Upgrade from Athlon Xp-M 2500+ to 64 world

[fabre]

With Oblivion coming soon, it's going to be time to upgrade a bit my system.

My current sytem:

Antec SLK300B w/ bequiet!
2 x 120mm Silentblade @ 5v
Super Tornado 400w
A7N8X-X, Athlon XP-M 2500+ 11x200 @ 1.575v
SP-97 + Nexus 92mm,
2 x 512 DDR Samsung PC3200
2 x 7200.7 120GB
X800 XT PE with VF700-Cu @ 5v
DVD/CDRW combo drive
DVD-RW/DVD+RW

I'd like to keep as much of the original sytem as possible so I was thinking of getting an ASrock 939Dual-SATA2 ULi M1695 for the motherboard that way I keep my AGP video card and will have the option to upgrade to a PCIe video card when it start showing its weakness.

Cooling wise I am planning on a Thermalright XP-120 with a 120mm nexus.

So I would be keeping Video card, Ram, HDs, PSU, optical drives and case.

Where I am undecided is the CPU, I know the AM2 line is going to come Q2 so hopefully S939 cpu prices are going to go down.

Right now the cpu seems to be the bottleneck in my pc when it comes to gaming but what should I get that would be in line with my video card? An Athlon 64, Athlon 64 X2 or an Opteron?
And what speed? is more really the better? wouldn't an high end cpu hit the limit of my cpu? especially since I will probably move the OS to a SATA drive and maybe add another 2 x 512 DDR Samsung PC3200?

[scandium]

Each has their advantages & drawbacks:

Athlon64 (single core): often the best bang for the buck for raw cpu power and processor speed. Dual cores are not yet that widely supported application/game wise (since few apps/games have been multithreading recoded/developed).

Opteron (single core): double the L2 cache compared to venice (1 MB vs 512K) but not many apps/games benefit much (or at all) from the extra cache - except for winrar (and other similarly memory intensive programs) and synthetic benchmarks. Generally regarded as more overclockable than Athlon64 though (if this is your thing), but no guarantees as always with OC'ing.

Athlon X2: useful right now if you do a lot of multitasking since one task can run on one core and another on the other core. Will become increasing beneficial over time as current apps/games are recoded to take advantage of dual core & new ones are developed with it in mind. But clock for clock much more expensive.

Opteron (dual core): Opteron equivalent of X2, with pros/cons given above.

[geforce1]

Here's what I know about what AMD64 CPU that you might be looking for:

Athlon 64 single-core: Solid choice, least expensive, low heat output. Venice cores have 512KB L2 while the San Diegos have 1MB L2.

Athlon 64 X2: More power-efficient than the Pentium D and should be better in almost every task. Toledo cores (2x 1MB L2) are faster than Manchesters (2x 512KB L2).

Opteron single-core: More expensive than a single-core A64, but have 1MB L2 cache and overclock like crazy.

Opteron dual-core: More expensive than the X2, but 1MB of L2 cache per core and incredible overclocking potential.

I can't comment much on the stock coolers, but the cooler that comes with the slower 67W TDP Venices (an all-aluminum unit with a 70mm 3,000rpm fan) isn't all that quiet. But then again you're looking at an XP-120.

I've got an SI-120 with a medium speed Yate Loon mounted on a ASRock 939Dual-SATA2 board and it's awesome at just about any fan speed.

You'll need a backplate and some insulating material (like cardboard) for the backplate to mount the XP/SI-120 to the ASRock board, should you choose to get it. BTW it supports CnQ (but no automatic fan speed control) and undervolting to 0.8V but only overvolts 0.05v above stock.

You might want to look at this page if you're leaning towards the ASRock board.
http://www.ocworkbench.com/ocwbcgi/ulti ... aysPrune=0

[fabre]

From a budget perspective, I'd like to stay around $200 cnd for the cpu

So that would put me in the price range of the Opteron 144, Athlon 64 3000 and 3200.

I like the Opteron for it's 1MB L2 cache and OC capability but the Athlon 64 3000 is supposed to be a good overclocker as well, but given the limted oc of the Asrock motherboard does that make the Opteron a better choice?
With a motherboard that overvolts only 0.05v above stock how high could I hope to OC it?
And temp wise does an Opteron run cooler than an equivalent Athlon 64 or is it about the same?

[flarkit]

If you have a choice between the Opteron 144, 3000+, or Venice CPU's, I'd vote for the Opteron. Most of the steppings o/c very well on stock voltages (which is good for your Asrock board). I'd check on some of the dedicated o/c forums for more info, but I'd be more in-favour of the 1Mb L2 cache too.

[QuietOC]

How about speeding up your Barton a little more? Understand that the only real advantage of the K8 platform over your K7 is the reduced memory latency. The bang-for-your-buck cpu market has been pretty much stagnent for the past four years. (I don't even think the XP-M was a worth while improvement over my Thoroughbred-B 1700+.)

Anyway, I went from the Barton 2500+ XP-M which worked great at (12.5x200MHz) 2.5GHz to a 90nm Socket 754 Sempron 2800+ which works great at 2.4GHz. Performance, ease of cooling is pretty much a wash between the two. Maybe I had a very good Barton and a fairly poor Sempron.

Yes, I went from dual channel to single channel, but the on die memory controller makes all the difference. I even recently tried out a A64 3200+ socket 929--No, extra real performance improvement over the Sempron (unless you plan on using an IGP for graphics). I have now sold my "dual" PC3200 sticks to get a single 1GB stick.

The wise choice would have been to stick with the Barton. Buying new ever so often is nice to keep everything covered under waranty I guess.

Socket 939 prices are going to go up not down. They have been going up the past few months. AMD is not going to release Socket 939 Semprons and it has/is discontinuing the A64 3000+ for Socket 939. It sounds like AMD will have low-end CPU's for the new socket, but I doubt the new socket will bring any real performance advantage over the current ones. (well, DDR2 does run a little cooler than DDR. That might be a tiny advantage.)

PS: The Scythe Ninja is one other good reason to get away from Socket A.

PPS: Cheap PCIe video is another good reason. Sell your current card and get an X800GTO with the same perfomance for about $100 less.

[scandium]

Socket 939 prices are going to go up not down. They have been going up the past few months.

I've noticed they've gone up as well, though here in Canada its only this month that they suddenly began to surge upward (at least on the CPUs we were following: I'd ordered new board/cpu in Dec and a friend of mine just last week did the same). I agree that both 939 & 754 cpus will probably continue to slowly increase (and be gradually phased out) as AMD begins to move their entire cpu line to the new AM2 when it comes out. Probably, since like any other new CPU, the AM2 will be pricey (due to initial manufacturing costs, etc) and to "cushion" this and encourage consumers to switch it seems AMD will do so by making existing 939/754 less attractive price wise. And its not like they don't have plenty of pricing room to do this with their only competitor, Intel, charging much more already for any given level of processor performance.

[fabre]

How about speeding up your Barton a little more?

Believe me I tried but anything past 11x200 @ 1.575v doesn't seem to be stable. Not sure if it' because of the cpu or motherboard

[mshan]

Great resource for AMD mobos:

http://amdforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=8

The sticky and Senor Panadero are awesome sources that might help you squeeze out all of the performance possible on that Asus mobo.

[stupid]

With Oblivion coming soon, it's going to be time to upgrade a bit my system.

I too am looking forward to Oblivion, and will be upgrading to a new PC sometime this year.

I am also overclocking my Athlon XP-M to 2.2GHz @ 1.575v. I would say it should be good enough to play Oblivion since they recommend at least a 2.0GHz CPU. The Athlon XP generally performs better than a P4, depending on the game engine design. IIRC an Athlon XP @ 2.2GHz ias a rough equivalent to a P4 @ 2.4GHz.

You may want to wait until the game comes out before upgrading to determine if you need an immediate upgrade. As you stated AM2 will come out in Q2, Intel recently announced they will cut CPU prices in June. AMD will also cut prices in June as well to remain competitive with Intel.

[~El~Jefe~]

hey you know what? Oblivion is supposed to use shader 3.0.

the game is an outdoords woodsy game. I can't wait for it honestly. It is the reason I am upgrading without getting x800 series from ati. I will wait for the game to come out, then buy a x1800XL card. (trying to stall it so prices drop... sighs... so darn expensive!)

x800 does shader 2.x but is a great card.

I would get x800 GTO if i had to choose a cheaper card.

6800 GS for gaming is perfect but like I duno about other things like analog 2d text.

[QuietOC]

How about speeding up your Barton a little more?

Believe me I tried but anything past 11x200 @ 1.575v doesn't seem to be stable. Not sure if it' because of the cpu or motherboard

Well, that's rather low voltage. Try like 1.7~1.8. That should get you near 2.4GHz and shouldn't be too much harder to cool.

Hm... I remember mine needed 2.3V to get to 2.7GHz which was the limit of my Epox 8RDA+--and pulling enough current that it burned out a nice 300W power supply. That was with a 92mm Sunon, just to see what was possible. I didn't normally run it that high--2.5GHz at maybe 2.0V. So, yes, you will have to push the core voltage, but you do have a good cooler, you will need a faster, medium speed fan, and put up with slightly more noise. I had a SLK-947 and built a simple cardboard duct to use all the airflow of a nice medium speed Sanyo Denki 92mm fan.

[stupid]

How about speeding up your Barton a little more?

Believe me I tried but anything past 11x200 @ 1.575v doesn't seem to be stable. Not sure if it' because of the cpu or motherboard

Well, that's rather low voltage. Try like 1.7~1.8. That should get you near 2.4GHz and shouldn't be too much harder to cool.

Not all CPUs are the same. Fabre's Athlon XP-M may not be able to be pushed that far. I certainly wouldn't push my own XP-M that hard, especially since I would have to max out the fan speed of my Zalman 7000 AlCu, and I intend to sell the CPU.

As I stated before, Athlons clock for clock performs better than the Pentium 4 in most games, if not all. Oblivion is not out yet, I think Q1 was announce, but Q1 2006 for Bethesda Software is February '06 to April '06, so it could be another 2 month wait. The best thing to do is sit tight, and maybe suffer through June '06 when another price drop will take place.

[fabre]

Believe me I tried but anything past 11x200 @ 1.575v doesn't seem to be stable. Not sure if it' because of the cpu or motherboard

Well, that's rather low voltage. Try like 1.7~1.8. That should get you near 2.4GHz and shouldn't be too much harder to cool.

Not all CPUs are the same. Fabre's Athlon XP-M may not be able to be pushed that far. I certainly wouldn't push my own XP-M that hard, especially since I would have to max out the fan speed of my Zalman 7000 AlCu, and I intend to sell the CPU.

I concur, I did play with the Vcore and eventhough I got to boot in windows at 2.4 and 2.5 it's was just not stable (crash, reboot, freeze)
And at 2.3 with an higher vcore, I didn't the think the extra heat was worth the minimal speed increase compared to 2.2.
1.575 v is the lowest vcore on that motherboard.