water + i7 + sff

The alternative to direct air cooling

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akromatic
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water + i7 + sff

Post by akromatic » Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:04 am

im rather new to WC and stock/silverstone HSF doesnt cut it

i want to WC(preferably internal) just the i7 CPU(with mild OCs) in the SG03 case

can i get away with a 120mm rad?

or any other cooling suggestions,

I have 2 hard drives in the case as well as 2 GTX260 in SLi

Jipa
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Post by Jipa » Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:12 pm

You've really loaded that thing! Gosh...

Anyway your question instantly brought THIS to my mind. I don't think it's available yet, but should be out soon, and should also provide better performance than "high performance air cooler" let alone the low-profile Silverstone cooler.

Also seeing the results there (albeit provided by Corsair) I'd say you MIGHT be good with just a single 120 mm rad if you can't fit a dual (dunno if the cards allow?) Just couple that with something like Swiftech Apogee Drive, and you should be good. With such a small rad, it's not going to be even remotely silent, though.
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akromatic
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Post by akromatic » Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:08 pm

hmm so you think a single 120mm rad is okish...

well i can fit a 240mm rad provided its not much thicker then 25mm(black ice pro, if i can get that in australia) but then i've to sacrifice graphics card cooling and i cant place a fan on the bottom half of the rad

i'd be happy if it can cool like a TRUE(doesnt have to beat it) and decently quiet but it doesnt have to be silent

well im new to WC but im thinking something like a GTZ+XSPC RS120+DDC kinda thing

Jipa
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Post by Jipa » Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:21 pm

It would be pretty heroic to stuff Core i7 + SLI + two disks and a 240 rad into that case :D I felt like it was full with just normal low-end setup.

Still not sure about the rad, tried to google something, but no luck there. It just would make sense for a 120-sized rad to be about in par with 120-sized cooler :roll: I have a 240-sized rad with the fans at low, cooling E6750@3,2 GHz + P35 + 8800GT, and the temperatures are easily lower than with air cooling (air using a Xigmatek HDT-S1283).

I hope someone has actually tested the cooling power of a single 120 mm rad, and pops by to tell the results. Until then, good luck!

EDIT: Q6600 1,5 V on 120 and 140 mm rads: http://www.xtremesystems.org/Forums/sho ... p?t=210081 nice temps there, methinks.
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akromatic
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Post by akromatic » Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:59 pm

hmm cept that the Q6600 is 108W TDP for B3 and 95W for G0 which is far from the 130W from a i7

LodeHacker
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Post by LodeHacker » Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:55 pm

akromatic wrote:hmm cept that the Q6600 is 108W TDP for B3 and 95W for G0 which is far from the 130W from a i7
Can we have pictures of the setup by any chance? I'm interested to know how everything works in such a small case, and of course to get an idea of the airflow if there is any :D
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Jipa
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Post by Jipa » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:37 am

akromatic wrote:hmm cept that the Q6600 is 108W TDP for B3 and 95W for G0 which is far from the 130W from a i7
True, but then again, the Q6600 wasn't running at stock voltage (1,3 V-ish), the TDP doesn't tell the whole story, and the temperatures achieved in the test were GOOD, so even with a bit higher wattage, the temperatures should still be lower than those achieved using the boxed/Silverstone coolers.

But this is already pretty theoretical :)
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velis
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Post by velis » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:06 am

I have an E8400 + 8800GTS + chipset cooled with a Reserator 2. Chasis is Antec's P180. I had to install a temporary solution while the Reserator was in repairs and this solution had just one single 120mm rad, mounted on chasis 120mm fan out. The rad was still in the case. It was also the shallow version (30mm) instead of "extreme" which are around 45mm.

The combined power usage of my computer is ~110W idle, up to 170W load, measured before power supply.
This one single rad cooled the entire setup, but barely. It could take about two hours of "light" gaming before overheating. Idle / desktop use was just fine 24/7 though the temps were quite high in the chasis (some 15° C above "normal" setup).
So for cooling three components such a radiator is definitely not good enough.
It can take one single procesor IMO. The most power hungry component in my setup is 8800GTS anyway so it was expected that not much gaming will be done on the backup loop.

The good thing about this temporary solution was that the entire system was contaied within the chasis, so for a while I could even move my computer around :) Not possible with Reserator.

spartan117
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Post by spartan117 » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:12 pm

If you planned to water cool all the main parts ie cpu / gpu / hdds then a single 120 rad is not gona cut it, you need a single 120 rad just for the i7 if you plan to run it with any sort of quite fan.

Another factor is the quality of the rad, some have higher flow rates some have higher fin density, shop around :)

pre-built kits such as the corsair H50 have only average performance, you better off with a starter kit from XSPC http://www.xspc.biz/kits.php also leaves possibility of expansion later on :)
P182, Q6600 G0 2.4Ghz, XFX 8800GTS 320MB, Zalman reserator XT, 6GB DDR2, 1Tb WD green, 250Gb Seagate, 80Gb Intel xm25m,Corsair Hx520, Windows 7 Professional, Dell 2407, LG Flatron 17"

mark19891989
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Post by mark19891989 » Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:41 am

for an i7 alone your going to need more then a 120mm rad.
specs:E8400@4ghz,4gb ddr2 1066, DFI LP jr p45-t2rs,Super talent 64gb ssd,8800gts @ 513/792/1674, 8800gt @ 555/800/1782 corsair tx650
Cooling:XSPC Acrylic top, MCP355, D-TEK FuZion v2,XSPC RS360 Black,swiftech MCW60,D-TEK FuZion GFX+uni sink,EK-NB S-MAX
Server/htpc: Zotac GeForce 9300-ITX-I-E - E5200 - 4gb ddr2 800 - 2* 1.5tb f2 drives- Pico PSU - minja

~El~Jefe~
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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:10 pm

3x 120 mm rad that sit on top of case. can a fan controller and rip off any pretty shrouds.

theres a few 3x120mm setups. they seem to take a decent amount of heat.

I think of it his way:

each hot item normally would get a 120mm fan on it. Maybe even 2 if you undervolt. Although it's pricey, you could really do well with 2x triple fan radiators set at like 5-6 volts. I am into all things external. I guess resevoir and pump could go in the machine though.

Merlinen
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Post by Merlinen » Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:29 am

mark19891989 wrote:for an i7 alone your going to need more then a 120mm rad.
No 1x 120mm is enuff.

I am atm building my setup inside a Coolermaster Elit 340.
I am testing if i am only gona run 1x120mm rad or 1x240mm rad och both.

1x120mm rad with 2x120mm Nexus@7v in puss-pull config and i am running the CPU @4.2Ghz in 1.3v (bios) and after 18h of linpack it top out on about 72c.

So if you are only gona cool the CPU 1x120mm is enuff.

My rad and block is 120mm BiE and EK Supreme LT block.
Workstation : Core i7 2600k | Asus P8P67-m PRO | Asus DCII 7970 | 16GB Corsair 2000Mhz | 2x Intel 510 120GB + Samsung 830 | Corsair AX850 | TJ08-e Water Cooled |
Server : ESX 4.1 | Areca 1680+HP SAS Expander | 2x80gb Intel X25-m | 16x3TB Hitatchi | APC SMART-UPS 1500 |
HTPC : EeeBox + Boxee Box + another SFF pc.

Olle P
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Post by Olle P » Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:54 am

~El~Jefe~ wrote:I think of it his way:
each hot item normally would get a 120mm fan on it. ... Although it's pricey, you could really do well with 2x triple fan radiators set at like 5-6 volts.
That's pushing it too far. Unless you run the computer (bot GPU and CPU at once) at full load for a prolonged time the water will store some/most of the heat during peaks and dump it off when the load is lower, smoothing any temperature gradients.

That way you can get away with less fan and fin area for a wc setup than with regular heatpipe cooling. The more water the less cooling surface and fan power is needed to achieve sufficient cooling.

Cheers
Olle

mark19891989
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Post by mark19891989 » Sun Nov 08, 2009 3:30 am

Merlinen wrote:
mark19891989 wrote:for an i7 alone your going to need more then a 120mm rad.
No 1x 120mm is enuff.

I am atm building my setup inside a Coolermaster Elit 340.
I am testing if i am only gona run 1x120mm rad or 1x240mm rad och both.

1x120mm rad with 2x120mm Nexus@7v in puss-pull config and i am running the CPU @4.2Ghz in 1.3v (bios) and after 18h of linpack it top out on about 72c.

So if you are only gona cool the CPU 1x120mm is enuff.

My rad and block is 120mm BiE and EK Supreme LT block.
I woundnt consider 72C to be an acctable temperature, but that is just my opinion, moust users i see with an i7 only loop have atleast a 2.120 rad, and i have seen people compain about the temperatures they get with that

see here: http://www.overclock.net/water-cooling/ ... great.html i know this one is on overclock.net . but the temps this user states are at stock.
specs:E8400@4ghz,4gb ddr2 1066, DFI LP jr p45-t2rs,Super talent 64gb ssd,8800gts @ 513/792/1674, 8800gt @ 555/800/1782 corsair tx650
Cooling:XSPC Acrylic top, MCP355, D-TEK FuZion v2,XSPC RS360 Black,swiftech MCW60,D-TEK FuZion GFX+uni sink,EK-NB S-MAX
Server/htpc: Zotac GeForce 9300-ITX-I-E - E5200 - 4gb ddr2 800 - 2* 1.5tb f2 drives- Pico PSU - minja

Merlinen
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Post by Merlinen » Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:50 am

Well 72c is imo more than OK after 18h of linpack on a i7 920 (@4200Mhz).
Usually i never se temp over 65c after 6-10h of gaming or 3d cad rendering.

If i remember correct my i7 920 did run with Stock cooler at stock speed at about 75-77c after a few hour on linpack.
Workstation : Core i7 2600k | Asus P8P67-m PRO | Asus DCII 7970 | 16GB Corsair 2000Mhz | 2x Intel 510 120GB + Samsung 830 | Corsair AX850 | TJ08-e Water Cooled |
Server : ESX 4.1 | Areca 1680+HP SAS Expander | 2x80gb Intel X25-m | 16x3TB Hitatchi | APC SMART-UPS 1500 |
HTPC : EeeBox + Boxee Box + another SFF pc.

ascl
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Post by ascl » Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:30 pm

72c core temp is okay under Linpack load, depending on your ambient temps.

Prime95 will likely run 10c (or more) cooler than linpack... so it really should be fine.

In my experience people tend to over estimate how much radiator is required, but we need to keep in mind there are 3 major factors at play here (yes there are others, tube size, cpu block etc).
1. Rad Size
2. Fan Speed
3. Ambient Temp

It IS possible to have a small rad with high speed fan and get better air/water delta than with a large rad and low speed fans. Hence talking about rad size by itself, is not always useful. Of course, we are on the SPCR forums, so we can make some assumptions about fan speed... but we are still talking a (n approx, depends on rad obviously) range of 200w -> 500w dissipated (at 10c delta, triple rad) with fans between 600 and 1500 rpm.

So, a single rad (assuming linear scaling), with 1500 rpm fans, can manage about 500/3 (170-ish) watts at a 10c delta, which is enough for an i7... at least one that isn't overclocked. OTOH a triple rad can dissipate more heat, with 600 rpm fans, which should be quieter.

I also mention ambient temp. As someone that currently lives in a hot climate, it has always frustrated me a little when people post temps without mentioning ambient temps (I apologise if I missed it in this thread, this is a general rant!). Comparing my CPU temps when my a/c is struggling to maintain 28c ambients, to someone with 15c ambients.... is just not gonna work! :)

EDIT: Oops forgot to say, my figures are based on skinee's reviews... if you don't know about them, you should!:
http://www.skinneelabs.com/Radiators/Tr ... es-V2.html

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