Advice for a great Vista ready P150 system?

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andras
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Advice for a great Vista ready P150 system?

Post by andras » Thu May 11, 2006 11:37 am

I'm going to build my second silent system after a Shuttle Zen and I hope that great people here will help me again.

I would like to use Antec's P150 case for a system ready to run smoothly and fast the future Windows Vista. For now it should run Windows XP Media Center Edition for all my jobs (office applications, web authoring and computer aided translation) and media center needs (PVR, music box, photos). Gaming is not required, but for the rest I would like to have excellent graphics.

Can you suggest me reliable components working nicely together? I would like to avoid issues as the incompatibility of the P150's PSU with a motherboard (or as it happened in the past with my Zen: incompatibility between the stock fan and the stock motherboard!).

Thank you very much in advance for your help.

Andras

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Re: Advice for a great Vista ready P150 system?

Post by Trunks » Thu May 11, 2006 5:26 pm

andras wrote: ready to run smoothly and fast the future Windows Vista. For now it should run Windows XP Media Center Edition
I dont think anyone knows what Vista will support TV tunner wise yet.

vitaminc
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Post by vitaminc » Thu May 11, 2006 7:44 pm

I would hold off on "vista competible" media center PC.

derekva
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Post by derekva » Thu May 11, 2006 8:26 pm

Well, I can't say with 100% certainty, but the Hauppauge 150 and the ATI Theater 550-based cards will most likely be supported.

In regards to the remaining hardware, you can make a pretty educated guess. Dual core is pretty much a must (you can go single core, but dual core will make a big difference). Lots of RAM (e.g. > 1024MB if possible) and as new of a video card as possible (since you want one that supports HDCP) are also a shoo-in.

If I were planning a Vista machine right now, here's what I'd go with:

Case: Antec P150 (for desktop - for media center, I'd get a HTPC chassis)
PSU: Seasonic S12-430
CPU: Intel Conroe dual-core (yeah, I'm an AMD guy and the Conroe won't be out for quite a while, but it's gonna be huge)
RAM: 2048MB of whatever DDR2 RAM is appropriate for Conroe
Motherboard: Whatever top-end board Intel produces for Conroe
HDD: Seagate Barracuda ST3750840AS (the new 750GB SATAII drive)
Analog Tuner: PowerColor T55EP03 (gotta use that 1x PCIe slot for something!)
Digital Tuner: Whatever new cablecard tuner is available with Vista
Sound: onboard
Video: nVidia 7600GS (when someone makes one with full HDCP support)

Of course, this is just my $0.02. YMMV.

-Derek

p.s. to be perfectly honest, when I do finally upgrade to Vista, the only changes for my MCE system will most likely be to replace the motherboard with a S754 board that supports 16x PCIe, double the RAM to 2048MB and replace the current 9600XT with the aforementioned nVidia 7600GS that supports HDCP. Oh yeah, and add a cablecard tuner. :D
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andras
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Post by andras » Fri May 12, 2006 7:19 am

Thank you for your replys.

I can add some component later to complete the media center functions, but I need the basic functions very soon because I have to give my present computer (Shuttle Zen) to my dad.

CASE: In my tiny home the P-150 will serve for work and leisure as well. But is the stock PSU that bad? My idea was to keep it and choose some mobo compatible with it.

MOTHERBOARD: I need something available right now (and I'm in Italy where availability is not so immediate as in the US).

CPU: I need it right now too. And I'm very confused about CPUs. I would like to build a fast but silent and power efficient system to run 24/7.

VIDEO: Also this I have to purchase right now. In alternative (if it is worth to wait for a better card), I could go with some onboard solution and add a card later, but I'm not sure if it is a good idea. What do you think? Again: I'm not a gamer, but I want the best in graphics for the rest.

Any additional advice?

Many thanks,
Andras

nemo
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Post by nemo » Sat May 13, 2006 6:48 am

Hi!

I would get:
A8N VN CSM (onboard vga)
Athon X2 3800
Seasonic S12 330 or 380

Cheers!

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Post by jackylman » Sat May 13, 2006 7:42 am

And your reason for upgrading to Vista is..?

Right now, Vista looks like it's going to be a resource hog while giving little in return (except for a pain in the @$$ with DRM).

I finally upgraded from Win98 last year because it didn't support some of the hardware I wanted. I don't plan on upgrading from XP for another 4 or 5 years.

andras
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Post by andras » Sat May 13, 2006 2:28 pm

What do you think about mobo A8N-SLI Premium paired with the AMD X2 3800+ dualcore cpu?

Nemo, did you mean the A8N-VM CSM? The onboard graphics sounds as a good solution until Vista is out...

Jackylman, I would like to upgrade to Vista when it will be out because I really hope in improved features. I know Win98 boots faster even on slow systems. As with everything there are pros and cons...

nemo
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Post by nemo » Sun May 14, 2006 8:19 am

Yes i mean the A8N-VM CSM.

Its onboard graphics support directx9, so you are all set for vista even with the onboard gfx.

Are you sure you want to go sli? I think sli is a huge contradiction to silent computing.

andras
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Post by andras » Sun May 14, 2006 11:04 am

Nemo, sli was just an idea. I don't know mobos and processors, so I'm trying to follow other people. Why the sli is a contradiction to silence? I've seen that Mike Chin have used recently this mobo to build a silent system for a friend in Thailand (http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewto ... ght=torrid). I know only what I need the system for and that I want a silent pc. I'm open for your advice. The Vista proof onboard graphics is also a great plus. Is the A8N-VM CSM fanless too? The Antec P-150 with its stock NeoHE-430 would be ok to house the system or I should really go to use a Seasonic PSU? Do you have some suggestion for other components too? Sorry for the many questions and thank you for your patience.

jaganath
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Post by jaganath » Sun May 14, 2006 4:21 pm

Why the sli is a contradiction to silence?
Generally double video cards means double the heat output which can mean double the noise output (not always, but mostly).
Is the A8N-VM CSM fanless too?
yes
The Antec P-150 with its stock NeoHE-430 would be ok to house the system or I should really go to use a Seasonic PSU?
There are problems between NeoHE and Asus motherboards, and Seasonic is the best fanned PSU, taking into consideration noise, efficiency and reliability.

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Post by JVM » Sun May 14, 2006 4:34 pm

nemo wrote:Yes i mean the A8N-VM CSM.

Its onboard graphics support directx9, so you are all set for vista even with the onboard gfx.

Are you sure you want to go sli? I think sli is a huge contradiction to silent computing.
I believe Vista will have DirectX 10.
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Post by autoboy » Sun May 14, 2006 5:36 pm

I would get this board:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813138264

and a 3800+

This will be a good board, has DX9 video that is fast enough for anything but the latest games, and is undervoltable. When vista comes out this can take any video card you want. Only problem i see with this board is the lack of DVI output which isn't really that big of a deal if you can use the VGA.

andras
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Post by andras » Tue May 16, 2006 3:03 pm

Thank you for helping me!

After reading your advices my idea is stick with this:

Motherboard: A8N-VM CSM
CPU: Athon X2 3800+
Case: Antec P-150
PSU: trying stock Antec NeoHE 430, if incompatible and not replaced quickly by Antec, Seasonic S-12 330 or 380
RAM: 2 x 1 Gb

What heatsink do you recommend? Is heatsink passive cooling safe/possible or a fan is required too?

Any recommedation for a first hard drive around 100 Gb (in a second time I intend to add a bigger hard drive for media)?

Which are the best brands for the RAM (2 x 1Gb)?

Can you recommend also some good DVD reader/writer?

Thank you again for the great help!

Andras

andras
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Post by andras » Thu May 18, 2006 12:15 pm

Microsoft has published some official guidelines for Vista ready computers: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/g ... fault.mspx

You can gain some interesting information also from this article and sources indicated in this article: http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1963813,00.asp

Any more advice for my system (and maybe other's)? Especially for the heatsink...

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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Thu May 18, 2006 8:35 pm

I have some tips on directx 10.

it is basically 9 with some added really good things, but, as far as video cards go, if you have a top model now, either a x1900 or 7900 series card, really, not much to see here. I have gleaned a bit about it, and it seems to be first an attempt to unify video card standards.

to me, that means these standards will be sub par compared to current 350+ dollar options. Never know, this is true, but vista's requirements and development are OLDER than current graphics cards. I have no doubt ati and nvidia will try to rob us again for directx10 compatible cards, but I feel it is different this time around. Unsupported opinions some say, but all opinions are unsupported if you really look at them.

I tihnk vista, directx10, all that, is just an attempt to make more money and provide less freedom.

I would not want a AM2 chip and board. I would not want virtualization. I would not want just about anything that vista offers, EXCEPT for:

actual 64 bit support for my hot 4200 x2 chip. It deserves a real home.

of course, benchmarks will fail on non 32 bit os's so basically, that dream is pointless.

Vista, i would point to this: 2.2 ghz dual core or faster, 2-4 gigs of ram, a real video card (no 7300 or 7600 or x1600, etc) in terms of full usage.

That being said, if you dont register your copy, you use the graphical interface of Vista. I think even if i buy it, ill want to do this!

Vista sure aint for the people. That's kinda obvious.

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Post by derekva » Thu May 18, 2006 9:12 pm

jackylman wrote:And your reason for upgrading to Vista is..?

Right now, Vista looks like it's going to be a resource hog while giving little in return (except for a pain in the @$$ with DRM).

I finally upgraded from Win98 last year because it didn't support some of the hardware I wanted. I don't plan on upgrading from XP for another 4 or 5 years.
If Andras wants to run Windows Media Center Edition with support for cablecard tuners (e.g. non-QUAM HD and support of channels > 100), then he'll need to go with Vista.

Also, Vista brings enhanced security (compared to XP) and DX10 to the table as well...not just DRM.

-Derek
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Post by derekva » Thu May 18, 2006 9:19 pm

~El~Jefe~ wrote:I have some tips on directx 10.

it is basically 9 with some added really good things, but, as far as video cards go, if you have a top model now, either a x1900 or 7900 series card, really, not much to see here. I have gleaned a bit about it, and it seems to be first an attempt to unify video card standards.

to me, that means these standards will be sub par compared to current 350+ dollar options. Never know, this is true, but vista's requirements and development are OLDER than current graphics cards. I have no doubt ati and nvidia will try to rob us again for directx10 compatible cards, but I feel it is different this time around. Unsupported opinions some say, but all opinions are unsupported if you really look at them.

I tihnk vista, directx10, all that, is just an attempt to make more money and provide less freedom.

I would not want a AM2 chip and board. I would not want virtualization. I would not want just about anything that vista offers, EXCEPT for:

actual 64 bit support for my hot 4200 x2 chip. It deserves a real home.

of course, benchmarks will fail on non 32 bit os's so basically, that dream is pointless.

Vista, i would point to this: 2.2 ghz dual core or faster, 2-4 gigs of ram, a real video card (no 7300 or 7600 or x1600, etc) in terms of full usage.

That being said, if you dont register your copy, you use the graphical interface of Vista. I think even if i buy it, ill want to do this!

Vista sure aint for the people. That's kinda obvious.
I've been Beta testing Vista on an old machine (1.8GHz Celeron, 1GB DDR266 RAM, GeForce 6200/128 AGP) and while it is slower than XP, it runs just fine. Put it on something modern (like an X2 3800+, 2GB DDR400, 7600GT) and it should perform quite well.

The tricky thing will be finding a video card (PCIe 16x, natch) that will support HDCP on DVI / HDMI as that will be needed to display HD content in Vista (damn the movie studios -- they're just as bad as the RIAA).

-Derek
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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Fri May 19, 2006 4:55 am

Tip 2:

do not buy am2, do not buy conroe. Do not buy vista. do not buy hdcp compatible things.

DO buy hack programs and boxes that strip drm from blu ray. Do buy 939 dual cores. It is OBVIOUS that vista is being made to control these anti-hack methods.

Imagine having a legit copy of windows, a legit blu-ray disk, a blu-ray player, all purchased and registered ultra-way above 1080p standard monitor, and yet Microsoft will prevent you from watching it above 480p?

yay, cant wait for vista.

When vista becomes standard, I will make the blind dive to Linux 100%.

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Post by SLOTh » Sun May 21, 2006 11:07 am

~El~Jefe~ wrote:Tip 2:

do not buy am2, do not buy conroe. Do not buy vista. do not buy hdcp compatible things.

DO buy hack programs and boxes that strip drm from blu ray. Do buy 939 dual cores. It is OBVIOUS that vista is being made to control these anti-hack methods.

Imagine having a legit copy of windows, a legit blu-ray disk, a blu-ray player, all purchased and registered ultra-way above 1080p standard monitor, and yet Microsoft will prevent you from watching it above 480p?

yay, cant wait for vista.

When vista becomes standard, I will make the blind dive to Linux 100%.
Hello Troll....
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Post by qviri » Sun May 21, 2006 11:10 am

He does have a point. I like to do what I like to do with my files.
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Post by SLOTh » Sun May 21, 2006 11:28 am

Ya but lets hold off and see what micro$oft does... instead of bashing them and anybody else who is comming up with some sort of new technology that has the potential of hampering one's ability to use thier compy the way they want... maybe i am just a natural optamist. (sp)
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Post by Ackelind » Sun May 21, 2006 12:44 pm

Windows XP, being several years old, isn't even fast on my A64 3000+ with 1Gb RAM. I just hate the way this is going..
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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Sun May 21, 2006 9:10 pm

Vista is to make money for everyone but you.

xp was to make a real OS before Linux became huge so they wouldnt lose money.

if it didnt go right and another windows 98 came out, it would have been toast.

vista is to generate more cash, create a need for more computing power, and to give companies full control over how you use your own files and programs.

yay.

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Post by Beyonder » Mon May 22, 2006 6:41 pm

derekva wrote:
jackylman wrote:And your reason for upgrading to Vista is..?

Right now, Vista looks like it's going to be a resource hog while giving little in return (except for a pain in the @$$ with DRM).

I finally upgraded from Win98 last year because it didn't support some of the hardware I wanted. I don't plan on upgrading from XP for another 4 or 5 years.
If Andras wants to run Windows Media Center Edition with support for cablecard tuners (e.g. non-QUAM HD and support of channels > 100), then he'll need to go with Vista.

Also, Vista brings enhanced security (compared to XP) and DX10 to the table as well...not just DRM.
Not to beat a dead horse, but Vista brings quite a bit more to the table than most people think. People said the same thing about XP verses Windows 2000 ("It's just a pretty version of Windows 2000!"), but I wouldn't touch W2K with a ten foot pole. Neither would anyone else who has honestly read the difference between the two kernals. This isn't even touching the other aspects of the OS that have been hugely improved.
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Post by derekva » Mon May 22, 2006 9:39 pm

~El~Jefe~ wrote:Tip 2:

do not buy am2, do not buy conroe. Do not buy vista. do not buy hdcp compatible things.

DO buy hack programs and boxes that strip drm from blu ray. Do buy 939 dual cores. It is OBVIOUS that vista is being made to control these anti-hack methods.

Imagine having a legit copy of windows, a legit blu-ray disk, a blu-ray player, all purchased and registered ultra-way above 1080p standard monitor, and yet Microsoft will prevent you from watching it above 480p?

yay, cant wait for vista.

When vista becomes standard, I will make the blind dive to Linux 100%.
MSFT isn't the one to blame for all the HDCP/DRM crap in Vista - if you'd been sued as many times as MS, wouldn't you play it safe when you have the MPAA and the federal government (hello Digital Millenium Copyright Act) pushing for broad adoption?

FWIW, Apple uses DRM as well (and gee, it's UNIX based), so let's not go on a bullshit anti-MSFT rant today, OK? If you want to go to Linux that's fine. Personally, I'd rather have a machine that works out of the box with 90% of the desktop software available in the market. :D

-Derek
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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Tue May 23, 2006 11:51 am

It also has the added feature of no support for 32 bit games in the 64 bit REAL vista version. If it works great, if it does not, not our problem. Also, if it does work these games and things we run now should run slower on 64 bit vista.

without 64 bits and faster/easier operation, why bother moving up?

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Post by Beyonder » Sat May 27, 2006 9:34 am

~El~Jefe~ wrote:It also has the added feature of no support for 32 bit games in the 64 bit REAL vista version. If it works great, if it does not, not our problem. Also, if it does work these games and things we run now should run slower on 64 bit vista.

without 64 bits and faster/easier operation, why bother moving up?
I'm not totally sure what you're getting at, but 64-bit versions of Vista have full backwards compatibility with 32 bit applications via WOW64. Obviously developers can do dumb things to break that compatibility, but that's not MSFT's fault. MSFT is at fault for a lot of things, but backwards/sideways software compatibility is not one of them.

To be honest, I think MSFT shoots themselves in the foot trying to be compatible with such a huge assortment of hardware and software platforms. Unlike Apple, which is fairly aggressive about "out with the old, and in with the new" breaking changes, MSFT has this asinine policy of being backwards compatible with junk from well over a decade ago.
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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Sun May 28, 2006 3:53 pm

What is windows going to say? OUr crap wont work?

yeah sure.

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Post by jackylman » Sun May 28, 2006 4:22 pm

Beyonder wrote:MSFT has this asinine policy of being backwards compatible with junk from well over a decade ago.
I don't see a correlation between age of software and its usefulness. Just ask the people programming COBOL.

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