Silverstone TJ-08 + XFX 7950GT and Zalman 9500, etc?

TheRove · Post by **TheRove** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:55 am

After giving up on the idea of having a completely passively cooled case (TNN/HFX) I decided to see if I could build something small and relatively quiet with standard parts.

The case I've decided on is the Silverstone TJ08 with 2 Nexus fans for intake/outtake, and a Corsair 520 modular power supply.

My only motherboard option appears to Intel's Shrewsbury mATX board, because the layout allows for a double slot PCI-E x16 card without blocking one of only two PCI expansion slots. The Asus P5B-VM was my first choice, but I'd be giving up a PCI slot which is unacceptable. On the Shrewsbury the double slot cooling would only be blocking the PCI-E x4 slot, which I have no use for anyway. Does anyone have any experience with this motherboard, or know of any other mATX motherboards that allow double slot VGA cooling without blocking PCI slots?

What I'd like to do, is fit a passively cooled XFX 7950GT in this case, alongside a big Zalman cooler (9500 or 7700, I doubt the 7000 will fit). Similar to this setup (in a completely different case) http://img335.imageshack.us/img335/9364 ... it1ed3.jpg The problem I have is that the 7950GT's heatsink seems to be quite wide, and I question whether It'll fit in a TJ-08. The TJ-08 is only 195mm wide. The CPU cooler in the picture is a 9700 I believe (not 100% sure though), if it's a 9500 I really doubt it would fit in the TJ-08.

If you have any info that could help me out, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks.

Felger Carbon · Post by **Felger Carbon** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:32 am

If you're determined to have a small uATX tower case...
If you want a 120mm exhaust fan...
Then your choices are the TJ08, the Athenatech A301, and the Evercase 3505. I own an A301 and several 3505s, so I'm familiar with them. The case innards on the TJ08 and A301 are identical. The little bag of parts that come with the two cases are identical. The TJ08 has a better fan exhaust cutout on the rear panel, and costs more.

However, small cases are by definition not large on the inside. The TJ08/A301 cases are exceptionally short-coupled, being 1-1/8" shorter from front to back than the Evercase 3505. Forget long video cards! If you prefer the extra length of the 3505, eWiz has the black/silver ones without PSU for $35. Goto desktop cases and search "Evercase".

If you love cramming 10lbs into 5lb spaces, you'll love the TJ08/A301.

The 3505 is no walk in the park, either, but you can breathe...

sgtspiff · Post by **sgtspiff** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:26 pm

I'm just about to build a system with following;

Silverstone TJ08
C2D E6400
Scythe Ninja (passive)
2 Noctua fans
Corsair 520
Asus P5L-VM 1394
MSI 7950 GT

So it's almost exactly the same XFXs equal to MSI (a bit cheaper, a bit short in performance). Noctuas (a bit better, twice as expensive). Ninja because it's supposed to be the best passive cooler. Asus and Intel is the same just that it's harder to get the Intel in Sweden (only suspicious vendors got the shrewsbury that I like even better then the asus).

So I don't know how it will end but I'm not worried about heat and airflow. It's a small case and two 12cm fans will be enough.
If you want to know how it ends ask me after the holidays as I will build it then.

TheRove · Post by **TheRove** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:35 pm

I'm pretty much sold on the TJ-08. I know the Atenatech is practically identical, but it's not sold in Europe. At least nowhere that I've looked. eWiz doesn't ship internationally. I also think the TJ-08 has a much classier look, and a better quality front panel. Worth the premium in my opinion.

You mention long videocards would be a problem, but judging by the pictures (http://img251.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... 01a2bq.jpg) it seems fine? The TJ-08 (and the Athenatech) just seem ideal for the XFX 7950GT because of how easily the intake fan can cool the card's heatsink.

I've been trying to figure out just by looking at pictures whether or not it'll fit, and I think it will, but it's very very tight. Lengthwise I don't think it'll be a problem, but width might be. If it does fit, I'll only have a few millimeters to spare. Which is fine.

What I could really use is a measurement of how much wider the XFX 7950GT is than a stock 7950/7900.

Any thoughts on the Zalman 9500? Think it'll fit?

TheRove · Post by **TheRove** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:49 pm

sgtspiff: that is almost IDENTICAL to what I'm planning to build!

I was considering the Ninja, but I thought using it to cool a E6400 passively would be a bit of a problem with the video card's heatsink so closely to it, which is why I'm looking for the biggest non passive cooler that'll fit.

The MSI 7950GT looks interesting (and it'll fit the TJ08 for sure) but I read some reviews saying it had heat issues. If you look at the pictures you'll see the ram isn't cooled in any way. This seems like it could be a problem. I mean I could always get a regular 7950GT and fit an aftermarket cooler, but why void the warranty if I don't have to?

What surprises me is that the Shrewsbury is the only uATX motherboard that I've been able to find that doesn't have double slot cooling block a PCI slot. The Asus P5L-VM seems like a good motherboard, but I really need 2 PCI slots (TV card/Audigy).

Good luck with your build.

Felger Carbon · Post by **Felger Carbon** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:18 pm

Well, a Ninja fits:

This is my first install in the new case, which also used a new mobo and some other new stuff. The strange thing hanging in the bottom front is the white-sidewall version of my "SUV SUS(pension)", which contains two 3.5" HDDs and a 100mm cooling fan (the box is open to the back for air in and air out). That's a 13cm Silent Wheel fan in the back. Yes, 13cm.

No smoke, but you just know that with so much new stuff, something was gonna bite. This time, it was the bios on the mobo. Won't recognize a 64-bit Sempron, fatal error, shut down. Take it apart and put it back together with a diffrunt CPU (sigh).

TheRove · Post by **TheRove** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 2:12 pm

I can see why you'd advise against large video cards! I like your harddrive suspension rig, but it's clearly taking up A LOT of space. Spacewise, would it be possible to position a harddrive on the bottom of the case (on a foam mat for instance), with the longer side facing the case fan?

Felger Carbon · Post by **Felger Carbon** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 3:12 pm

Yes, but you still have the problem of cooling the HDD(s), which is one of the things my rig was designed to solve. With my rig, I have 1/8" of buna rubber sealing the front panel - ideally, there would be no way for noise to exit the case interior by way of the bezel. With the sideways HDD(s), you need an intake fan, and an open air path thru the front panel.

There are always choices and compromises to make. I came down on good cooling and blocking noise from passing thru the front panel (as well as dampening seek and vibration). Nothing's perfect, not even my wonderful design.

TheRove · Post by **TheRove** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:09 am

I guess I'll look into the best ways to mount my harddrive once I actually get the case.

Can you tell me though, is the 3.5" cage removeable? On pictures of the TJ08, it looks like it can be unscrewed, but I'd like to be sure.

Felger Carbon · Post by **Felger Carbon** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 9:11 am

TheRove wrote:I guess I'll look into the best ways to mount my harddrive once I actually get the case. Can you tell me though, is the 3.5" cage removeable? On pictures of the TJ08, it looks like it can be unscrewed, but I'd like to be sure.

I'm pretty sure it can be, but I did not physically remove it to make sure. There are some screws to remove, two or three.

sgtspiff · Post by **sgtspiff** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:24 am

TheRove wrote:sgtspiff: that is almost IDENTICAL to what I'm planning to build!

I was considering the Ninja, but I thought using it to cool a E6400 passively would be a bit of a problem with the video card's heatsink so closely to it, which is why I'm looking for the biggest non passive cooler that'll fit.

The MSI 7950GT looks interesting (and it'll fit the TJ08 for sure) but I read some reviews saying it had heat issues. If you look at the pictures you'll see the ram isn't cooled in any way. This seems like it could be a problem. I mean I could always get a regular 7950GT and fit an aftermarket cooler, but why void the warranty if I don't have to?

What surprises me is that the Shrewsbury is the only uATX motherboard that I've been able to find that doesn't have double slot cooling block a PCI slot. The Asus P5L-VM seems like a good motherboard, but I really need 2 PCI slots (TV card/Audigy).

Good luck with your build.

I'm not to worried about the sound so 1 PCI is enough for me.

The MSI problem with cooling the ram I've solved with these guys;

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835118220

I've chosen the Noctuas because they're able to keep quiet even though they got some speed. It's a small case and I will have 2 120mm fans. And if it won't help I'll get this for the VGA card;

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835118204
(they will pull air from the VGA out through the holes in the side of the TJ08)

And put on the fan back on to the Ninja.

Also I forgot that I've spoken to another dude that has the same system as me except a Seasonic 380W instead of Corsair and he skipped the scythe quiet drive I've planned.
The system works perfect for him and he has no problems at all.

TheRove · Post by **TheRove** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:54 pm

Maybe I'll just go with the Ninja, then.

Also, how do you plan on mounting the Scythe quiet drive? I think it's a fairly long unit, won't it interfere with your PSU's cables? Maybe you'll find this interesting: http://hfx.xs4all.nl/weblogs/mods/categ ... silent-pc/ Particularly this picture: http://hfx.xs4all.nl/weblogs/mods/wp-co ... G_4062.JPG
Note that optical drive is a special "half length" one. I don't see how a harddrive enclosure is going to fit?

I don't like the rubberband suspension (I think it'll snap eventually), but I do like the idea of mounting a harddrive enclosure there in some manner. Maybe glue it to the side of the case with some rubber blocks in between?

rei · Post by **rei** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:46 pm

Let us know how it goes. This too was going to be my original build but budget/practical constraints made me reconsider.

sgtspiff · Post by **sgtspiff** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:24 am

I've measured and calculated that there will be 3cm of space between the quiet drive and the PSU. It will be tight but it is a microATX case. It's supposed to be tight.
As I don't plan to have any more HDD then the raptor I'll put in the quiet drive the cage for the 3,5" are fre to put wires in.
Another problem with the cage is what madshrimps review found;

http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getart ... rticID=466

The picture shows normally mounted hdds don't have much space for the memory.
The pictures also shows a 178mm NEC cd writer and there is space to the PSU (the quiet drive is 190mm).

TheRove · Post by **TheRove** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:34 am

Except for the CPU cooler I think I've figured everything out in my head. What I'd like to do most, is get a Silverstone NT01 and mount it with the heatsink facing up, so the PSU fan does most of the cooling. I've been measuring pictures (lol) and I think it just might fit, but it'll be extremely tight. Does anyone with a TJ08 know how much clearance you have between the top of your motherboard and the PSU? I think I need 21mm.

Due to the placement of the socket on the motherboard, I know it would comfortably fit on an AM2 motherboard. I was willing to go with AM2 instead of S775 (big performance hit) until I realized the NT01 has no AM2 support.

Another option I was considering is the NT06. I read on another forum it does fit in the TJ08 on a Asus P5B-VM, but I have the heatsink on the 7950GT to worry about as well. It might fit, but very very snugly. If you have this kind of setup, do you know if there's enough clearance to mount the NT06 with the heatsinks facing the fan, with the heatsink hanging over the ram? If this fits I'll have no problems with the 7950GT heatsink.

I'm getting dangerously close to having to order the parts, and this is the final hurdle, so to speak.

Felger Carbon · Post by **Felger Carbon** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:24 am

TheRove wrote:Except for the CPU cooler I think I've figured everything out in my head. What I'd like to do most, is get a Silverstone NT01 and mount it with the heatsink facing up, so the PSU fan does most of the cooling. I've been measuring pictures (lol) and I think it just might fit, but it'll be extremely tight. Does anyone with a TJ08 know how much clearance you have between the top of your motherboard and the PSU? I think I need 21mm.

I posted a photo of the A301/TJ08 earlier in this post with a "passive" Ninja, sitting next to a 13cm exhaust fan and a 12cm PSU fan. There's lotsa room to the PSU; the A301 isn't short vertically, it's short front to back. I personally admire individual initiative, but most SPCR HS bigots would say you're flippin' nuts to use a NT01 where a passive Ninja would work great.

TheRove · Post by **TheRove** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:59 am

The Ninja will fit and work perfectly, but it pretty much makes the 3.5" drivecage useless. It's not a huge deal since I don't plan on mounting any harddrives in it, but it's good to have the option.

I actually just found the cooler I think i'm going to use. It's the Akasa EVO-120. Here's a picture of it inside a TJ08! http://www.xtremecomputing.co.uk/images ... age069.jpg

The difference in noise between 3 lowspeed 120mm fans and 4 is probably indistinguishable to my ear, and having the option to crank up the fanspeed if necessary seems like a good idea. Also, with the 7950GT's passive heatsink being perfectly cooled by the intake fan and the CPU heatsink's fan, I don't think I'll have any heat related problems. I will try to mount the CPU cooler with the heatsink facing up, but if that doesn't work, the configuration in the picture seems excellent.

DonQ · Post by **DonQ** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:24 pm

TheRove wrote:Does anyone with a TJ08 know how much clearance you have between the top of your motherboard and the PSU? I think I need 21mm

I just measured 22mm.

Right now I'm experimenting with a one fan system. Yate Loon D12SL-12

Case: TJ08
CPU: Opteron 152, 44.1W
PSU: ST30NF
Mobo: GA-K8N51GMF-9
VGA: 7600GT GV-NX76T128D-RH
HDD: WD 500SK, mounted bottom of case

While compiling in a loop my Linux kernel

Fan at 1300RPM
CPU: 54.0C
GPU: 41C
Case: 33C
HDD: 34C
Room Temp ~ 60F.

Shoot, I'll do my own thread soon. This is cool.

TheRove · Post by **TheRove** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:10 pm

Thanks for the measurement DonQ! I'm just going to order both the NT01 and the Akasa EVO-120. If the NT01 won't fit, I'll just send it back.

TheRove · Post by **TheRove** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 3:34 pm

Well, I still haven't ordered anything.

I'm actually getting a little discouraged because there's always some obstacle that can't be overcome. uATX Conroe motherboards are garbage. I've researched them all intensively, and not one seems to meet my (very basic) expectations; 1) double-slot VGA cooling without sacrificing a PCI slot 2) decent memory compatibility (not just limited to 1.8v valueram).

Currently I'm looking at AM2 as an alternative, which is looking much better. The Abit NF-M2 seems perfect. Two problems with going this route however; 1) AM2 cooler selection is limited, 2) 7950GT's big heatsink limits my options even further. I've seen pictures of a Ninja on this motherboard, but the risk of damaging a capacitor (it's a ridiculously tight squeeze) and the fact that it'll never fit with my 7950GT means it's not an option. Thermalright SI-128 is too big as well.

The only AM2 compatible cooler that I think will work is the Zalman 9500. Does anyone have this cooler in use on this motherboard? Or do you know of any alternatives I should consider?

rei · Post by **rei** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 3:41 pm

I'm going to put the Freezer 64 Pro PWM on mine next week since I have all the parts now.

TheRove · Post by **TheRove** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:26 am

I don't think I like the Freezer.

Here's what I'm considering now:

Silverstone TJ-08
Abit NF-m2 nView
AMD x2 4200+ 65Watt (possibly 89Watt 5200+)
2GB Corsair CL4 PC2-6400
XFX 7950GT passive
Noctua NH-U 12 (or 9)

I'm just not 100% sure the cooler will fit. The Ninja is too tight a squeeze on this mobo, but the heatpipes on the Noctuas don't seem to extend outward as much, so it looks like it will fit. Some affirmation on this would be appreciated though. The NH-U 12 seems perfectly suited for passive cooling in the TJ08, but I worry it might be SLIGHTLY too tall for the case. Any thoughts?

Felger Carbon · Post by **Felger Carbon** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:09 am

TheRove wrote:The NH-U 12 seems perfectly suited for passive cooling in the TJ08, but I worry it might be SLIGHTLY too tall for the case. Any thoughts?

The Noctua towers are good heat sinks that cannot be rotated 90 degrees. Often, on an AMD mobo, that means the airflow thru the Noctua goes straight towards the PSU, not the exhaust fan where it properly belongs. This is mobo dependent, of course.

TheRove · Post by **TheRove** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:54 pm

Well I've decided.

On January 2nd this is what I'll be ordering:

Kingston 2GB PC25300 valueram
Intel DG965OT
Intel E6600
XFX 7950GT
Corsair 520
X-Fi Xtreme gamer
Silverstone TJ08
3 B&W Nexus fans
Akasa EVO-120
36GB Raptor

Not sure what I'm gonna do with the Raptor yet, but I've ordered a Scythe SQD and see if there's sufficient airflow in my case to mount it in my spare 5.25" bay. Also going to invest in some kind of external raid solution for storage. Haven't looked much yet, but there don't seem to be that many passively cooled raid enclosures available. I'm sure I'll find one though!

Thanks for all the help.

TheRove · Post by **TheRove** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:47 pm

Well I got half my order in. Motherboard/CPU/Raptor/fans. I don't have the Akasa EVO-120 yet, but my measurements tell me it probably won't fit. And even if the capacitors don't get in the way, I don't think I'll be able to install an exhaust fan. This is really annoying because the chipset cooler on this board is so tall and wide, it won't allow for any other big heatsink coolers (i.e. Ninja). I should have the EVO-120 on monday, if it doesn't fit, both the EVO-120 and the DG965OT are going back and I'm getting a Conroe945-DVI with a Ninja. A combination I _KNOW_ will work.

TheRove · Post by **TheRove** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:23 am

Just put my system together. I've experienced some moments of pure silent bliss. Unfortunately there seems to be a problem with my Corsair HX520 as it is RIDICULOUSLY loud. Not the fan, either. There's a high pitched coil whine. I'm noise intolerant, but this would piss anyone off. It's really bad.

Sucks that I'm gonna have to RMA it since the rest of the system is so awesome.

peterj · Post by **peterj** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:16 pm

TheRove wrote:Just put my system together. I've experienced some moments of pure silent bliss. Unfortunately there seems to be a problem with my Corsair HX520 as it is RIDICULOUSLY loud. Not the fan, either. There's a high pitched coil whine. I'm noise intolerant, but this would piss anyone off. It's really bad. Sucks that I'm gonna have to RMA it since the rest of the system is so awesome.

And the EVO-120 fit?

I'm thinking of getting this cooler for a TJ08 Core 2 system, maybe removing the fan and ducting it to the exhaust. Just uncertain how it would perform compared to a Ninja, it's hard to find a comparing review of the EVO-120, particually the v2.

TheRove · Post by **TheRove** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:50 pm

EVO-120 fits perfectly. With the fan attached, there's about 1mm between it and my motherboard's (Intel DG965OT) northbridge heatsink. The cooler is tall enough so that even if it didn't fit, I could grind a millimeter or two off the fan and it would fit snugly.

I have to say I was majorly disappointed with the quality of this cooler though. The shroud is connected to the heatsink with 4 tiny screws between the cooling fins, two of which came loose due to their inability to properly deal with the shroud's tension. The bundled fan has a really annoying whine to it, as well. On top of that, the fan speed controller didn't work.

I couldn't find the v2 for sale anywhere (had a hard enough time locating even the v1), but I would assume most of these issues are fixed. And even if they're not, the cooler still works fine.

Ducting it to the exhaust is something I've considered but haven't tried yet. I actually like the idea better of removing the exhaust fan, and ducting the cooler to the exhaust cutout! My E6600 reaches a max of 43 degrees celcius, which means I could probably get away with removing either the exhaust fan or the cooler fan and ducting, but I also have a passively cooled 7950GT that appears to rely quite heavily on the fan mounted to the EVO-120. If you don't need the 3.5" cage (I have mine removed and the opening covered with mesh), I would probably opt for the Ninja. I'm getting a fan controller in the mail soon as well as some other bits, I'll try some different configurations then.

Although I have to say 3 Nexus fans and a Corsair 520HX are very close to inaudible from about 1m away, so there's not much of an improvement to be made. Biggest noise issue I have right now is my Raptor's seek noises that are louder than I anticipated.

rei · Post by **rei** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:10 pm

I just put in a 9500AM2 to replace a Freezer 64 Pro but it periodically click-clicks even though minimum speed is acceptable. Also have an Alpine 7 here I might try.

It looks like the Akasa Evo 120 v2 is my only (high-performance/silent) hope of having room to mount a HD underneath the 3.5 drive bay in my TJ08 since all other fans come too close/obstruct the molex/SATA/IDE cords over the DIMM slots.

It's the only HSF that angles itself towards the rear.

Now I have to hunt one down.