Which pump

The alternative to direct air cooling

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cAPSLOCK
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Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:06 pm
Location: Switzerland

Which pump

Post by cAPSLOCK » Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:06 am

Hi all,
I have a project on my mind of making an external watercooling case (radiator, fans, tank and pump in one nice box). I will probably only use it at first for my P-III 700MHz, but I want to have plenty of headroom to run more than one computer in this loop (and if I ever get the money, an Athlon X2 :wink:). I will be using 1/2" 'ish piping, but my DIY P-III waterblock will probably be quite restrictive, and since I plan on running more than one, it should be a pretty restrictive loop. For the rest of the stuff, the radiator will probably be scavenged from a car wreckers place (I'm thinking 3x120mm fan sized), and the reservoir will be home-made (and hopefully watertight). Now that you know the context, here is the question:

What pump should I use?

Due to supply and budget limitations there are only a few pumps that are suitable [price in CHFr.] (and what I've read about them so far):
-Eheim 1048 [60] (the standard pump, silent, but less powerful than 1250)
-Eheim 1250 [86] (twice as powerful as the 1048 on paper, but some say that only small (1-2°C) differences in real life, possibly noisy?)
-Eheim compact 1000 [37] (not much info at all about this pump, just a bit less powerfull than 1250 on paper, but same as 1048 in practice (according to http://www.tekforums.co.uk:81/lofiversi ... 29111.html), advantages are size, noise (same as 1048) and cost)
-Hydor L20 [30] (like an eheim 1048, with a less glorious reputation but cheaper)

It's possible, and probable that this information is incorrect. I'm currently thinking of going with the compact 1000. Another note is that size is not really a problem for me, and sound isn't really either, as long as it can deadened in another way (suspending, encasing in sound-damping material, etc..). My main consideration is price, and quality (longevity), I am not willing to pay 20fr. more for 1°C temp difference (who would? :shock:).

Thanks in advance for any advice, and I will keep this forum posted on my progress (although if might still be a while).

HaloJones
Posts: 109
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Location: London, England

Post by HaloJones » Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:33 am

cAPSLOCK,

All the pumps you mentioned will be adequate for a single system but only the 1250 is likely to provide reasonable flow if you start trying multiple blocks and long tubing as between multiple systems. I have a 1250 and it really is very quiet. It's only 28W so can be wrapped in sponge, mounted on rubber etc. without overheating. Avoid Hydors.

For the definitive thread on pumps check out How much pump is enough?

Mellman
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Post by Mellman » Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:41 am

i second the "avoid hydors" comment...
I thought it was a great deal - and it was at first, but this thing has only lasted me about 8 months and it already has a nice rattle. The pump was taken very good care of, never run w/o water, etc and it is already driving me nuts with its vibrations!

darthan
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Post by darthan » Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:53 am

I have two thoughts for you: 1) Eheim's have a good reputation for quality (esp. vs Hydors) but have you ever heard of D-Tek pumps? They run off of a 12V line so that they automatically turn on when your computer does and they are practically silent. The downside is that they aren't the most powerful of pumps and they are about $50 each and you'd probably want two for your system.
2) When picking a pump you have a trade off choice you have to make: temperature vs. (noise and/or price). Now what this means in practice is that that Eheim 1250 might get you a system with 35C load temperatures but even if the Eheim 1048 only gets you 50C load temperatures, well, so what? 50C is a perfectly good load temp and that 1048 is cheaper and probably quieter too. If you are really going for a silent system then you don't care exactly what your load temperature is so long as it is reasonable.

peteamer
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Post by peteamer » Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:37 am

cAPSLOCK,

FYI, I cool an overclocked XP2400+ and overclocked GeForce3 graphics card with a 1000mm WACC Resevoir (Think Reserator) and an Eheim 1048 with a home made resevoir (4 Litre juice container).

The graphics card waterblock and tubing ( 4.5M+!!) should constitute restrictive stuff... yet I'm still getting very good cooling as noted Here

In my experience, tubing length (as long as not 'tiny',) doesn't come into the equation as much as is believed in 'Folk Lore'...


The 1048 is very very quiet and providing enough umph for my system, only humming very slightly if positioned badly, suspend it on Bungee's/Elastic and it would be inaudible...




Pete

bobo5195
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Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:45 pm

Post by bobo5195 » Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:47 am

tubing length does play a facotr but in comparison to waterblocks the pressure drop is small if your using 3/8th tubing.

Happy Hopping
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:38 am

Post by Happy Hopping » Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:34 pm

HaloJones wrote:

For the definitive thread on pumps check out How much pump is enough?
On that black color graph, what's nH20 (or nWater) vs. flow rate LPM signify? I don't know what pressure head is.

And what's C/W again?

HaloJones
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Location: London, England

Post by HaloJones » Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:34 pm

A lot of that thread goes over my head too. Head is how high the pump can lift water assuming no resistance and this degrades rapdily in some pumps and less in others. This is important as with a restrictive system, some apparently similar pumps will produce wildly different results.

C/W is degrees C / Watts. Suppose a cooling system has an overall C/W of 0.20 then a 100W cpu will run at 20C over ambient air temperature.

Happy Hopping
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:38 am

Post by Happy Hopping » Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:38 pm

Thanks. But why would there be a 100W cpu? Doesn't CPU run in 2.8V to 3.3V x current? The no. should be a lot lower than 100w?

I don't get it. And yet the graph shows it should be a 100W cpu.

HaloJones
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2003 9:09 am
Location: London, England

Post by HaloJones » Tue Sep 27, 2005 10:05 am

Happy Hopping wrote:Thanks. But why would there be a 100W cpu? Doesn't CPU run in 2.8V to 3.3V x current? The no. should be a lot lower than 100w?

I don't get it. And yet the graph shows it should be a 100W cpu.
A 100W cpu is realtively easy. A Prescott3.6GHz cpu puts out 120W or more at full load. An over-volted Athlon XP can put out 100W. An AMD X2 cpu puts out more than 100W at default voltage so overclock it and the power draw increases very quickly. Almost all that power goes out as heat and it's a very small die.

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