CM Stacker or Lian-Li V2100 best choice for monster storage?

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fergy
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CM Stacker or Lian-Li V2100 best choice for monster storage?

Post by fergy » Thu Jul 28, 2005 2:58 am

Trying to choose between the CM Stacker and Lian-Li V2100 for a system that I'm gathering components for currently. Before you all ROFL, I know it ain't going to be quiet, let alone silent, but would like it to be quiet(er).

Box will be containing:
- AMD X2 4400 with Scythe Ninja (plus fan)
- Gigabyte K8NXP-SLI with 2G RAM
- Gigabyte 6600GT video (the fanless heatpipe model)
- 2 DVD-WR
- 8 HD in mixture of Raid-1, Raid-5 to support system/data, video-editing work areas and video archive (about 1.2TB so far)
- Audiophile 2496 audio card (transferred from current system)
- for PSU, am inclined toward Antec Truepower II 550W ( for further headroom as disk expanded) - but wish SPCR would review it!
(Can't source Seasonic here in Australia, otherwise would head for them)

Seems to me the V2100 offers greater expansion space, but possibly worse airflow - as implied by Lian-Li's '+' model, where they're fiddling with airflow measures that don't seem very workable to me.
The Stacker with 2 (or even 3) 4in3 modules give me the room and some expansion space, but that's a hell of a lot of fans in there...

Have seen lots of happy users of both sorts of boxes in these forums, but haven't seen anybody trying to really fill them up - any user experience or thoughts would be appreciated - I can wait a few days as Stacker's seem to be out of stock just at the moment around here (maybe due to the new Stacker models coming soon?).

peterson
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Post by peterson » Thu Jul 28, 2005 3:33 am

I have the Stacker and tested the 4in3 module when i got the case. The search noise isn't damped at all IMHO. At least very little.
But the fans aren't very loud so you'll get good cooling and airflow in the case. Maybe their position isn't the optimal...
If i had a need of many HDDs and wasn't as concerned ab out noise as i am, i'd use the Stacker. But then i've no experience of Lian Li at all.

fergy
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Post by fergy » Mon Aug 01, 2005 12:45 am

Thanks peterson -seems like nobody else is interested, or willing to stick their neck out.
Maybe quiet-ish and lots of disks just don't go together...

Found a Stacker case at a good price so bought it anyway, but still lacking vital bits (like PSU, CPU and board!) so will be a little while before I find out what I've created....

Bluefront
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Post by Bluefront » Mon Aug 01, 2005 4:08 am

You know there is probably nobody on these forums with that many hard drives in any computer......much less in those particular cases. You're asking for specific info about which there is little/no knowledge available.

I've seen the Stacker case....but that's it. As far as quieting eight drives in one case, you're probably on your own. That's not to say pulling it off is impossible, just that you may be the first around here to attempt it.

If I had a need for that much storage, I'd set up a big server in the basement.......

fergy
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Post by fergy » Mon Aug 01, 2005 5:08 am

Fair comment.
But given that SPCRing folks have bought such beasts (my view from searching other posts), it sort of creates the question of - if you're not going to use the space, why buy such a big box?

I'll allow that they do give plenty of room for water-cooling rigs, and the Stacker was always sold on the premise of allowing 2 PSUs, but I don't see people doing that. Which is maybe why the new Stacker 820 only has room for one...

Bluefront
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Post by Bluefront » Mon Aug 01, 2005 5:19 am

Big cases? I'm using a big case, but only have two hard drives. The added space is being used for a project air-cooling system, along with a custom HD cooling/quieting system.

Bigger cases are easier to modify..... :lol:

link

|Romeo|
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Post by |Romeo| » Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:58 am

Not sure how I didn't see this thread before...

Anyway. The Stacker isn't really a quiet case, it's not so bad, but the panels are (of necessity) so large that they can resonate a lot.

The 4in3 modules aren't wonderful at reducing seek noise, but obviously they are better than hard mounting. The stock fans are loud, like pretty much any stock fan. They are held in place by plastic pins which are awkward to remove because of where they are situated -you need long needle nose pliers.

Mine sits in a closet which mutes it quite a lot. I wouldn't be able to concentrate if it was next to me.

I have 2.3TB of storage or so in it however, so it's never going to be silent.

ddrueding1
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Post by ddrueding1 » Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:36 am

My server uses a Stacker...here is the specs:

CM Stacker
Antec SmartPower 2.0 500W
AMD 300+ "Venice" with Zalman 7700+
Gigabyte K8NXP-SLI
2GB PC3200 Mushkin
PCIe X300
3Ware Escalage 8506-8
3x Supermicro 5-in-3 hotswap SATA enclosures
12x Seagate 400GB 7200.8 SATA drives
2x WD "Raptor" 74GB 10k Drives

Nowhere even close to quiet, but it certainly stays cool!

fergy
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Post by fergy » Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:26 am

Thanks guys. Nothing there that frightens me too much.
Always figured I'd have to attack the 4in3 modules anyway - there seems to be too much metal for good airflow, as well as need for fan replacement.. The relative flimsiness of the side panels did surprise me, so resonance could well be an issue.

The fact you have good cooling even when its bays are full is reassuring.

Still can't find a power supply locally, so build is stopped for the moment...

BassKozz
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Post by BassKozz » Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:26 pm

been hearing alot about "4in3 modules" for the CM stacker... What are they?

doing research...
I am trying to decide between the P180 and the CM stacker for a fileserver.
Thanks,
-BassKozz

JazzJackRabbit
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Post by JazzJackRabbit » Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:30 pm

http://www.paradigit.nl/pdf/10009215v.html

That's the 4in3 module. P180 while being significantly quiter than Stacker is not very well suited for the fileserver as it can only fit 6 hard drives w/o using 5.25 bays and those don't have a very good cooling.

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Re: CM Stacker or Lian-Li V2100 best choice for monster stor

Post by matt_garman » Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:51 pm

fergy wrote:Trying to choose between the CM Stacker and Lian-Li V2100 for a system that I'm gathering components for currently. Before you all ROFL, I know it ain't going to be quiet, let alone silent, but would like it to be quiet(er).
I have no experience with either of those models, but I do own a Chenbro SR107 (specifically, the black SR10769). Eventually, this will be my fileserver, but I don't have the cash flow to put all the drives in it. There is at least one other person in the forums here who has used this case to build a substantial machine (should be easy to find with the search).

My question is this: for the CM and Lian-Li cases, how much space is there between hard drives? In the SR107, each drive will be just shy of touching the drives above and below it. In my opinion, this necessitates maximum airflow. I keep mine in the basement so I can run the jet engines (i.e. the stock fans) full-on. On the other hand, if the cases you mention give you a little breathing room between each drive, then you may be able to get away with slower fans (which implies potentially quieter operation).

Hope that helps!
Matt

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Post by Sizzle » Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:19 pm

The new Stacker 830 is gorgeous! However, it does not look like it's at all suited for quietness. It also looks like it would collect a lot of dust if it were not up on a desk.

Thomas
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Post by Thomas » Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:49 am

First, I havent seen a Stacker in real life, so this is just some thoughts :wink:

Maybe it's woth trying NoVibe III to suspend all these HDD's in the 5 1/4 inch bays. That should help a lot on HDD noise, but there's still the challenge of cooling. Is there room for fans in front of the NoVibe's? Or can fans somehow be attatched on the rear of the NoVibe's/HDD's to suck air over them? The next Q, which probably is the biggest challenge silence wise, is if it's possible to do something with the front bezel, which BOTH allow good airflow AND prevent direct noise paths. Maybe something like closing all bays, except the lowest ones (air intake) and then make a wall (cardboard?) behind the drives, except in the top, where there should be a fan sucking the warm air into the rest of the case...

Or you can use a buttom mounted PSU, then mount all the HDD's in NoVibes at the buttom of the case and make a air duct / PSU HDD cage similar to the P180. Probably a fan is needed to help the PSU 8)

fergy
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Post by fergy » Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:53 am

Well, I guess since I started this thread originally I ought to finish it.

I built the monster and its not toooo bad noise-wise. But I did apply SPCR principles in a lot of places. I'd say the result is 'under-the-desk' quiet.

To address some of the questions in the previous posts:
- the 4in3 modules, when fully loaded with 4 drives, leave a few mm of space between each drive (I'm not going to rip one out to measure it), but its plenty of room for airflow from the front 4in3 fan to push cool air across
- the 4in3 modules have 4 hard rubber grommet thingies to provide an indirect mounting approach between the drive cage and the plates that provide the connection to the 5 1/4" mount points. Nothing as good as rubber suspension of course but better than nothing
- no idea what the stock fans are like on the Stacker - I ripped them all out before I started, then replaced them all with Nexus. The Nexus 120's in front of each 4in3 are also on rubber mount pins (as in fact are ALL the fans except the Nexus clipped to the Ninja)
- I probably overdid the cooling a bit but the case fan behind the Ninja plus the Nexus blowing through it also help to keep the drive air continuing to move through the case
- I wanted to use the bottom PSU bay rather than the top one, but had problems with the cable length for MB power. Of course I can buy cable extenders now, but couldn't source them then. So added 2 small Nexus's in the bottom of the case, which also helps the airflow
- also sealed the crazy unfiltered bottom holes in the case to improve straight-thru airflow
- did not use the top blowhole fan as there is so much cable around that area I couldn't see it would do any good except add noise
- the case sides don't resonate - the right side probably could in some builds but its wedged against cable
- noisiest thing would be the stupid fan on the MB - haven't attacked that.

So noise isn't bad considering there's 16 electric motors running in there.....

OzWiz
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Post by OzWiz » Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:13 pm

I took a different approach for my video server, based on the same two cases.

I chose the Lian-Li v2100. I do use a Coolermaster 4 in 3 module in my Coolermaster Wave case. I find the stock fan relatively loud and plan to replace it.

My v2100 has:

8 Seagate 500GB drives in a RAID 5 config
2 WD Raptor 74GB drives
MSI K8N Neo Platinum SLI
AMD 64 X2 4800+
MSI 7800GTX video
Antec Phantom 500 PSU
and some other stuff.

I cool it with the Zalman Reserator 1 plus, which I must admit is my new favorite mod. Really makes the difference on noise.

I replaced the two ADDA stock fans on the v2100 with Nexus 120mm fans, slowed by connecting them to the motherboard and using SpeedFan.

My biggest issue is keeping the second column of drives (away from the 120mm intake fan) cool. I will need to either add 80mm fans above the PSU or suspend a 120mm fan next to the seond column to push more air out of the case.

Hard to hear much of anything in most scenarios, although some of the virbration that is talked about elsewhere is occasionally (but not always) noticeable.

fergy
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Post by fergy » Sat Feb 04, 2006 5:25 pm

OzWiz, your issue with disk cooling was one of the things that turned me off the V2100 - it seems illogical to expect hot air to rush past the drives and exit out the bottom. Especially if you have lots of drives in the 2nd stack, which has a wall facing the fan.

I was also concerned that Lian-Li put out the + version of the V-series cases, with more airmoving attachments in the upper chamber - looked to me as if airflow there wasn't working properly either. Plus all those holes in the case everywhere might be good for hot air 'leakage', but seemed to me to be good for noise exiting and dust incoming as well.

So I'm pretty happy I went for the Stacker in the end (plus its a lot cheaper!)

OzWiz
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Post by OzWiz » Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:51 am

Fergy

What did you use to attach the Nexus fans to the 4 in 3? I am going to replace the stock fan on mine, but am curious what to use to anchor the fans on to the device.

Thanks,

Tom

fergy
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Post by fergy » Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:25 pm

Well its fiddly but I pulled out the existing pins that hold the stock fans, but found them impossible to reuse (and they're probably to stiff to be a 'soft' mount).
Dremeled out the Nexus fans to create corner lugs rather than the 'straight-through' corners they have as standard. There's a guide to doing this in these SPCR forums - you should find it with a search -you can Dremel or just use hacksaw and pliers.
Bought some soft rubber sort of fan-mount pins - were hard to find locally, but I think you have a better choice in the US. Used those to remount the fans. Very sore on the fingers when you do 5 of them in one night(!) as I did as I soft-mounted everything in the case. Tried using pliers but found it was too easy to pull too hard and rip the things apart....

Then I sold off the stock fans on eBay........

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Post by Sizzle » Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:56 am

Which stacker did you end up going with? I broke down and got a CM Stacker 830. I'll be posting in the gallery soon. I've actually had good success with it. My hard drives are the only noise, so I'm planning some type of enclosure to take care of that. Though I don't think I'm running as many hdd's as you.

fergy
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Post by fergy » Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:56 pm

It was the original Stacker (STC101 I think is the code - before they went to the 800-number scheme). The 830 was announced but not available when I bought, but I wanted the original as had intended to mount the PSU at the bottom. Ran into trouble with power cable length to the top of the motherboard, so gave up and went back to 'normal' upstairs place. Of course extenders for 20/24pin PSU cables came into the shops about 2 weeks later......

Running 8 drives in 2 4in3 modules. There's a little bit of seek noise audible if heavy file I/O occurs, but I don't actually mind that - sort of comforting to hear things happening sometimes..

OzWiz
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Post by OzWiz » Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:02 am

Update on my Lian-Li v2100 disk heat issue.

I have attached a spare 120mm fan against the divider separating the disk chamber from the PSU chamber. That has brought all of my disk temperatures down dramatically. In fact the drive attached to my MOBO was at 29C today (idle).

This has fixed the problem, and now to experiment with speed adjustments to optimize the noise / cooling ratio.

Tom

inti
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Post by inti » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:55 am

I'm looking at using a Stacker for a mostly passive-cooled system with suspended hard drives - looking at suspending 8 hard drives in there for a 2TB file server. Individual drives will be in the spun-down state when not in use. Low powered under-volted CPU, and the only fans will be three 120mm Nexus at 5V for the drives.

I think the Stacker STC-T01 looks good for this purpose because of the huge number of 5.25" bays which look ready-made for suspension - also the full front grill for great airflow across all drives.

With no door (unlike the Lian Li V2100) it is obviously not going to be a silent case, so component choice is critical.

OzWiz
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Post by OzWiz » Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:44 am

Will you configure the 8 drives as RAID? If so, what card will you use?

I am unable to spin my drives down with my Raidcore card.

Tom

nick705
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Post by nick705 » Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:53 am

OzWiz wrote:Will you configure the 8 drives as RAID? If so, what card will you use?

I am unable to spin my drives down with my Raidcore card.

Tom
If you're running Linux, you can use hdparm (with the -S parameter) to spin down the drives with a timeout of your choice.

Provided Linux recognises your adapter of course, although a quick google seems to suggest Broadcom products are supported... :)

inti
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Post by inti » Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:39 am

No, no RAID for me, it will be either JBOD or simply 8 separate hard drives (I think a PC on the network running Windows XP can be set up to recognise that as a single network drive with 8 subfolders - e.g. Photos, Home videos, Music etc). RAID is an anathema to quiet computing, because with a RAID array you necessarily have to have three or four drives spinning, and three or four simultaneous seeks for every data access: that makes for a lot of noise and vibration.

For the controller card I really want one that will be recognised by FreeNAS, which means it needs to have a FreeBSD driver. That may limit the choice - still researching this, ideally it should be a card based on a SiI3124 (or is that Sil3124) chip as it provides all the needed functionality at low cost, but it seems there is no FreeBSD driver for that chip. I know from experience that the older SiI3114 cards and something like the Promise SATA150 TX4 can spin down the drives in Windows, so hoping the same functionality will exist in FreeBSD.
Edited to add: It seems FreeNAS is based on the three-years-old FreeBSD 4, not the current FreeBSD 6. This means (I think) that FreeNAS will probably not support any current SATA controller cards.

If anybody knows of good NAS software for Linux, similar to FreeNAS, that would be a bonus...
Edited to add: Obviously I'm a Linux newbie. It seems most Linux distributions (for example 'INSERT') include Samba, which has an element named SWAT which is a web-interface remote administration tool similar to FreeNAS. Some configuration is required - this page is helpful http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/vi ... amba3.html

OzWiz
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Post by OzWiz » Wed May 31, 2006 5:55 am

I agree Inti, that the noise factor on a large RAID setup is a problem. At the same time, I am curious what your back up plans are? Backing up that amount of data is tough and expensive!

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