Want a new build but have 1000 questions (sorta long)

vfrex · Post by **vfrex** » Wed May 17, 2006 5:52 pm

Three quick links for reference that might give you the flow of my ideas. I will summarize and expand on what is in these links, so they are not critical to read. Anyway, in chronological order:

http://episteme.arstechnica.com/groupee ... 0005978731
http://episteme.arstechnica.com/groupee ... 2008998731
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1054938

My current roughly 3 year old build is as follows:

Kingwin Kt-436-WM Case (http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1744)
420w Thermaltake Power Supply
AMD Barton 2800+
Coolermaster Aero 7 Lite
Radeon 9800 Pro
512 Crucial Pc2700 Ram
SB Audigy 2 ZS
CD-RW
DVD-Rom
Floppy

3 years isn't that long, but the machine is showing its age and weaknesses. It was my first build, assisted by a friend. I didn't really know what I was doing. We couldn't get more than 512 ram to run stable. I have come to notice that it sounds like a rocket taking off in the room it is in, and it is difficult to isolate the noise. I don't mind the sound when I'm blasting metal or playing a game, but I want more from my machine. I want to be able to leave it on at night AND sleep. With the combination of the computer becoming relatively slow, and my demand for quiet computing increasing, it seemed to be time to build something new.

As such, I began researching and configuring mock systems starting in late April. I have spent a ridiculous amount of time reading and searching, and I am hoping that with this post, I will be able to bring everything together, weed out my last questions, and prepare to actually build. In trying to decide on components, I have run into the problem that even after I decide on component A, an issue exists with component B, which causes component A to change as well.

There are probably two key words for this machine: versatile and quiet. Versatile means it needs to be able to play modern games, such as Oblivion. I don't need to have extreme FPS and the highest resolution possible. Although they won't be frequent tasks, it should be able to encode/decode video or participate in DC tasks such as Folding@. It needs to be able to cool itself effectively in those scenarios. On the other hand, if I decide to leave the computer on running gAIM and Thunderbird as I attempt to sleep in the same room, I do not want to hear it. I'm not particularly good at blocking out/getting used to noises or lights as I try to sleep. I am also not good at sleeping without peace of mind. If my fans are running on idle/low mode as I attempt to sleep, I want to be confident that if the house heats up/catches on fire, the fans will speed up and keep heat flowing out.

Before I jump into the components, let me just outline a bit more of what I plan to do. As AM2, Conroe, 65nm AMD processors, and DX10 video cards are expected within the next year, and which might be relatively larger than normal technological leaps, I have decided to build a "transitional" system and expect to order around mid to late June. 12+ months later, I will build an upgrade to latch onto new CPU and GPU technologies. The goal is to spend ~$1500 on this entire scheme. The initial build should be around 1000, and the upgrade 500. When I upgrade, I will reuse the case, power supply, and most likely the sound card (the audigy ZS). The transitional motherboard, cpu, video card will be installed in the old Kingwin case with the Thermaltake PSU.

Ok, enough foreplay. Here come the components I have been looking at. Of course, if you have any ideas outside of what I list, feel free to share.

Case:

$125 - Antec P180 - I like that the PSU is not roasted by the rest of the warm running components. I would prefer that the top rear case fan takes care of heat produced by the motherboard, video card, CPU, etc, rather than having the PSU share the load. Doesn't heat reduce efficiency and lifespan of power supplies?

But these Tri-speed fans aren't mounted as silently as they could be, and even with the proper mounting, they aren't the quietest of the bunch? They aren't temperature controlled, but can their speed be modified by software like Speedfan (PWM)?

$110 - Antec P150 - Good reviews, various people recommending the 150's in my threads. I am not considering it as strongly as the others, although anything is possible.

$220 - MNPCTech Modded TT Silent Swing - Skilled modding for quiet operation. Two properly mounted 120mm fans, sound deadening foam, Mitron fan controller.

Cons on this are that it is VERY expensive. We're talking about a $100 premium over the P180. I am willing to pay for quiet, but I need to make sure that the costs end there. The P180 comes with three 120mm fans, and the blowhole. Also, PSU heat doesn't play a role in heating the P180. MNPC case has two fans plus the PSU in standard position, suggesting that it is helping with expelling hot air. Am I getting worked up over nothing here? Also, a lot of my reseach has relied on customer accounts (through newegg reviews) and reviews from tech sites such as SPCR. Reviews on MNPCTech modded cases are good, but I think I have found two total. One applies to a completely different line of cases, and the other to a different (but seemingly similar) modded thermaltake case. I have no review specific to this case, which is a stark contrast to virtually every other component going into this computer.

I don't really know what this Mitron fan controller does. I have tried unsuccessfully to look up documentation or specs on it. Obviously it will let you manually change fan speed from a front bay. But I want fans connected to it to ramp up automatically if heat increases. I can't react when I'm out, sleeping, etc.

The case is definitely made for quiet computing. I guess I just have a lot of questions lingering about its versatility.

Processor:

This will be the transitional processor for ~1 year. It will then turn into a backup for me or will trickle down to someone else in my family with less powerful computing needs. I am looking in the $90-120 range, and am leaning towards a
$92 - Sempron 64 3100+ Palermo (256 L2 Cache)
alternatively
$113 - AMD 64 3000+ (512 L2 Cache)

From what I have read, it seems that the Palermo can handle tasks well enough. It should be a decent step up from the Barton, and should hold me over for a while.

HSF:

I will start off with stock and see where it gets me. It will probably be too loud, possibly inadequate. I was leaning heavily towards one of the AC64 coolers, but they are a lot bigger than I thought. This computer is going to be transported a few times between school and home (a long drive). I can't see myself visiting any LAN parties, but should I be concerned about jerky movements and the case being bounced around while driving if I am using a big/heavy HS like the Scythe Ninja, Zalman, or AC?

Video Card:

$130 - Need something middle of the road. To keep things quiet, I had hoped to get a passively cooled 7600GS or 7600GT. However, inconsistent reviews and reports of high GPU core temperatures have steered me away. I think I will aim to get something around the same capability, but with some sort of aftermarket cooling solution designed to keep things quiet. As this is a recent change of heart, I don't have anything more to post about this. If you want to offer suggestions on GPU cooling or a particular card in the $100-160 range, please do. Please excuse my lack of research.

PSU:

$150 - Seasonic 600w. I could probably get away with the 500w version, but as I am planning on using this for a more serious build in the future, the 600 seems like a safer bet.

Are there any flaws in my transitional upgrade logic? Also, any thoughts about centralized automation of fan speed in the absense of temperature controlled fans?

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Wed May 17, 2006 6:47 pm

Greetings & welcome to SPCR,

I'll start where you ended: the 600watt PS is 2X bigger than you need, period. An Athlon 64 3200+/1GB/6600/FOUR hd's/two optical drives, etc. won't even make a 300watt PS sweat!

Save your money, and/or buy a 3200+ or 3500+.

This system I'm refering to used a mere Zalman 7000 Al/Cu, and even ran passively at least half the time -- and I didn't even undervolt it. The PS was a Fortron "Green" 300watt, and I used an Evercase 4252, with a medium speed Yate Loon at 5-6volts.

As for the case, I'd either wait for the Antec "Solo", or use the Evercase 4252 or the SLK3000B. A SeaSonic S12 PS (330, 380, or 430), or the Fortron "Green" 300-400watt models.

The Scythe Ninja can most likely passively cool any of the processors you mention; especially easily if you undervolt it. (I have an X2 4200 running passively, undervolted by ~0.075v.) Right now, it is just 44C with both cores running Folding@Home; the room is coolish: in the mid-60's?

I like the XFX 7600GS models -- the X2 4200+ machine has two of them in SLi (I don't often stress them), and since they are "slim", there is better air flow around them. This machine has 2GB RAM, 2 HD's, 2 optical drives, and the S12 430 is yawning...

BigA · Post by **BigA** » Wed May 17, 2006 10:32 pm

As you have noticed, any system build is ultimately a series of tradeoffs.

The Seasonic S12-330 power supply would almost certainly provide enough power for the system you have described. However, the comments on the recent SPCR review of the S12-330 suggest that the S12-380 includes larger heatsinks and would provide better cooling. If you are planning to run SLI in the future, you may wish to purchase the S12-430, as the S12-380 does not include an SLI power connector.

Unless you envision extreme power requirements in the future you are unlikely to require an S12-500 or S12-600. Most SPCR computers require 100-200W. If your machine is using lots of power, it is also generating lots of heat. As power draw moves past 200W, these machines face increasingly severe challenges trying to stay quiet while evacuating heat from the case. Removing heat usually requires noise-making fans. Accordingly, you will probably want to avoid components with high power requirements.

Neil's case recommendations are spot-on, especially if you are planning this as a "transitional" system. Tearing the computer apart and upgrading the motherboard to AM2 will likely be easier with the choices Neil has suggested than with the P180. SPCR users have used all three of these systems to produce quiet machines.

However, you might reconsider whether you really want to build a transitional system. There's a decent chance that replacing your motherboard with an AM2 motherboard will result in your re-installing Windows. Do you really want to reinstall Windows? Of course, you may be unwilling to wait any longer and you might time your motherboard upgrade to coincide with an upgrade to Windows Vista in which case this could be a moot point.

If you are planning to purchase a transitional motherboard, I would recommend the socket 939 motherboard with the Athlon 64 3000 or possibly 3200 processor (depending on pricing). For a small price premium, socket 939 provides you, or whoever will inherit this motherboard, with a raft of upgrade options which are not available under socket 754. You should look for a motherboard which supports the full range of socket-939 processors (FX, Opteron, etc), as the machine which will receive this motherboard as an upgrade in the future is an excellent candidate for a CPU upgrade in a year or two. Of course, you might decide to keep the socket 939 motherboard for a couple years and upgrade the processor yourself with a higher-end processor when these become less expensive. This approach would give you 3-4 years of useful life from your "transitional" system before you upgraded the motherboard (you might even end up skipping a generation and upgrading to whatever socket succeeds AM2).

Concerning CPU coolers, if you will be dragging the machine around, you might want to focus on one of the lighter coolers which does not sit as high (cantilever force is a function of both weight and height). Whichever cooler you go with will probably go to your relative's machine along with the CPU and motherboard when you upgrade to AM2.

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Thu May 18, 2006 2:00 am

Also, any thoughts about centralized automation of fan speed in the absense of temperature controlled fans?

Some Asus motherboards, such as the A8N-VM CSM have something called Q-fan, which controls fan speeds according to system temperature.

Socket 754 is cheap, but no upgrade option. Socket 939 has upgrade options, but you want to upgrade to AM2 or Conroe, so is that really relevant?

vfrex · Post by **vfrex** » Thu May 18, 2006 5:42 am

Thanks for the welcome and all of the helpful replies.

NeilBlanchard:

I stumbled upon this PSU wattage calculator to attempt to estimate my power needs. PSU Calculator

I suppose the accuracy is questionable, but I filled out the form as follows:

Athlon 64 3000
2 sticks DDR Ram
7600GT
(1) IDE 7200
(1) SATA
DVD/RW, Floppy
Soundblaster
1 PCI, 2USB, 3 120mm

I guess the questionables are really surge compensation and capacitor aging. If I do intend on leaving this on, and the form suggests to choose 25-30%. I went with 15% surge compensation and 25% capacitor aging. That gives me 379w. Now, let's consider the upgrade. 2 sticks DDR2, Athlon 4200 X2, Geforce 7900GTX. Leaving everything else constant, it is recommending 500w.

Obviously I'd trust you guys over a calculator, but just to be sure, you would still go with an S12 430 after the upgrade I suggest above? Obviously it is difficult to predict the power needs of components that haven't been released yet, but...

BigA:

I'm a bit of a weird person. I reinstalled windows 6-7 times last summer on my computer for a variety of reasons, most of which were not particularly pressing. I am not adverse to the process.

As far as Socket 939 vs 754 goes, I have read conflicting stories. Some say that once AM2 comes out, 939 becomes a dead socket and 754 will continue. You and a number of others have suggested the complete opposite. I do want to go with the option that will provide upgrade options in the future. Do you have any sort of conclusive press releases from AMD which could clear up this confusion?

As far as lighter coolers goes, do they exist? In my search, I don't think I've seen any light + quiet + effective coolers. It's like you can only have 2/3.

jaganath:

I think I read a thread on these forums yeterday cautioning people from using 120mm fans on motherboard fan headers. Is that being overly cautious?

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Thu May 18, 2006 8:24 am

As far as lighter coolers goes, do they exist? In my search, I don't think I've seen any light + quiet + effective coolers.

IMO the Thermalright XP-120 and SI-120 are light (<400g), quiet (with the right fan) and very effective (see the Recommended Heatsinks article for the reviews).

I think I read a thread on these forums yeterday cautioning people from using 120mm fans on motherboard fan headers. Is that being overly cautious?

In my view, yes. IIRC you would have to use several 120mm fans all on the same header at full speed to overload the PCB trace. For example the Nexus 120mm takes 0.3 amps max, I believe the maximum amperage for the fan header is much higher than that. I will look for that thread and get back to you.

vfrex · Post by **vfrex** » Thu May 18, 2006 10:15 am

I was not aware that the Thermalrights were that light. They look huge!

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Thu May 18, 2006 10:24 am

vfrex wrote:I was not aware that the Thermalrights were that light. They look huge!

They ARE huge; the XP-120 in particular has a huge wingspan and can interfere with capacitors and RAM sockets on some motherboards. The SI-120 has better compatibility; both are made almost entirely of aluminium, hence the light weight.

BigA · Post by **BigA** » Thu May 18, 2006 10:47 am

[quote]As far as Socket 939 vs 754 goes, I have read conflicting stories. Some say that once AM2 comes out, 939 becomes a dead socket and 754 will continue. You and a number of others have suggested the complete opposite. I do want to go with the option that will provide upgrade options in the future. Do you have any sort of conclusive press releases from AMD which could clear up this confusion? [/quote]

AMD may well make Socket 754 for longer than Socket 939, since AM2 will replace 939. In contrast, Socket 754 might continue to be produced for Athlon Mobiles and Turions for some time after Socket 939 is discontinued.

HOWEVER, it is my understanding that Socket 754 does not have the pins to use dual channel memory and that dual channel memory is more or less a prerequisite for running dual core processors as memory bandwidth otherwise becomes a major CPU bottleneck. Thus, I would expect that the current 939 dual-core CPU's (Opteron 180, FX60) will continue to outperform the latest and greatest Socket 754 CPU's over the life of Socket 754. Even if Socket 939 processors are discontinued, you should still be able to find used processors for upgrades online. Having said this, you might also consider Socket 940. It's slightly more expensive than Socket 939, but in terms of long-term upgradeability I expect the prices of used high-end Socket 940 CPU's will drop faster than Socket 939 due to the shorter upgrade cycles for the servers and workstations which typically use Socket 940.

For information concerning lighter CPU coolers, all of the top 3-5 coolers on the SPCR recommended heatsinks list should provide good cooling. You may wish to review the pros and cons of these heatsinks for your purposes:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article30-page1.html

Finally, regarding power supply sizing, many of your concerns are addressed in these articles:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article265-page1.html
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article28-page1.html

jackylman · Post by **jackylman** » Thu May 18, 2006 12:34 pm

If you want this system to last for a while and have the option of upgrading the CPU, get a socket AM2 board. With S939, you'll be limited to an Opteron 180 or X2 4800. Those are the fastest CPU's that will be made for S939.

ultrachrome · Post by **ultrachrome** » Thu May 18, 2006 1:19 pm

Somone made a point in another thread that I agree with. I seldom upgrade a CPU without swapping the motherboard.

In fact, my CPUs generally out live my motherboard.

If you were to wait and buy AM2, from what I understand, it won't likely be any faster than what is available on 939 today.

If you wait for AM2 Conroe-beating CPUs to arrive and become affordable, your motherboard manufacturer will have likely stopped providing bios and driver updates by then.

vfrex · Post by **vfrex** » Thu May 18, 2006 2:07 pm

I am currently reviewing the links and links within links regarding power supplies. Very informative stuff. I am going to go ahead and drop my PSU to the S12 430w, as I have no intention of running SLI. I will continue reading, but I doubt that I will deviate from the 430.

As far as CPU cooling goes, I have mainly avoided the Thermalright because of the high cost. I realize that it is a high quality, silent cooler. I had just never considered paying that much. It's not that I am not willing to pay $50 for a heatsink that will provide top knotch cooling at low noise levels. But if I do follow through with my upgrade plan, that will be a big premium I pay for silence that will likely go unappreciated in the future of the rig. That said, we will see how some of these changes will effect my price target of $1000.

I'd like to ask a question about graphics cards cooling. I might still consider going with a passively cooled 7600GS, as long as I have the option of installing an aftermarket solution from Zalman or something if temperatures are getting too high. If you had to choose between two similarly priced 7600GS's, one passively cooled and one with active cooling, which would you choose? Either might result in the need for an additional VGA cooler purchase.

mattthemuppet · Post by **mattthemuppet** » Thu May 18, 2006 6:40 pm

one thing to consider with PSU sizing is to buy one where the peak efficiency matches your estimated general power draw now as you'll save more money on the purchasing cost + electricity than you would running a higher rated and more expensive PSU, which is less efficient in the range that you'll actually be using it. CPUs are getting more efficient and it doesn't sound like you're a maxFPS gamer, so it's unlikely that your power needs will increase dramatically even with the next upgrade. Apart from that is that PSU specs change every couple of years, so even if a higher rated PSU may be needed in a couple of years it may not have the specs that mobos, CPUs or GPUs need at that time.

then you can spend the difference on either a better CPU, cooler, GPU cooler/ card etc.

as for the GPU - I'd go for a passive 7600GS. It should be more than enough for your gaming needs, low power and silent. GPUs have high tolerance to high temps, so you should be okay even in a low airflow system. If you're system's going to be idling/ doing CPU only stuff most of the time, I'd look for whatever card has the lowest idle power consumption whilst providing the performance you need.

whatever mobo you get, make sure it can both undervolt the CPU and control fan speeds (using speedfan or BIOS based programs) off at least one fan header. Those 2 requirements are, IMO, 2 of the most important in quiet computing.

for the kind of CPU you're looking to get, I'd make sure that whatever HS you get, you can swap the fan on it. Given that you CPU won't be kicking out too much heat and that alot of all in one HSF have high minimum fan speeds, you may struggle to lower the noise of your HSF even if you have plenty of temperature headroom to play with.

BigA · Post by **BigA** » Fri May 19, 2006 12:32 am

Possibly the lowest cost option for a heatsink would be to try undervolting the fan on the stock heatsink. If the stock heatsink can adequately cool your CPU while undervolted, you might then swap out the fan on this heatsink with a quieter fan. I have asked around SPCR in the past whether anyone has tried this but not yet received an answer. If you do try this, please post back to the forums and let us know how it turns out. Perhaps someone reading this can comment on the likely success of this solution?

If you are looking for a heatsink which is lower cost (less than $50), lighter weight, and not very tall, you might take a look at the Thermalright XP-90 heatsink. The XP-90 was reviewed by SPCR when it first came out and compares favorably with the XP-120 (although it does run a few degrees hotter than the XP-120 or the Scythe Ninja):
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article194-page1.html

The XP-90 costs around $30 and is available from the following vendors, all of whom have been used by SPCR readers:
http://www.xoxide.com/thermalright-xp-9 ... ooler.html
http://www.jab-tech.com/product.php?productid=2921
http://heatsinkfactory.com/shop/product ... ctid=16244

You might also look at the SI-97 which is similar to the XP-90, but works on a larger number of CPU's. SVC currently has a good price on this:
http://www.svc.com/si97-amd-21.html

Please note that an XP-90 heatsink would require active cooling. When you add in the cost of a fan and a low-cost fan controller such as the Zalman Fanmate or Fanmate2, it is possible that the Scythe Ninja would cost about the same (assuming, as Neil has suggested, that you can get the Scythe Ninja to work passively). Accordingly, cost should perhaps be less of an issue than weight. Although I am unaware of anyone who has damaged their machine with a heavy heatsink, heatsink weight has been an area of some concern on SPCR.

I am currently using an XP-90 heatsink with an overclocked Athlon 64 3000 and it has worked well enough that I can run the fan at 5V. To further reduce weight, I suspended the fan over the heatsink using a Zalman fan bracket which was bent slightly to minimize the clearance between the heatsink and the fan.

In my opinion the disadvantage of the XP-90 is that you end up with two 5V fans -- one blows air downwards on the CPU while a second fan right next to the CPU cooler exhausts air from the case. Chris Thomson's recent build was able to build a duct around a Ninja tower which allowed the case fan to provide active cooling to the CPU cooler. This is an elegant solution if you are willing to take the time to build such a duct and have a solution for dealing with the weight of the CPU cooler while transporting the PC.

Hope this helps.

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Fri May 19, 2006 1:19 am

A good, cheap, light heatsink that I use is the Aerocool GT-1000; this is compatible with socket A, 754, 939, 478, LGA775 and one nice added feature is that it is gold-plated to give that added bling aesthetic.

I use it with an 80mm fan (although it can also take 92mm fans) at 5V and it keeps my CPU under 30C most of the time.

matva · Post by **matva** » Fri May 19, 2006 5:47 am

vfrex wrote:Also, any thoughts about centralized automation of fan speed in the absense of temperature controlled fans?

As mentioned, check out Asus Q-Fan. My DFI NF4 SLI-DR has similar technology which involves controlling fan speeds through the provided Smartguardian software or set it to "Automatic." I'd be willing to bet some of the other DFI motherboards have the same feature.

vfrex wrote:I am also not good at sleeping without peace of mind. If my fans are running on idle/low mode as I attempt to sleep, I want to be confident that if the house heats up/catches on fire, the fans will speed up and keep heat flowing out.

lol. Its funny because one of the reasons i got into silencing was the desire to sleep without hearing what sounded like a leaf blower. Still, even after silencing, i leave it off. Besides my room heating up to the point that i wake up uncomfortable, i think i have some sort of complex that makes me feel uneasy when it is on. I'll spare you guys on the details though.

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Fri May 19, 2006 7:44 am

Still, even after silencing, i leave it off. Besides my room heating up to the point that i wake up uncomfortable, i think i have some sort of complex that makes me feel uneasy when it is on. I'll spare you guys on the details though.

Most people need to feel absolutely safe before they can have a proper, deep sleep. This dates back to prehistoric times when going to sleep when a predator like a wolf or a tiger was about meant a premature and messy death. One reason why people cannot get to sleep when there are high levels of ambient noise is that you cannot hear if anyone is approaching. It may be that the chance of your computer's cooling mechanism failing and burning down your house, though remote, is what is making you uncomfortable about sleeping with it on. Also, it's wasteful of energy to keep it on if you're not doing anything with it.

That's my theory anyway.

vfrex · Post by **vfrex** » Fri May 19, 2006 8:06 am

I am looking at the ASUS A8N-E motherboard. It has two headers that q-fan will control, one of which is CPU. Also, Speedfan's site confirms that it can change fan speed on this board. One thing I am confused about is whether q-fan and speedfan's PWM do the same thing. If so, does that mean that SpeedFan can only control fan speed on the two headers that q-fan can?

A good, cheap, light heatsink that I use is the Aerocool GT-1000; this is compatible with socket A, 754, 939, 478, LGA775 and one nice added feature is that it is gold-plated to give that added bling aesthetic.

Perhaps light, but it scares me that it is so tall. Isn't it better if the majority of the weight is in the base? I think I am leaning towards an XP-90 for now. However, I will probably wait until I build the thing to see how the stock performs/sounds before I order a HSF.

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Fri May 19, 2006 9:21 am

I am looking at the ASUS A8N-E motherboard

The nForce4 chipset on the A8N-E runs very hot.

Perhaps light, but it scares me that it is so tall.

It's hardly the tallest heatsink out there. The Scythe Ninja, which is probably the favourite heatsink on SPCR, is 3cm taller and about 100g heavier. Also, I cannot recall a single instance where someone has reported damaging their motherboard by using a Ninja (apart from scratching the PCB when trying to install the H/S, which has nothing to do with it's weight!).

My gut feeling is that Speedfan will only be able to control the two Q-fan headers, but I don't have the board, so cannot say for sure.

BigA · Post by **BigA** » Fri May 19, 2006 9:40 am

You might take a look at passively cooled motherboards, as those tiny fans tend to be annoying. If you are going with a fanned motherboard, you should consider removing the fan and installing a passive heatsink such as the ZM-NB47J. Other passive northbridge cooling solutions are described in this link:
http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewto ... ht=zmnb47j

vfrex · Post by **vfrex** » Fri May 19, 2006 2:58 pm

BigA: Passive vs. Actively cooled motherboards has been an internal debate for me. Ultimately, I decided on an actively cooled board with the goal of putting a heatsink in place of the fan. I just seemed to have a better selection this way.

jaganath: Looking around, it doesn't seem like passively cooling the A8N-E would be a problem. Am I missing something?

Finally, going back to the cases discussion...what about a P150 and using the stock PSU? It seems that would save me another $90 over the 180 as I had initially planned, while keeping in the same range of noise as the seasonic. Evercase 4252 or SLK3000B as suggested above would end up being a similar price after buying a separate PSU.

edit: Yikes, just read the thread on the P150's PSU compatibility issues with ASUS motherboards. Back to the drawing board.

ultrachrome · Post by **ultrachrome** » Fri May 19, 2006 4:05 pm

The step between the SLK and P150 would be the Sonata. No PSU issues that I've heard of. I've been very happy with mine although I eventually did upgrade to a SeaSonic PSU. I'd use the stock PSU until you can justify upgrading it.

I heartily recommend the Ninja and a duct for CPU cooling. Currently $40 at NewEgg. I would not put a fan on the heatsink but rather rely on a duct to the case fan to take care of cooling while keeping the PSU from being saturated with heat.

I don't think you'd have transport issues as the majority of mass is right against the motherboard. As a precaution I would lay the case on its side with the side door facing up.

vfrex · Post by **vfrex** » Wed May 24, 2006 7:01 am

I think I am getting close to finalizing my components for this system. In searching for motherboards, I never considered ones with more than 1 PCI-E x16 slot as I wasn't intending on running in SLI. As a result, I skipped over some solid, passively cooled options.

So, I think I will be going with the Abit AT8. As far as I can tell, it can even control the speed of fans on all of its headers.

Case + PSU:

Option (1) - Evercase 4252 + Zalman 400W Power Supply

Option (2) - I'll have to look closer, but now that I'm off of Asus and nforce, perhaps Antec P150 with the Neo HE PSU would work. If that is the case, this option is very enticing.

Video Card: eVGA 7600GS passive as decided before

Processor: Athlon 64 3000+ Socket 939

Cooling, HSF, etc: I think I will build with the stock HSF and case fan(s), and see how I can improve from there. As a placeholder to help determine total costs, I am adding the NinjaP to my newegg "cart" ($40).

In total, the system is around $750 using the P150, and maybe $20 more using the Evercase + Zalman PSU. This is significantly cheaper than my original proposed build, and no less powerful! If I continue down my intended upgrade path, that gives me a full $750 to work with for upgrades down the line. Alternatively, perhaps I could nab a cheap X2 or FX from AM2 or Conroe switchovers to prolong the life of this build. Or, maybe I will get that UPS I've been meaning to for years...

In any case, I'd like to thank the community members that have helped me here, as well as the staff at SPCR for providing the outstanding reviews and data on quiet computing. Both have been instrumental to me in this process. And of course, if you see any flaws in the above build, please do point them out.

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Wed May 24, 2006 9:00 am

Greetings,

You don't mention the other components (RAM, HD...) but here's a list I would propose:

SONY 16X DVDÂ±R DVD Burner Black IDE Model DWQ120AB2 - OEM $36.99

SAMSUNG Combo Drive Black IDE Model SH-M522C/BEBN - OEM $24.99

Ever Case E4252BB-53 Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - $36.99

MITSUMI Black 1.44MB 3.5" Internal USB 2.0 digital card reader with Floppy Drive - OEM $19.99

SAMSUNG SpinPoint P Series HD160JJ 160GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s $67.99

ABIT AT8 32X Socket 939 ATI CrossFire Radeon XPRESS 3200 ATX AMD $177.99

ASUS EAX1600XT SILENT/TVD/256M Radeon X1600XT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 CrossFire Ready Video Card - Retail $168.99

FSP Group (Fortron Source) Green PS FSP300-60GLN ATX12V ver.2.01, Active PFC, 300W Power Supply $49.99 -$5.00 Instant $44.99

mushkin High-Performance 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model $109.99

AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Venice 2000MHz HT Socket 939 Processor Model ADA3200BPBOX - Retail $135.00

Subtotal: $823.91

Questions, if you are getting the (expensive!) Abit CrossFire mobo, I think you might want to get an ATi "CrossFire Ready" video card -- which is what I included. Also, it has 1GB of RAM, and the floppy drive includes a flash memory card reader.

I'm not sure how much power the 1600XT card takes, but I'll bet the Fortron "Green" 300watt could work with two of 'em?

Oh, I would definitely go with a Ninja right away, as installing it at the beginning is much easier! And add a nice Scythe DF or GlobalWin rear exhaust fan ($6 + $5 shipping, or $8 + shipping, respectively). Depending on your room temp, you might add an 80-92mm fan in front, too.

Want a new build but have 1000 questions (sorta long)

Want a new build but have 1000 questions (sorta long)

motherboard / cpu

Re: Want a new build but have 1000 questions (sorta long)