Some friends are in need of a PC, so I'm going to bring an old 1.3Ghz Athlon T-bird system back to life.
What it's got:
- generic antec tower case with 80mm fan slots and it's 300W supply (PP 303XP) with 80mm fan
- Tyan KT133A mobo. passive NB, thermaltake cpu cooler, I think..
- 256MB PC133 SDRAM
- CD ROM
- Santa Cruz sound card
- 80GB Maxtor D740X-6L
What is needs:
- cheap video card (leaning toward a Gigabyte FX5200 at $40
- more RAM....256MB or 512MB?
- CD/RW BenQ5232W perhaps for $29 or DVD RW(optional add...BenQ 1640seems reasonable at $45)
- self powered speakers
- quieter chassis fan.
- floppy drive
The priorities are:
1) CHEAP
2) quiet(er)
Usage: Win2k, internet, Office suite, iTunes, perhaps watching DVDs...no gaming. This system will be sitting in a subtropical environment (Mexican beach area), so while the system itself probably won't have huge temp rise, the ambient will be in the 25 to 35C range.
So, here's the questions:
1) How much memory does a Win2k system need for these activities? I'm just familiar with 98SE and XP home.
2) chassis fan(s) and self powered speaker suggestions?
3) any other comments?
Minimalist 1.3GHz T-bird system...cheap - not quiet
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
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scruzbeachbum
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 11:15 am
- Location: California
SPCR is about quiet computing, and I assume you asked about this here because you want this PC to be quiet.
That CPU has a high heat output, >60W I think. Especially since you have such high ambient temperatures, cooling it is going to be something you need to focus on.
What I think you'll need for quiet cooling is:
- New case with 120mm exhaust (SLK3000B comes to mind)
- 120mm fan (probably supplied with the case)
- High efficiency CPU cooler (that takes at least an 80mm fan)
- Suspend/isolate the drive (read about this in the forums)
What you might need:
- New PSU (if the old one is too noisy)
- New quiet hard drive (if the old one is too noisy)
I think 256MB will be enough, anyway SDRAM can be expensive.
That CPU has a high heat output, >60W I think. Especially since you have such high ambient temperatures, cooling it is going to be something you need to focus on.
What I think you'll need for quiet cooling is:
- New case with 120mm exhaust (SLK3000B comes to mind)
- 120mm fan (probably supplied with the case)
- High efficiency CPU cooler (that takes at least an 80mm fan)
- Suspend/isolate the drive (read about this in the forums)
What you might need:
- New PSU (if the old one is too noisy)
- New quiet hard drive (if the old one is too noisy)
I think 256MB will be enough, anyway SDRAM can be expensive.
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scruzbeachbum
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 11:15 am
- Location: California
Actually I respect the groups' knowledge base to ask for for help even when the priority is $'s over dBA's. 
It's unlikely that I will spend more than $125 or so on this system.
A 1.4GHz T-Bird in the same mobo with similar cooling is showing at idle:
mobo 21C
CPU 23C
GPU 42C (old Geforce 3 Ti 200)
After 5 min of gaming:
mobo 22C
CPU 47C
GPU 47C
and then after 5 min of idle after gaming:
mobo 22C
CPU 26C
GPU 43C
using Everest home edition 2.20.
It's unlikely that I will spend more than $125 or so on this system.
A 1.4GHz T-Bird in the same mobo with similar cooling is showing at idle:
mobo 21C
CPU 23C
GPU 42C (old Geforce 3 Ti 200)
After 5 min of gaming:
mobo 22C
CPU 47C
GPU 47C
and then after 5 min of idle after gaming:
mobo 22C
CPU 26C
GPU 43C
using Everest home edition 2.20.
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MikeC
- Site Admin
- Posts: 12285
- Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
- Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
- Contact:
For that kind of budget on that old a system, my approach would be to do as little as possible.
Those generic Antec cases are decent for airflow, and they are decently built, so just check airflow paths and make sure to minimize obstructions by removing unnecessary plastic fan holders, grills, etc.
SDRAM is not cheap anymore because DDRAM is the volume product now. Add more ram only if you can get it cheap & know that it will work with the other stick. I've had issues with non-matched RAM -- very tough to diagnose, too. For general work, 256mb should be fine w/ w2k. I think a generic 512mb stick will cost $50. But if it was me, I'd leave it.
$40 for a vidcard seems like too much on such a budget. You can get away with well under $30 for a generic MX400 card which will do th job fine -- it works well on some of the lab computers.
That HDD, the PSU and the CPU cooler fan are probably the main sources of noise.
HDDs are cheap, it is probably worth replacing, as reliability could be an issue, and a new one would be MUCH quieter. Especially if you decouple mount it.
SPCR Pricegrabber link to Samsung 120G HDD $63 lowest price.
For the CPU cooler, an Arctic Cooling TC HSF for socket A is a great simple choice. Or one of the many HS on SPCR lab clearance sale list. I am sure I have a socket A Arctic Cooling CPU I can let go for $15 shipped (in the US or Canada)
Chassis fan -- the Panaflo 80L is still a great choice, still cheap.
PSU -- You only need 300W, and the SPCR lab clearance has lots of models quieter than that Antec. Also, SeasonicUSA sells refurbished PSUs w/3-yr warranty at very good prices. $25 for a 300W Super Silencer is killer. You might consider a simple PSU fresh air duct, sacrificing the top CD drive bay given the high ambient temps. (See the stick in the PSU forum.)
Those generic Antec cases are decent for airflow, and they are decently built, so just check airflow paths and make sure to minimize obstructions by removing unnecessary plastic fan holders, grills, etc.
SDRAM is not cheap anymore because DDRAM is the volume product now. Add more ram only if you can get it cheap & know that it will work with the other stick. I've had issues with non-matched RAM -- very tough to diagnose, too. For general work, 256mb should be fine w/ w2k. I think a generic 512mb stick will cost $50. But if it was me, I'd leave it.
$40 for a vidcard seems like too much on such a budget. You can get away with well under $30 for a generic MX400 card which will do th job fine -- it works well on some of the lab computers.
That HDD, the PSU and the CPU cooler fan are probably the main sources of noise.
HDDs are cheap, it is probably worth replacing, as reliability could be an issue, and a new one would be MUCH quieter. Especially if you decouple mount it.
SPCR Pricegrabber link to Samsung 120G HDD $63 lowest price.
For the CPU cooler, an Arctic Cooling TC HSF for socket A is a great simple choice. Or one of the many HS on SPCR lab clearance sale list. I am sure I have a socket A Arctic Cooling CPU I can let go for $15 shipped (in the US or Canada)
Chassis fan -- the Panaflo 80L is still a great choice, still cheap.
PSU -- You only need 300W, and the SPCR lab clearance has lots of models quieter than that Antec. Also, SeasonicUSA sells refurbished PSUs w/3-yr warranty at very good prices. $25 for a 300W Super Silencer is killer. You might consider a simple PSU fresh air duct, sacrificing the top CD drive bay given the high ambient temps. (See the stick in the PSU forum.)
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scruzbeachbum
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 11:15 am
- Location: California
Thanks for the feedback, Mike. The other two folks - take a chill pill. Get a sense of community. go kick a dog. yeesh.
Back to the topic at hand...
This old system has already gone a round for cpu cooling/silencing, so my silencing focus will be elsewhere in the system. I expect the PSU and the chassis fan will be the biggies. As for sys temp, as the ambient may get rather high, I might mess around with seeing if I can undervoltage and underclock this CPU a tad. That way, I can hopefully keep it to one chassis fan and have no worries.
Yep - SDRAM looks pricey. I may just try it out with 256MB and see how it performs.
Probably the first step is to decide on a passive vid card and boot the system to check out the remaining areas for noise/performance before sinking more $'s into it. A quick look via pricegrabber...The MX400's go for around $30. So, for $10 more I'd get DVI output option as well as added performance if ever needed.
Oh - for the HDD, if Fry's runs another special on seagate 160GB P-ATA drives for $25 after rebate - I'm all over it.
** Update: found a benq 1640 and an albatron mx 4000 (passive) for total of $29 shipped. Insanely low price - perhaps too good to be true, but worth a shot for the price... **
Back to the topic at hand...
This old system has already gone a round for cpu cooling/silencing, so my silencing focus will be elsewhere in the system. I expect the PSU and the chassis fan will be the biggies. As for sys temp, as the ambient may get rather high, I might mess around with seeing if I can undervoltage and underclock this CPU a tad. That way, I can hopefully keep it to one chassis fan and have no worries.
Yep - SDRAM looks pricey. I may just try it out with 256MB and see how it performs.
Probably the first step is to decide on a passive vid card and boot the system to check out the remaining areas for noise/performance before sinking more $'s into it. A quick look via pricegrabber...The MX400's go for around $30. So, for $10 more I'd get DVI output option as well as added performance if ever needed.
Oh - for the HDD, if Fry's runs another special on seagate 160GB P-ATA drives for $25 after rebate - I'm all over it.
** Update: found a benq 1640 and an albatron mx 4000 (passive) for total of $29 shipped. Insanely low price - perhaps too good to be true, but worth a shot for the price... **
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scruzbeachbum
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 11:15 am
- Location: California
A bit of an update....
Found a 256MB stick of PC133 at the local computer recycler (go Grey Bears!) for $15. It was a crapshoot as the memory wasn't guaranteed in any way and the dude working there manhandled the RAM as he pawed through the bin (no ESD protection). In any case, it's burning in now. Fine, so far.
The $29 price for the benq and albatron card was too good to be true. Vendor killed the order after finding wrong prices in database. So, I bought an Asus mx4000 card thru new egg for $30.
Hard drive: 200GB Seagate P-ATA for $50 after rebate at Outpost.com. Woo.
..................................................
Now, looking at the CPU cooler. The tyan mobo has very limited space. The cpu clip sides are limited to 60mm due to caps and the mobo power connector. The length can be 80mm.
Going 1 inch up from the socket, the dimensions can be 75mm (clip side) x >100mm. Skyline is at least 125mm. There are mounting holes on the non-clip sides.
With the noisy little nexus cooler/fan that is there now (don't know the model #, but it's a 50mm fan spinning at 3700rpm), I am seeing 33C over room temp during burn in and it idles at 7C over room temp.
Any thoughts on what could fit in there, be quieter, lower the heat rise over ambient? The artic cooler solutions probably won't fit as they all seem to be in the 76mm x 84mm size area.
If I can't find a better cooler, what about one of these fan adapters?
Anyone ever try using one of them?
Found a 256MB stick of PC133 at the local computer recycler (go Grey Bears!) for $15. It was a crapshoot as the memory wasn't guaranteed in any way and the dude working there manhandled the RAM as he pawed through the bin (no ESD protection). In any case, it's burning in now. Fine, so far.
The $29 price for the benq and albatron card was too good to be true. Vendor killed the order after finding wrong prices in database. So, I bought an Asus mx4000 card thru new egg for $30.
Hard drive: 200GB Seagate P-ATA for $50 after rebate at Outpost.com. Woo.
..................................................
Now, looking at the CPU cooler. The tyan mobo has very limited space. The cpu clip sides are limited to 60mm due to caps and the mobo power connector. The length can be 80mm.
Going 1 inch up from the socket, the dimensions can be 75mm (clip side) x >100mm. Skyline is at least 125mm. There are mounting holes on the non-clip sides.
With the noisy little nexus cooler/fan that is there now (don't know the model #, but it's a 50mm fan spinning at 3700rpm), I am seeing 33C over room temp during burn in and it idles at 7C over room temp.
Any thoughts on what could fit in there, be quieter, lower the heat rise over ambient? The artic cooler solutions probably won't fit as they all seem to be in the 76mm x 84mm size area.
If I can't find a better cooler, what about one of these fan adapters?
Anyone ever try using one of them?
Sorry this advice may come too late, and also maybe a little above your budget, but another option would have been replacing the CPU/MB with a s754 Sempron with onboard video.
Semprons run very cool (espcially compared with Socket A/Tbirds) and the stock cooler on a fan controlled mb makes for an out-of-the-box low noise solution. There is a wide selection of budget s754 all-in-one boards with video, sound, lan, and plenty of USBs. With the lower power draw, you might also be able to undervolt PSU/case fans (no extra cost).
(MikeC when are Semprons/Turions going to get added to the CPU list?)
At around $150 for a Sempron 2500+ ($59), all-in-one mb ($49), and 512MB DDR RAM ($39) it will cost more than the second hand PC133 RAM, video card, and decent CPU cooler, but you get a more powerful system, new components that should be more reliable/last longer, and a lower power/cooler (ie easier to quiet) system.
Semprons run very cool (espcially compared with Socket A/Tbirds) and the stock cooler on a fan controlled mb makes for an out-of-the-box low noise solution. There is a wide selection of budget s754 all-in-one boards with video, sound, lan, and plenty of USBs. With the lower power draw, you might also be able to undervolt PSU/case fans (no extra cost).
(MikeC when are Semprons/Turions going to get added to the CPU list?)
At around $150 for a Sempron 2500+ ($59), all-in-one mb ($49), and 512MB DDR RAM ($39) it will cost more than the second hand PC133 RAM, video card, and decent CPU cooler, but you get a more powerful system, new components that should be more reliable/last longer, and a lower power/cooler (ie easier to quiet) system.
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scruzbeachbum
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 11:15 am
- Location: California
Hi, thanks for the input - but, really opting to minimize cost.
Actually, there are two PC's being messed with. Both are using the Tyan mobo and have a 1.3 or 1.4GHz T-Bird. Both have an old Nexus CPU heatsink and 60mm fan....limited by the mobo's layout. Current thought is to yank off the fan and use the Zalman FB123 92mm fan/bracket to cool the CPU.
The 1.3GHz system is headed to Mexico and possibly a 30C ambient environment. The primary goal for that system is stability at minimal cost. Performance not a primary goal as it'll mostly be used for web surfing, email, iTunes, and MS Office. Currently has a Papst 60mm fan in front of the HDD as the only case fan. Didn't like the ambient temp rise, so adding a Panaflo to the back. The noisiest component is the old Asus GeForce 3 card. The future owner is coming over tonight and she'll decide whether it's good enough or she wants a better solution. Note - when the Pabst was in the back of the case, there was an awesomely bad harmonic beat freq between it and the vid card fan.
The 1.4GHz system is my backup PC and goal is quiet at minimal cost. I use it for some gaming. It also has one Pabst case fan. Video is an Asus MX4000 passively cooled card. CPU fan noise overwhelms everything else.
I've been going slow on the mods...waiting for the new HDD to mess with the 1.3GHz system any more. New Panaflo's arrived yesterday. Gotta look into the Zalman Fan Bracket as well.
Actually, there are two PC's being messed with. Both are using the Tyan mobo and have a 1.3 or 1.4GHz T-Bird. Both have an old Nexus CPU heatsink and 60mm fan....limited by the mobo's layout. Current thought is to yank off the fan and use the Zalman FB123 92mm fan/bracket to cool the CPU.
The 1.3GHz system is headed to Mexico and possibly a 30C ambient environment. The primary goal for that system is stability at minimal cost. Performance not a primary goal as it'll mostly be used for web surfing, email, iTunes, and MS Office. Currently has a Papst 60mm fan in front of the HDD as the only case fan. Didn't like the ambient temp rise, so adding a Panaflo to the back. The noisiest component is the old Asus GeForce 3 card. The future owner is coming over tonight and she'll decide whether it's good enough or she wants a better solution. Note - when the Pabst was in the back of the case, there was an awesomely bad harmonic beat freq between it and the vid card fan.
The 1.4GHz system is my backup PC and goal is quiet at minimal cost. I use it for some gaming. It also has one Pabst case fan. Video is an Asus MX4000 passively cooled card. CPU fan noise overwhelms everything else.
I've been going slow on the mods...waiting for the new HDD to mess with the 1.3GHz system any more. New Panaflo's arrived yesterday. Gotta look into the Zalman Fan Bracket as well.
I would suggest undervolting and underclocking the Athlon, then running the CPU fan at lower voltage (I'm guessing is one of those 60mm ones like TT Volcano 2 or 3). I've tried it to a similar system setup, and it works quite well.
Also, i wouldn't suggest using the Zalman fan bracket fan. If the heatsink is too small, it won't work as well (tried this before). If you do opt for this, it would be good to duct the airflow towards the heatsink.
One thing i found very useful was CPUidle. It's a great little program for computers that don't require heavy loading of the CPU. It's available as a 30-day trial.
Also, i wouldn't suggest using the Zalman fan bracket fan. If the heatsink is too small, it won't work as well (tried this before). If you do opt for this, it would be good to duct the airflow towards the heatsink.
One thing i found very useful was CPUidle. It's a great little program for computers that don't require heavy loading of the CPU. It's available as a 30-day trial.