First, let me disclose the noise-relevant parts of my setup:
The CPU is a Palomino 2100+ (about as hot as a Barton) with a Zalman 6000AlCu on it. I start getting errors when my CPU reaches 65C, so I need to run the fan at a fairly noisy setting to prevent that.
The power supply is a 350W Fortron, normally fairly quiet, but it tends to ramp up from time to time.
The case is a cheap steel one that I got free with a $300 purchase, the case fan in it is an old Panaflo that I pulled out of an AT power supply. I keep this fan running on a fairly loud setting, because the case temp needs to be below 50C (at least that's what the diode says) for the HSF to do its job.
My room is usually somewhat warm, around 80F.
Undervolting isn't an option, because my motherboard won't allow it.
Underclocking isn't much of an option either, because I often play games and compile tarballs.
I'm on a tight budget, so a total overhaul is out of the question. I can spend up to about $150. I had a few ideas, so I'll list them along with the reasoning behind them:
1. Get an Athlon XP-M 2600+. I imagine this would be a big heat reduction from my current setup and allow me to turn down my fans.
2. Get a p180. This would isolate my PSU, muffle some of the fan/drive noise, and possibly give me lower case temps.
3. Get a new heatsink. I'm not crazy about this one, because it won't do anything for my power supply. Also, my options are fairly limited, because I have a socket A motherboard with no holes around the processor. The only way to mount a HS is on the 6 plastic lugs on the socket.
Which of these ideas would be most effective? Also, if you have any better ones, I'm open to suggestions.
John
On a budget, need advice
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
Re: On a budget, need advice
quizzicus wrote:I'm on a tight budget, so a total overhaul is out of the question. I can spend up to about $150.
Now, to be constructive. I really like the XP mobiles, so personally I would go with that option.
If you're looking for used, XP-M 2600s are rare, but there are plenty of 1.45V 2500s floating around on eBay; they seem to go for about $60~70 last time I checked.
New 2500+ are $85 on newegg; a 2600+ is $97 for a IMHO negligible performance rise.
1.45V gives you 45W output; your Palomino is rated at 72W, so yes, it's an improvement. 37.5% improvement to be exact. If you're eBaying, you can try to track down a 1.35V/35W version, these do exist and can be had at basically the same price as most people don't realize the advantages.
I am fairly sure that a standard heatsink fits on a XP-M, although you might want to get confirmation. The chip height could be the issue here.
If you're looking for used, XP-M 2600s are rare, but there are plenty of 1.45V 2500s floating around on eBay; they seem to go for about $60~70 last time I checked.
New 2500+ are $85 on newegg; a 2600+ is $97 for a IMHO negligible performance rise.
1.45V gives you 45W output; your Palomino is rated at 72W, so yes, it's an improvement. 37.5% improvement to be exact. If you're eBaying, you can try to track down a 1.35V/35W version, these do exist and can be had at basically the same price as most people don't realize the advantages.
I am fairly sure that a standard heatsink fits on a XP-M, although you might want to get confirmation. The chip height could be the issue here.
Now listen here. Don't spend any money yet. There is no reason that any computer should run with an ambient temperature of 50C. The are obviously some blatant problems with how your airflow is set up. It won't help spending money without identifying these, because you will most likely still have a very bad setup.
Now I know someone who had a Palomino 2000+ and got it to run consistently below 50C (cpu temp, not ambient), with no fancy components, just two 80mm case fans and an Evercool ND18 heatsink.
If I were you I would use the current system to learn more about cooling. Read more through the forum, ask questions, etc, to find out good ways of making that machine cooler. Post pictures if you like, that will make it easy for people to give constructive advice.
Once you know more about it, you can then spend the money more wisely.
As a start, let me say that ideally you want the hot air to leave the case as soon as possible. For me, that meant reversing the cpu fan so that it sucked air away from the motherboard. If you have a side panel fan or back fan near there, make it an exhaust and the hot air will leave immediately. Typically your 'mobo' temperature should be about 5C over ambient. That is already an improvement of 15C, which I think you can achieve with no money spent.
If you have a fanned power supply, make sure it blows out of the case. It must not blow into the case. If you have case fans at the back or on the side panel, make them all exhaust air. Sometimes you need to tape over holes at the back, like next to the PCI slots. If there are extra places at the back of the case for fans but you aren't using them, seal them with tape so the hot air can't reenter the case.
Now I know someone who had a Palomino 2000+ and got it to run consistently below 50C (cpu temp, not ambient), with no fancy components, just two 80mm case fans and an Evercool ND18 heatsink.
If I were you I would use the current system to learn more about cooling. Read more through the forum, ask questions, etc, to find out good ways of making that machine cooler. Post pictures if you like, that will make it easy for people to give constructive advice.
Once you know more about it, you can then spend the money more wisely.
As a start, let me say that ideally you want the hot air to leave the case as soon as possible. For me, that meant reversing the cpu fan so that it sucked air away from the motherboard. If you have a side panel fan or back fan near there, make it an exhaust and the hot air will leave immediately. Typically your 'mobo' temperature should be about 5C over ambient. That is already an improvement of 15C, which I think you can achieve with no money spent.
If you have a fanned power supply, make sure it blows out of the case. It must not blow into the case. If you have case fans at the back or on the side panel, make them all exhaust air. Sometimes you need to tape over holes at the back, like next to the PCI slots. If there are extra places at the back of the case for fans but you aren't using them, seal them with tape so the hot air can't reenter the case.
Vertigo has excellent points too often overlooked. You want to extract CPU heat out of the box asap,not leave it circulating inside to heat up everything. Artic Cooling 80mm TC (temp control) fans are $5 each and the low speed is a soft 1000 rpm. At $10 Coolermaster has a 120 that runs at 720 rpm,stock. You want your cheapo case to NOT have a front fan or hard mounted HD's. You can buy a dense foam backpacker pad for $10-15 glue it to some inside walls. Assuming that Mobile Athlon fits the mobo and can use your Zalman-that's pretty cost effective.
An old Panaflo from an AT PSU is not apt to be like the newer Panaflo-which is only a real winner once undervolted anyhow.
Plan B-just do the basic fan -airflow-damping,suspend the HD...cost under $40...and then save for a few months until you can get a Venice 3000 and a good but low frills-low cost mobo. In 4-6 months prices will have dropped so a cpu+mobo then could be $25 less than today....mabe even cheaper
An old Panaflo from an AT PSU is not apt to be like the newer Panaflo-which is only a real winner once undervolted anyhow.
Plan B-just do the basic fan -airflow-damping,suspend the HD...cost under $40...and then save for a few months until you can get a Venice 3000 and a good but low frills-low cost mobo. In 4-6 months prices will have dropped so a cpu+mobo then could be $25 less than today....mabe even cheaper
Well, I've been working on the noise/airflow thing for a while, so I had already made several improvements. Over the past 2 days though, I did everything I can think of with the hardware at hand.
I made a duct out of cardboard for my power supply. This takes cooling capacity away from the CPU, but it keeps the PSU from ramping. I also folded my data cables and routed all the cables as neatly as possible.
Suspending the hard drives would be tricky, because I have 3 of them (I might be able to lose one in a pinch). 120 mm fans are useless to me because my case has an 80mm mount in back and 2 in the front. The hard disks get pretty warm without a fan blowing on them, so I'm not sure about ditching my 1 front fan. (How hot can hard disks run?) My fans are already undervolted as far as they can go without risking errors (which, frankly, isn't very far).
A better case would support bigger fans, which I could then run slower. My PSU and hard drives wouldn't need extra cooling power if isolated from the motherboard. I'm leaning toward this option.
A cooler CPU would dump less heat into the case.
I took some pictures after I changed everything. Tell me if you spot further improvement.
The Motherboard:
Motherboard Landscape:
Chassis Front:
Right Panel:
Chassis Rear:
Chassis Right:
Front Bezel:
Left Panel:
[edit]Updated to use the thumbnailing technique I just discovered[/edit]
I made a duct out of cardboard for my power supply. This takes cooling capacity away from the CPU, but it keeps the PSU from ramping. I also folded my data cables and routed all the cables as neatly as possible.
Suspending the hard drives would be tricky, because I have 3 of them (I might be able to lose one in a pinch). 120 mm fans are useless to me because my case has an 80mm mount in back and 2 in the front. The hard disks get pretty warm without a fan blowing on them, so I'm not sure about ditching my 1 front fan. (How hot can hard disks run?) My fans are already undervolted as far as they can go without risking errors (which, frankly, isn't very far).
A better case would support bigger fans, which I could then run slower. My PSU and hard drives wouldn't need extra cooling power if isolated from the motherboard. I'm leaning toward this option.
A cooler CPU would dump less heat into the case.
I took some pictures after I changed everything. Tell me if you spot further improvement.
The Motherboard:
Motherboard Landscape:
Chassis Front:
Right Panel:
Chassis Rear:
Chassis Right:
Front Bezel:
Left Panel:
[edit]Updated to use the thumbnailing technique I just discovered[/edit]
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NeilBlanchard
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Okay, I see you have left the vents on the side panel open. I suppose you are hoping that cool air will enter there. It won't, and I will explain why.
You have divided the case into two sections, with that duct from the power supply. The bottom section has one 80mm fan exhausting air at the back and one 80mm fan sucking air in at the front. The problem is those two fans match each other, they move the same amount of air, so no positive or negative pressure results in the case. No air will move through those side vents because of this.
You need negative pressure for cold air to enter through the vents you leave open. That is why those fan grills are quite restrictive on that case, so that air will enter all over, from the sides and the front. It only has one 80mm case fan (at the back) after all.
Now you have a fan with the Zalman bracket, but that fan blows more air than the exhaust fan. In other words, the exhaust fan can never remove all the hot air. What will happen is more hot air will be produced than can be removed, and this will just continue, it is an unstable situation. The air inside the case will just get hotter and hotter. No wonder it gets up to 50C.
What you need is for more air to be exhausted than is made hot by the cpu heatsink. Also, if you can help the hot air to get to the exhaust fan it is better.
You have divided the case into two sections, with that duct from the power supply. The bottom section has one 80mm fan exhausting air at the back and one 80mm fan sucking air in at the front. The problem is those two fans match each other, they move the same amount of air, so no positive or negative pressure results in the case. No air will move through those side vents because of this.
You need negative pressure for cold air to enter through the vents you leave open. That is why those fan grills are quite restrictive on that case, so that air will enter all over, from the sides and the front. It only has one 80mm case fan (at the back) after all.
Now you have a fan with the Zalman bracket, but that fan blows more air than the exhaust fan. In other words, the exhaust fan can never remove all the hot air. What will happen is more hot air will be produced than can be removed, and this will just continue, it is an unstable situation. The air inside the case will just get hotter and hotter. No wonder it gets up to 50C.
What you need is for more air to be exhausted than is made hot by the cpu heatsink. Also, if you can help the hot air to get to the exhaust fan it is better.
Last edited by vertigo on Sun Aug 14, 2005 5:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
The way I see it, you have two choices here. Either you remove that power supply duct so the psu fan can help to exhaust hot air, or you use positive pressure.
If you use negative pressure, I would tape up that empty grille at the front, then ensure that the back 80mm fan runs no slower than the front fan. I would actually run that front fan as slow as possible. Your psu fan might ramp up, but that wouldn't be a bad thing because it would exhaust more. The noise might not be acceptable though.
The other option you have is to use positive pressure. You could run two intake fans at the front (bottom), and then leave the psu duct in place. The pressure created in the case would exhaust the air out the back. I would then remove that back fan and cut out the grille (or not, depending on whether I considered the air to not be escaping), so that it was not restrictive at all. You could even help it by building a small duct from that hole to nearer the cpu heatsink, so that the hot air would be removed more efficiently. This is the more technically challenging approach.
I would try negative pressure first. Run that back 80mm as fast as you can bear, and remove the psu duct so that it helps to exhaust hot air. If that runs cool enough, then try for more silence. The way to do that is to get a better heatsink. The ideal for me is a sucking fan on a conventional heatsink, because the hot air all comes out in one place and it is easier to remove efficiently.
Obviously you can then try to slow down the fans, but if the back fan runs slower than the psu fan the hot air will migrate to the psu, which will make it ramp up, which will make more hot air go there, etc. It's an unstable situation, as you can see. Just remember, instability caused the Chernobyl accident. It's a serious thing
If you use negative pressure, I would tape up that empty grille at the front, then ensure that the back 80mm fan runs no slower than the front fan. I would actually run that front fan as slow as possible. Your psu fan might ramp up, but that wouldn't be a bad thing because it would exhaust more. The noise might not be acceptable though.
The other option you have is to use positive pressure. You could run two intake fans at the front (bottom), and then leave the psu duct in place. The pressure created in the case would exhaust the air out the back. I would then remove that back fan and cut out the grille (or not, depending on whether I considered the air to not be escaping), so that it was not restrictive at all. You could even help it by building a small duct from that hole to nearer the cpu heatsink, so that the hot air would be removed more efficiently. This is the more technically challenging approach.
I would try negative pressure first. Run that back 80mm as fast as you can bear, and remove the psu duct so that it helps to exhaust hot air. If that runs cool enough, then try for more silence. The way to do that is to get a better heatsink. The ideal for me is a sucking fan on a conventional heatsink, because the hot air all comes out in one place and it is easier to remove efficiently.
Obviously you can then try to slow down the fans, but if the back fan runs slower than the psu fan the hot air will migrate to the psu, which will make it ramp up, which will make more hot air go there, etc. It's an unstable situation, as you can see. Just remember, instability caused the Chernobyl accident. It's a serious thing
Last edited by vertigo on Sun Aug 14, 2005 5:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
You can boost airflow a bit by moving the rear case fan to the other front intake, and sealing off the other side vent (which vertigo noted is currently useless).
Hmm...I see that vertigo already suggested this approach. But I disagree with his assessment that it's the more difficult one. It seems to me that the rear exhaust grill is already "cut out" (it's a wire grill), so the only thing needed to increase the exaust area is removing the fan (which blocks the circular area of the hub).
All you need to do is move that fan, and tape off the other side vent, and cut out the other front intake grill. Pretty simple, really.
After doing this, see what your CPU temperatures are like. If they're acceptable, you can reduce noise significantly by removing the CPU fan entirely and fashioning a simple duct from the rear exhaust to the CPU heatsink. This will likely have little effect one way or the other on CPU temperatures, but will reduce noise by eliminating the CPU fan.
Hmm...I see that vertigo already suggested this approach. But I disagree with his assessment that it's the more difficult one. It seems to me that the rear exhaust grill is already "cut out" (it's a wire grill), so the only thing needed to increase the exaust area is removing the fan (which blocks the circular area of the hub).
All you need to do is move that fan, and tape off the other side vent, and cut out the other front intake grill. Pretty simple, really.
After doing this, see what your CPU temperatures are like. If they're acceptable, you can reduce noise significantly by removing the CPU fan entirely and fashioning a simple duct from the rear exhaust to the CPU heatsink. This will likely have little effect one way or the other on CPU temperatures, but will reduce noise by eliminating the CPU fan.
Isaac, I didn't notice that wire grill. Those grills offer no resistance, you can fan yourself with one of them and it propels no air.
I agree that that case is a perfect candidate for positive pressure. That back hole will be so unrestrictive it won't matter that the side vents are open. I would leave them open in fact.
I agree that that case is a perfect candidate for positive pressure. That back hole will be so unrestrictive it won't matter that the side vents are open. I would leave them open in fact.
Re: On a budget, need advice
GlacialTech SilentBreeze III (PDF datasheet) has done a good job with cooling my 2800+ Barton, should be fine for you also. Cooler mounts to plastic lugs around the socket, it doesn't need mounting holes. It costs ~ 20 e in Finland, should be too expensive. Cooler is very silent with default voltage.quizzicus wrote:3. Get a new heatsink. I'm not crazy about this one, because it won't do anything for my power supply. Also, my options are fairly limited, because I have a socket A motherboard with no holes around the processor. The only way to mount a HS is on the 6 plastic lugs on the socket.
Thank you both, Isaac and Vertigo, for the time you've spent on this problem. Now let me see if I have this right: I remove the 80mm Panaflo from the rear of the case, and put it on the other front mount (cutting it out, of course). I'm not sure whether to seal the side vent, as Isaac suggested sealing it and Vertigo suggested leaving it open. I suspect though, that sealing it would direct more air out of the hole. Also, would I want to seal the front vent (below the floppy drive)?
It may be important to consider that the ATI Silencer on my graphics card serves as an exhaust fan. Is this going to throw a wrench in my positive-pressure plans?
It may be important to consider that the ATI Silencer on my graphics card serves as an exhaust fan. Is this going to throw a wrench in my positive-pressure plans?
The ATI silencer won't matter, as long as you positive pressure. In other words, the two intake fans must move sufficiently more air than the ATI silencer does. You should be able to feel how much air is exiting the exhaust hole. It should be at least as much air as the ATI silencer outputs.
About the side vents, you can seal them if you like. I can't think that air near the side panel would get hot. What I would do is run the computer for 1 hour or so, then shut down, open the case and feel if any components are hot. Feel the hard drives, feel the memory chips, the voltage regulators, the sound card, etc, just to see if any hot pockets of air formed.
About the side vents, you can seal them if you like. I can't think that air near the side panel would get hot. What I would do is run the computer for 1 hour or so, then shut down, open the case and feel if any components are hot. Feel the hard drives, feel the memory chips, the voltage regulators, the sound card, etc, just to see if any hot pockets of air formed.
The side vents should DEFINITELY be sealed, because any air leaving out the side vents is air which is NOT helping to cool the CPU. CPU temperatures are the main issue in your case, of course.
By moving that 80mm case fan from the rear exhaust to the other front intake, you'll change your neutral pressure case into a positive pressure case. With neutral pressure, any extra vents here or there don't really affect airflow much. With a positive pressure case, you don't want any extra vents.
P.S. : It's a pity that your PSU isn't a bottom intake PSU. If it were, then your computer would be a prime candidate for my favored "flipped fan" technique. It would have solved all of your problems in such an elegant way.
By moving that 80mm case fan from the rear exhaust to the other front intake, you'll change your neutral pressure case into a positive pressure case. With neutral pressure, any extra vents here or there don't really affect airflow much. With a positive pressure case, you don't want any extra vents.
P.S. : It's a pity that your PSU isn't a bottom intake PSU. If it were, then your computer would be a prime candidate for my favored "flipped fan" technique. It would have solved all of your problems in such an elegant way.
There will hardly be 'pressure' at all because the exit hole is completely unrestricted. I imagine that those open vents will account for less than 1% of the exhausting air.CPU temperatures are the main issue in your case, of course.
So sure, sealing the vents will improve airflow out the main exhaust, but it is my opinion that it is little enough to be inconsequential.
Another point I want to make is that it is not a bad idea to have vents in other strategic places, if hot pockets form there. It shouldn't happen in this situation, because the ATI silencer also exhausts, which is convenient. Obviously I don't imagine there would be hot air near those side vents. There is no benefit to having those side vents open, but as any pressure in the case will be negligible I just meant that it was inconsequential. If other strategic vents were required, one would need to have a slightly restrictive fan grille on the main exhaust, to bring other vents into play.
Well making the power supply an intake is only a good idea when the exhausts are at the front of the case, and that is not advisable because the hot cpu air will heat up the hard drives. It is not a good idea to have an exhaust directly below the psu intake because the hot exhaust air enters the psu intake and heats everything up. If the situation is unstable, it can result in tremendously hot temperatures. I have seen this happen, I could feel the heat radiating from the case itself.If it were, then your computer would be a prime candidate for my favored "flipped fan" technique.
Your opinion and mine differ. An 80mm circle does indeed have more area, but I wouldn't underestimate the combined area of so many slits.vertigo wrote:There will hardly be 'pressure' at all because the exit hole is completely unrestricted. I imagine that those open vents will account for less than 1% of the exhausting air.CPU temperatures are the main issue in your case, of course.
Anyway, the original poster can try it both ways. It doesn't take much effort to tape off the remaining side of side slits.
Oh dear--I didn't take that into consideration. Hmm...all of the air which the ATI silencer exhausts is airflow which is NOT going to the CPU. The original poster's main issue was insufficient CPU cooling, so I view this as a serious problem.vertigo wrote:Another point I want to make is that it is not a bad idea to have vents in other strategic places, if hot pockets form there. It shouldn't happen in this situation, because the ATI silencer also exhausts, which is convenient.
Personally, I'd literally unplug the ATI silencer fan. The positive pressure generated by the two intake fans should be enough to push a decent amount of air through the ATI silencer, leaving maybe 3/4 of the airflow to exhaust by the rear case exhaust (near the CPU).
If the air pressure in the case is negligible, then the airflow out of the (fanless) case exhaust will also be negligible. This wouldn't help the original poster's problem at all.vertigo wrote:There is no benefit to having those side vents open, but as any pressure in the case will be negligible I just meant that it was inconsequential.
I've had plenty of success with using the power supply as intake, and exhausting out of the bottom PCI slots and side slits. As long as there's no rear case exhaust right next to the PSU, air recirculation is minimal.vertigo wrote:Well making the power supply an intake is only a good idea when the exhausts are at the front of the case, and that is not advisable because the hot cpu air will heat up the hard drives.If it were, then your computer would be a prime candidate for my favored "flipped fan" technique.
As for hard drive cooling--I do tend to favor 2.5" drives which hardly require any cooling, but I've also used flipped fan techniques with 3.5" drive computers. In the original poster's computer, the appropriate technique would be to have TWO intakes. One is the PSU, while the other is the front intake already being used for hard drive cooling. By opening up the PCI slots and side vents, there would be plenty of exhaust area.
Now, I am not sure that a single undervolted 80mm PSU fan would provide sufficient airflow to cool that hot Barton. In that case, the rear vent should remain open, but the rear case fan should also be flipped so it's another intake. The combined airflow of both the flipped PSU fan and the flipped rear case fan should be enough to keep that Barton nice and cool.
Of course, the point is moot unless the original poster gets a new PSU (with bottom intake).
I imagine restriction per unit area is not linear. I also don't think the vents would make up even half of the area of the exhaust. Also, the ATI Silencer will be exhausting some air from the case. So okay, perhaps it isn't one or two percent, but certainly it isn't much. I will agree that it is worth closing those vents, but I maintain the impact would be minimal.An 80mm circle does indeed have more area, but I wouldn't underestimate the combined area of so many slits.
Well, you obviously missed the point. His airflow situation was unstable, and the ambient air temperature in the case was getting incredibly hot. That's why the cpu was overheating. The hot cpu was a symptom of the 'main issue'.The original poster's main issue was insufficient CPU cooling, so I view this as a serious problem.
Well I agree that video cards typically don't require great airflow, which is why companies are prepared to supply them with passive heatsinks. Disabling the fan could be viable for this reason. I don't know if it is necessary though, but it would be better for the sake of noise. More air would always exit the main exhaust.Personally, I'd literally unplug the ATI silencer fan. The positive pressure generated by the two intake fans should be enough to push a decent amount of air through the ATI silencer
Okay then, I will rephrase that. I imagine the air pressure in the case will be insufficient to result in the main exhaust being restrictive enough to cause a significant amount of air to exit through the side vents. I say this because I don't consider the cpu temps to the such a 'main issue'. Let me again say, whether or not it would matter greatly or not greatly, sealing the vents is the thing to do, just in case. I take note that you think it would be detrimental.If the air pressure in the case is negligible, then the airflow out of the (fanless) case exhaust will also be negligible.
Okay, this is all I will say about this point. I question how detrimental it would be, and that is the end of that.
Leaving the vent below the power supply open and unfanned is taking a risk, and having three intake fans is not advisable. It is for this reason that I consider that approach not to be desirable (in general).In that case, the rear vent should remain open, but the rear case fan should also be flipped so it's another intake.
For me the only workable solution would be to have the front intake and the power supply fan and then the pci slot/side panel exhausts. Unfortunately, the video card would suffer high temps, so I don't know how successful this would be.
Last edited by vertigo on Mon Aug 15, 2005 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Well, I taped off the vents, and moved the Panaflo to the front, and the case temps came to higher than when I started. 
I tried unplugging the fan to the Silencer, and the temperature of the card kept rising as the system temps got even higher! (This might have worked if there was an airtight seal between the silencer and the PCI slot, but they aren't really lined up well enough to do this).
I tried unplugging the fan to the Silencer, and the temperature of the card kept rising as the system temps got even higher! (This might have worked if there was an airtight seal between the silencer and the PCI slot, but they aren't really lined up well enough to do this).I made a booboo. I was not familiar with that ATI Silencer cooler. I envisioned a cooler with a 40mm fan or so. I looked it up now, it has a serious fan and I imagine it moves huge volumes of air. There won't be enough left for the cpu.
So for now, try unplugging that ATI fan, to see how it goes then.
So for now, try unplugging that ATI fan, to see how it goes then.
Once I noticed that barely any air was leaving, I sealed the front of the duct to the case. the only place it isn't airtight are the top and right side, but since the duct is pressed flat against the PSU, I don't imagine much air is creeping in there.
One of my intakes is a Papst, so it doesn't move a whole lot of air. Also, I imagine the air coming in would be pretty well depressurized by that hole. But I'd still expect to feel something.
One of my intakes is a Papst, so it doesn't move a whole lot of air. Also, I imagine the air coming in would be pretty well depressurized by that hole. But I'd still expect to feel something.
One possibility is that the ATI cooler is removing most of the air. It could be, I suppose, it has a really big fan, and you are probably running the front ones undervolted. Run those front fans at 12v for now, it will be easier to feel the air, feel for improvements, etc.
Also, if there is negative pressure in the psu duct the air could be going there. The intake for the psu duct must be VERY unrestrictive. The duct must also be as airtight as possible.
Isaac seems to be more experienced in positive pressure applications, making the power supply an intake probably gets past all this hassle of air going there. I don't like positive pressure, it has too many negatives...
Also, if there is negative pressure in the psu duct the air could be going there. The intake for the psu duct must be VERY unrestrictive. The duct must also be as airtight as possible.
Isaac seems to be more experienced in positive pressure applications, making the power supply an intake probably gets past all this hassle of air going there. I don't like positive pressure, it has too many negatives...