Help me build a new PC

Graphico Tabletti · Post by **Graphico Tabletti** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 4:30 am

Hi,

I've just discovered your brilliant forum and am looking for some help in building a new PC. My current PC is cobbled together from the following components:

Case: Silver with a slidey front
PSU: Cheap 400w one (i think)
Motherboard: Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe
CPU: AMD Athlon XP 2500+
RAM: 2x512mb Corsair DDR (one stick PC3200, one PC2700)
GFX Card: ATi Radeon 9600
HDDs: 1x 80gb & 3x 120gb (IDE)
Optical Drive: Pioneer DVR-105
Floppy Disk: Yes
Monitor:: LG L1710S 17" TFT (VGA only)
Network:: Basic LAN card
Other: PCI IDE Controller Card
Speakers: Creative P580? 5.1 Surround Sound (Cheapo)
Operating System: Windows XP Home (Genuine copy of it)

The above PC is a complete mess inside and has started making a hell of a noise, so i'm looking to build a new (better) PC. I'm thinking of maybe an Antec P180 as the case (funds permitting) but the rest of the components are up for discussion.

I'd appreciate it if you could provide me with a list of suitable components with prices / locations. I don't have much of a budget as of yet, but just assume as cheap as possible and don't go overboard with unnecessary(sp?) stuff. The PC is used for games, video playback, graphics/video editing etc.

Thanks alot,

GT

PS: I'd like the PC to be able to handle upto 6 HDDs and i'd like to add at least one large capacity drive to the ones i have already. Also, if i have a GFX card with both vga and dvi out could i use 2 monitors or would i need 2 GFX cards for that?

vertigo · Post by **vertigo** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 12:15 pm

If you want cheap as possible, why don't you quiet your current machine? It doesn't look too old. Buy a new case if you like, with 120mm fan mounts, and a new PSU (if one doesn't come with the case). The system sounds fine, though, there's no need to upgrade.

Anyhow, with a new case and PSU you can always replace the innards later.

Shadowknight · Post by **Shadowknight** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:08 pm

Yeah, you should replace the noisy components first, then worry about the case. If it's a mess inside, work on your wire management to help with airflow.

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:33 pm

Greetings,

Pictures of the case would help!

There are totally cheap (i.e. free) that you can do to help the air flow, and therefore the lower the noise and improve the temps, too.

Graphico Tabletti · Post by **Graphico Tabletti** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:49 pm

I was planning on getting a new PC at some point, but a component near the CPU has started making an unusual noise (sort of grating / rattling) so i thought now was as good a time to upgrade as any. I don't think it would be worth simply upgrading this machine without identifying the source of the unusual noise first. Does anyone have an idea what it could be?

vertigo · Post by **vertigo** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:53 am

Noises like that are usually resonance from the cpu fan or case fans.

Graphico Tabletti · Post by **Graphico Tabletti** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:03 am

vertigo wrote:Noises like that are usually resonance from the cpu fan or case fans.

The noise i'm referring to is louder and alongside the usual fan noise than is produced.

Graphico Tabletti · Post by **Graphico Tabletti** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:29 am

How does this specification look? I still don't have a budget yet, so this is just a preliminary specification:

Case
Antec SLK3000B
£34.02
Overclockers.co.uk

PSU
Seasonic S12 430W Silent
£58.69
Overclockers.co.uk

Motherboard
Abit AN8-V nForce 4 (Socket 939)
£67.27
Scan.co.uk

CPU
AMD Athlon64 3000 "Venice" Retail
£102.58
Scan.co.uk

Memory
Geil Value 1gb (2x512) PC3200
£70.44
Overclockers.co.uk

GFX Card
Sapphire 256mb X800GT PCI-E VGA/DVI/TV-Out
£111.53
Scan.co.uk

HDD
250gb Maxtor Diamondmax Plus10 Sata (7200,16mb)
£74.84
Scan.co.uk

DVD Writer
Pioneer DVR-110D Black
£35.24
Scan.co.uk

Current Total Price: £554.61

Is there anything wrong with those component choices? Have i missed out something obvious? Is there anything else i will need with this? Can i get the components cheaper elsewhere?

Thanks alot,

GT

Bob_the_lost · Post by **Bob_the_lost** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:15 am

Just that i'd be wary of the pioneer, might be better off with a NEC 3540 scan do them for £30. It's a good drive with OEM firmware, an excellent one with unoffical firmware.

The thing is that the Pioneer 109 was pretty disapointing, i was going to buy one unitll i looked at the reviews of it on www.cdfreaks.com aparently the BenQ 1640 is quieter (and it would have been my first choice) but it's a bitch to find it.

Seagate offers a 5 year warranty, while everyone else only does 3. Worth considering surely.

Graphico Tabletti · Post by **Graphico Tabletti** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:26 am

Bob_the_lost wrote:Just that i'd be wary of the pioneer, might be better off with a NEC 3540 scan do them for £30. It's a good drive with OEM firmware, an excellent one with unoffical firmware.

The thing is that the Pioneer 109 was pretty disapointing, i was going to buy one unitll i looked at the reviews of it on www.cdfreaks.com aparently the BenQ 1640 is quieter (and it would have been my first choice) but it's a bitch to find it.

Seagate offers a 5 year warranty, while everyone else only does 3. Worth considering surely.

I was going to choose the NEC but went with the Pioneer simply because my current drive is Pioneer, i'll definitely get the NEC instead if it's quieter etc. Also, i wasn't aware of the warranty difference, i'll take a look at a comparable Seagate drive.

Besides those 2 points are there any other possile compatiblity issues i should be aware of?

sthayashi · Post by **sthayashi** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:38 pm

These will be your noise makers/loudest components. I'm not sure which order they'll be in, but if you find your system to be loud, one of these will be the culprit.

Graphico Tabletti wrote:Motherboard
Abit AN8-V nForce 4 (Socket 939)
£67.27
Scan.co.uk

CPU
AMD Athlon64 3000 "Venice" Retail
£102.58
Scan.co.uk
[...]
GFX Card
Sapphire 256mb X800GT PCI-E VGA/DVI/TV-Out
£111.53
Scan.co.uk

ozdoc · Post by **ozdoc** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:45 pm

I was going to choose the NEC but went with the Pioneer simply because my current drive is Pioneer, i'll definitely get the NEC instead if it's quieter etc. Also, i wasn't aware of the warranty difference, i'll take a look at a comparable Seagate drive.

I've recently put a Pioneer 110D in a SLK3000B, and can't fault it. It is very quiet behind the case door. Perhaps the only regret is not waiting for the upcoming 110 model, which apparently handles DVD RAM.

Graphico Tabletti · Post by **Graphico Tabletti** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:04 pm

sthayashi wrote:These will be your noise makers/loudest components. I'm not sure which order they'll be in, but if you find your system to be loud, one of these will be the culprit.

Graphico Tabletti wrote:Motherboard
Abit AN8-V nForce 4 (Socket 939)
£67.27
Scan.co.uk

CPU
AMD Athlon64 3000 "Venice" Retail
£102.58
Scan.co.uk
[...]
GFX Card
Sapphire 256mb X800GT PCI-E VGA/DVI/TV-Out
£111.53
Scan.co.uk

Is there any alternative to these components that may be quieter? Current specification is:

Specification is now as follows:

Case
Antec SLK3000B
£34.02
Overclockers.co.uk

PSU
Seasonic S12 430W Silent
£58.69
Overclockers.co.uk

Motherboard
Abit AN8-V nForce 4 (Socket 939)
£67.27
Scan.co.uk

CPU
AMD Athlon64 3000 "Venice" Retail
£102.58
Scan.co.uk

Memory
Geil Value 1gb (2x512) PC3200
£70.44
Overclockers.co.uk

GFX Card
Sapphire 256mb X800GT PCI-E VGA/DVI/TV-Out
£111.53
Scan.co.uk

HDD
250gb Sata II Samsung Spinpoint (Recommended Elsewhere)
£79.00
Komplett.co.uk

DVD Writer
NEC ND-3540A Black
£29.22
Scan.co.uk

Current Total Price: £552.75

vertigo · Post by **vertigo** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:12 pm

That Venice CPU is fine, it can be easily cooled.

Graphico Tabletti · Post by **Graphico Tabletti** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:30 pm

vertigo wrote:That Venice CPU is fine, it can be easily cooled.

Do i need to buy some sort of extra cooler / fan? I'm not very well informed on the subject.

vertigo · Post by **vertigo** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:50 pm

The stock coolers are noisy, but there are surely hundreds of threads about cpu coolers. Search the forums, see what products are available, etc.

I like the XP/90, but you must decide for yourself.

Graphico Tabletti · Post by **Graphico Tabletti** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:29 pm

Is it worth buying Windows XP 64-bit edition when i already have the standard edition of XP?

vertigo · Post by **vertigo** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:38 pm

Undoubtedly it is not worth buying it. What difference would it make for you? Do you run a terabyte sized database or so? Do you want 4GB+ of RAM? I don't see how it would be anywhere near worth buying.

Graphico Tabletti · Post by **Graphico Tabletti** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:47 pm

vertigo wrote:Undoubtedly it is not worth buying it. What difference would it make for you? Do you run a terabyte sized database or so? Do you want 4GB+ of RAM? I don't see how it would be anywhere near worth buying.

I've no idea about the benefits of 64-bit Xp, someone mentioned it to me so i thought i'd ask about it here.

ozdoc · Post by **ozdoc** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:11 pm

I was under the understanding that Microsoft was offering a free upgrade to 64 bit XP for current XP owners, so I definately wouldn't spend any money on it. I agree with Vertigo, unless there is specific compelling reasons, I wouldn't go to 64 bit XP at the moment. Driver support is still patchy.

sthayashi · Post by **sthayashi** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 6:52 pm

Retail processors come with stock heatsinks, which in turn are typically eschewed on this forum for being too noisy. I really don't know for sure, because I've always bought OEM processors and aftermarket heatsinks.

The Abit motherboard comes with active northbridge cooling. Now I've actually heard some very quiet active NB cooling in the past, but I've also read (and experienced) complaints otherwise. A Zalman Northbridge cooler should take care of that easily.

Video card replacement? I'm not so good with that, but most video cards typically have a loud active cooling fan on top of them. Gigabyte makes a number of passively cooled video cards that are on par with that card. This one may be a close equivalent, though take my advice with a grain of salt as I'm not up-to-date on the latest and greatest video hardware.

Shadowknight · Post by **Shadowknight** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:15 pm

sthayashi wrote:Retail processors come with stock heatsinks, which in turn are typically eschewed on this forum for being too noisy. I really don't know for sure, because I've always bought OEM processors and aftermarket heatsinks.
Video card replacement? I'm not so good with that, but most video cards typically have a loud active cooling fan on top of them. Gigabyte makes a number of passively cooled video cards that are on par with that card.

SPCR needs a motto, such as the following;
"Every time you use stock cooling, God kills a kitten. Please, think of the kittens."

Graphico Tabletti · Post by **Graphico Tabletti** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 12:52 am

Thanks for the input so far, could someone possibly recommend a replacement CPU heatsink + fan from http://www.scan.co.uk please?

Thanks alot.

sthayashi · Post by **sthayashi** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:46 pm

Graphico Tabletti wrote:Thanks for the input so far, could someone possibly recommend a replacement CPU heatsink + fan from http://www.scan.co.uk please?

Thanks alot.

Though it hasn't been reviewed yet, I have a feeling the Zalman CNPS9500 will be very quiet and very effective. For your line of processor, the Kamaboko may work alright as well, but you'll need to look into reducing fan speed.

They seem to have a very weird selection of CPU heatsinks (For example they carry Zalman's latest heatsink, but not their extremely popular 7000 series). What are you so adamant at purchasing from scan.co.uk, if you don't mind me asking?

vertigo · Post by **vertigo** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:01 pm

I tend to like conventional heatsinks. The one I would try is the Akasa AK-862, it's cheap, comes with a pot which is handy, and you can always change the fan if it is noisy.

Actually, I take that back. It's not a standard fan, it's 90x90x45, it won't be quiet.

vertigo · Post by **vertigo** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:11 pm

Find another shop, there aren't any nice ones there. Those Akasas have strange 45mm fans, not at all what you want, they won't be quiet. That Coolermaster CK8-8JD2B-0L has a normal fan at least, 80x80x25, but the heatsink doesn't seem up to much. It has no heatpipes, etc. You could use it, but you can do better.

I don't like those two heatsinks much because they don't have clips to mount the fan, it will be a hassle to change the fan.

vertigo · Post by **vertigo** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:52 pm

Just in case you misunderstood, the gist of what I was saying is those heatsinks are no good, don't buy them. Both fans are bad, and you can't easily change them.

When I was still in South Africa fancy coolers and things were VERY scarce, so you had to make do with whatever you could get. Evercool fans were the only fans available, for instance. Sometimes I still think in that mode, especially when faced with 'choose one in this list'. My standards of what is workable are definitely lower than other people's. There is no reason to ever change/flip fans on those icky heatsinks when you can just buy somewhere else.

I call them icky because they don't use clips, and it is difficult to swap the fan. I like conventional heatsinks with easily flipped/changed fans (like the XP/90). There is no reason to compromise.

Shadowknight · Post by **Shadowknight** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:56 pm

Well, just keep in mind that now you're in an environment where you don't have to worry about being attacked and eaten by a wild Fire Truck. Remember; South Africa has one of the highest mortality rates of people eaten by Fire Trucks.

(In case you don't get it, it's a reference to Family Guy).

Graphico Tabletti · Post by **Graphico Tabletti** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:04 am

I wanted something from Scan simply for convenience because i live 10 minutes away from their warehouse. If they have nothing suitable, then any other reputable UK company would be fine (except ebuyer or dabs). I'd like a HSF that is easier to install, i don't want to have to screw it in place etc

vertigo · Post by **vertigo** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:39 am

I made a mistake. I'm surprised no-one corrected me. That Akasa AK-862 has got a standard 92x92x25 fan. I looked at the measurement for the heatsink by mistake. The heatsink is 45mm high, not the fan.

Also, looking at the picture, it seems to have the normal flanges, like any other fan. It doesn't have closed flanges with the screw head recessed, like some others. That was what I was worried about, but it appears you could easily flip that fan or change it, it would be no problem at all.

That is a standard Akasa 92mm fan, which is probably pretty quiet, I don't think you'd need to change it. So I would buy that one. Sorry for the mistake.

So, it is a 92mm heatsink with a conventionally oriented fan, with a standard fan that can easily be flipped or changed. It is dirt cheap, and even comes with a pot to adjust the speed. You won't have to pay shipping because you can surely collect it. It's aluminium so it will be light and won't stress the motherboard at all like most 'high performance' (high risk) coolers. I would buy it.

In comparison, the XP/90 will set you back £27 + shipping, then you still need a fan. It's a no brainer.