Hard up student needs value graphics workhorse.

pixel_pimp · Post by **pixel_pimp** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:51 pm

With my current system showing the idiosyncracies of age, and a new college year just underway, I feel it's time to replace the beige beast that has been my noisy companion for some years.

The new machine will be used mostly for DTP / Graphics & Web work so a solid display is needed but super 3d performance is not an issue. As I'll be spending long hours in front of this machine - often late into the night - I need something that's going to be pretty quiet.

My planned system is as follows:

Antec SOLO case - seems a popular model round these parts.

Xilence 420W PSU - as I already have it.

Asus M2V mobo (AM2) - For no real reason other than it's cheap and Asus is a brand I trust. It has all the connections I could want and I see no obvious design flaws.

Sempron 3200 - I note from another thread that the AM2 version of this has C&Q so it seems worth the extra Â£12 over the 3000 model.

Scythe Katana cooler

Corsair 512MB non ECC CL5 DDR-II (VS512MB667D2) 667Mhz - I'll double it further down the line.

200MB Maxtor Diamondmax 10 SATA HD (I already have and desperately regret buying - three installations have now turned sour on this drive. If I can get a refund I'll replace it with a spinpoint)

Club 3D Radeon X300 SE 128MB PCI-E

Any thoughts or suggestions on where I could improve would be gladly received.

Also - I'd appreciate the opinion of anyone who has dealt with Pyramid in the UK before.

Thanks!

qviri · Post by **qviri** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:21 pm

Looks good for your needs and requirements.

Are you sure that the Katana is compatible with AM2?

smilingcrow · Post by **smilingcrow** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:24 pm

pixel_pimp wrote:Sempron 3200 - I note from another thread that the AM2 version of this has C&Q so it seems worth the extra Â£12 over the 3000 model.

Scythe Katana cooler

Corsair 512MB non ECC CL5 DDR-II (VS512MB667D2) 667Mhz - I'll double it further down the line.!

If itâ€™s true that the 3200 supports CnQ and the 3000 doesnâ€™t then go for the 3200.
I found that the Katana could easily cool an Athlon 64 3000+ quietly when I reduced the fan speed with Speedfan.
Go for 1GB straight away for graphics work as 512MB is not good.

stromgald · Post by **stromgald** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:49 pm

Smilingcrow is right. For graphics work, 1 GB is best. If you're doing any photoshopping, or really complicated graphics, get 2GB.

Also about your motherboard, I did notice the bare southbridge. I've had some problems with motherboards like that. They tend to overheat while gaming. If you get crashes during prolonged periods of load you might want to stick a cheap, small heatsink on with thermal tape.

Something like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835118002
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835118214

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:00 pm

I'd recommend a 7600gs instead of an x300se, at least 1gb preferably 2gb of ram, and an X2, which is only a few bucks more than either.

qviri · Post by **qviri** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:15 pm

Ryan wrote:I'd recommend a 7600gs instead of an x300se, at least 1gb preferably 2gb of ram, and an X2, which is only a few bucks more than either.

Dunno about prices in the UK, but here in Canada (*prices taken from NCIX for comparison purposes), the Sempron 3200+ is $89.25 while the X2 3800+ is $194.94. An extra gigabyte of DDR2 would set you back $80 at least, and while the X300 can be found for less than $60, the cheapest 7600gs is $140.

I think $260 could be a significant amount of money for a student.

pixel_pimp · Post by **pixel_pimp** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:54 pm

I do need to keep costs down but then again, I don't want to totally cripple my shiny new machine so I suppose I can just about stump up for 1GB and perhaps add a second down the line when cash is available.

@qviri

Good point - I checked the Quietpc site and the Katana is not listed as compatable with AM2. The Infinity and Noctua are both there though along with the Zalman CNPS9500-AM2.

Thanks for the thoughts folks

pixel_pimp · Post by **pixel_pimp** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:08 am

OK, one more thing!

Just want someone to confirm my logic is straight on the HS issue - I'm now planning to get the 120mm Noctua on the following basis:

* Although my CPU probably doesn't need such a large HS, it allows for CPU upgrades in the future.

* A 120mm fan should be quieter than a 92mm one.

Can anyone suggest whether it might be possible to go fanless with the larger HS? It's not an essential but if it's possible, I'd be a bonus. Also, is the AM2 mounting system pretty robust? 700g plus fan (if needed) seems like a lot of weight but then I'm still used to socket A which has always caused me missed heartbeats when applying the HSF!

Thanks again

HammerSandwich · Post by **HammerSandwich** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:45 pm

I also vote for 1GB or more, but I'd get a 6150-based mobo that includes integrated video with DVI. This should keep initial system price in check and provide both acceptable graphics now as well as a PCIe upgrade path.

pixel_pimp · Post by **pixel_pimp** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:14 am

OK, this is interesting - looks like I can save some money there. The ASUS M2NPV-MX has onboard GFX and, handily places the power connector at the front of the board where it's more or less out of the picture airflow-wise. The lack of a GFX card probably helps there too, I imagine.

I note from ebuyer customer reviews that it doesn't get along too well with budget RAM so I may have to spend a little more there.

New shopping list then:

M2NPV-MX at GBP 48.76

Crucial CT12864AA53E 1GB Unbuffered PC2-4200 (As recommended on the crucial site for this board) GBP 65.75

Sempron 3200 AM2 128kb CacheGBP 44.27

Antec SOLO Case GBP 49.32

On the cooler side, I'm still not certain - all the available AM2 coolers seem pretty expensive to me.

smilingcrow · Post by **smilingcrow** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:30 am

pixel_pimp wrote:Crucial CT12864AA53E 1GB Unbuffered PC2-4200 (As recommended on the crucial site for this board) GBP 65.75.

You really want to run this with dual channel memory at the fastest speed for you budget. So 2* 512MB PC2-5300 seems the best bet. Otherwise, you will cripple the memory bandwidth of your system.
It should cost roughly the same price also, maybe two or three pounds more.

pixel_pimp wrote:On the cooler side, I'm still not certain - all the available AM2 coolers seem pretty expensive to me.

The stock AMD cooler should easily cool a Sempron 3200 very close to silently when you lower its fan speed; undervolting the CPU obviously helps here also. This is from experience with an Athlon 64 3000 S939. Hopefully, AMD are still using the same heatsink/fan with the AM2 chips. I would save some money and give this a go, unless you intend to over-clock heavily in which case Iâ€™m not sure how well it would work.

pixel_pimp · Post by **pixel_pimp** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:07 am

OK - I've swapped for a matched pair rather than a single stick. I also found Kingston to be a little cheaper than crucial on this front too.

I may be getting a little web monkey work in the near future so perhaps I'll be able to fork out for a Noctua after all. I'll probably match it with an acousti C-Series fan or possibly a slower dustproof model. Nobody seems to have nexus fans in the UK just now.

Thanks again for all your guidance!

smilingcrow · Post by **smilingcrow** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:07 am

pixel_pimp wrote:Nobody seems to have nexus fans in the UK just now.

Try using Froogle as they usually list a few companies that stock them. I bought most of mine from eBay as they were quite a bit cheaper. You donâ€™t see them very often though.

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:40 am

Also on Ebay is Silencio who sells Yate Loons which are basically Nexus fans with a higher top speed.

pixel_pimp · Post by **pixel_pimp** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:18 am

Ah right enough - I remember someone posting that elsewhere. Thanks for the reminder!

Now just looking forward to the build!

pixel_pimp · Post by **pixel_pimp** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:14 pm

OK this may be a monumentally dumb question but....

Will I need to obtain a '64 edition' version of Windows to run here or will my trusty Win2k be OK?

smilingcrow · Post by **smilingcrow** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:37 pm

pixel_pimp wrote:Will I need to obtain a '64 edition' version of Windows to run here or will my trusty Win2k be OK?

Only a small percentage of applications or hardware will support XP only and not also 2K. There are quite a few in the area of Video Editing that are XP only though.
The only safe bet is to do the research and see what each application supports.

pixel_pimp · Post by **pixel_pimp** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:47 pm

Yeah, I won't be using any new applications that I'm not already using on 2k - just wondered about windows compatability with the Sempron 64.

Sounds like I'm alright on that front.

pixel_pimp · Post by **pixel_pimp** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:52 am

Delivery van just arrived - All parts present and correct.

Wish me luck - I'm going in!

qviri · Post by **qviri** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:55 am

pixel_pimp wrote:Yeah, I won't be using any new applications that I'm not already using on 2k - just wondered about windows compatability with the Sempron 64.

Sounds like I'm alright on that front.

AMD64 is perfectly backwards compatible with 32-bit.

pixel_pimp · Post by **pixel_pimp** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:03 am

Thanks

Have just assembled the thing only to find my drive partitions keep disappearing without obvious reason...

pixel_pimp · Post by **pixel_pimp** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:25 am

OK - partitions back now thanks to Partition Table Doctor. That was a VERY nasty moment. Lets hope I don't end up there again.

Right, experience from the build, then:

* It was a revelation working with a properly designed case - everything fits where it should and the assembly was a piece of cake. Perhaps a removable motherboard tray would help but, using an mATX board, it wasn't exactly cramped for space.

* The Noctua, despite me thinking otherwise, turned out to point upwards into the PSU fan. Really thought I had that figured out! I'm using a 92mm Acousti C-series for now which is doing the trick rather well but I'll probably get a Nexus at some point down the line.

* As per the SPCR review, the Noctua mounting kit-bag is a perplexing thing. Perhaps some kind of colour coding of parts would help?

* The side panel vibrates in sympathy, I think, with the rear tri-cool. It's a horrible noise but was easily rectified with a little foam damping down the back edge. I'll probably replace this fan and get a set of those rubber fan mounts while I'm at it.

As for temperatures, well I'm not sure - Speedfan seems to list 6 seperate temps now! The one marked core is at 30C just now and Temp 1 just above it is at 40C. Above those are the HD at 35C and Temps 1 (again), 2 and 3 which are at 27C, 34C and 25C respectively. This is with F@H chugging away in the background over the last hour or so.

pixel_pimp · Post by **pixel_pimp** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:58 pm

As an afterthought, it may be a good thing that the HSF orientation worked out the way it did as this appears to be drawing cool air directly over the Nforce HS.

At some point this week, I'm going to try this thing fanless - will report back findings

casebuyer · Post by **casebuyer** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:57 am

is xilence power supplies has low noice