It has been sitting here, growling and whining for six months. My not-so-good DIY efforts toward quiet are frustrating. I need to do something. I am a non-DIY'r. Tinkering inside these boxes is a long scarey process.
I checked the Noise Sources sticky. My finger tests and letter-head earphones seem to identify the dominant (loudest) noises. Maybe, in concert, each part makes the whole? Here are the spec's:
Asus P5LD2 MB w/ stock intel cpu heatsink fan (6cm?) Sanyo
Intel PD-940? (3 gHz) cpu
Antec P-150 (frig') case w/ stock exit fan at Low power setting. The NeoHE was DOA; replaced with 500w Xion PSU. 2 Thermaltake forward pushers - they are disconnected [Where did I pull the plug?]
Three HDD - Raptor 74, Seagate 200 + 400
Graphics - XFX GeoForce 7300 Gs (512 ram)
The finger test and paper earphone seems to indicate the most irritating culprit is the high winding graphics fan. It is mounted with two screws. Don't block it with another card! It goes shrill.
When the GPF stops, the stock exit case fan has a puttering sound - is it tapping something? can I live with that?
The GPF and CPU are silenced. The PSU is noise maker #2.
The case fan may be dying? I have to replace the case fan. That is, fans. There is a reason the two intakes are disconnected.
The cpu fan needs a boost to restart. I think there is on-board speed control for it. Something ramps down after booting.
Task One - fix the graphics card. I'm stuck. What do I replace the fan with?
Task Two - replace the PSU. If I replace a PSU fan(s), it means pulling all the plugs and it took two weeks to properly reconnect the HDD cables after a sloppy shop-build job. The PSU sucks heated air, also. I can handle Mike Chin's Thailand build technique to isolate the PSU. I'm very suspicious of Neo HE's, however. Is there an alternate horizontal airflow PSU?
I'll stop here. Any suggestions? They are greatly appreciated.
Bruce
My [quiet] fiasco
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
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frankgehry
- Posts: 1424
- Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 5:00 am
- Location: New York, NY
A more constuctive approach would be to replace the stock heatsink with a thermalright xp-120, scythe ninja, thermalright ultra-120, or a thermalright si-120.
Next, rma the neohe, or get one of the newer seasonics or zalman 120mm fan models.
Then, instead of trying to silence your video card, I would just get a passive 7600gs.
There are a lot of other things to do like choosing the right fans, but you really need a good heatsink for your cpu, antec should be able to replace your defective neohe, and I don't know much about your psu, but I don't think it is a quiet one.
Next, rma the neohe, or get one of the newer seasonics or zalman 120mm fan models.
Then, instead of trying to silence your video card, I would just get a passive 7600gs.
There are a lot of other things to do like choosing the right fans, but you really need a good heatsink for your cpu, antec should be able to replace your defective neohe, and I don't know much about your psu, but I don't think it is a quiet one.
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spookmineer
- Patron of SPCR
- Posts: 749
- Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:02 pm
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frankgehry
- Posts: 1424
- Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 5:00 am
- Location: New York, NY
No reason other than I have just not been keeping up with the latest air cooled stuff. It would probably work great, especially with a 940, using a recent version of the nmb-mat 120x38 where the additional static pressure of the fan would counteract the thickness and closer fin spacing (?) of the si-128. I don't know how anyone can predict this without testing, but I certainly would not use it with the "optimized for free air noctua". Thanks for bringing the si-128 to my attention as it seems to offer some improvements over the xp-120/si-120, and tower heatsinks do not do much for the motherboard.
A Pentium D 940 with stock heat sink is quiet at idle, and very noisy under load. To deal with that, you need a high-end heat pipe tower heat sink. The Ninja, HR-01 or Ultra-120 are all good choices. Since you aren't making DIY a way of life, I'd suggest the HR-01, which comes with a duct that is easy to install. You should also get some good TIM; for $20 you can get an Arctic Silver cleaning kit and some Arctic Silver 5 TIM.
But I think your biggest noise source is the graphics card fan. The XFX 7300 GS stock HSF cries out for replacement. This is a relatively low-power GPU, so something fairly simple such as a VM-101 would let you cool it passively. Or you could go for overkill with an HR-03. (or massive overkill with an Aerocase Raptor)
I suspect that the two Seagates are the third loudest part of your system, with the stock Antec case fans being a distant fourth.
But I think your biggest noise source is the graphics card fan. The XFX 7300 GS stock HSF cries out for replacement. This is a relatively low-power GPU, so something fairly simple such as a VM-101 would let you cool it passively. Or you could go for overkill with an HR-03. (or massive overkill with an Aerocase Raptor)
I suspect that the two Seagates are the third loudest part of your system, with the stock Antec case fans being a distant fourth.
Thanks, Frank, Chris:
Chris, your C2D article has me perversely hoping to ruin a CPU and MB if I ever get to changing that heat sink. I'm hoping separating TIM contacts is more like grease than contact cement - my first attempt will be this guy. I've never heard the cpu fan speed up so more power is obviously a waste.
Oddly, since you mention the low-power GPU, I had forgotten my insistance for a "quiet" gpu when they put the system together. Deleting one fan sounds wonderful! Maybe, I should go to an Aerocase - just in case something happens to the board and D chip. ;)
Next stop: VISA land.
Chris, your C2D article has me perversely hoping to ruin a CPU and MB if I ever get to changing that heat sink. I'm hoping separating TIM contacts is more like grease than contact cement - my first attempt will be this guy. I've never heard the cpu fan speed up so more power is obviously a waste.
Oddly, since you mention the low-power GPU, I had forgotten my insistance for a "quiet" gpu when they put the system together. Deleting one fan sounds wonderful! Maybe, I should go to an Aerocase - just in case something happens to the board and D chip. ;)
Next stop: VISA land.
My VISA got me into trouble the first time.... Have been researching the recommendations before throwing it onto the counter.
AeroCool (VM 101) does not list my GeForce 7300 GS in their compatibility chart. [Please ignore bad grammar.] I'm a little uncomfortable with trying it. The Thermalright V1 Ultra is compatible, but SPCR's GPU article has me nervous about my mechanical capabilities. While reading the article, the Zalman VF 700 (fan) will work with my 2-bolt card. I'm leaning that direction. It's about $30 and I can grab it at just about any retailer, so it could be combined with *other* quieting solutions.
The Thermalright Ultra 120 CPU cooler will conveniently fill up space making the rat nest of PSU cables look pretty tacky. The PSU is the No. 2 noise maker and blood tends toward boiling every time I look at it.
This will be a three-point attack. I just need to resolve the PSU replacement.
AeroCool (VM 101) does not list my GeForce 7300 GS in their compatibility chart. [Please ignore bad grammar.] I'm a little uncomfortable with trying it. The Thermalright V1 Ultra is compatible, but SPCR's GPU article has me nervous about my mechanical capabilities. While reading the article, the Zalman VF 700 (fan) will work with my 2-bolt card. I'm leaning that direction. It's about $30 and I can grab it at just about any retailer, so it could be combined with *other* quieting solutions.
The Thermalright Ultra 120 CPU cooler will conveniently fill up space making the rat nest of PSU cables look pretty tacky. The PSU is the No. 2 noise maker and blood tends toward boiling every time I look at it.
This will be a three-point attack. I just need to resolve the PSU replacement.
I'm sure you'll do fine, hbm55. But if you're really worried about it, why not go to a pawn shop or computer recycler and buy the cheapest system you can find and practice taking it apart and putting it back together. That way, if you wreck anything, it won't matter much.
I remember the very first modification I ever made to a computer. I opened up my Dell desktop case and installed another 32mb of ram! I checked and re-checked and triple-checked to make sure I was putting it in the right way. And when I was absolutely sure, I started to push it in. The motherboard started to flex and I stopped a couple of times and pulled the RAM out and made sure it was going in the right way. But finally, POP! in it went. I breathed a huge sigh of relief. But I learned that RAM takes a lot of shoving to get it in. That's why I think getting a system you can wreck would be...constructive.
I remember the very first modification I ever made to a computer. I opened up my Dell desktop case and installed another 32mb of ram! I checked and re-checked and triple-checked to make sure I was putting it in the right way. And when I was absolutely sure, I started to push it in. The motherboard started to flex and I stopped a couple of times and pulled the RAM out and made sure it was going in the right way. But finally, POP! in it went. I breathed a huge sigh of relief. But I learned that RAM takes a lot of shoving to get it in. That's why I think getting a system you can wreck would be...constructive.
Seasons Greetings! Happy Holidays!
I move very quickly, as you can readily see... The replacement parts arrived just before this New Year's weekend. I'm starting with the PSU - it seemed the easiest thing to fix, after hours of pouring over website cpu building guides. You know, finding answers to those tough questions, like: does a floppy drive need a power line, or will the floppy strip have all the juice? The floppy works, now; but the media card parts are still dead.
The change-over was a partial success. I picked up the p-150's native PSU, Neo-he-430, and it runs. It is powering this post. The Seasonic will be shipped back when I get comfortable with this second NHE. Seasonic is #3 and the current replacement, Neo-HE, is #4 psu for this case.
I said a "partial success". The original 3-speed 120 Antec case fan has mangled connectors; one of the 92mm intake Thermaltake fans has mangle connectors. Cheap molex(?) connectors on fans are no match for the rugged hardware that comes with a psu. I picked up a couple 92 Tricools with the power supply, and of course, put the 120 Tricool back on the shelf; this was done a couple days ago, before the change. These are the closest things I have found to "quiet" fans from off the shelf sources. The monitoring software for the Asus P5LD2 can "see" the 92 Tricool plugged into the MB. The onboard BIOS is having issues in the hardware monitoring section and flashing BIOS is a big leap even though I've done it on less sophisticated systems.
Next? Two things not on the original list: Fix the BIOS, and the media card readers. Probably something really easy that will take another weekend to resolve. Then, it will be a cpu heat-sink (Ninjas are humongous!!) because that is only one plug with no software changes. The final and loudest switch will be tossing the GPU and replacing with a Gigabyte 7600 GS (silent).
A final thought before closing this update. For all the other non-DIY'rs: Don't change your mind. And, don't ever think a repair will be easy. I'm just stubborn now and will do the changes myself.
Bruce
I move very quickly, as you can readily see... The replacement parts arrived just before this New Year's weekend. I'm starting with the PSU - it seemed the easiest thing to fix, after hours of pouring over website cpu building guides. You know, finding answers to those tough questions, like: does a floppy drive need a power line, or will the floppy strip have all the juice? The floppy works, now; but the media card parts are still dead.
The change-over was a partial success. I picked up the p-150's native PSU, Neo-he-430, and it runs. It is powering this post. The Seasonic will be shipped back when I get comfortable with this second NHE. Seasonic is #3 and the current replacement, Neo-HE, is #4 psu for this case.
I said a "partial success". The original 3-speed 120 Antec case fan has mangled connectors; one of the 92mm intake Thermaltake fans has mangle connectors. Cheap molex(?) connectors on fans are no match for the rugged hardware that comes with a psu. I picked up a couple 92 Tricools with the power supply, and of course, put the 120 Tricool back on the shelf; this was done a couple days ago, before the change. These are the closest things I have found to "quiet" fans from off the shelf sources. The monitoring software for the Asus P5LD2 can "see" the 92 Tricool plugged into the MB. The onboard BIOS is having issues in the hardware monitoring section and flashing BIOS is a big leap even though I've done it on less sophisticated systems.
Next? Two things not on the original list: Fix the BIOS, and the media card readers. Probably something really easy that will take another weekend to resolve. Then, it will be a cpu heat-sink (Ninjas are humongous!!) because that is only one plug with no software changes. The final and loudest switch will be tossing the GPU and replacing with a Gigabyte 7600 GS (silent).
A final thought before closing this update. For all the other non-DIY'rs: Don't change your mind. And, don't ever think a repair will be easy. I'm just stubborn now and will do the changes myself.
Bruce
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Shadowknight
- Posts: 1283
- Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:43 pm
- Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
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Shadowknight
- Posts: 1283
- Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:43 pm
- Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
Maybe it varies by model, maybe it doesn't, but I had one of those floppy/media reader combos. One of the two Media slots worked, and the floppy, but the other media slot I NEEDED to work didn't.hbm55 wrote:The floppy *IS* a Mitsumi. One of those with about 4 flash card slots. I can't see having just a floppy anymore.
This gets more frustrating.
Bruce
Try going to Best Buy and get another brand of media reader. You can always return it, but just try another media reader. I'm not going to buy Mitsumi again, if they make a piece of crap like that. Due to a computer crash, I can't tell you what I eventually got offhand, but other companies do make readers that don't suck.
I don't know how to clip and paste quotes so...
The media cards didn't work on mine, and the floppy was pretty fickle about the disks it wanted to run at boot [more on next post]. I'm looking for a sim. replacement but we floppy people are a dying race.
Sorry to hear of your crash. They're always expensive for me to fix.
Bruce
The media cards didn't work on mine, and the floppy was pretty fickle about the disks it wanted to run at boot [more on next post]. I'm looking for a sim. replacement but we floppy people are a dying race.
Sorry to hear of your crash. They're always expensive for me to fix.
Bruce
The issue still is the fans. Quieter, but still too noisy.
The change-over has been made, with a couple changes to the original task list. And, so far, I can play in the BIOS. Not bad for a first-timer, I think? My son kept me honest by reading the manual. "Impetuous old men!"
When I learned that Son's computer was dead, I went deeper into the replacement list to tap into the "wish list". It was Christmas! The current hardware list is:
Antec p-150 case (one of four original items)
Intel c2d 6400 (930D to son)
Scythe Ninja -rev. B with 120 fan strapped on
Asus p5b deluxe/WIFI - #3 board (p5ld2 to son)
Neo-he 430 (new and still running - #4 psu)
WD 74 Raptor (active)
Seagate 200 Gb
Gigabyte 7600-gs Silent pipe graphics (old "screamer" to son & hopefully, recycle bin)
2 Gb Crucial DDR2 (previous to son)
120 & 92 Tricools (exhaust and front) + Scythe 120 on heatsink
Mitsumi media/floppy combo [a fickle pain]
It's another new computer. :(
I have enough trouble maintaining a working cpu. The memory was the costliest item in the new list. I went with reputation. WIFI was a $15 upgrade to avoid worrying about a wireless stick protruding from the case front.
The issue still is the fans. The BIOS fan control simply moderates voltage, as far as I can tell. Silent mode brings them down to about 1000 - 1150 rpm. I've been looking at the rheostat-type controllers, but not too excited about plugging the planned psu isolation chamber. Is there a software alternative that will reduce the voltage further?
On a positive note, The case, MB, and monstrous heatsink are a sweet combination, physically. The heatsink, its fan and RAM were pre-installed, before mounting the board. I used a ram bag for shim to keep the fan from leaning on the first ram stick; then pulled them away. The only sticky issue was plugging in the 4-pin 12v connection. Some needle-nose pliers and chopsticks solved the access problem. All the wiring connections are at the board perimeters and very little cabling is exposed. [Maybe, all boards are this way.] There's a nice pocket behind the HDD bays to stuff surplus wire.
I'm a bit worried about the passive-cooled graphics card.
Any fan resolution advice is appreciated.
Bruce
(Getting into this computer stuff - sort of)
The change-over has been made, with a couple changes to the original task list. And, so far, I can play in the BIOS. Not bad for a first-timer, I think? My son kept me honest by reading the manual. "Impetuous old men!"
When I learned that Son's computer was dead, I went deeper into the replacement list to tap into the "wish list". It was Christmas! The current hardware list is:
Antec p-150 case (one of four original items)
Intel c2d 6400 (930D to son)
Scythe Ninja -rev. B with 120 fan strapped on
Asus p5b deluxe/WIFI - #3 board (p5ld2 to son)
Neo-he 430 (new and still running - #4 psu)
WD 74 Raptor (active)
Seagate 200 Gb
Gigabyte 7600-gs Silent pipe graphics (old "screamer" to son & hopefully, recycle bin)
2 Gb Crucial DDR2 (previous to son)
120 & 92 Tricools (exhaust and front) + Scythe 120 on heatsink
Mitsumi media/floppy combo [a fickle pain]
It's another new computer. :(
I have enough trouble maintaining a working cpu. The memory was the costliest item in the new list. I went with reputation. WIFI was a $15 upgrade to avoid worrying about a wireless stick protruding from the case front.
The issue still is the fans. The BIOS fan control simply moderates voltage, as far as I can tell. Silent mode brings them down to about 1000 - 1150 rpm. I've been looking at the rheostat-type controllers, but not too excited about plugging the planned psu isolation chamber. Is there a software alternative that will reduce the voltage further?
On a positive note, The case, MB, and monstrous heatsink are a sweet combination, physically. The heatsink, its fan and RAM were pre-installed, before mounting the board. I used a ram bag for shim to keep the fan from leaning on the first ram stick; then pulled them away. The only sticky issue was plugging in the 4-pin 12v connection. Some needle-nose pliers and chopsticks solved the access problem. All the wiring connections are at the board perimeters and very little cabling is exposed. [Maybe, all boards are this way.] There's a nice pocket behind the HDD bays to stuff surplus wire.
I'm a bit worried about the passive-cooled graphics card.
Any fan resolution advice is appreciated.
Bruce
(Getting into this computer stuff - sort of)
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Shadowknight
- Posts: 1283
- Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:43 pm
- Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
For the record, here's the floppy/media reader combo I've got http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications ... &CatId=962hbm55 wrote: The media cards didn't work on mine, and the floppy was pretty fickle about the disks it wanted to run at boot [more on next post]. I'm looking for a sim. replacement but we floppy people are a dying race.
Sorry to hear of your crash. They're always expensive for me to fix.
I'm assuming you do have the USB cable for the card reader portion of the floppy/card reader plugged in? After that--drivers and usage are a pain, but once you get them figured out it rocks.
You must install the drivers *first*, then hook up the reader to motherboard USB header. Then, don't use the Windows "Remove Hardware" tool--it has a tendency to remove your card reader from being available! Instead just right-click on the virtual "drive" in use in My Computer, and hit eject
And don't go throwing your cameras memory cards into the floppy slot
Like you and some of the others here have mentioned, it all starts somewhere with DIY. And now I have 3 custom built computers at home, a smattering of family members who have my builds in use, and ever more on the way. Rebuilding my wife's computer at this very moment actually
edit: here's my floppy/card combo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6821104104
You must install the drivers *first*, then hook up the reader to motherboard USB header. Then, don't use the Windows "Remove Hardware" tool--it has a tendency to remove your card reader from being available! Instead just right-click on the virtual "drive" in use in My Computer, and hit eject
And don't go throwing your cameras memory cards into the floppy slot
Like you and some of the others here have mentioned, it all starts somewhere with DIY. And now I have 3 custom built computers at home, a smattering of family members who have my builds in use, and ever more on the way. Rebuilding my wife's computer at this very moment actually
edit: here's my floppy/card combo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6821104104
I'm up and running!
Closed the door, glued down the cables and paneled the sides about 7am this morning. At 4p, after XP and Office - plus 75 updates - were installed, "Son" christened his Xmas present to me, an Icy Dock in colors to match the case. It's a cute little "book-size" external drive enclosure. He's rebuilding his system at the moment. The unused Seasonic is in his case. I took a 9% discount to avoid an RMA.
Unplugged the front fan because the Raptor is running at 25 - 27c (23 - 43 per SMART site) and the cpu is only a notch more. I think it's rheostat time. None of the software fan gizmos push the rpm's any lower than the BIOS "silent" mode. Speedfan didn't register, and a search of supported boards excluded the P5B series.
This Floppy digression got me interested. Mine and Son's are OEM Mitsumi - no drivers. We were very careful to plug into usb port with ground aligned properly. He was, I had it in the firewire port. The lecture sounded familiar. I never knew a media card can be "ejected", which answers the question of OS/board recognition. I'll keep the drive even though "computer grey" doesn't match "refrigerator white".
Need to do some more tinkering.
Thanks,
Bruce
Closed the door, glued down the cables and paneled the sides about 7am this morning. At 4p, after XP and Office - plus 75 updates - were installed, "Son" christened his Xmas present to me, an Icy Dock in colors to match the case. It's a cute little "book-size" external drive enclosure. He's rebuilding his system at the moment. The unused Seasonic is in his case. I took a 9% discount to avoid an RMA.
Unplugged the front fan because the Raptor is running at 25 - 27c (23 - 43 per SMART site) and the cpu is only a notch more. I think it's rheostat time. None of the software fan gizmos push the rpm's any lower than the BIOS "silent" mode. Speedfan didn't register, and a search of supported boards excluded the P5B series.
This Floppy digression got me interested. Mine and Son's are OEM Mitsumi - no drivers. We were very careful to plug into usb port with ground aligned properly. He was, I had it in the firewire port. The lecture sounded familiar. I never knew a media card can be "ejected", which answers the question of OS/board recognition. I'll keep the drive even though "computer grey" doesn't match "refrigerator white".
Need to do some more tinkering.
Thanks,
Bruce
Yeah the mitsumi readers are nice once they work--but getting and keeping them that way isn't fun at all. I use the FA-404M drivers from Mitsumi's site.
Listing of Mitsu drivers here: http://www.mitsumi.com/enduser/1_drivers.html#FDD
Listing of Mitsu drivers here: http://www.mitsumi.com/enduser/1_drivers.html#FDD
Mitsumi is flakey!
I 've been playing with the drivers today to restore the media card readers, then finally disconnected the floppy and deleted the default MS drivers for it. Was trying to go through psiu's procedure and finally got both floppy and media cards recognized. It had to be a case of auto procedure because I gave up looking for the .inf file the new hardware wizard wanted.
The floppy and two media drives were there both ones I use, but might try the firmware update and see if the others are recognized.
Bruce
I 've been playing with the drivers today to restore the media card readers, then finally disconnected the floppy and deleted the default MS drivers for it. Was trying to go through psiu's procedure and finally got both floppy and media cards recognized. It had to be a case of auto procedure because I gave up looking for the .inf file the new hardware wizard wanted.
The floppy and two media drives were there both ones I use, but might try the firmware update and see if the others are recognized.
Bruce