Fanless A64 With Reserator and Phantom

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gitto
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Fanless A64 With Reserator and Phantom

Post by gitto » Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:29 pm

Well, system build time is nearing this month and I'd like some feedback from all the knowledgable types here. I think my planned system is possible, if perhaps a bit dangerous or at least not recomended. So without furthur ado:

What I already have and are re-using:

A clanging Reserator with CPU and GPU blocks
A perfectly fine Antec Phantom
and a Smartdrive 2002C

What I want:

Motherboard : Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe
CPU : AMD Athlon 64 3500 Winchester
GPU : Gecube X800 XL
RAM : Corsair TwinX 3200XL 1GB kit
Hard Drive : Samsung SP1614C Nidec
Case : Lian-Li PC-V1000

What I don't want:


Any fans

To expand!

I want the A8N-SLI for the board layout, not the SLI. I can use the largish Zalman waterblock on the GPU, and still have 3 PCI slots and 1 PCI-express slot free. This is important as I will be using my internal PCI ADSL modem and Audigy 2 ZS, and might want to throw a TV-tuner card in later too.

I like the Gecube X800 XL because it doesn't require an external power connector, so I suspect it will have a lower heat dissipation than some of the X800 XL GPU's that do require external power. It's also the cheapest X800 XL card available in Australia.

After much procrastination I've chosen the SP1614C for my hard disk drive. The Maxline III 300GB is very tempting though. I might go for the Maxtor instead if I cant find a Nidec motor. I think i will initially have the Smartdrive hard mounted in the case. If this proves too noisy, I can remove the hard drive bays from the case and place the Smartdrive on foam in the bottom of the Lian-Li.

I want the PC-V1000 because aluminium cools better, and it keeps aliens from invading Earth, and it teaches me Spanish as I sleep ;) . OK seriously now...I want it for the isolation chamber for the PSU, the handy space that can be created in the 3.5" bay area if i need to soft-mount the Smartdrive, and all the holes should help convection. I also love its looks.

To deal with the northbridge, I will buy another Zalman waterblock kit, and use the ATI block on the northbridge. Unless anyone can assure me I will be able to get the Nvidia block onto the ATI graphics card?

I know one fan is at least recomended. But even when my Reserator's pump was working in its initial "silent" way, I could hear it late at night. The Reserator review says it is quieter than any fan. But if you all say this will end in a fireball, I will import a Nexus (or a couple while I'm at it) from America.

I am intent on fixing the Reserator pump from its clanging / hard drive seek noise. If I succeed, I'll post pictures.

If anyone is wondering about the optical drive....I'm using a 4Kus (woo!) CDRW until the PX-716SA finally works smoothly (and is available in Aus)

So...possible? Exciting? I'm a raving lunatic? Feedback, pretty please :)

Hetaro
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Post by Hetaro » Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:42 am

Considering that you are gonna use the Phantom, I would recommend you to have at least a 120 mm fan for hot air exhaust. The using of the second one (intake) is up to you. Bare in mind that there are plenty of silent 120 mm fans, especially when used at 5v.
Last edited by Hetaro on Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

Rusty075
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Post by Rusty075 » Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:42 am

I would bet that you'll end up needing an exhaust fan. Even with the WC pulling a lot of the heat outside the case, there's still going to be other components in there getting hot. The VR circuitry on the motherboard in particular can get super hot if left with zero airflow. (sticking some RAM sinks to the mosfets may help some)

A nexus/globe/panaflo at 5 volts would probably be enough airflow, and its noise will probably be below the ambient noise in the room and noise from the HDD anyway.

Of course, there's nothing stopping you from trying it fanless first, and then adding a fan later if it looks like you need.

In my reserator cooled system the Nvidia block fit just fine on the NB, with the Ati block on my 9500, but its a much different board than your's.

gitto
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Post by gitto » Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:52 pm

Thanks for the help guys.

I will try it fanless first, with heatsinks on the capacitators and mosfets. So thats the only potential problem?

A non-silencing question. Whats the deal with using RAM at speeds higher than 400mhz on the AMD 64? Is there a better choice of RAM I can choose? I just remember reading somewhere that you don't have a use for higher than 400mhz with the Athlon 64s :?:

nici
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Post by nici » Sat Mar 05, 2005 8:38 am

gitto wrote:Thanks for the help guys.

I will try it fanless first, with heatsinks on the capacitators and mosfets. So thats the only potential problem?

A non-silencing question. Whats the deal with using RAM at speeds higher than 400mhz on the AMD 64? Is there a better choice of RAM I can choose? I just remember reading somewhere that you don't have a use for higher than 400mhz with the Athlon 64s :?:
As the multiplier is locked on all but the FX-line of A64, you need to increse FSB speed to overclock, and its preferable if the memory is working at the same speed as the FSB. The memory is the hardest part of computer parts to know well imo, with a truck load of different parameters that can be adjusted. And i know very little about these..


Anyway, i have got the impression that A64 CPUs benefit quite a lot when using low latency memory, and switching the command rate(correct?) from 2T to 1T also improves performance. Not something that the ddr400 memory i have would manage :lol:

zds
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Post by zds » Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:05 am

As a reminder, when determining the available slots, remember that you can only use the primary PCI-E-x16 slot in single video card configuration. The lower one is only for SLI mode.

This means that there is not so much room between chipset and graphics card. I have Asus X800 XT with Zalman waterblock and smaller Zalman northbridge heatsink and PAPST 40mm fan cooling chipset and I can say it's a tight fit. Granted, the PAPST+Zalman heatsink is high construction, but there is anyway not too much clearance between chipset and GPU tubes.

Other than that I give thumbs up to your plans. I am running aforementioned Athlon64 3500+ and X800 XT on Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe motherboard and cooling them with Reserator works just fine. Reserator heats up more than with older machine, especially when playing modern games for hours, but it's still just mildly warm to touch and cooling is more than sufficient.

What is a slight problem is cooling the memory chips. As I have X800 XT, the memory chips run at gigahertz speed the small heatsinks Zalman ships with GPU waterblock are barely adequate in low-airflow chassis. I am yet to clean up cable mess inside chassis after last installation and I can say that it's easy to get the memories overheat if you do not put some effort in making sure the air flows smoothly inside the chassis.

I also tried passive cooling for chipset, but the heatsink became *very* hot and I had strange booting problems, so I decided to get smaller heatsink and add quiet 40mm fan to it. The PAPST fan I am using runs now at some 6 volts and is pretty much inaudible when chassis is closed and very quiet altogether. Of course I plan to put it on still lower voltage when I have time to solder some resistor to it, but it's this is more an obsession thing than something that really affects the overall noise signature (if I can make some part quieter, I will, did it really matter or not :-)).

gitto
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Post by gitto » Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:22 pm

Thanks zds, very helpful :)

After looking at a lot of pics, I'm sure the zalman waterblock will fit on the northbridge. Its base is 3.5cm squared, the higher bit is only 2cm wide. But what I am worried about now is the space between the GPU waterblock and the northbridge waterblock. It looks like the ends of the two will be quite close. Could you measure the distance between the end of the GPU waterblock and your northbridge please zds, or even take a picture?

I thought DDR3 was meant to be cool-running? I might try to find some larger heatsinks for the memory chips then.

zds
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Post by zds » Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:26 pm

Here:


Image

Sorry, image quality is poor and angle is weak, but as my MB is inside chassis, chassis is on the floor and my camera is cheap it's really hard to take decent images of the installation. Units are centimeters.

But anyway, as you can see, in longer direction of the VGA card there is only some 2-2.5cm space between GPU block and chipset. In height there is more room, if you go for waterblock: my chipset cooling solution is 57mm tall, and the tube still barely can go over it.

So, to conclude, I think you should be able to make it fit, if you can keep chipset waterblock and tubing lower than some 55mm; if you put chipset waterblock in the same direction as the GPU block tubing is, it should nicely go around all the MB components. This means you cannot maybe use the topmost one of two x1 PCI-E slots, but GPU block already puts restrictions to them.

Oh, and I'd double-check that Reserator pump is powerful enough to pump through all three waterblocks. I've understood that Reserator pump is pretty low-power, so it can just run the two blocks but not much else. But hey, please report in this thread if you succeed, I'd maybe like to use similar construction, too :-).

And when it comes to memories: I do not know about DDR3 power consumption levels, only thing I know is that they are faster than the previous revisions. But keep in mind that X800 XT is one of the most, if not the most powerful single-card stock-video card setup there is. The memory is ticking at some 1.1+GHz speed, so whatever power consumption advantage there is, ATI has certainly added more clockspeed to use all that reserve.

But X800 XL should heat up much less, since it's not tuned to the extreme, so with proper airflow and Zalman memory heatsinks included with Reserator you should have no problems.

zds
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Post by zds » Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:20 pm

I found some pictures from time when mobo was not in chassis. I actually ran the machine almost a month just on top of the cardboard box to make sure everything works - and it was almost quiet enough even there, right before my ears.

The first picture shows stock Asus chipset cooler, which is really slim but noisy. PSU in the images is just a temporary one, not the Nexus I use now.

Image

Image

Image

gitto
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Post by gitto » Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:40 pm

If it fits inline, it looks like it will be a tight fit. If it doesn't, I'll find another way to route the tubing - perhaps going in the outlet of your GPU block, then coming back around 180 to go into the northbridge block, then out of the case. I'll find a way!

And yes, I'll do a full write-up in the gallery once I'm done.

zds
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Post by zds » Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:22 pm

I'd probably go for Y-dividers and putting GPU and chipset in parallel with each other. I think a parallel section would obstruct waterflow much less than 180 turns..

Or then put chipset before CPU in the loop and GPU after it - chipset doesn't warm water so much and there is tons of heat headroom in the Athlon64 with Reserator. My processor runs at some 45 degrees centigrade (not so accurate, from uncalibrated BIOS reading), so there's some 20 to 25 degrees still to go before CPU starts to be even close to overheating.
Last edited by zds on Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

gitto
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Post by gitto » Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:33 pm

Yes! I'll put the chipset before the CPU in the loop. Great idea zds :)

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