Hi all,
Thanks for keeping this great site alive. The amount of excellent information here is astonishing. I'm building a relatively cheap HTPC with as little noise as possible. These are my planned components - I have some questions regarding some of those that I hope you can help me with. The goal is to have "sufficient" power for a HTPC with very little noise. The only fans will be CPU and PSU. No case fans.
Noise related components:
HD: Samsung SpinPoint V120CE HA250JC 250 GB
Comment: Samsung seems like the way to go. Will add some sort of elastic frame. Recommendations?
CPU: Athlon 64 3200+
Comment: Running C'n'Q seems like the best option at this point. Should I choose the 3000+ for less heat? Or will it just work harder and make more heat.
CPU Cooler: Thermalright XP-120
Nexus 120mm Real Silent Case Fan D12SL-12
ZALMAN FAN MATE 2
Comment: My theory here is to have a very good cooler so I can get by with running the Nexus at 5V. The case won't hold the higher heatpipe coolers.
Will the Nexus run reliably at 5V?
The cooling will be sufficient for a HTPC (almost never running at 100%)?
Can I get by with a cheaper cooler even?
DVD: Samsung TS H552B
Comment: Samsung seems to be the leader of silent DVD drives.
Case: Silverstone LASCALA LC10
Comment: WAF approved, reasonable big case. Should I remove the 3 case fans if I don't use them?
PSU: Sea Sonic S12-430
Comments: Very low noise PSU obviously, but can I get by with lower wattage? It's only a HTPC after all.
(Less) Noise related components:
MB: ASUS A8N-VM CSM
Comment: Integrated Video, Fanless chipset. 'tis all good.
Tuner: Hauppauge WinTV PVR-500MCE
Comment: no comment.
Ram: Kingston ValueRAM 2 x 512 MB
Comment: Cheap. Could probably get by with 1 x 512. Is there a heat benefit here?
Wireless: ASUS WL-138G
Comment: nothing to see here really.
Microsoft Remote Control and Receiver for Media Center PC with Windows
That's it. What kind of noiselevels would you expect from this rig? Do I need more cooling?
That's a lot of questions I know but the possibilities seems endless so I need some input badly.
Thanks in advance everybody.
New AMD based HTPC, low noise, medium performance, advice.
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
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tempeteduson
- Posts: 189
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Re: New AMD based HTPC, low noise, medium performance, advic
The 3000+ Venice costs just as much (or more than!) the 3200+ Venice nowadays. I suggest you buy the 3200+ and decrease the multiplier to downclock and make it a 3000+ if you really have to... but I think you'll enjoy that extra 200 MHz for not that much additional heat.Nikolajc wrote:CPU: Athlon 64 3200+
Comment: Running C'n'Q seems like the best option at this point. Should I choose the 3000+ for less heat? Or will it just work harder and make more heat.
AFAIK the Nexus does not start reliably at 5 V, but perhaps some samples can. I think you should give it at least 6 V; it's still very quiet at 7. And I think you can get by with a cheaper, easier-to-install XP-90 with a Nexus 92mm (also very quiet).
I'd say go with 2 x 512 MB; the extra heat generated by the second module is negligible when you consider the performance improvement!
Good choice of mobo, hard drive, and optical. I have the same Samsung DVD drive. It's reasonably quiet but can pick up some wind noise during high speed reads/writes; I haven't owned a better modern drive, though.
You can get a cheaper and less powerful PSU, like the S12-380 or -330. (I would go with the -380 because it gives you some extra power reserve and doesn't come with excess connectors like the -430 does, making for easier cable management. It has the same number of connectors as the -330, so you don't decrease cable clutter by going with the lesser one.) And, yes, do remove fans that go unsused, for they block precious airflow with their static frame and blades.
Overall, it sounds good. Best of luck!
Last edited by tempeteduson on Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
First of all, Welcome to SPCR!
Now, to your components. Good HDD choice. The few SPCRers to have these have generally commented favourably about them.
Re: the CPU, I personally think the core you choose is more important than the clock speed. After all, you can mess around in BIOS and C'n'Q to alter effective clock speed. People generally agree that the Venice cores run the coolest.
CPU cooler fine, CPU fan fine. Yes, the Nexus runs at 5V, sometimes even lower!
PSU: yeah, why not go for the S12-330. Cheaper and perfectly adequate for this setup.
Now, to your components. Good HDD choice. The few SPCRers to have these have generally commented favourably about them.
Re: the CPU, I personally think the core you choose is more important than the clock speed. After all, you can mess around in BIOS and C'n'Q to alter effective clock speed. People generally agree that the Venice cores run the coolest.
CPU cooler fine, CPU fan fine. Yes, the Nexus runs at 5V, sometimes even lower!
Yes. However you may find that you will need to keep at least one of them for emergency/max power draw cooling.Should I remove the 3 case fans if I don't use them?
PSU: yeah, why not go for the S12-330. Cheaper and perfectly adequate for this setup.
2 sticks, 1 stick, makes minimal difference to overall heat output.Comment: Cheap. Could probably get by with 1 x 512. Is there a heat benefit here?
<25dB at 1 meter, definitely.That's it. What kind of noiselevels would you expect from this rig?
Regards the extra memory....
I had some good success recently in tweaking my current system to use less Cpu cycles by using memory more effectively.
Here is one of the tweaks that makes a difference... Needs 256mb memory or more.
Open Regedit and search this entry.
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management.
Select the DisablePagingExecutive value to '1'
It stops windows dropping the operating system files to the paging file. i believe that it will drop files if it runs out of memory.
Windows uses a paging file to store data in its memory. When a bit of code has not been used for a while, it drops it down into it's paging file. This uses both cpu cycles (my current fetish) and hard drive useage, both which generate heat. If you force Windows to stop dropping stuff to the page file, you make the overall system generate less heat. This I have done to good effect in my current system. I have done this successfully in my current project which is running with 512mb.
Next weekend I will be installing a further 512mb and will be interested to see if the extra memory will enable me to further reduce CPU temps... logically speaking I will expect to see a decrease.
So if I am right, the extra memory, AND some reg tweaks to make use of it properly could potentially have an impact on overall system temps as well as giving a performance increase. sorry to be a bit vague on what the benefits may be, but I will post more when i have experimented further.
I would go for the extra memory anyhows, because as has been said before in the thread, extra memory=Extra performance in most cases. 512mb seems a bit low for such a powerfull processor.
There are other tweaks out there for instance enabling largesystemcache that can make a difference to larger memory systems. I dont want to recomend this one as though it seemed to help me, there is differing advice out there as to wether it is worth making. i will play with it more before recommending. If anyone else wants to have a go it would be good to see what effect it has on more than just one system.
I had some good success recently in tweaking my current system to use less Cpu cycles by using memory more effectively.
Here is one of the tweaks that makes a difference... Needs 256mb memory or more.
Open Regedit and search this entry.
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management.
Select the DisablePagingExecutive value to '1'
It stops windows dropping the operating system files to the paging file. i believe that it will drop files if it runs out of memory.
Windows uses a paging file to store data in its memory. When a bit of code has not been used for a while, it drops it down into it's paging file. This uses both cpu cycles (my current fetish) and hard drive useage, both which generate heat. If you force Windows to stop dropping stuff to the page file, you make the overall system generate less heat. This I have done to good effect in my current system. I have done this successfully in my current project which is running with 512mb.
Next weekend I will be installing a further 512mb and will be interested to see if the extra memory will enable me to further reduce CPU temps... logically speaking I will expect to see a decrease.
So if I am right, the extra memory, AND some reg tweaks to make use of it properly could potentially have an impact on overall system temps as well as giving a performance increase. sorry to be a bit vague on what the benefits may be, but I will post more when i have experimented further.
I would go for the extra memory anyhows, because as has been said before in the thread, extra memory=Extra performance in most cases. 512mb seems a bit low for such a powerfull processor.
There are other tweaks out there for instance enabling largesystemcache that can make a difference to larger memory systems. I dont want to recomend this one as though it seemed to help me, there is differing advice out there as to wether it is worth making. i will play with it more before recommending. If anyone else wants to have a go it would be good to see what effect it has on more than just one system.
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Tibors
- Patron of SPCR
- Posts: 2674
- Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2004 6:07 am
- Location: Houten, The Netherlands, Europe
tempeteduson wrote:AFAIK the Nexus does not start reliably at 5 V, but perhaps some samples can.
You got some conflicting advice here, so I'll chime in too. Not all Nexus 120mm fans start with 5V. Most of them will keep running at 5V after being started at a higher voltage.jaganath wrote:Yes, the Nexus runs at 5V, sometimes even lower!
Thanks a lot guys for the warm welcome - lost of usefull stuff there.
So currently I'm considering these changes:
PSU: S12-330 instead of 430.
Comment: Can't find the 380 it seems in Denmark.
CPU Cooler: XP-90 instead of XP-120.
Comment: Calls for a smaller Nexus too of course, but will be cheaper, easier to install and is almost 100% certain to fit on the MB and in the case next to the PSU.
Keep it comming if I left something out. Appreciate it very much.
So currently I'm considering these changes:
PSU: S12-330 instead of 430.
Comment: Can't find the 380 it seems in Denmark.
CPU Cooler: XP-90 instead of XP-120.
Comment: Calls for a smaller Nexus too of course, but will be cheaper, easier to install and is almost 100% certain to fit on the MB and in the case next to the PSU.
Keep it comming if I left something out. Appreciate it very much.
Last edited by Nikolajc on Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
My 2 pence:
I've had a few problems with kingston valueram before, I would go with 2 crucial sticks instead as you want things to be reliable. Also I might be tempted to do a quick mod on the rear exhaust to fit a 80mm nexus fan instead of the two 60mm, although as you've said, you probably won't need any additional case fans.
I've had a few problems with kingston valueram before, I would go with 2 crucial sticks instead as you want things to be reliable. Also I might be tempted to do a quick mod on the rear exhaust to fit a 80mm nexus fan instead of the two 60mm, although as you've said, you probably won't need any additional case fans.
Would probably be a good idea, probably I'll mod the two 60 mm holes to fit a single bigger fan like someone else suggested. Sounds good. - what hardware do I need to control this backup fan? Should be able to shut it off completely I recon.jaganath wrote:Yes. However you may find that you will need to keep at least one of them for emergency/max power draw cooling.Should I remove the 3 case fans if I don't use them?
Hm it looks like a PSU like this one: http://www.silentpcshop.nl/index.php?pnr=05&product=211
Could actually do the trick with back-up case fan. I wonder how it measures up towards the Seasonic though.
Could actually do the trick with back-up case fan. I wonder how it measures up towards the Seasonic though.
Ok - got everything hooked up nicely (apart from some S3 resume problems).
Don't know what to say about the Nexus PSU though. Seems to kick in at a relative low temperature, which wouldn't be a problem because it's very silent in the low speeds, but it uses a full spinup to full speed for a second to make sure the fan starts - which is really quite noisy.
Do you think by any chance that I could change these thresholds if I open it up? Have emailed them directly too, but maybe somebody else have tried it.
Don't know what to say about the Nexus PSU though. Seems to kick in at a relative low temperature, which wouldn't be a problem because it's very silent in the low speeds, but it uses a full spinup to full speed for a second to make sure the fan starts - which is really quite noisy.
Do you think by any chance that I could change these thresholds if I open it up? Have emailed them directly too, but maybe somebody else have tried it.