First quiet plus overclocked system. Need advice.

[gran]

I am going to be putting together a new system for the first time in years. The last time I tried this was a dual Celeron 300Mhz each overclocked to 500Mhz. It locked up nearly daily, was hotter than a space heater, and sounded like a jet taking off. So I don't count that as a true overclocking experience

This time around, I have five solid goals that I am dedicated to meeting. In order:

1. Ultra-rock-solid-stable. This will be up 24x7 for the next several years so stability is paramount. This will be a little trickier than it might otherwise be due to #4.
2. As quiet as possible. This system is in a very spartan and echo-ful room so even the slightest noise is amplified. I would like to go "silent" but that's just not going to happen due to #4.
3. FAST. This pretty much requires overclocking due to #4 but obviously makes #1 and #2 harder
4. As close to $1000 as possible. Every dollar over $1000 has to be fully justified.
5. As cool as possible. I live in AZ so my office room in the summer gets pretty toasty. This makes #1 and #2 harder than I'd like.

I've been doing nearly constant searching in the SPCR and various overclocking forums to narrow my list down... but I still need some direct advice.

First, the components that are pretty set:

Power Supply: Nexus 400W NX4090
Hard Drive: WD SE16 WD3200KS 320GB 3.0Gb/s SATA
Memory: (Corsair|G.Skil|OCZ) PC2-6400
Video Card: XFX nVidia 7600GS 256M 2 DVI
Misc: Firewire 800 card, hardware voice modem

The NX4090 appears to be the undisputed quietest and it has a bottom fan which would help my cooling. The WD drive appears to be the quietest with the Samsung models close behind. I would like to go with PC2-5300 to save money but I'd feel safer with the PC26400 due to the overclocking. I'm not a big gamer so the fanless 7600GS is fine (plus I need the 2 DVIs for my monitors).

Then I move on to the components that I am wavering back and forth and would really appreciate any advice:

CPU: Intel E6300 or E6400
Motherboard: ASUS P5B-E (or Deluxe) or Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3
DVD/RW: Samsung SH-S182M or SH-S183L
Case: Antec P150 or P180B

My goal for the processor is to get as close to 3Ghz as possible while still running ultra-stable and cool. My thinking is that the E6400 might be more stable at 3.2 than the E6300 is at 2.8 (much less more). The E4xxx series won't work at all since I really want the VT extension for my many vmware and Xen instances.

I keep flipping back and forth between the ASUS and Gigabyte. Both are commonly used and are loaded with features. We'll see.

The SH-S183L is mostly a factor since it's SATA and since I'll be running Linux primarily on this system and discovered that both of the motherboards I'm looking at have mediocre IDE support in Linux... well, I'm really hoping that the SATA version will work more transparently. These are pretty much the only ones that regularly come up as "as quiet as you can reasonably expect for an optical drive" in my searches.

I really flip back and forth between the P150 and the P180. The latter is clearly more "advanced"... but it's the same price as the former and the former comes with a power supply (which I would use to replace the screamingly loud PS in a pre-existing system) and dangling hard drive support. Plus, the P150 only comes it white as far as I can tell and nearly all DVD drives are black. Hrm.

Finally, I get to the one component that I absolutely need advice on. The CPU cooler. My tentative plan was to get the Zalman CNPS 7000B-AlCu since it was recommended on EndPCNoise.com and is only $25 or so. But then I start seeing a lot of posts ripping on the 7000 and I further see that it doesn't appear at all in the SPCR recommendations. So now I'm torn.

How good is the 7000B-AlCu after all? Would, say, an Ultra-120 with a Nexus 120 fan or a Ninja with the built-in fan or a Nexus one be noticeably better at fulfilling my goals than the 7000B-AlCu? Or are we talking about roughly the same thing at this level? I mostly ask because the Ultra-120 and Ninja are a decent bit more expensive than the 7000B. I'm willing to pay the extra bit if the 7000B is noticeably louder or can't handle an OC'ed E6400 at 3.2Ghz when the ambient air temp is 29C... but if it can, I'd like to save the money.

Any and ALL advice is appreciated!

[Konnetikut]

I wasn't aware that any Nexus power supplies are recommended. Go for a Seasonic (unsure about wattage).
Ninja seems to be a good investment - Zalmans aren't quiet enough for most SPCR members.

An alternative to P150 is the SOLO (looks exactly the same except it's piano black - and we all know black is faster. fingerprint magnet though). Also - the P150 has drive ...um, hiders? - that cover your CD/DVD Drives so that they all turn out to be white anyway.

[Plissken]

For mobo DS3 if you are buying a firewire card anyway, unless you want extreme OC ability. This will save a few bucks.
For case, I see you are using one hard drive and short (non-gamer) vid card, so get the P150/Solo. Again it will save you some money, which you can put toward: the E6400 over the E6300, or better RAM, or quiet goodies like FanMates, or just to stay below your 1k cap.

[gran]

I wasn't aware that any Nexus power supplies are recommended. Go for a Seasonic (unsure about wattage).

Er... you're right that it's not on the recommended page. I think I was going off of this quote on the EndPCNoise.com page for that PSU: "This NX-4090 is the most amazingly quiet power supply we've ever tested or sold!" (http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/std ... -4090.html). The SPCR review also mentions how quiet it is... but it is also a 3 year old review. I'm going to have to revisit this, I think.

Ninja seems to be a good investment - Zalmans aren't quiet enough for most SPCR members.

An alternative to P150 is the SOLO (looks exactly the same except it's piano black - and we all know black is faster. fingerprint magnet though). Also - the P150 has drive ...um, hiders? - that cover your CD/DVD Drives so that they all turn out to be white anyway.

Oh, fantastic! I didn't realize that the Solo was the same system. I also see now that the Solo has a $40 rebate at Fry's which is literally right across the street from where I work. Sweet!

Thanks for all the advice. This is exactly the type of info that I was hoping to get!

[omega_1]

get the E4300 and save some money, get some pc 667, also save some money, I'm sure 333*9 = 3ghz will be plenty fast for ya.

[gran]

get the E4300 and save some money, get some pc 667, also save some money, I'm sure 333*9 = 3ghz will be plenty fast for ya.

Yeah, 3Ghz is plenty fast... but the E4300 doesn't have the VT extension and I'm going to be running a number of virtual machines on this system. VMWare can run without it, but Xen cannot (at least with Windows). So VT is an absolute requirement.

I do wonder if waiting a month or two for the E6420(?) with the 4MB cache would be worth doing...

[ralniv]

Be mindful of the fans installed on your case and your CPU heatsink. There's a nice review of 120mm fans right here on SPCR (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article695-page1.html).

Also, make sure you get a motherboard with passive cooling on the chipset.

[Catul]

FWIW, I got excellent results overclocking an E4300 to 3GHz very quietly; see my post here. No reason you shouldn't get similar results with the E6400.

[Beyonder]

First, the components that are pretty set:

Power Supply: Nexus 400W NX4090
Hard Drive: WD SE16 WD3200KS 320GB 3.0Gb/s SATA
Memory: (Corsair|G.Skil|OCZ) PC2-6400
Video Card: XFX nVidia 7600GS 256M 2 DVI
Misc: Firewire 800 card, hardware voice modem

The NX4090 appears to be the undisputed quietest and it has a bottom fan which would help my cooling.The WD drive appears to be the quietest with the Samsung models close behind. I would like to go with PC2-5300 to save money but I'd feel safer with the PC26400 due to the overclocking. I'm not a big gamer so the fanless 7600GS is fine (plus I need the 2 DVIs for my monitors).

The NX4090 is definitely not the undisputed quietest. I think a much better option is the S12-330. This is because:

• They both have comparable DB measurements, but the NX4090 ramps up slightly faster.
• The NX4090 does not have active power factor correction. Notice the poor ~.65 power factor result.
• The Seasonic has a slightly better efficiency around the 150W mark, which is useful since this is likely the max draw of your system.
• From a cost standpoint, there's no comparison: the S12-300 is $55, while the Nexus is going to set you back $90-100. And if you're willing to spend $100 on a PSU, there are much better options than the nexus, IMO.

Your other components look good.

Then I move on to the components that I am wavering back and forth and would really appreciate any advice:

CPU: Intel E6300 or E6400
Motherboard: ASUS P5B-E (or Deluxe) or Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3
DVD/RW: Samsung SH-S182M or SH-S183L
Case: Antec P150 or P180B

My goal for the processor is to get as close to 3Ghz as possible while still running ultra-stable and cool. My thinking is that the E6400 might be more stable at 3.2 than the E6300 is at 2.8 (much less more). The E4xxx series won't work at all since I really want the VT extension for my many vmware and Xen instances.

I'd consider the antec solo as well as the P150. And the P150 does have suspended hard drives. The solo actually has an improved suspension system as well, IIRC. Oh, and the solo is black. The P180 is good, although it costs more than the solo, and I don't know that it buys you much in terms of silence or usability. My vote would be for the solo.

Regarding the MB, I don't think you could go wrong with either of those boards; I'd personally lean towards the gigabyte, but both of them are reputable overclockers.

Regarding the chip: you're actually way under budget here. If your goal is to spend as close to $1000 as possible, I think you could pretty easily go with an E6600. I pieced together the following on newegg:
Seasonic s12-330
2 gigs of AData memory
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600
Gigabyte GA-965P-DS
Antec Solo
ASUS EN7600GS
Samsung SH-S183L
WD3200KS
Ninja HSF

...and came in right around $1020. You could cut a few more costs by going with an SLK3000B for the case, or cutting out a gig of ram.

[Munch]

P180 Great case

ASUS always.... The P5BE-Deluxe....great, stable board. Just make sure you check the ASUS approved memory vendor list for recommended compatibility.

Zalman 9500 CPU cooler....quiet and cools the mobo too, unlike linear flow coolers like the Scythe Ninja.

Oh and by the way....never cut back on the amount of memory...You can never have too much!

[gran]

FWIW, I got excellent results overclocking an E4300 to 3GHz very quietly; see my post here. No reason you shouldn't get similar results with the E6400.

Sweet! It gives me something to look forward to.

[gran]

I'd consider the antec solo as well as the P150. And the P150 does have suspended hard drives. The solo actually has an improved suspension system as well, IIRC. Oh, and the solo is black. The P180 is good, although it costs more than the solo, and I don't know that it buys you much in terms of silence or usability. My vote would be for the solo.

Cool. I just bought the Solo from Frys.com... $85.03 incl tax with a $40 rebate (if they ever honor it). I heard rumors that the physical store had them for $60 but that must be just in California or something. Here in Phoenix, the Solo would set you back $99! Still not a bad deal, I guess, but not the screamingly great deal that it could be.

Regarding the MB, I don't think you could go wrong with either of those boards; I'd personally lean towards the gigabyte, but both of them are reputable overclockers.

Yeah, I keep flipping back and forth. The P5B has an eSATA and Firewire400 that the gigabyte doesn't have... but I keep getting the impression that the D3 is a more reliable board on the OC forums. And besides, I don't have any eSATA external drives and I'm getting a PCI Firewire 800/400 card anyway. Decisions decisions...

Regarding the chip: you're actually way under budget here. If your goal is to spend as close to $1000 as possible, I think you could pretty easily go with an E6600. I pieced together the following on newegg:
Seasonic s12-330
2 gigs of AData memory
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600
Gigabyte GA-965P-D3
Antec Solo
ASUS EN7600GS
Samsung SH-S183L
WD3200KS
Ninja HSF

...and came in right around $1020. You could cut a few more costs by going with an SLK3000B for the case, or cutting out a gig of ram.

Beyonder, you are the wind beneath my wings.

You make a good case for the E6600 but I still wonder if it's overkill. I could get another hard drive for the cost difference between the E6400 and E660 (much less the E6300).

I am a bit concerned about the S12-330 after the SPCR review states:

The end result is that the S12-430 is a better choice for a quiet mainstream or high powered system, since these often peak between 150W and 200W under load

Can I get away with this just because the system I've configured will never in a million years go over 150W? Or might it be worth spending the extra $50 that I've already saved on the Solo to ensure that I get maximum quietness under power?

I am also curious about the AData memory. According to at least one OC database, the memory of choice for OC is Corsair, G.Skill, or OCZ. There is exactly one system in their db with AData memory. Is that just a matter of everybody following the herd or is there really something to that? Or maybe I'm not going to be OCing my CPU enough that it will matter? I'll admit that I know very little about memory maker reputations since the last time I really cared (~10 years ago?), Crucial was the one that everybody talked about and they barely register now.

[gran]

Zalman 9500 CPU cooler....quiet and cools the mobo too, unlike linear flow coolers like the Scythe Ninja.

The SPCR review implies that the Ninja walks all over the 9500 at the same noise level and that the 9500 is unacceptably loud unless you mod (which I'm not yet willing to do). Am I missing something?

That review also shows that the 7000 is even louder with less cooling capability. Whew! I dodged a bullet with that one

[Konnetikut]

Zalman 9500 CPU cooler....quiet and cools the mobo too, unlike linear flow coolers like the Scythe Ninja.

The SPCR review implies that the Ninja walks all over the 9500 at the same noise level and that the 9500 is unacceptably loud unless you mod (which I'm not yet willing to do). Am I missing something?

That review also shows that the 7000 is even louder with less cooling capability. Whew! I dodged a bullet with that one

missing nothing. ninja has 80plus certification in terms of percentage of spcr recommending it.

[pyogenes]

I am also curious about the AData memory. According to at least one OC database, the memory of choice for OC is Corsair, G.Skill, or OCZ. There is exactly one system in their db with AData memory. Is that just a matter of everybody following the herd or is there really something to that? Or maybe I'm not going to be OCing my CPU enough that it will matter? I'll admit that I know very little about memory maker reputations since the last time I really cared (~10 years ago?), Crucial was the one that everybody talked about and they barely register now.

Personally, I'd just spend the extra $10 to get DDR2-800 RAM instead (G.Skill at Newegg for the same timings as that AData memory). If you do that, there's no need to overclock the memory at all unless you buy the E6300. (fast enough for 3.2GHz with the E6400 or 3.6GHz with the E6600)

[Beyonder]

I am also curious about the AData memory. According to at least one OC database, the memory of choice for OC is Corsair, G.Skill, or OCZ. There is exactly one system in their db with AData memory. Is that just a matter of everybody following the herd or is there really something to that? Or maybe I'm not going to be OCing my CPU enough that it will matter? I'll admit that I know very little about memory maker reputations since the last time I really cared (~10 years ago?), Crucial was the one that everybody talked about and they barely register now.

The AData was a recommended choice from an Anandtech review. Although I agree with what others have said; if you're planning on overclocking, you probably don't want to skimp on memory. Still, fast memory is $$$...

Another user on SPCR--wumpus--has a blog post about his E6600 build, that used the AData ram. He ends up with a 3.1 GHz Core 2 Duo, which is not too shabby.

[Munch]

Gran....

Use whatever you like. But the Zalman is both quiet and more efficient at cooling capacitors whereas the Ninja is not. Zalman, for some reason, is the choice of professional DAW builders and since I have experience with this particular cooler I can vouch for it's silence. My ASUS board does have fan control though, which may make a difference.

[~El~Jefe~]

there is no reason to not get a 4 meg cache intel.

remember, we are dealing with lamo fsb types of intel again. no on die mem controllers mean that performance is great when you have more cache.

there are new lower clocked cores comming out soon that are 4 meg cache and will be cheap these will be the best spcr types of chips possible it appears. you can have a 2.2ghz core or lower yet full cache.

[Beyonder]

there is no reason to not get a 4 meg cache intel.

remember, we are dealing with lamo fsb types of intel again. no on die mem controllers mean that performance is great when you have more cache.

Actually, there really isn't a big performance difference between the 2 and 4 meg chips. 3 to 4%, on average.

[Shadowknight]

2. As quiet as possible. This system is in a very spartan and echo-ful room so even the slightest noise is amplified. I would like to go "silent" but that's just not going to happen due to #4.

Try to put a blanket, pillow, some foam, etc. behind the case. Not TOO close as to impede the air coming out, but the soft material will help suck up a little of the noise, decreasing the amount of echoing you might get from the acoustics exiting the case.

[~El~Jefe~]

eh the analysis used lots of games that never use cache as examples. THey never needed cache, and ruin the "average". Amd showed that cache has little bearing on games and so many went for 512KB a64 754's and 939 if you were more into gaming. anything that is single threaded and constantly changing in what is being worked on never really uses that much cache. games are that. Cache needs should be analyzed using science programs, math modeling, and "content creation", ie, actually doing something on the computer vs a game.

notice divx is 10% more? anything that uses creation, compression, burning, ripping, moving stuff around, and all of those types of functions LOVES cache on an intel because it is doing the same thing constantly, allowing that small executable thingie to be stored in cache. 4 megs is sweetness. that can store all sorts of thing never cached before. Servers have huge caches. why bother right? it only marginally effects things... for you maybe and maybe me too for most things. but not for repetitive functions, caches rox. and its intel so they have no memory controllers, cache rox 10x more for them than amd.

[Beyonder]

eh the analysis used lots of games that never use cache as examples. THey never needed cache, and ruin the "average". Amd showed that cache has little bearing on games and so many went for 512KB a64 754's and 939 if you were more into gaming. anything that is single threaded and constantly changing in what is being worked on never really uses that much cache. games are that. Cache needs should be analyzed using science programs, math modeling, and "content creation", ie, actually doing something on the computer vs a game.

notice divx is 10% more? anything that uses creation, compression, burning, ripping, moving stuff around, and all of those types of functions LOVES cache on an intel because it is doing the same thing constantly, allowing that small executable thingie to be stored in cache. 4 megs is sweetness. that can store all sorts of thing never cached before. Servers have huge caches. why bother right? it only marginally effects things... for you maybe and maybe me too for most things. but not for repetitive functions, caches rox. and its intel so they have no memory controllers, cache rox 10x more for them than amd.

Even if you remove games from the average completely, the benefit is still only 4.1%, so I don't agree with you. 4.1% is not my definition of "rox."

[christopher3393]

I would choose:
Asus P5B-E
C2D e6400
2 GB Corsair XMS2 800Mhz
WD 320 HDD
Gigabyte 7600GT w/ Silent Pipe II
Samsung 18x DVDR
Zalman 9700 or Scythe Ninja
Seasonic 430W PSU

Under $1100.00 including your case, not including shipping.
All components priced on newegg.

[pyogenes]

Gotta love percentages, the numbers are meaningless in and of itself. We need to put it in context.

Kind of reminds me of stupid marketing ploys:
"Our business grew by 300% last year while our main competitor only grew by 10%" That translates to we made $3,000 last year instead of $1,000 like the year before, our competitor made $11 million instead of $10 million.

We should really figure out what the OP needs the computer for before deciding if cache matters in this situation.

[gran]

I would choose:
Asus P5B-E
Gigabyte 7600GT w/ Silent Pipe II
Scythe Ninja

Do you have the combination of these three on your system? That Gigabyte 7600GT looks pretty sweet... but it also looks massive! The Ninja is no featherweight either and considering where the CPU is on the P5B, might there be some space issues?

[gran]

We should really figure out what the OP needs the computer for before deciding if cache matters in this situation.

"Needs"? "Need" has nothing to do with this... everything about this system is in the pure "want" category

Honestly, even a stock E6300 is way more horsepower than this system needs. The majority of the current processing in my house is done with either a 1.25Ghz PPC G4, a 900 Mhz PPC G3, or a 2.8 Ghz P4. Anything I put in this new system will wipe the floor with all of that computing power put together.

The extra 2MB cache isn't worth paying nearly $100 more for to me. If I do end up getting the E6600, it'll be because of it's ease of overclocking rather than its cache. Although I may wait a tiny bit to see if the E6320 or E6420 will be coming out soon so I can get the extra cache for "free"

[gran]

Okay, here's what I've ordered up to this point:

$79.99 Antec Solo
$89.99 Seasonic S12-430
$209.00 Corsair TWIN2X2048-6400
$47.99 Samsung SH-S183L
$39.99 Scythe SCNJ-1100P "Ninja"
$5.99 Arctic Silver 5
$5.99 Arctic Clean ACN
$15.54 Shipping
$5.04 Tax
-$40 Antec Solo MIR
-$40 Corsair MIR

Running Total: $419.52
Left in Budget: $580.48

So far, so good!

I ended up getting the S12 430 instead of the 330 mostly due to the noise concerns around 150W. Better safe than sorry in the long term. I used that same reasoning for getting the Corsair memory rather than some PC5300 memory. And besides, with the $40 rebate, the Corsair was only $40 or so more than the "value" stuff.

Question time: What kind of fans should I be getting? Will the S12 be capable enough to act as a CPU fan in conjunction with the Ninja? Or will I still need a 120mm or 92mm fan (a Nexus one, perhaps). And what about a case fan?

[christopher3393]

Ninja comes w/ 120mm fan: 1200rpm sleeve bearing (so it's not an S-Flex) that might work out ok. If you're gonna OC in AZ, I'd replace the rear Antec Tri-Cool with a quieter but still powerful Scythe S-Flex SFF21F, 1600rpm, and use a controller so you can have the high cfm when you need it.

[Beyonder]

Gotta love percentages, the numbers are meaningless in and of itself. We need to put it in context.

It is in context. Over an average of a number of different benchmarks, the extra cache is going to give a performance boost of about 3.5%. Removing games from the benchmarks bumps that up to 4.1%. There isn't anything "meaningless" about the number; it's pretty straight forward: it's how much faster a 4 meg cache is verses a 2 meg cache.

[pyogenes]

Gotta love percentages, the numbers are meaningless in and of itself. We need to put it in context.

It is in context. Over an average of a number of different benchmarks, the extra cache is going to give a performance boost of about 3.5%. Removing games from the benchmarks bumps that up to 4.1%. There isn't anything "meaningless" about the number; it's pretty straight forward: it's how much faster a 4 meg cache is verses a 2 meg cache.

3.5%, 4.1% that only tells you about performance under load - it doesn't take into account how the computer is used.

To properly assess the usefulness of the cache you need to consider usage of the computer on an individual basis. You'll never see the improvement if all you do is office productivty applications and email. The human aspect dictates the total time, not processing power. It's like driving a really fast car - rush hour traffic makes you get to work no faster than a $500 beater car would.

If you do the odd video editting (or other apps that really benefit from the bigger cache) here and there you'll likely save a few minutes here and there. Not a big deal in the greater scheme of things. When I do some video processing, I usually kick it off then do something else while it runs. Even a 10% gain is meaningless for a person who uses their computer similarly. What multitaksing you can do (including non-computer usage), will dictate the usefulness of the speed improvements.

Now if the computer is used for nothing but apps that benefit from a bigger cache and time is crucial, that speed improvement is huge.

That's why I said, percentages are useless for without the proper context.