Watercooling Antec P180 for newb

[sherbet012]

Hi.
Before I ask anything, yes, I've been a good boy and read the forum sticky. And yes, I'm very familiar with AIR coolings / systems / heat issues..

Now, I'm finally stepping up to the next level -> watercooling. (or liquid cooling to be precise, right? )

I just want a simple watercooling system for my P180 case. It doesn't even have to cool the whole system; right now my P180 works like a heater in this so-cal house and everybody's giving me a weird look when I sweat but saying 'But mine's silent!'

I have s939 Opterton 165 with Fanless geforce 6800. Also have 4 HDD, 2 of them are 10,000 RPMs. My computer worked fine with 277fbs but it's summer now and it's start giving me some problems when I play 3D games.


I just want a simple solution, that is watercooling and silent. I'm thinking ZALMAN RESERATOR 1 Plus because honestly that's the only watercooling product that I know. My price range is less than $300, and I want a simple, kinda easy installation, silent product.

Can you guys recommend me the product + online store (USA) for me? It would be a great help!

thanks for any replies.


added : it doesn't have to be the cooler for the whole system. my guess is that maybe lowering one of the component would lower the system's heat level..

[ZeroR3D]

If you want to learn a bit about wcing, I would say a custom system is better in the long run than a a premade system like the Reserator.

In my own P180 I have a D5 pump, a Storm Rev2 CPU block, a Tyee x1900 block, an MCR220 Rad with 7/16" tubing and a t-line. This will beat the pants off the reserator. Since your GPU isnt all that hot, the front fan intake should be sufficient to cool it, so all you would need would be pump, cpu block, rad and tubing. However, I did have to drill holes for my rad but you could mount it elsewhere (eg single 120mm rad on the rear fan mount).

jab-tech.com and petrastechshop.com are good etailers for that stuff

[unimatrix0]

Hey welcome to the realm of water cooling

What should you get? It really depends how much you wanna get into water cooling. If you want a kit and be done with it, then you would consider something like Zaman's Reserator which comes with everything that you need. The alternative is picking out components individually to suit your needs. There are awesome components from different manufacturers as well as stuff you could possibly even make yourself. I would suggest to go second route only if you have the time and plan on possibly water-cool your whole system or future overclocking.

The Reserator is a bit expensive, the cooling isn't that great, and it’s external, but it's probably the best silent water-cooled solution out there. The waterblocks are aluminum which may not be that favorable. If you ever think to upgrade, most of the premium waterblocks out there are copper, and ideally you don’t want to mix different metals because of corrosion.

I have a ThermalTake Bigwater 735 with a Danger Den GPU waterblock and a Cooler Master HD waterblock. After weeks of research and fiddling, my system is near silent, however if I had to choose again, I wouldn’t go with the Thermaltake 735. –Side note—whatever you choose, pay attention to the size of the tubes you choose I had a Kingwin Aquastar with ¼â€

[ZeroR3D]

Addendum:

If you want the best silent pump, I would get a DDC+ with radiical turbo head mod. It's pretty much the best silent option next to the D5, which has a slight high pitch whine to it that a few people can hear. It's more expensive though (and the whine disappears between settings 1-3 on my D5).

Best tubing is 7/16" Masterkleer, excellent visual clarity, not as thick walled as conventional 1/2"ID / 5/8"OD tubing for tighter bends, and even improved flow over 1/2" tubing. Also dirt cheap.

I would really stay away from anything coolermaster or thermaltake has to offer, it may be cheap but you're getting what you pay for. A DD TDX or Swiftech Apogee is excellent cheap alternative to the ubiquitous Storm. And if you absolutely MUST have a GPU block the Swifty MCW60 is cheap and really good.

A company called Cooltechnica has also released some EXCELLENT blocks at a competitive price range. THe MP05 for your CPU and MP01 for your GPU is a good choice if money is an issue (though with DIY systems, you'll come out way ahead of premade, feeble kits).

And for a SILENT system, you're best off with a low-fin density rad, like the thermochill series PA120.x, or Swiftech MCR220, BIP series, etc. THese are specifically designed for low cfm (aka low rpm and noise output) fans.

Honestly, check out petra's tech shop, they have kits that run well under 300 and have some of the best parts out there. Don't waste your money on Zalman.

[zds]

The Reserator ... waterblocks are aluminum which may not be that favorable. If you ever think to upgrade, most of the premium waterblocks out there are copper, and ideally you don’t want to mix different metals because of corrosion.

To be exact, Reserator CPU block is gold-plated copper where it matters - between liquid and heat source. The top is anodized aluminium in previous models and clear polycarbonate in the latest incarnation. And from my experience the anodization of the older blocks is well done, so there should not be corrosion issues due to the use of aluminium.

So as far as CPU block goes, Reserator matches the (other) premium parts in terms of quality of the materials and workmanship. The performance is another matter, but it easily gets the job done,ie. keeps you CPU from overheating.

[Vihta]

I'm using Zalman WB3-Gold, GWB2, NWB1 and Eheim 1250 inside a P180. The water is then cooled with five Innovatek Konvekt-O-Matic PRO LC profiles bolted to the side of the case.

This might not be a perfect system, but it works well and is very, very quiet.

[sherbet012]

Wow! Thanks!
You guys really did gave me all the useful infos FAST.
Thanks again!

So, for starter with ok performance with silence, ZALMAN RESERATOR 1 Plus would still do, but if I really wanna get into it, you guys recommend custom-built wc system. Just like PC. And to make it silent, it might cost more than I expected..

Well, I'm kind of clumsy. I only learn from mistakes. I'm leaning towards to Reserator 1 Plus because of all-in-one setup with relatively easy installation. And it's near-silent. If I see that wc is the thing for me, I'm gonna get the custom-built for my new Conroe system. I'll probably get my new system end of this year or early next year.

I tried google DDC+ but didn't get any result of pictures of informations..

Oh, 1 more question. Is it possible to uninstall the waterblocks and other equipments and re-use the components for the next upgrade system? And can I use the thermal grease/remover for the waterblocks?

Thanks again.

[zds]

I tried google DDC+ but didn't get any result of pictures of informations..

Try searching these forums for DDC .

It's Laing Delphi DC pump, also sold as Swiftech MCP350. The original version (that I have) is very quiet, if you install the acrylic top to it. Nowadays there is also two higher power variants, but I'd go for the original one - it has enough pressure head to push through almost any WC system, so for silent rig you don't really need any more power.

And Reserator is not bad one either, except it's partially external and thus a bit cumbersome to transport your machine. It's silent and cools on par with hi-end air coolers. The only negative thing I know is that the pumps tend to get noisy when they get older.

[ZeroR3D]

And the coolant is also smelllly

Most waterblocks now have universal mounting systems, and if you're looking to futureproof anything that's got a mount for AM2 and LGA775 will do you for a while yet. Pumps, reservoirs, fittings etc are almost always reusable. And yes, you can use thermal grease remover on waterblocks, since the contact part is bare metal just like any other heatsink (I just use paper towel and rubbing alcohol lol).

Like I said, if you want a plug and play watercooling system, the reserator is fine. But for price/performance, absolute perfomance, reusability, portability and improving your knowledge of things, do it yourself

[HammerSandwich]

Hang on a second, everybody!

...right now my P180 works like a heater in this so-cal house and everybody's giving me a weird look when I sweat but saying 'But mine's silent!'
<snip>
my guess is that maybe lowering one of the component would lower the system's heat level..

Do not confuse heat and temperature! A good cooling setup - water or otherwise - may reduce the temperature of your CPU, GPU, etc.; but IT WILL NOT CHANGE THE AMOUNT OF HEAT YOUR SYSTEM PUTS OUT!!! The only ways to decrease your room's temperatures will be to add room cooling, build a more efficient system (Conroe plus 7600GT?), or dump the heat in a remote location. You could build a custom WC setup that mounts the radiator outside, but that's a major project for a first-time build. And the Reserator's pump is not up to the amount of hose you'd need.

Well, I'm kind of clumsy. I only learn from mistakes.

You should be exceptionally careful with watercooling, especially if you attempt a complex build. And I don't see a simple setup meeting your goals...

[sherbet012]

Thanks zds, ZeroR3D, and HammerSandwich.

I'm looking for a better performance than my current aircooling, because it doesn't coole enough for the summer. Swiftech MCP350 seems to have a great rep. by WC users; if only there are kits available (or if anybody can point me the exact components with etailer..) and if it's as silent as Zalman one, I might change my mind again..

Oh and thanks HammerSandwich for the comment. One of my friend might help me on putting the radiator outside of my room since my PC is close to the windows, but I disagreed. Our home has central AC and it's blowing the air from above the door, exactly opposite side of the PC. I'm right in the middle of the cool air and my PC. I'm guessing it's either cool air doesn't reach to the pc well since I'm blocking 'em, or my PC is just too hot. My back is cool, my front right leg is warm, and since central AC doesn't run 24/7, my room gets hot and cold and hot and.. you get the idea. So I was thinking of moving radiator more closer to the cooler side of my room.

Will WC still help my system?

[ZeroR3D]

It will help with stability if your problem is heat buildup. I say if because your oc might just not be stable. Having an external rad or something that will pump heat out of your case will definitely "improve" your cooling performance and water is quite efficient at doing that.

Mounting a 2x120 rad on my P180 literally took two minutes. I roughly mounted the rad, marked out where the barbs where hitting the case and used a 1" hole saw attachment on my drill to cut it out. Of course this is more work than the zalman but we've already gone over why I think this is a better solution.

Bear in mind that if you have any external sort of cooling, that heat is gonna go into your room. There's just only so much you can do if you have crappy insulation or refuse to run the ac in a hot climate. For the record, you waste more energy and power continually turning the ac on and off than leaving it constantly running.

And if you looked at petra's tech shop (this is the third time I've mentioned it), you'll see they have exactly the kind of kits we're talking about.

[sherbet012]

Mounting a 2x120 rad on my P180 literally took two minutes. I roughly mounted the rad, marked out where the barbs where hitting the case and used a 1" hole saw attachment on my drill to cut it out.

Hm.. I see.
The reason I asked for the kit is that I'm very very new to this WC and just wanted to make sure I can buy everything that I needed. Asking questions finally makes sense to me, and I can finally see the pictures of WC systems and can tell how it works. (never seen working WC system in real life so it was bit hard for me to imagine)

So I'm guessing that it's the pump and rads that changes the noise level, and because Zalman's doesn't have the fan or loud pump/rads, it makes a good kit for starters who want low noise.. Am I understanding correctly? (I know it's pain in the ass when you have to direct newbie to the right direction, but I'm just that new to WC. Sorry.)

And about the pump - Swiftech or Laing Delphi CD - I can't find MCP350. All I can find is the new MCP655. I wonder if it's noisier then the MCP350 since it has more power..

My questions in short would be 'Is it really really possible to make WC system that's quieter with better performance than Zalman's Reserator Plus 1? All for $250ish?'

[ZeroR3D]

Quieter than the Zalman? No. As quiet? Yes, with good part selection and some fan tweaking.

If you want absolute silence, get the Reserator Plus, it has no fan versus the regular reserator's 1 low-rpm fan. You will never obtain this level of silence unless all you do is cool your CPU on say an undervolted PA160.

The MCP655 (aka Swiftech or Laing D5) is the pump I have and it is very quiet in terms of vibration with the right dampening material. I have it attached by industrial velcro to the top of my case by the blowhole btw. It does however have a high-pitched whine on the higher settings (3-5) which means you'll be using 1-3) if you want COMPLETE silence.

I dunno how you were unable to find the MCP350, it's the first hit google returned lol

http://www.swiftnets.com/products/mcp350.asp

This is the UNMODIFIED version and not as powerful as the D5. With an Alphacool plexi top or radiical turbo top, it will perform on-par if not better than the D5 at a quieter level and with less heat dump into the loop.

Combine that with a low fin-density rad like the Thermochill PA120 series and undervolted and rubber-mounted Yate Loon D12SL-12s and you pretty much have an inaudible watercooling system that's miles ahead of the reserator.

Even in my system, the only audible noise is my HD during seek and the two internal case fans which vibrate way too much (way to go P180 design). I'm looking to undervolt and rubber-mount them and will report back with noise performance. (the system is pretty much inaudible if they're off, but my hd's start skyrocketing in temp).

[sherbet012]

Ahh! Great! Thanks for the info!
What I really needed!

I couldn't find the MCP350 when the forum people called it as DDC+ or something.. Now I know that there two popular versions from swifttech - MCP350 and MCP655. Thanks for the help.

So it comes down to performance now.. And obtaining some knowledge with WC. I've seached almost all day now and found out that it's lot more complex than AC. lol.

So you want Alphacool plexi top or radiical turbo top for the silent operation. First when people here recommended the modded top I didn't know what it meant but after full day of research NOW I get it. Thanks again.

I'll search for the user threads of Reserator and other quiet WC solutions to see if it's worth to go silent WC or almost-silent WC with better performance.

BTW, can anybody give me comparison of noise level of Zalman CPU fans vs MCP350 (or MCP655)? I used to have Zalman CPU fan but now I'm using louder AC fan due to new motherboard upgrade. It was too much hassle to uninstall from s478 and reinstalling it to new s939.

Any infos will be a great help!
Thanks again. Whichever WC solution I get, I'll try to take some pix and share afterthoughts.

[zds]

If you want absolute silence, get the Reserator Plus, it has no fan versus the regular reserator's 1 low-rpm fan.

Huh? I have never heard about any Reserator coming with a fan..

[zds]

BTW, can anybody give me comparison of noise level of Zalman CPU fans vs MCP350 (or MCP655)?

Check the measurements I reported in this thread. These measurements are made in free air, so if the fans were blowing through a heatsink, the difference was bigger, to the advantage of the DDC.

Zalman sells a variety of CPU coolers with fan, and I have never heard one in person, but based on the information I have, I am pretty certain that at least my DDC is quieter at 12V than Zalman flower heatsink fans at 12V.

BTW, try googling "DDC pump", you'll get a lot of hits.. That way you can look which one you get cheaper, especially with the acrylic top. The thin black plastic top is a no-no .

[ZeroR3D]

If you want absolute silence, get the Reserator Plus, it has no fan versus the regular reserator's 1 low-rpm fan.

Huh? I have never heard about any Reserator coming with a fan..

Didn't the original reserator have a low rpm fan?

[HammerSandwich]

BTW, can anybody give me comparison of noise level of Zalman CPU fans vs MCP350 (or MCP655)?

My system got significantly quieter when I went from a Zalman 7000 at 1400rpm (max under load) to WCing with a DDC. You can read about the initial watercooled build or its current incarnation.

[sherbet012]

Wow! Thanks everybody.
When a newbie walks into the scene, people are usually busy flaming and bashing on the newbie but this forum is sure as helpful as google - maybe even more!

I'm learning a lot about WC, Thanks to you guys.
Thanks for the great comparison zds.
And that's an awesome rig, HammerSandwich!

I'm still deciding on custom-built vs Reserator. I barely passed the craft classes when I was in school. I can probably build the WC if there's a kit but making a custom top for the pump for the silent operations, I dunno if I can do that..

Oh and sorry for asking more, but will it cool-down my rig at all if I just WC the CPU only? My HDD and geforce 6800 runs pretty hot, and I'm not sure if I should build the whole WC system or just the CPU..

[zds]

Didn't the original reserator have a low rpm fan?

Nope. I have one from the very first batch that hit the markets and it's completely fanless.

[ZeroR3D]

Didn't the original reserator have a low rpm fan?

Nope. I have one from the very first batch that hit the markets and it's completely fanless.

Hmm must be thinking of something else then. In any case, my point still stands, reserator for absolute silence.

About the DDC custom top, you can buy it as an attachment, no need to make it yourself. Hell you can buy it all preassembled.

If you're running a P180, it's an extremely quiet case at the price of heat buildup without proper cooling. You still need air blowing over your HDs to be safe and adding a GPU block is pretty easy.

[zds]

About the DDC custom top, you can buy it as an attachment, no need to make it yourself.

Indeed. If you can use screwdriver, you can swap the top yourself..

[sherbet012]

Hmm..
So virtually silent, Reserator still wins..
Damn. Tough choices..

Well, I guess I'll start looking for the modded MCP series or good Reserator price, with GPU block a must.

I'll try to compare the prices difference to see if it's worth going custom-built. I'm looking at a custom-built pump, rad, tube, blocks, and possibly a reservoir, right?

edit : does Petra'sTech "Gel-Stuff" Vibration Absorption Block qualifies as a good silent solution for pumps?

[unimatrix0]

There is a very nice kit from Swiftech, Swiftech H20-220 which has the infamous D5 pump as well as a Quiet Power dual radiator and the swiftech CPU block and the thin clear reservoir as well as hoses, clamps, etc. This would make for a great "starter-to-pro" kit, great components, quiet and powerful, if you are still digesting all the suggested mods and stuff, I know I was. I'm personally considering getting the D5 pump and swiftech rad and reservoir, all of which come on this kit.

[ZeroR3D]

While that kit is pretty good, I really would like to push the modded DDC as an even quieter performance solution than the D5.

Reservoirs aren't really necessary, my first watercooling job used a t-line and it was pretty much hassle-free. The top fan grill on the P180, you can cut out the center hexagon with tin snips and it's a perfect fit for a 1" fillport>t-line.

And I dunno about the gel stuff, just seems gimmicky. Some thick neopreme would do the same job, the D5 and DDC don't put out much vibration noise either, it's more the high-pitched motor whine on the D5.

[zds]

While that kit is pretty good, I really would like to push the modded DDC as an even quieter performance solution than the D5.

Ditto.

If your goal is to keep the machine silent, any circulation is enough, so you do not need the additional flow provided by D5. DDC has almost as much pressure head, if not more, and that's what matters here. Rigs built for ultimate performance are then different matter.

So basicly what you want is the pump that's the quietest when running at lowest voltage where it still is able to keep the water moving.

[Mobius]

sorry to hijack this thread, but i haev a question to those with a p180 and wc setup, what radiators did you guys use and how was it mounted in the case? and also would a bix/p fit in the lower chamber where the psu/hdds are?

[ZeroR3D]

I have an MCR220 mounted on the rear fan mount using a radbox. Two 1" holes were required for hose pass-throughs. Here's a pic:

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4434/img0017fq6.jpg

I'm not sure if you mean the bottom fan mount or the bottom front area. The bottom middle fan mount is a bad place for a rad because you'd be circulating heat into the case.

The bottom front area is also not ideal. Even with the weird bracket thing removed, a 25mm-thick fan will not fit there with the HD cage installed and the holes in the case don't line up properly with 120mm fan. It's definitely doable though if you don't put any HDs there and drill out your own holes or use some other method of mounting the rad (iirc someone has a 129mm externally mounted in the lower front intake, the door even closes properly).

Also, if you want to ditch the upper HD and floppy area, you can mount a PA160 by the front fan intake. Search for gocchin at xtremesystems for an example.[/url]

[ShagMan]

I used a Reserator (not plus) for WC'ing my P180. Here's some thoughts:

Get the old Reserator. It's cheaper, and the older CPU block is better than the one with the plus. I managed to find an "open box" Reserator from newegg for $140ish.

WC'ing will NOT make your room any cooler, as others have said. It just moves the heat radiation outside your box.

The Reserator isn't that great for high power boxes, but I've found that mine does pretty damn well cooling a OC'd processor and two GPU's. The downside is that it generates a lot of heat in a small 12x12 room. I usually leave my ceiling fan on to keep some air movement in the room.

Don't bother with the add-on fan for the Reserator BTW, it doesn't help.

Here's a link to my build, specs and a few pictures are in there:
http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=32742