX radiators better than the DTEK pro radiators?

I am getting most of my information from Ed's article but there were a lot of changes made over the course of the project. I just don't have a feel yet for what makes a good pump or radiator.


TIA - FG

Edward Ng
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Post by Edward Ng » Tue May 31, 2005 8:27 am

I'm still waiting for my pair of CSP-MAGs to come in; to get essentially inaudible system out of MCP-350 aka Laing DDC, you'd have to undervolt it; as I've never personally tried that, I can't tell you just how quiet an undervolted DDC gets. The CSP-MAG is supposedly quieter than even the CSP-750 Mark I, which would pretty much make the CSP-MAG the quietest pump out there, but as I said, I have yet to receive my two pieces to tell for sure.

I had a D-Tek Pro radiator and while it can outperform the Black Ice rads, I found it to be somewhat lower in quality in terms of finish and it's harder to bleed out than the Black Ice rads due to the wavy design. Also, as the Pro Rad is deeper and less smooth, it will induce more backpressure on your fans than a Black Ice Pro, and if you're going for slow spinning, low noise fans, you want minimal backpressure, which is why Black Ice Pro is desireable over Black Ice Xtreme. For higher performance/noise/heat overclock setups, the D-Tek Pro rad is probably the better choice; for low noise/low speed fan, it's Black Ice Pro. The Black Ice Xtreme sort of strikes a middle point between the two.

-Ed

fierce_freak
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Post by fierce_freak » Tue May 31, 2005 9:06 am

There was a collaboration of the procooling forums (a large part being Cathar) and Thermochill. The result is an efficient radiator for low noise - should be able to cool a whole loop comfortably barring overly enthusiastic overclocking.

The radiator is the pa160...I'm fairly certain it's not available in the US yet...and the price looks like it might be at least $100 usd (ouch)

dis
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Post by dis » Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:46 am

I'm about to rework my watercooling setup, mainly as the rad is my main source of noise now. The CSP MAG and ThermoChill PA160 were / are the 2 i'm going for.

The main idea behind the rad being that its fitted for a 120mm fan (Papst 4412FGL prefered), and ducts out to a 160mm core. The procooling forums have all the info but from what i gather the main benefits are
A) A properly implemented duct, with airtight edges (no nasty turbulance inducing striped fan cases anymore)
B) The wider core area, meaning slower airflow as it passes and hopefully more relaxed fins spacing.

Probably not making the leap for a month but i'll post back any significant differences compared to my old 120.1 Thermochill

DougG
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Post by DougG » Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:22 pm

My MAG pump makes zero noise now.
Not kidding, you need to place it against your ear to hear anything.

Made a small sort of hum when I first got it, now nothing.

Yes it is working :)

fierce_freak
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Post by fierce_freak » Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:52 pm

I've ordered a pa160 (from the uk). I'm looking into how quiet the new MCP655 can get when dialed down (it has speed control knob built on)

fierce_freak
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Post by fierce_freak » Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:00 pm

Well, I decided to be adventurous and ordered a mcp655 (laing d5)...still waiting for the pa160 from the uK. Once I get that and set up the loop I'll report back on noise at various settings.

DGK
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Post by DGK » Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:09 pm

fierce_freak:
Mind if I ask where in the UK you ordered your pa160 from?

fierce_freak
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Post by fierce_freak » Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:45 am

Sure, it was http://www.over-clock.co.uk

I think it came to about 97 usd after rate conversion and shipping.

Happy Hopping
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Post by Happy Hopping » Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:06 pm

What would be a equvialent replacement of Eheim compact pump powerhead 300?

Eheim Compact 300:

* Pump Output: 80 gph
* Max Head: 1.6 ft
* Dimensions: 2.0" x 1.4" x 2.2"

* 3-year manufacturer`s warranty

I was thinking of Swift, but their tubing ID isn't the same.

Eheim is made in Germany, apparently, it should be good, but there is noise made by the pump after a few mth. of usage. Needless to say, it has to be silent, or nearly totally silent.

fierce_freak
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Post by fierce_freak » Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:47 pm

I saw your post at procooling, and I'll have to agree with what someone there suggested: go mag.

Happy Hopping
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Post by Happy Hopping » Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:42 pm

And if you read my reply, they are saying MAG is an OEM from C systems, which is a poor brand name.

fierce_freak
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Post by fierce_freak » Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:18 pm

i'd say was a bad brand name...the mag seems to have restored it

Happy Hopping
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Post by Happy Hopping » Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:58 pm

DougG wrote:My MAG pump makes zero noise now.
Not kidding, you need to place it against your ear to hear anything.

Made a small sort of hum when I first got it, now nothing.

Yes it is working :)
Doug, how long did you have it running? Did you undervolt it, or mod it in anyway?

And what's the model name anyway?

fierce_freak
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Post by fierce_freak » Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:26 pm

my new watercooling setup is all, ermm, set up. There's still just a bit of bleeding to be finished. I do have to say the Laing D5 (mcp655) is very quiet, especially for the kind of flow it can produce. I can very barely hear it when the only noisemaker in the system is my psu fan (admittedly not the best, fortron aurora 350 or some such). Well, really i can't hear it over the psu fan if i don't get my ear within at least 8 inches. I'd say it is just about on par with the ddc I had.

If that noise level is not good enough for you (I know there are definitely some here that could find it noisy) the pump has an adjustable speed setting. I've found that putting it around setting 3 (out of 5, 5 being high) makes the pump pretty much inaudible, for me. I don't think every component in my system will ever be quiet enough for me to hear it at that setting. Hell, on setting 2 I don't think there is really any noise to speak of. Setting 1...well, it's quiet.

On another note, I have to commend the pa160...extremely well performing rad (especially with the low airflow fans we all love)

Happy Hopping
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Post by Happy Hopping » Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:47 pm

Did the manual said what is the corresponding litre/hr. it can cycle to its setting?

Also, what's the warranty on that and what country makes it?

Edward Ng
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Post by Edward Ng » Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:48 am

fierce_freak, what case are you using for your build?

fierce_freak
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Post by fierce_freak » Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:21 am

Edward Ng: I'm usin' an SLK3000b

Happy Hopping:

Image

Happy Hopping
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Post by Happy Hopping » Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:46 am

thanks for the graph.

Come to think of it, it looks like a fire fight exchange in Iraq. :D

juansolo
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Post by juansolo » Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:19 am

If you can isolate a Ehiem 1048, you can hardly hear the thing. Mine mounted with rubber bobbins is hardly noticable, I doubt you could hear it if you suspended it.

fierce_freak
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Post by fierce_freak » Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:07 am

Here's some pics of how I mounted the pa160 to my slk3000b (here you go, ed ;))

Image Image

Image

Image

enjoy

Edward Ng
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Post by Edward Ng » Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:23 am

Interesting; I wonder if this can be done on a P180...

Happy Hopping
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Post by Happy Hopping » Sat Jun 18, 2005 2:20 am

fierce_freak, what's that blue box w/ the blue circuit board at the very bottom?

Also, does your pump itself run
cool
warm
or hot?

Edward Ng
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Post by Edward Ng » Sat Jun 18, 2005 5:26 am

If I'm not mistaken, that device is his fan controller.

And also helps leverage the radiator.

MikeC
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Post by MikeC » Sat Jun 18, 2005 5:50 am

Edward Ng wrote:Interesting; I wonder if this can be done on a P180...
No way. The only place a radiator could be fitted is directly behind the back panel 120mm fan exhaust hole, on the outside of the case. There should be enough room for holes to route the tubing above the fan and below it (in the grill for the VGA duct, which you won't need or use if you're watercooling).

fierce_freak
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Post by fierce_freak » Sat Jun 18, 2005 2:04 pm

Haha, Edward Ng, you're half right. I didn't even think about it being used as leverage. The pa160 is completely supported by the two bungies (and two very small protrusions of metal left behind by the removed drive cage).

The pump runs a little bit more than warm at the 5 setting (it's probably dumping a little over 20 watts of heat into the water). It decreases pretty dramatically with a lower setting.

DougG
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Post by DougG » Sun Jun 19, 2005 6:12 am

Overvolt?

Well I guess but not on purpose.

My mobo functions reads 12.83V, I do not have a volt meter to test for sure.

Performance wise I only have a DDC to compare against, both would be running at same voltage, and the MAG gives me better results. I am using a DD TDX style block.

I have mine mounted with the sticky tape that came with it.

I could test it againt my old AC pump, but it clearly has more flow.

DG
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Post by DG » Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:19 pm

fierce_freak, can you please tell me what temperatures do you have (video and cpu)? And pls post some system specs (what cpu and video)...:) At what voltage do you keep the Yate Loon fan on the PA160?

THX!

cotdt
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Pump

Post by cotdt » Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:54 pm

The quiestest pump I've used is definately the CSP-MAG. It is much quieter than the DDC, not to mention that it actually starts up everytime. It can also be undervolted quite a bit, but my fan controller only allows a minimum of 6V so I couldn't test it any lower than that. Still, I run it 12V in a small muffled box and that way it is completely inaudible with the case closed. I'm speaking from the point of view of no other component being turned on except my Phantom 350 PSU and in a quiet hardfloored room, so it's very quiet. Even with case open, you have to put your head close to hear the faint ticking noise, similar to a Seasonic PSU but in a muffled box it is quieter than a Seasonic. It doesn't produce much heat so muffling is a great option. It has to potential to make a dead silent computer with good muffling. Unmuffled, I would say it's about very slightly louder than a Seasonic with similar noise signature, but still much quieter than DDC or Eheim.

DougG
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Post by DougG » Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:16 pm

I understand reading on Pro Forum, c-systems has an even quiter pump coming out, if that is possible.

There is a thread by one of the engineers about a 100000 hour pump.

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