Open to advice/suggestions
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- Posts: 332
- Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 7:16 pm
- Location: Guelph, Canada
Open to advice/suggestions
Hello,
It's probably time that I upgraded my system. It is more than 10 years old after all.
I would really appreciate your experience and expertise in silent/quiet pc's.
I'll start with what I have. It's a P233 with 256M RAM. ASUS MB.
Many PCI cards and even some ISA cards.
The power supply is probably the noisiest component followed by the 5400 rpm 30 G Maxtor HD.
For more than 9 years I have isolated the CPU box from my working room via cables passing through the wall. This has resulted in basically a silent system.
Although I can and may resort to this same setup with my new system, I'd still like to try to avoid it.
What I'd appreciate are recommendations for:
- Case
- PSU
- MB
- All fans
- DVD recorder
- I bought a 60 G Fujitsu 2.5" notebook hd last fall (for backup purposes).
I know I'll be using a notebook hd for sure, possibly this one.
A little more background.
For me silence/quiet is the paramount feature.
Yes it would be nice to have a fast system, but not at the expense of noise.
I'm not a gamer. I have zero games.
I'm a musician, so when I make recordings, quiet is very important.
Personal observations.
I've seen many new systems in stores with the latest and greatest CPU's, memory, video etc.
Strangely however, my 10 year old P233, Win98 system boots up faster than and runs its software at speeds similar to the latest WinXP systems.
So while my new system should definitely be quiet, I'd also like to see some speed improvement, or there really isn't a point upgrading.
I have read many recommendation papers on this site, but overall they seem to be a bit dated. So top two or three picks from each of the above categories would really be appreciated.
TIA Ric
It's probably time that I upgraded my system. It is more than 10 years old after all.
I would really appreciate your experience and expertise in silent/quiet pc's.
I'll start with what I have. It's a P233 with 256M RAM. ASUS MB.
Many PCI cards and even some ISA cards.
The power supply is probably the noisiest component followed by the 5400 rpm 30 G Maxtor HD.
For more than 9 years I have isolated the CPU box from my working room via cables passing through the wall. This has resulted in basically a silent system.
Although I can and may resort to this same setup with my new system, I'd still like to try to avoid it.
What I'd appreciate are recommendations for:
- Case
- PSU
- MB
- All fans
- DVD recorder
- I bought a 60 G Fujitsu 2.5" notebook hd last fall (for backup purposes).
I know I'll be using a notebook hd for sure, possibly this one.
A little more background.
For me silence/quiet is the paramount feature.
Yes it would be nice to have a fast system, but not at the expense of noise.
I'm not a gamer. I have zero games.
I'm a musician, so when I make recordings, quiet is very important.
Personal observations.
I've seen many new systems in stores with the latest and greatest CPU's, memory, video etc.
Strangely however, my 10 year old P233, Win98 system boots up faster than and runs its software at speeds similar to the latest WinXP systems.
So while my new system should definitely be quiet, I'd also like to see some speed improvement, or there really isn't a point upgrading.
I have read many recommendation papers on this site, but overall they seem to be a bit dated. So top two or three picks from each of the above categories would really be appreciated.
TIA Ric
Re: Open to advice/suggestions
Let's start there, then: which programs do you use to make music? If you're currently mastering on a P2-233, you can't be using anything too agressive in its requirements, but it's easier to get an indication of the kind of performance you need if I know what you'll be doing with it. If you're just doing pure wave recording of live instruments, for instance, and then editing them, you'll need performance in different areas than if you're doing softsynths [hard disk versus processor]. If you're doing simple MIDI sequencing, you're not going to need the same kind of power you'd need if you're using the latest version of Reason.NoiseFreeGuy wrote:For me silence/quiet is the paramount feature.
Yes it would be nice to have a fast system, but not at the expense of noise.
I'm not a gamer. I have zero games.
I'm a musician, so when I make recordings, quiet is very important.
Also, what sort of sound card are you planning on using? Are you going to use a breakout rackmount box like the Layla, or are you planning to use a more standard soundcard, such as the SoundBlaster?
Absolutely. My P3-902mhz used to shut down Windows 2000 in under three seconds, a record unmatched by my AMD 3200+ running XP. However, the 3200+ can run tens of Combinators in Reason, and the P3-902 can only run a couple. My point: boot time isn't the be-all and end-all of PC speed.NoiseFreeGuy wrote:Personal observations.
I've seen many new systems in stores with the latest and greatest CPU's, memory, video etc.
Strangely however, my 10 year old P233, Win98 system boots up faster than and runs its software at speeds similar to the latest WinXP systems.
Last question, before I throw out my recommendations: what kind of budget are you working on? US$1,000 will get you a very different machine than US$500, for instance. [US$1,500 will get you a top-end PC well beyond your likely needs, in total silence. So if that's your budget, we'll have no problems. ]
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- Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 7:16 pm
- Location: Guelph, Canada
Re: Open to advice/suggestions
Hi Engine, thanks very much for your reply, I really appreciate it.
I do mainly pure wave recording of my guitar, making use of midi and wave backing tracks.
I use Acid Pro 4.0 mainly. I have Sonar 1.3, but even that pushes my system to the limit, and is basically unusable.
Although I have what was once a state-of the-art card, the AMIII, it's difficult to use in my system (driver problems etc.) and so I have resorted to using a cheap PCI sound card that does the trick.
If I can get decent sound from built-in sound on the motherboard, and if it will keep the heat and noise levels down, then I have no problem with that.
When I bought my last system in '95 I went with close to bleeding edge (P166). I wanted the system to be current for a few years.
Five years ago I maxed out the CPU by swapping to a P233 and upp'ed my memory last year from 64M to 256M.
I'd like to do the same this time, buy close to the bleeding edge.
I hope I've given you enough info now. If you need any more fire away!
Thanks again!
Ric
As you guessed my system demands are quite modest.Engine wrote:Let's start there, then: which programs do you use to make music? If you're just doing pure wave recording of live instruments, for instance, and then editing them, you'll need performance in different areas than if you're doing softsynths [hard disk versus processor]. If you're doing simple MIDI sequencing, you're not going to need the same kind of power you'd need if you're using the latest version of Reason.
I do mainly pure wave recording of my guitar, making use of midi and wave backing tracks.
I use Acid Pro 4.0 mainly. I have Sonar 1.3, but even that pushes my system to the limit, and is basically unusable.
I will most likely stick with a very modest sound card.Engine wrote: Also, what sort of sound card are you planning on using? Are you going to use a breakout rackmount box like the Layla, or are you planning to use a more standard soundcard, such as the SoundBlaster?
Although I have what was once a state-of the-art card, the AMIII, it's difficult to use in my system (driver problems etc.) and so I have resorted to using a cheap PCI sound card that does the trick.
If I can get decent sound from built-in sound on the motherboard, and if it will keep the heat and noise levels down, then I have no problem with that.
I see what you mean.Engine wrote: My point: boot time isn't the be-all and end-all of PC speed.?
I actually have a pretty decent budget at the moment, so US$1,500 is not out of the question. If it would buy silence, I'd go for it.Engine wrote:
Last question, before I throw out my recommendations: what kind of budget are you working on? US$1,000 will get you a very different machine than US$500, for instance. [US$1,500 will get you a top-end PC well beyond your likely needs, in total silence. So if that's your budget, we'll have no problems.
When I bought my last system in '95 I went with close to bleeding edge (P166). I wanted the system to be current for a few years.
Five years ago I maxed out the CPU by swapping to a P233 and upp'ed my memory last year from 64M to 256M.
I'd like to do the same this time, buy close to the bleeding edge.
I hope I've given you enough info now. If you need any more fire away!
Thanks again!
Ric
What I'd appreciate are recommendations for:
- Case
- PSU
- MB
- All fans
- DVD recorder
Well if you want bleeding edge it would be a Conroe system or if you wanted AMD it would be:I'd like to do the same this time, buy close to the bleeding edge.
CPU: AMD X2 3800+
Case: Antec P180
PSU: Seasonic S12-430
M/B: ?? Any socket 939 motherboard that allows undervolting and software fan control (ie Asus Qfan)
Fans: Nexus/Yate Loon/Globalwin (whichever is cheapest)
DVD: Gigabyte GO-W1616A (review)
You can make a cheap, silent Sempron-based system for less than $200, ie:
CPU: Sempron 3400+
Case: Antec SLK3000B
PSU: S12-330
M/B: any socket 754 board that allows undervolting (ie Foxconn 760GXK8MC)
Fans: see above
DVD: see above
Really bleeding edge would be a Core Duo or Conroe system.
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- Location: Guelph, Canada
Thanks Jag I'll be noting down all of your suggestions carefully.
I'm usually inclined to stay away from the absolute bleeding edge for a couple of reasons.
Firstly, you always pay a sizable premium for getting the very latest.
Secondly, it usually hasn't had enough market time to get all the bugs out.
But, I'm still open to the idea if it's highly recommended.
Time for a story from last year.
I walked into a local computer store. It was brand spanking new. The owner was a kid, not more than 22 or 23. I told him I was in the market for a new system, but it had to be absolutely quiet.
He thought about it and then tried to push an Intel BTX system on me.
It had been out less than a year but he insisted it would be the next great standard. Well a year has passed since then and I don't really see it at as such do you?
I did say 'close' to bleeding edge.jaganath wrote: Really bleeding edge would be a Core Duo or Conroe system.
I'm usually inclined to stay away from the absolute bleeding edge for a couple of reasons.
Firstly, you always pay a sizable premium for getting the very latest.
Secondly, it usually hasn't had enough market time to get all the bugs out.
But, I'm still open to the idea if it's highly recommended.
Time for a story from last year.
I walked into a local computer store. It was brand spanking new. The owner was a kid, not more than 22 or 23. I told him I was in the market for a new system, but it had to be absolutely quiet.
He thought about it and then tried to push an Intel BTX system on me.
It had been out less than a year but he insisted it would be the next great standard. Well a year has passed since then and I don't really see it at as such do you?
BTX was a form factor that Intel tried to push on the market when they were still persevering with the Netburst micro-architecture and all the attendant heat problems. It turns out the next generation of CPU's will be cooler than previous ones, so the need for BTX has totally disappeared.He thought about it and then tried to push an Intel BTX system on me.
It had been out less than a year but he insisted it would be the next great standard. Well a year has passed since then and I don't really see it at as such do you?
I absolutely agree. IMO in the context of your requirements I think you could have a cheap silent rig by going down the socket 754 route; most people say that it's an obsolete socket, but then so is 939 depending how you define "obsolete". An undervolted Sempron with a Ninja could even run fanless.I'm usually inclined to stay away from the absolute bleeding edge for a couple of reasons.
Firstly, you always pay a sizable premium for getting the very latest.
Secondly, it usually hasn't had enough market time to get all the bugs out.
I think almost any CPU with a ninja will run semi-fanless in a P180. Mine's a A64 3200+ Venice, and it runs fanless (except for the outtake fans nearby). Here, you can see that even a 3.6 GHz Prescott can be cooled in a semi-fanless way using the ninja in a P180.An undervolted Sempron with a Ninja could even run fanless.
Btw, I don't think that a X2 3800+ is top notch right at the moment. If you wait until July 23, you are predicted to get it right away from 150~180€ (don't know how much it will be in $, sorry for that). I think it's a fair price, and for your application range, dual core seems just fine.
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Re: Open to advice/suggestions
Well, you could get away with almost anything modern, then. That's helpful.NoiseFreeGuy wrote:As you guessed my system demands are quite modest.Engine wrote:Let's start there, then: which programs do you use to make music? If you're just doing pure wave recording of live instruments, for instance, and then editing them, you'll need performance in different areas than if you're doing softsynths [hard disk versus processor]. If you're doing simple MIDI sequencing, you're not going to need the same kind of power you'd need if you're using the latest version of Reason.
I do mainly pure wave recording of my guitar, making use of midi and wave backing tracks.
I use Acid Pro 4.0 mainly. I have Sonar 1.3, but even that pushes my system to the limit, and is basically unusable.
Well, most boards have some sort of built-in solution, and many aren't too bad. And you can always drop in a SoundBlaster for cheap, or an Echo Audio breakout box or whatever, further down the line if the built-in solution is too noisy for you [and I warn the s/n ratio on most built-in solutions isn't great, nor is the dynamic range].NoiseFreeGuy wrote:If I can get decent sound from built-in sound on the motherboard, and if it will keep the heat and noise levels down, then I have no problem with that.
Well, simple, then:NoiseFreeGuy wrote:I actually have a pretty decent budget at the moment, so US$1,500 is not out of the question. If it would buy silence, I'd go for it.Engine wrote:Last question, before I throw out my recommendations: what kind of budget are you working on? US$1,000 will get you a very different machine than US$500, for instance. [US$1,500 will get you a top-end PC well beyond your likely needs, in total silence. So if that's your budget, we'll have no problems.
Antec P180 [latest rev, preferably]
ASUS A8N-SLI Premium*
Antec Phantom 500**
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Manchester***
CORSAIR XMS 2GB [or whatever you choose]
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000KS****
Scythe SCNJ-1000P
You also need a video card. If you'll never play a game, I recommend getting a nice fanless 7300GT like the XFX PVT73EUDJ3, but really, you could get away with nearly any card. Just get one that doesn't get hot, and doesn't have a fan, and you should be set. If you do play games, well, we can help you find a fanless higher-performance card.
Then you need, say, three Nexus 120mm fans. [Some people will recommend only two; they probably have more experience and daring than I do.] Mount one in the power supply chamber. Mount another in the rear vent of the P180, blowing out, and the last one on the Ninja, blowing toward the exhaust fan. It's this last one many people don't use, and some would invert the rear fan, as well. All these things are possible, depending on your exact system setup.
Now, by my reckoning, even including the peripherals - DVD, keyboard, and so on - of your choice, this would be a near-silent system capable of performing all the tasks you require, for under US$1500. In fact, it's massively overkill, but that's a bit of a delight, too.
Again, the caveat: there are many ways to build a silent system at this level, for this kind of money. This is just one. Others will be cheaper, others will be quieter, others will be faster. This happens to be my recommendation, because it's [more or less] the system I'm building myself, for the exact same purpose you're using yours for.
*You technically don't need the SLI version, but it's my board of choice, and silent as well. Decent built-in audio, also.
**Other people can give you all sorts of suggestions for power supplies for a system like this. There are a lot of options out there, and many people own a system more-or-less identical to the one I'm suggesting. They'll have great advice.
***Your processor choices are wide-open. This happens to be one whose price/performance I like, but other processors are great choices. And listen to people who recommend systems using the Sempron, as well. This just happens to be my recommendation.
****One thing you need is a serious, and seriously quiet, hard disk. Open mics near hard disks pick up every piece of seek noise, and it's really irritating when you go back through and listen to your fantastic recording only to realize it's got a hard disk backbeat that doesn't sync. Trust me. You also need decent space, since uncompressed audio uses up space quickly, if you record a lot.
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I don’t think you mentioned whether the size of the system case is an issue for you! If it is, then check the dimensions of the P180, as it comes highly recommend by many including myself, but it is big.
Since you aren’t on a tiny budget, I would suggest that an AM2 or C2D system is preferable, due to having a deeper upgrade path.
I know what you mean about old computers not seeming slow when you are doing simple things. But, I would have thought your current system would struggle regularly when accessing many websites that use flash and the like!
Please remember to post a comment on how you get on with your new system. I built a dual P3 450 NT Workstation system for a client who previously had a Pentium 233 with Windows 98 and it was great to see how blown away he was by it.
Since you aren’t on a tiny budget, I would suggest that an AM2 or C2D system is preferable, due to having a deeper upgrade path.
I know what you mean about old computers not seeming slow when you are doing simple things. But, I would have thought your current system would struggle regularly when accessing many websites that use flash and the like!
Please remember to post a comment on how you get on with your new system. I built a dual P3 450 NT Workstation system for a client who previously had a Pentium 233 with Windows 98 and it was great to see how blown away he was by it.
Re: Open to advice/suggestions
While I acknowledge that the onboard solutions might be fine, I'd like to mention that it is very unlikely that a sound card would add any measurable amount of heat to a system.NoiseFreeGuy wrote:If I can get decent sound from built-in sound on the motherboard, and if it will keep the heat and noise levels down, then I have no problem with that.
My Chaintech AV-710 (Envy 24HT-S based, though I think it's more of a listening card than a recording card) has no heatsink at all on the chip, and I would be very suprised if it put out more than 5 watts in total. I keep it in the last slot right by the case floor and never had any heat-induced problems. I think this is pretty much the standard for sound cards.
I think this had more to do with his position as a salesman than his age. I'm a kid too, younger than him, but I know not to recommend BTX for absolute silence. (Though the BTX Dells are in fact fairly quiet.)NoiseFreeGuy wrote:Time for a story from last year.
I walked into a local computer store. It was brand spanking new. The owner was a kid, not more than 22 or 23. I told him I was in the market for a new system, but it had to be absolutely quiet.
He thought about it and then tried to push an Intel BTX system on me.
It had been out less than a year but he insisted it would be the next great standard. Well a year has passed since then and I don't really see it at as such do you?
Real big. In that case, go for a P150 or something its size. I'd actually recommend the P150 for you, because it'd be very easy to soft-mount your drive[s], which is helpful in a recording situation.smilingcrow wrote:I don’t think you mentioned whether the size of the system case is an issue for you! If it is, then check the dimensions of the P180, as it comes highly recommend by many including myself, but it is big.
This is actually what I dropped by today to mention: you could pretty logically justify getting a low-power AM2 processor instead of the socket 939 I recommended; some of these are - someone correct me if I'm wrong - 35W processors, which means passively cooling with a Ninja just got a lot easier. If it takes me long enough to build my system - and it probably will - this is precisely what I'll do.smilingcrow wrote:Since you aren’t on a tiny budget, I would suggest that an AM2 or C2D system is preferable, due to having a deeper upgrade path.
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Well I'm back, two weeks the smarter for it!
I didn't know the first thing from an AMD chip to an Intel one, but I believe I've got the basics down now.
Although I'll comment on the case in another reply.
It probably would be quieter due to the cooler requirements of the parts, but there's got to be a big performance difference between a Sempron 3400 and an Athlon x2 3800 (or perhaps I'm wrong?).
As I mentioned I'd like close to the bleeding edge. I have deep pockets at the moment.
I didn't know the first thing from an AMD chip to an Intel one, but I believe I've got the basics down now.
This configuration is looking pretty good to me at the moment.Well if you want bleeding edge it would be a Conroe system or if you wanted AMD it would be:
CPU: AMD X2 3800+
Case: Antec P180
PSU: Seasonic S12-430
M/B: ?? Any socket 939 motherboard that allows undervolting and software fan control (ie Asus Qfan)
Fans: Nexus/Yate Loon/Globalwin (whichever is cheapest)
DVD: Gigabyte GO-W1616A
Although I'll comment on the case in another reply.
The above system doesn't make as much sense to me really.You can make a cheap, silent Sempron-based system for less than $200, ie:
CPU: Sempron 3400+
Case: Antec SLK3000B
PSU: S12-330
M/B: any socket 754 board that allows undervolting (ie Foxconn 760GXK8MC)
Fans: see above
DVD: see above
It probably would be quieter due to the cooler requirements of the parts, but there's got to be a big performance difference between a Sempron 3400 and an Athlon x2 3800 (or perhaps I'm wrong?).
As I mentioned I'd like close to the bleeding edge. I have deep pockets at the moment.
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Re: Open to advice/suggestions
Thanks for getting back Engine! I know you are talking from a musician's perspective so I appreciate your reply.
[quote="Engine"] Well, most boards have some sort of built-in solution, and many aren't too bad. And you can always drop in a SoundBlaster for cheap, or an Echo Audio breakout box or whatever, further down the line if the built-in solution is too noisy for you [and I warn the s/n ratio on most built-in solutions isn't great, nor is the dynamic range].[/quote="Engine"]
Yeah I guess I can start out and see if I can live with the built-in sound. If not, I'll just pop in a sound card (if my system has enough spare slots).
I may use a PCI for an ISA/PCI scanner conversion card.
[quote="Engine"]
Well, simple, then:
Antec P180 [latest rev, preferably]
ASUS A8N-SLI Premium*
Antec Phantom 500**
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Manchester***
CORSAIR XMS 2GB [or whatever you choose]
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000KS****
Scythe SCNJ-1000P[/quote="Engine"]
Everything there looks OK except for the P180 and the WD5000.
I had a bad experience many years ago with a large-sized case.
I bought it to leave room for possible add-ons in the bays.
I turned the system on and in just a few minutes knew that the case would have to be returned. Maybe it was because it was empty (who knows) but there was a nasty hum that developed just with the case reverberating. I changed it for a mid-size case and that reverberation went away immediately.
I can live with a *gentle* wooshing fan, but there is one component I know that will be the most difficult to tame with me; the hard drive.
I tried a few 7200 rpm drives several years ago and could not cope with the high pitched whine they were making. I'm not a kid, but I'm 'cursed' with a kid's hearing!
I predict that I'll have troubles with any 7200 rpm drive, and possibly even 5400. I have an 80G 4200 rpm notebook drive that's waiting to be used somewhere.
>> You also need a video card. If you'll never play a game, I recommend getting a nice fanless 7300GT like the XFX PVT73EUDJ3, but really, you could get away with nearly any card. Just get one that doesn't get hot, <<
Sounds good to me.
>> Then you need, say, three Nexus 120mm fans...
OK.
>> Now, by my reckoning, even including the peripherals - DVD, keyboard, and so on - of your choice, this would be a near-silent system capable of performing all the tasks you require, for under US$1500. In fact, it's massively overkill, but that's a bit of a delight, too. <<
That's fine with me. I think I deserve some overkill after waiting all these years!
The only thing I'm worried about is firing up a WinXP pre-install and discovering that some of my favourite apps won't run under it!
Then I'll be left scrambling.
>>Again, the caveat: there are many ways to build a silent system at this level, for this kind of money. This is just one. Others will be cheaper, others will be quieter, others will be faster. <<
I realize this, but I value your opinion and am taking very careful notes.
****One thing you need is a serious, and seriously quiet, hard disk. Open mics near hard disks pick up every piece of seek noise, and it's really irritating when you go back through and listen to your fantastic recording only to realize it's got a hard disk backbeat that doesn't sync. Trust me. You also need decent space, since uncompressed audio uses up space quickly, if you record a lot.
Yeah I know! See my comments above.
Do you think I can get by with my modest recording requirements with a 4200 rpm notebook drive? I'm using a 5400 30G Maxtor right now and it's fast enough for what I need. I don't know if I'd notice a hit with a 4200 drive.
Thanks!
[quote="Engine"] Well, most boards have some sort of built-in solution, and many aren't too bad. And you can always drop in a SoundBlaster for cheap, or an Echo Audio breakout box or whatever, further down the line if the built-in solution is too noisy for you [and I warn the s/n ratio on most built-in solutions isn't great, nor is the dynamic range].[/quote="Engine"]
Yeah I guess I can start out and see if I can live with the built-in sound. If not, I'll just pop in a sound card (if my system has enough spare slots).
I may use a PCI for an ISA/PCI scanner conversion card.
[quote="Engine"]
Well, simple, then:
Antec P180 [latest rev, preferably]
ASUS A8N-SLI Premium*
Antec Phantom 500**
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Manchester***
CORSAIR XMS 2GB [or whatever you choose]
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000KS****
Scythe SCNJ-1000P[/quote="Engine"]
Everything there looks OK except for the P180 and the WD5000.
I had a bad experience many years ago with a large-sized case.
I bought it to leave room for possible add-ons in the bays.
I turned the system on and in just a few minutes knew that the case would have to be returned. Maybe it was because it was empty (who knows) but there was a nasty hum that developed just with the case reverberating. I changed it for a mid-size case and that reverberation went away immediately.
I can live with a *gentle* wooshing fan, but there is one component I know that will be the most difficult to tame with me; the hard drive.
I tried a few 7200 rpm drives several years ago and could not cope with the high pitched whine they were making. I'm not a kid, but I'm 'cursed' with a kid's hearing!
I predict that I'll have troubles with any 7200 rpm drive, and possibly even 5400. I have an 80G 4200 rpm notebook drive that's waiting to be used somewhere.
>> You also need a video card. If you'll never play a game, I recommend getting a nice fanless 7300GT like the XFX PVT73EUDJ3, but really, you could get away with nearly any card. Just get one that doesn't get hot, <<
Sounds good to me.
>> Then you need, say, three Nexus 120mm fans...
OK.
>> Now, by my reckoning, even including the peripherals - DVD, keyboard, and so on - of your choice, this would be a near-silent system capable of performing all the tasks you require, for under US$1500. In fact, it's massively overkill, but that's a bit of a delight, too. <<
That's fine with me. I think I deserve some overkill after waiting all these years!
The only thing I'm worried about is firing up a WinXP pre-install and discovering that some of my favourite apps won't run under it!
Then I'll be left scrambling.
>>Again, the caveat: there are many ways to build a silent system at this level, for this kind of money. This is just one. Others will be cheaper, others will be quieter, others will be faster. <<
I realize this, but I value your opinion and am taking very careful notes.
****One thing you need is a serious, and seriously quiet, hard disk. Open mics near hard disks pick up every piece of seek noise, and it's really irritating when you go back through and listen to your fantastic recording only to realize it's got a hard disk backbeat that doesn't sync. Trust me. You also need decent space, since uncompressed audio uses up space quickly, if you record a lot.
Yeah I know! See my comments above.
Do you think I can get by with my modest recording requirements with a 4200 rpm notebook drive? I'm using a 5400 30G Maxtor right now and it's fast enough for what I need. I don't know if I'd notice a hit with a 4200 drive.
Thanks!
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[quote="smilingcrow"]I don’t think you mentioned whether the size of the system case is an issue for you! If it is, then check the dimensions of the P180, as it comes highly recommend by many including myself, but it is big.[/quote="smilingcrow"]
As you will read in one of my replies, I had a bad experience with a large-sized case once. One bitten, twice shy.
>>Since you aren’t on a tiny budget, I would suggest that an AM2 or C2D system is preferable, due to having a deeper upgrade path. <<
Yes, I'm leaning towards an AM2 at the moment.
>>I know what you mean about old computers not seeming slow when you are doing simple things. But, I would have thought your current system would struggle regularly when accessing many websites that use flash and the like! <<
Yes it's true, there is definitely a struggle with flash, Youtube.com etc.
>> Please remember to post a comment on how you get on with your new system. I built a dual P3 450 NT Workstation system for a client who previously had a Pentium 233 with Windows 98 and it was great to see how blown away he was by it. <<
I will definitely give an update but I still have to decide between whether
1. I should build
2. Someone else should build to my specs
3. I buy a pre-built
I know the pluses and minuses of each. It's a tough call.
As you will read in one of my replies, I had a bad experience with a large-sized case once. One bitten, twice shy.
>>Since you aren’t on a tiny budget, I would suggest that an AM2 or C2D system is preferable, due to having a deeper upgrade path. <<
Yes, I'm leaning towards an AM2 at the moment.
>>I know what you mean about old computers not seeming slow when you are doing simple things. But, I would have thought your current system would struggle regularly when accessing many websites that use flash and the like! <<
Yes it's true, there is definitely a struggle with flash, Youtube.com etc.
>> Please remember to post a comment on how you get on with your new system. I built a dual P3 450 NT Workstation system for a client who previously had a Pentium 233 with Windows 98 and it was great to see how blown away he was by it. <<
I will definitely give an update but I still have to decide between whether
1. I should build
2. Someone else should build to my specs
3. I buy a pre-built
I know the pluses and minuses of each. It's a tough call.
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- Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 7:16 pm
- Location: Guelph, Canada
Re: Open to advice/suggestions
>> My Chaintech AV-710 (Envy 24HT-S based, though I think it's more of a listening card than a recording card) has no heatsink at all on the chip, and I would be very suprised if it put out more than 5 watts in total. I keep it in the last slot right by the case floor and never had any heat-induced problems. I think this is pretty much the standard for sound cards.<<
Thanks I will make a note of this sound card. What do you suggest I do with my Digidesign AMIII card? I could never get it to work properly with Win drivers in Win 98.
>> I think this had more to do with his position as a salesman than his age. I'm a kid too, younger than him, but I know not to recommend BTX for absolute silence. (Though the BTX Dells are in fact fairly quiet.)<<
Yeah of course you're right. More a salesman issue.
Thanks I will make a note of this sound card. What do you suggest I do with my Digidesign AMIII card? I could never get it to work properly with Win drivers in Win 98.
>> I think this had more to do with his position as a salesman than his age. I'm a kid too, younger than him, but I know not to recommend BTX for absolute silence. (Though the BTX Dells are in fact fairly quiet.)<<
Yeah of course you're right. More a salesman issue.
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>> This is actually what I dropped by today to mention: you could pretty logically justify getting a low-power AM2 processor instead of the socket 939 I recommended; some of these are - someone correct me if I'm wrong - 35W processors, which means passively cooling with a Ninja just got a lot easier. If it takes me long enough to build my system - and it probably will - this is precisely what I'll do. <<smilingcrow wrote:Since you aren’t on a tiny budget, I would suggest that an AM2 or C2D system is preferable, due to having a deeper upgrade path.
I don't think I saw you mention socket 939 in your posts Engine.
I'm leaning towards an AM2 processor.
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I wouldn’t let one bad experience with a large case put you off the P180 or other suitable large cases; it’s an excellent case.
If your audio recording needs are modest, then a 4,200 rpm laptop drive will be fine. It’s really the general performance of your system that will suffer with a slow drive like that.
It’s perfectly possible to build a system with 2 and very likely more 7,200 rpm 3.5â€
If your audio recording needs are modest, then a 4,200 rpm laptop drive will be fine. It’s really the general performance of your system that will suffer with a slow drive like that.
It’s perfectly possible to build a system with 2 and very likely more 7,200 rpm 3.5â€
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I'd first like to say all you guys here are really great with your advice and help. I really appreciate it.
OK I will look into the larger case then. Is this case being recommended because it will allow for future expansion or because of insulation, power supply or another reason?smilingcrow wrote: I wouldn’t let one bad experience with a large case put you off the P180 or other suitable large cases; it’s an excellent case.
OK, this is good to know.smilingcrow wrote: If your audio recording needs are modest, then a 4,200 rpm laptop drive will be fine. It’s really the general performance of your system that will suffer with a slow drive like that.
Alright. I'm going to give the new 7200's another try and see if I can live with them now. I sure would appreciate the extra speed.smilingcrow wrote: The only time I would recommend using a laptop drive is if you want to have a system sitting on your desk. Having a system sitting on the floor under a desk is enough to make the difference between being quiet and virtually silent.
OK great, I've got this one noted down. Thanks again!smilingcrow wrote: I can recommend an EMU 0404 soundcard as a good quality entry level PCI card at a low price; it’s aimed at musicians so lacks Dolby 5.1.
I'd recommend heading over to the head-fi.org forums (specifically the Computer-as-Source subforum) and chatting those guys up regarding your sound card needs. (while the AV-710 and the EMU404 are both highly recommended source cards, they may or may not meet your recording needs)
A larger case will be easier to work inside of. Also, a larger case should give you more cable routing options, allowing you better control over your airflow.
Don't underestimate the effect of cable routing on airflow. Check out some of the rigs in the General Gallery. There are some seriously talented system builders/modders here.
A larger case will be easier to work inside of. Also, a larger case should give you more cable routing options, allowing you better control over your airflow.
Don't underestimate the effect of cable routing on airflow. Check out some of the rigs in the General Gallery. There are some seriously talented system builders/modders here.
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Why not read the reviews (there are 3 I think!) of the case on this site and if you have any questions then post them here.NoiseFreeGuy wrote:I'd first like to say all you guys here are really great with your advice and help.OK I will look into the larger case then. Is this case being recommended because it will allow for future expansion or because of insulation, power supply or another reason?smilingcrow wrote: I wouldn’t let one bad experience with a large case put you off the P180 or other suitable large cases; it’s an excellent case.
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Re: Open to advice/suggestions
It seems the more you know the more complicated this becomes!Engine wrote: Well, simple, then:
Antec P180 [latest rev, preferably]
ASUS A8N-SLI Premium*
Antec Phantom 500**
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Manchester***
CORSAIR XMS 2GB [or whatever you choose]
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000KS****
Scythe SCNJ-1000P
I've recently learned that the ASUS A8N-SLI uses DDR-400 memory and socket 939 processors.
ASUS M2V on the other hand uses DDR-2 800 memory and AM2 socket processors. Like the A8N it also has built-in audio but it's much cheaper!
To my limited experience with these things, the M2V seems like a better choice.
Also that Antec Phantom 500 is adding a couple hundred bucks to the equation.
Re: Open to advice/suggestions
The M2V is based on a VIA chipset, which is inferior to the Nforce from Nvidia, according to many reviews on the net.NoiseFreeGuy wrote:It seems the more you know the more complicated this becomes!Engine wrote: Well, simple, then:
Antec P180 [latest rev, preferably]
ASUS A8N-SLI Premium*
Antec Phantom 500**
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Manchester***
CORSAIR XMS 2GB [or whatever you choose]
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000KS****
Scythe SCNJ-1000P
I've recently learned that the ASUS A8N-SLI uses DDR-400 memory and socket 939 processors.
ASUS M2V on the other hand uses DDR-2 800 memory and AM2 socket processors. Like the A8N it also has built-in audio but it's much cheaper!
To my limited experience with these things, the M2V seems like a better choice.
Also that Antec Phantom 500 is adding a couple hundred bucks to the equation.
If you want the A8N-SLI for socket AM2 you should be looking at the M2N-SLI Deluxe.
EDIT: Just read your requirements again, no games played, I would go for the M2N-E, should do you nicely, and it's cheaper than the SLI version.
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Re: Open to advice/suggestions
Personally, I wouldn’t like to use the Phantom 500 in a P180 because it’s a particularly long power supply and the space in the lower compartment gets a bit cramped with cables and the fan. It’s not a ‘real’ problem; I mention it because you aren’t keen on the price. I have a Silverstone fanless power supply in a P180 and I’m happy with it; it’s about two thirds the cost of the Phantom.NoiseFreeGuy wrote:Also that Antec Phantom 500 is adding a couple hundred bucks to the equation.
If you’re not looking to aggressively over-clock your system, play games or trying to squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, then going for a low to mid price motherboard is fine. I would choose a name brand and get one that has all the features that you require. Look out for passive cooling, a decent number of fan headers and its nice if two or more of the fan headers can have their speed controlled by software. I often end up buying Asus boards that support QFan 2, as in my experience they do allow 2 fan speeds to be controlled. There are plenty of other boards that also allow this, but it can be hit and miss finding which do.
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Re: Open to advice/suggestions
Thanks very much Anvar, this does indeed sound like a much better fit.Anvar wrote: The M2V is based on a VIA chipset, which is inferior to the Nforce from Nvidia, according to many reviews on the net.
EDIT: Just read your requirements again, no games played, I would go for the M2N-E, should do you nicely, and it's cheaper than the SLI version.
And thanks for the other link you sent too. Much appreciated.
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Re: Open to advice/suggestions
Thanks SC, I will definitely check out this fan. I'm a fan of anything fanless.smilingcrow wrote: I have a Silverstone fanless power supply in a P180 and I’m happy with it; it’s about two thirds the cost of the Phantom.
>> If you’re not looking to aggressively over-clock your system, play games or trying to squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, then going for a low to mid price motherboard is fine. I would choose a name brand and get one that has all the features that you require. Look out for passive cooling, a decent number of fan headers and its nice if two or more of the fan headers can have their speed controlled by software... <<
Thanks for these tips! They're exactly the sort of thing I need right now.
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