New microATX System: Changes/Recommendations to this System?

[joe1010]

I plan on purchasing this system:
- Antec Solution Series NSK2400 Black/Silver Steel MicroATX Desktop Computer Case 380W ATX12V
- Foxconn G9657MA-8EKRS2H LGA 775 Intel G965 Express Micro ATX Intel Motherboard
- Intel Core 2 Duo E4300 Allendale 1.8GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E4300 - Retail (plan on keeping retail fan)
- G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-6400CL5D-2GBNQ
- SAMSUNG SpinPoint T Series HD501LJ 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
- ASUS 16X DVD±R DVD Burner With 5X DVD-RAM Write Silver E-IDE/ATAPI Model DRW1608P3SSLV
- SAPPHIRE 100176L Radeon X1950PRO 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Video Card
- ZALMAN VF900 – CU 2 Ball VGA Cooler
- Scythe S-FLEX SFF21D 120mm Case Fan
- ZALMAN FAN MATE 2 Fan Controller
https://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/Wi ... e=microATX

I was wondering if anyone had any recommendations or changes they would make and why.

I will be using it primarily to edit video and audio and play games with all the bells and whistles turned on.

Notes:
- The system will be in a bedroom connected to a 32" LCD TV.
- I plan on overclocking the processor to anywhere from 2.4 to 3.0 GHZ, and want it to be quite when idle (don't want to shut it down every night).
- Plan on using the stock CPU cooler and undervolting the CPU if possible.
- Plan on replacing the video card fan with the ZALMAN VF900 – CU 2 Ball VGA Cooler.
- Want to wait for Vista to get some of the bugs out before upgrading.
- I am looking for something that will last 5+ years.

Some questions I have:
- Not 100% sure the 380 W power supply will be enough when overclocked.
- Not sure if I should replace the stock fans with Scythe S-FLEX SFF21D 120mm fans, or just use a fan controller on the stock fans. Or are other fans recommended over this one?
- Not sure if I need the Scythe SQD-1000 "Quiet Drive" Internal HDD Silencer or Scythe SCY-HDS2 "Anti-Vibration HDD Stabilizer or if I don't need either for the SAMSUNG SpinPoint T Series HD501LJ 500GB drive.
- Should I replace the stock CPU cooler? If so, with what (something that is small enough to fit in the case)?

I appreciate your thoughts in advance!

[jackylman]

-The Antec SU-380 should be able to power that system with no problems whatsoever. My only concern is the noise of the fan in it. I ended up doing a fan swap on mine, which is easier than it looks, but voids the warranty.

-I've found the Tri-Cool fans to be unsatisfactory in all of the builds I've done with Antec cases and would definitely recommend replacing them. Yes, other fans are recommended over them (see http://www.silentpcreview.com/article695-page1.html). If budget is a concern, just get Yate Loon 120mm fans from jab-tech.com and "rewire" the Molex connector on them to feed them 5V. Two of them in parallel should move enough air to keep the box cool.

-I have the Samsung 321KJ and have been extremely happy with it resting on foam. If the 500 GB version is just as quiet, I wouldn't put it in an enclosure. However, the drive does put out a lot of vibration, so be prepared for that.

-If I remember correctly, the Scythe Kitana and Arctic Cooling Alpine7 should fit (don't quote me on that though)

-Looks like it should be a good build. Good luck.

Personal Note: I haven't posted here in weeks. This feels so good!

[angelkiller]

Wow! Looks nice. Glad to see that someone has been doin' their homework.

Not 100% sure the 380 W power supply will be enough when overclocked.

It should be enough. When I say "should" I don't mean "marginally", but rather "I think so". I seriously doubt that system (even OC'ed) would draw that much.

Not sure if I should replace the stock fans with Scythe S-FLEX SFF21D 120mm fans, or just use a fan controller on the stock fans. Or are other fans recommended over this one?

Ah, yes, the Scythe SFF21D. I personally have some of those, and I think they are really quiet. I cannot compare this to other "quiet" fans though. As for replacing the stock fans with those, its your choice. I find the Tri-Cools acceptable as "quiet". (but I have four ideling Seagates in my system. ) Try the Tri-cools, and if you don't like em, send them back, and get the S-Flexes. (Just a note that most people here will tell you that Nexus makes the quietest fans.)

Not sure if I need the Scythe SQD-1000 "Quiet Drive" Internal HDD Silencer or Scythe SCY-HDS2 "Anti-Vibration HDD Stabilizer or if I don't need either for the SAMSUNG SpinPoint T Series HD501LJ 500GB drive.

I doubt you need either one. But again, try it without them and if you dont like the noise, then get those.

Should I replace the stock CPU cooler? If so, with what

YES! Intel's stock cooler is VERY noisy. Its hard to call a system "quiet" with a stock cooler. I have seen people run a Thermelright SI-128 passively (with an X2 3800+) here. I'm not sure how well it will handle a e4300 though. It might. (truth is I don't know )

[joe1010]

-The Antec SU-380 should be able to power that system with no problems whatsoever. My only concern is the noise of the fan in it. I ended up doing a fan swap on mine, which is easier than it looks, but voids the warranty.

What fan would you recommend as a replacement?

-I've found the Tri-Cool fans to be unsatisfactory in all of the builds I've done with Antec cases and would definitely recommend replacing them. Yes, other fans are recommended over them (see http://www.silentpcreview.com/article695-page1.html). If budget is a concern, just get Yate Loon 120mm fans from jab-tech.com and "rewire" the Molex connector on them to feed them 5V. Two of them in parallel should move enough air to keep the box cool.

Not too concerned with the price, but more keeping the heat down quietly. I guess I could buy the Yate Loon first to see how it performs, but I am also thinking about this just to get it over with: http://www.jab-tech.com/Noctua-120mm-Fa ... -3629.html

And thanks for the link to the article!

-I have the Samsung 321KJ and have been extremely happy with it resting on foam. If the 500 GB version is just as quiet, I wouldn't put it in an enclosure. However, the drive does put out a lot of vibration, so be prepared for that.

What do you think about this anti-vibration mounting kit: http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6817984001

-If I remember correctly, the Scythe Kitana and Arctic Cooling Alpine7 should fit (don't quote me on that though)

Looking into that...the Scythe looks tall!

-Looks like it should be a good build. Good luck.

Personal Note: I haven't posted here in weeks. This feels so good!

Thank you for your post, glad you are back posting!

[joe1010]

Wow! Looks nice. Glad to see that someone has been doin' their homework.

Yea, spent a lot of time trying to make sure the final product would be acceptable to the wife, be somewhat reasonable in price, and fast enough for me!

It should be enough. When I say "should" I don't mean "marginally", but rather "I think so". I seriously doubt that system (even OC'ed) would draw that much.

My calculations seem to reflect that 380W would be enough (with max 100 for the CPU and 120 for the VGA). Just wanted to get others thoughts.

Ah, yes, the Scythe SFF21D. I personally have some of those, and I think they are really quiet. I cannot compare this to other "quiet" fans though. As for replacing the stock fans with those, its your choice. I find the Tri-Cools acceptable as "quiet". (but I have four ideling Seagates in my system. ) Try the Tri-cools, and if you don't like em, send them back, and get the S-Flexes. (Just a note that most people here will tell you that Nexus makes the quietest fans.)

I am actually thinking of the Noctua 120mm Fan NF-S12-1200 now! I am sure they are all pretty good under volted, but I like the airflow of this one!

I doubt you need either one. But again, try it without them and if you dont like the noise, then get those.

Thanks...I will see how loud it is first.

YES! Intel's stock cooler is VERY noisy. Its hard to call a system "quiet" with a stock cooler. I have seen people run a Thermelright SI-128 passively (with an X2 3800+) here. I'm not sure how well it will handle a e4300 though. It might. (truth is I don't know )

I like that suggestion...looks like it might work (especially with the higher flow of the Noctua fans). Thanks for your response!

[PPGMD]

The fans you selected are excellent, at 12v they will likely be inaudible in most rooms. And if you hook one up to the CPU fan headers at least one will be spinning slightly slower.

Anyways changes I would make, get a passive graphics card, XFX makes a passive 7800 if you simply must have a high end GPU. But unless you are gaming I would probably stick with a slightly lower end card.

The power on the PSU is fine, though I would consider a quiet one, for that case I recommend either the Antec NeoHE 430 or the Corsair 520 HX. In that case you will find that you need at most three extra power leads to power the system devices, a modular powersupply means you don't have to go around hiding the on average 4-5 more extra power leads that come with a system.

Edit: Oh I run the SI-128 passively with a Athlon 64 3700, it works fine.

[kaange]

Would the HIS IceQ3 256Mb X1950pro be a better choice than the Sapphire + VF900? It will keep the interior cooler since it would exhaust the GPU heat directly.

Otherwise, isn't the cooler on the Sapphire Ultimate X1950pro a VF900?

[mrzed]

I'd prefer the Zalman. With that setup, high case temps are not likely to be an issue.

[ronrem]

Aerocool has a CPU cooler that's laid out much like a smaller Ninja but all Copper,the Gold plate adds heat trans and bling. As heavy as a Ninja but more compact-could go passive? At least very low RPM.

[ronrem]

You don't say if you are a hard core gamer who have a "need" to overclock or if this is more about videos/music/internet. Overclock will always pull more watts-make more heat.

Ther's no such thing as a 400 HP drag racer that can do 150 mph but is also a nice 40 mpg commuter car. Consider your real prioritys-then compromise to fit.

[Mike81]

Have you considered the Antec Fusion case

http://www.awd-it.com/scripts/prodView. ... roduct=331

Its identical to the NSk2400, but it has a volume control knob, VFD, and a silver drive cover. It also has a 430w PSU.

I also agree on using the Si-128 Cooler. They do work well with the Fusion and NSK2400 case.

http://www.awd-it.com/scripts/prodView. ... oduct=1409

Mike

[joe1010]

I decided to get the following fans:
2 Noctua 120mm Fan NF-S12-1200
2 Enermax Marathon UC-12 EB
YATE LOON 120mm Case Fan - D12SL-12
Enermax Marathon UC-8 EB

I will be seeing if the Noctua or Enermax will be best for the case fans, and I plan on using the Yate Loon for the CPU HS, if necessary.

The Enermax Marathon will replace the fan in the PS.

Now, which OS should I buy? I was thinking XP until Vista works some of the bugs out, but I am now thinking I should just go to Vista now.

[joe1010]

The fans you selected are excellent, at 12v they will likely be inaudible in most rooms. And if you hook one up to the CPU fan headers at least one will be spinning slightly slower.

Anyways changes I would make, get a passive graphics card, XFX makes a passive 7800 if you simply must have a high end GPU. But unless you are gaming I would probably stick with a slightly lower end card.

The power on the PSU is fine, though I would consider a quiet one, for that case I recommend either the Antec NeoHE 430 or the Corsair 520 HX. In that case you will find that you need at most three extra power leads to power the system devices, a modular powersupply means you don't have to go around hiding the on average 4-5 more extra power leads that come with a system.

Edit: Oh I run the SI-128 passively with a Athlon 64 3700, it works fine.

I want the frame rates at full resolution, so I want to stick with the 1950 GPU. The Zalman 900 should cool the card, coupled with the system fans hopefully will be enough. I guess I will find out!

[joe1010]

Would the HIS IceQ3 256Mb X1950pro be a better choice than the Sapphire + VF900? It will keep the interior cooler since it would exhaust the GPU heat directly.

Otherwise, isn't the cooler on the Sapphire Ultimate X1950pro a VF900?

I looked at these, and it does not look like the VF900 comes with any of these cards, I have to get it after market.

[joe1010]

Aerocool has a CPU cooler that's laid out much like a smaller Ninja but all Copper,the Gold plate adds heat trans and bling. As heavy as a Ninja but more compact-could go passive? At least very low RPM.

I have looked at these, and the SI-128 looks like a winner...the most expensive, but seems to have the best performance. Thanks!

[joe1010]

You don't say if you are a hard core gamer who have a "need" to overclock or if this is more about videos/music/internet. Overclock will always pull more watts-make more heat.

Ther's no such thing as a 400 HP drag racer that can do 150 mph but is also a nice 40 mpg commuter car. Consider your real prioritys-then compromise to fit.

I am not a hard core gamer, but when I do play, I want excellent graphics. It will probably be used 70-80% for non-gaming stuff. I don't mind driving a Porsche to work every day!

I plan on overclocking the CPU, but not the GPU (unless the system is running cool and there is headroom in the card I buy).

[joe1010]

Have you considered the Antec Fusion case

http://www.awd-it.com/scripts/prodView. ... roduct=331

Its identical to the NSk2400, but it has a volume control knob, VFD, and a silver drive cover. It also has a 430w PSU.

I also agree on using the Si-128 Cooler. They do work well with the Fusion and NSK2400 case.

http://www.awd-it.com/scripts/prodView. ... oduct=1409

Mike

That case is nice, but I really don't want the display! The CPU cooler is great, thanks to all that recommended it (angelkiller).

[angelkiller]

Well, it looks like you're almost set.

kaange wrote:
Would the HIS IceQ3 256Mb X1950pro be a better choice than the Sapphire + VF900? It will keep the interior cooler since it would exhaust the GPU heat directly.

Otherwise, isn't the cooler on the Sapphire Ultimate X1950pro a VF900?


I looked at these, and it does not look like the VF900 comes with any of these cards, I have to get it after market.

I'm not sure if you understood kaange correctly. HIS's IceQ3 series are made to be much quieter than stock cooling. I cannot compare it to to a VF900 (noise wise), but it does exhaust the hot air out of your case. (The X1950Pro is a pretty warm card). So the IceQ3 system would be used instead of the VF900. (Just wanted to make sure you understood him correctly.)

Anyways Sapphire makes a X1950Pro with a VF900 pre-installed. (and is slightly overclocked. Not enough to make a huge temperature increace.)

[majorp]

I just want to warn you that I just put together a very similar setup and am having lots of problems.

CPU: E4300
MB: Foxconn G9657MA
RAM: GSkill N82E16820231098 (2GB 6400)
Case: Antec Fusion MC case w/420W

I'm using Vista premium and onboard X3000 graphics, but system is very unstable. It seems to be related to the memory or the onboard GPU, as the latest intel GMA v15.01 driver seemed to help a little. There is also problems with OC this MB due to the PCIe lock, but it's still possible I believe.

I'm RMA-ing the MB and trying the Gigabyte GA-965GM-S2. Sux because I'm not 100% sure it is the MB, but that's the only conclusion I've come up with.

FYI, the crash I'm getting is a BSOD MEMORY_MANAGEMENT error, and sometimes when I restart Vista gives me an error message about the video driver not responding or something.

[angelkiller]

I'm using Vista premium and onboard X3000 graphics

Not to be negative, but I think that's your problem right there. Vista Premium uses Aero, which uses 3-D rendering. They may say that the X3000 could run Aero, but honestly, you probably need a discrete video card. (A 7600GS would work great.) Yes, onboard graphics have greatly improved, but still.... They still arn't discrete cards. Joe1010 will be using an X1950Pro, so he should be fine with Vista.

But do report back about your motherboard situation. After all, the problem could be your mobo.... (and not the onboard graphics.)

[majorp]

I agree that it is possible that a discrete GPU could fix the issue. However I was crashing with aero turned off also.

[kaange]

Otherwise, isn't the cooler on the Sapphire Ultimate X1950pro a VF900?

I looked at these, and it does not look like the VF900 comes with any of these cards, I have to get it after market.

Check the X1950Pro Ultimate on the Sapphire site. I'm sure that's a VF900 with a Sapphire sticker on the fan.

http://www.sapphiretech.com/at/products ... =172&grp=3

Plus the memory is overclocked vs the std version

[joe1010]

Well, it looks like you're almost set.

I'm not sure if you understood kaange correctly. HIS's IceQ3 series are made to be much quieter than stock cooling. I cannot compare it to to a VF900 (noise wise), but it does exhaust the hot air out of your case. (The X1950Pro is a pretty warm card). So the IceQ3 system would be used instead of the VF900. (Just wanted to make sure you understood him correctly.)

Anyways Sapphire makes a X1950Pro with a VF900 pre-installed. (and is slightly overclocked. Not enough to make a huge temperature increace.)

Actually I did misunderstand kaange, thanks for the clarification. But from the reviews of that card, the heat sink fan can be problematic. Plus, I don't want to chance having a loud fan in the system. I was thinking of having one of the fans I am not using (extras from my recent purchase) to exhaust the video card heat, coupled with an internal custom built shroud. Now I am thinking I can wait for the new 8800 at a $300 price point for DX10...

[joe1010]

Otherwise, isn't the cooler on the Sapphire Ultimate X1950pro a VF900?

I looked at these, and it does not look like the VF900 comes with any of these cards, I have to get it after market.

Check the X1950Pro Ultimate on the Sapphire site. I'm sure that's a VF900 with a Sapphire sticker on the fan.

http://www.sapphiretech.com/at/products ... =172&grp=3

Plus the memory is overclocked vs the std version

Thank you kaange...I found that card at newegg...I think the card I was looking at plus the VF900 was actually a little cheaper with rebate...but not a bad choice...now I have two to decide between, thanks again!

[joe1010]

I just want to warn you that I just put together a very similar setup and am having lots of problems.

CPU: E4300
MB: Foxconn G9657MA
RAM: GSkill N82E16820231098 (2GB 6400)
Case: Antec Fusion MC case w/420W

I'm using Vista premium and onboard X3000 graphics, but system is very unstable. It seems to be related to the memory or the onboard GPU, as the latest intel GMA v15.01 driver seemed to help a little. There is also problems with OC this MB due to the PCIe lock, but it's still possible I believe.

I'm RMA-ing the MB and trying the Gigabyte GA-965GM-S2. Sux because I'm not 100% sure it is the MB, but that's the only conclusion I've come up with.

FYI, the crash I'm getting is a BSOD MEMORY_MANAGEMENT error, and sometimes when I restart Vista gives me an error message about the video driver not responding or something.

Thanks for posting...now I was thinking of using the onboard graphics until the new 8800 card came out, as I didn't want to have to upgrade the video card for a long while.

Anyways, this page states that the motherboard overclocks to 320 FSB http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=710828.

So I am not sure if you can up the FSB to the full 320, or possibly stuck at the 200 FSB * 1.2 = 240 FSB? That would stink, 2.16GHz max!

Some info from the site:

About Overclocking a 945G or G965 Motherboard


The maximum stable FSB of any 945G/G965 motherboard is around 320MHz. Because of some strange limitations of the chipset, PCIe frequency needs to be raised by the same percentage as FSB. The maximum PCIe frequency is around 120MHz (20% increase); beyond that the SATA controllers and or the LAN controller becomes malfunctioning. Therefore the maximum FSB is 266MHz x 1.2 = 320MHz.

Tom's Hardware also has a review of the Foxconn G9657MA-8KS2H (no firewire) http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/11/22/ ... page4.html
Other reviews: http://www.sysopt.com/features/mboard/a ... hp/3646241
http://www.rubyworks.net/reviews/mobos/foxconn-g9657ma/

I am doing a little more research...more to come.

[kaange]

[hank you kaange...I found that card at newegg...I think the card I was looking at plus the VF900 was actually a little cheaper with rebate...but not a bad choice...now I have two to decide between, thanks again!

The Ultimate version has a few things going for it.

1. The slight overclock of the memory
2. The big heatsink they've added for the memory and VRM chips (there have been quite a few reports of the normal Sapphire X1950Pros being flaky due to the VRMs overheating while the GPU sits cool)
3. The warranty won't be voided as the VF900 is already fitted

If the price difference is small, this would tip me toward the Ultimate

[majorp]

So I replaced the G9657MA with the GA-965GM-S2, and everything seems to be running fine now. I'm not sure if the foxconn board was a lemon or if it didn't like one of the other components (ram?) I'd installed. I still feel that the issue was somehow tied to the onboard GPU or maybe the bios (I'd flashed with the latest bios).

Either way, the onboard gfx is working fine in vista aero on the GA-965GM-S2. I also ran sandra's burn in wizard and tried some HD video playback and everything seems smooth. I'm going to try some overclocking tonight, but from what I've read I'm not expecting much.

[angelkiller]

Either way, the onboard gfx is working fine in vista aero on the GA-965GM-S2.

Thanks! Good information. At what resolution are you running Aero? And how much of your system memory do you have dedicated to graphics?

[DWangerin]

Joe,

I recently put together a similar system for similar uses. Here's what I've found so far:

- the Antec tri-cool fans are noisy, so definately replace them. I've been using Nexus fans for years and love them, but any of the fans you mentioned are good.

- the stock CPU cooler is very loud. The Thermalright SI-128 is a good heat sink but it might be too tall for your case- check the dimensions for it with a fan and clearance for airflow. I'm using an XP-120 on a E6300 with a 7v Nexus- the CPU is always cool to the touch, even after hours of games, and it is silent.

- The x1950 Pro is enough to power high res displays with almost any games. I have a HIS x1950Pro Turbo 256MB that runs Oblivion at 1920x1200 with no problems. The ICEQ3 cooler that comes with the card is quiet but not silent, especially when the card is being pushed hard. Luckily the noise is a whooshing shound that is not annoying. I also tried some aftermarket coolers: the Aerocool X2 was louder than the ICEQ3; the Thermalright HR-03 works great for the GPU but needs to have a 92mm fan on it; both coolers are too tall to fit in your case, and both of them had serious problems cooling the VRMs, resulting in crashes at high res. I haven't tried the Zalman VF900, but it might have similar problems cooling the VRMs.

I was also tempted to wait for the new 8800, but the card might be too long to fit in your case and who knows what the cooling will be like...

[angelkiller]

the Aerocool X2 was louder than the ICEQ3

By chance are you referring to the Arctic Cooling Accelero X2?? If you are, how much quieter is the IceQ3 than the X2? I have an X2 and I thought it was virtually silent. (Then again, I think the Tri-Cools on low are pretty quiet too... )