MythTV system upgrade

Henk Poley · Post by **Henk Poley** » Sun May 20, 2007 10:14 am

This is bit of a follow-up on a previous topic. I'm still using the Asus Pundit for my MythTV HTPC, but it is getting noisier lately (yes I did clean the dust out

), so I'd like to replace it.

What I'm planning to buy:

Antec Solo (ATX, Geen PSU, Zwart)
Seasonic S12-380, 380W (ATX12V 2.0)
Scythe Ninja Rev.B SCNJ-1000P (Socket 478/775/754/939/940/AM2)
Nexus Real Silent D12SL-12 (120mm, 22,8dB, 3/4p)
Gigabyte GA-M55S-S3, nForce 550 (ATX, PCI-e, Sound, LAN, SATA II, RAID, 1394)
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ (AM2, 2x2.0GHz, 512KB, 400MHz Bus, 65W, Boxed)
256MB x 2 (512MB) PC5300 DDR2, CL5 (Kingston KVR667D2N5K2/512)
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000KS, 500GB (7200rpm, SATA II, 16MB)
MSI GeForce 7100 GS 128MB DDR2 (PCI-e, DVI, Passief) NX7100GS-TD128E
LG GSA-H10N 16x (Dual-layer)
Toshiba MCE Remote Control

My shopping list @ tweakers.net (check 'Bijkomende kosten meerekenen' to calculate price with shipping)

Decisions:
I'd like to use my case fan as cpu fan too. The scythe ninja seems perfect, due to the perpendicular fin positioning.

I would like to have some room for adding (DVB-C) tuners. This means I need full height PCI slots. So no SFF cases with microATX boards for me

. NB: I'll need to find another motherboard, since this only has 2 PCI slots. Yeah.. and 4 PCI-e, but there are no DVB-C cards for such slots.

The motherboard needs to be Linux and MythTV compatible. So for example the nForce 430 MCP chipset is a no go due to sound, APIC and IRQ problems.
[edit] *seems* to be working now with current kernel versions.

A single core of the CPU needs to be about as fast or faster than my current P4 Celeron 2.4GHz. Since I'll be using software encoding with my old tv-card. This is a bit guestimate I made with the Athlon 64 X2 3800+, but I think it is about right. The recorder keeps below 60% cpu on my current system, so I can drop a bit with the addition of an extra core. btw, I don't really need the AM2 socket architecture, but it seems cheaper than a C2D + mobo (?).

My MythTV system needs a good s-video tv-out. It seems like very few full ATX motherboards have a tv-out, so jumped for a dedicated video card. nVidia of course for the excellent Linux compatibility. DVI with HDCP support is a plus for a possible HDTV in the future. This was the cheapest passive card that has s-video and DVI.
[edit] btw, this card doesn't do HDCP. And HDCP support is nonsense for Linux systems. Quite improbable that commercial software will be made for Linux that requires this, if you look at the time it took for *some sort of* commercial DVD player software to actually arrive on Linux (last year or something). Cracked HD-DVD/Blueray codecs probably won't have the necessairy licence to use the HDCP 'feature' anyway.

The DVD+-RW writer is high ranked and relatively silent according to CHIP.de testresults. Seems about right, but maybe there is something better?

Finaly: A big and silent disk is always nice on a harddisk recorder. And the MCE remote is more userfriendly than my current remote that links to my tv-card.

pputer · Post by **pputer** » Mon May 21, 2007 5:05 am

I would buy the best hardware you can afford. Or you will do a lot of waiting. If you buy a decent video card (not talking about tuner) and cpu, then I think the computer will run better. Get a tuner card with a hardware encoder to take some of the work off the cpu. I found mythtv had so many limitations on hardware and was difficult to set up.

Henk Poley · Post by **Henk Poley** » Mon May 21, 2007 9:23 am

I am aware of MythTV as a fidgety system to setup and keep running

. Latest updates of 0.18 and higher went pretty smooth though.

Anyways, I already have a working setup. So transplanting this is going to be much easier than needing to find out how to get the $%^$ audio grabber built into the tv-card working etc. etc. Upgrading to DVB-C will have to wait a bit.

btw, I'd call the video card hardly un-decent.. budget maybe.. I *should* even go and find an older GeForce 5xxx series because the nvidia drivers do better MPEG2 acceleration on these older cards, I've read. But I don't think you can find any of those that work on PCI-e, only AGP. btw, my current system is running of the integrated SiS graphics chipset, which has excellent TV-out but no vsync signal back to MythTV (means slightly choppy video).

Henk Poley · Post by **Henk Poley** » Mon May 21, 2007 11:42 am

Swapped the memory for more appropriate (faster) memory. 512 and 1GB dualchannel seems to be the same price, so upped that too.

Swapped the motherboard with one that has 4 PCI slots. The chipset is a bit of gamble though. 2 months ago there were still some reports of sound problems, but the traffic on the problems thread of the nvidia forum seems to have died out since then

. Too bad the onboard video doesn't have s-video out..

512MB x 2 (1GB) PC6400 DDR2 CL5 (Kingston, KVR800D2N5K2/1G)
Gigabyte GA-M61P-S3, nForce 430 (ATX, PCIe, Sound, LAN, SATA II, VGA)

Michael Sandstrom · Post by **Michael Sandstrom** » Mon May 21, 2007 1:35 pm

I would swap the 500GB WD drive for a Samsung HD501LJ. I have two of the Samsungs suspended in an Antec Solo and they are inaudible even with heavy activity.

Henk Poley · Post by **Henk Poley** » Mon May 21, 2007 9:46 pm

Is this an anecdotal review? Or is there any data on this on the internet?

The WD5000KS is tested and recommended here at SPCR.

Henk Poley · Post by **Henk Poley** » Mon May 21, 2007 10:43 pm

Jotting down some notes here for DVB-C cards..

1. In The Netherlands most cable providers use Irdeto 2 encryption on DVB-C (at least Multikabel -my provider- does). For receiving the encrypted channels you need an original "AlpaCrypt" (not the 'Light' or any other version) CAM. This CAM is also used in satelite dish receivers, so availability should be okay, though not findable through the computer hardware price comparison sites.
[edit] ~ 139 euro's

2. Apparently the best DVB-C card that is well supported under Linux and can receive QAM256 modulated channels (will be used for HDTV) is the "KNC ONE TV-Station DVB-C". The "Terratec Cinergy 1200 DVB-C" is exactly the same card. NB: "KNC ONE" is often written as "KNC1".
[edit] ~ 100 euro's

3. To use this DVB-C card with the AlphaCrypt you need an external Common Interface slot that sold under the name "KNC ONE Cineview". The Cinergy 1200 -being the same card- can also connect with this daughter card.
[edit] ~ 45 euro's

Currently the availability of these items is spotty. The AlphaCrypt and KNC ONE Cineview can probably be bought from Van Hunen. I will contact them if they can also ship the DVB-C card, as they are the offical distributer of KNC ONE in The Netherlands.

Henk Poley · Post by **Henk Poley** » Tue May 22, 2007 12:50 am

About the CPU:
The Athlon 64 single core versions at the same clockspeed (2000MHz) are rated as 3200+. So the dual core version should be quite a bit faster than my current P4 Celeron 2.4GHz

. The 3800+ currently has the best bang for the buck ratio, and people are using slower ones for HDTV already. So I'll keep that one. The 65W max. TDP seems perfect for the Scythe Ninja according to the review on this site.

Does anybody know if the Scythe Ninja will fit with the Gigabyte GA-M61P-S3 and Antec Solo? Or how to find out? (Try it.. yeah..)

[Edit] If I compare the image of the full ATX Gigabyte GA-M61P-S3 with the Intel D945GTP used in the Scythe Ninja test review, I can see that the AMD board has the processor positioned much lower on the board. There also seems to be more area without capacitors. So it should fit.

About the KNC ONE Cineview:
I found that the Cineview is sold with a floppy-slot mounting bracket. This means don't have to waste a PCI slot the Cineview, so I could drop back to a SFF case with a microATX board. Choices.. choices..

Henk Poley · Post by **Henk Poley** » Tue May 22, 2007 7:12 am

Henk Poley wrote:
Michael Sandstrom wrote:I would swap the 500GB WD drive for a Samsung HD501LJ. I have two of the Samsungs suspended in an Antec Solo and they are inaudible even with heavy activity.
Is this an anecdotal review? Or is there any data on this on the internet? The WD5000KS is tested and recommended here at SPCR.

Read up a bit here on the forum, and people who used both seem to prefer the HD501LJ. Plus that drive is ~10 euro cheaper

Thanks for the tip!

Henk Poley · Post by **Henk Poley** » Wed May 23, 2007 9:33 am

Just measured the space where my current Asus Pundit is standing. And an Antec Solo is going to be a very tight fit. As in, will the power connecter still fit in the back or not. Drat..

kike_1974 · Post by **kike_1974** » Wed May 23, 2007 5:46 pm

Michael Sandstrom wrote:I would swap the 500GB WD drive for a Samsung HD501LJ. I have two of the Samsungs suspended in an Antec Solo and they are inaudible even with heavy activity.

No way they are inaudible, not even with AAM set at max.

Let's just say that HD501LJ (and HD401LJ) and WD ks series are the lest noisy of the 3,5" hard disks (as shown in SPCR reviews), but no way inaudible

In my subjective perception, in idle they are noisier than a nexus at 500 rpms, and with heavy activity they are way noisier than a nexus a 700 rpms.

You will need additional isolation of a 3,5" HD to get it to be nearly inaudible (scythe quiet drive, smartdrive, alleycat homebrew box, etc.)

Henk Poley · Post by **Henk Poley** » Wed May 30, 2007 3:09 am

The Antec Solo just isn't going to fit

. I'm going with a Micro-ATX board and case. The Antec NSK3400 plus Asus M2NPV-VM contains about everything I need, I can drop the external nvidia graphics card. Also swapped the LG GSA-H10N with a DVD drive that has better availability.

Do I 'need' the Seasonic S12 in this case? What PSU is in it off-the-shelf? I've also read about a modular PSU being easier in regards to fitting in DVD drives. The recommended power supply list on this site only contains high wattage modular PSUs, are there any silent ones in the 300-350 range?

My new shopping list:

Antec NSK3400 (mATX, 380W, Zilver/Zwart)
Scythe Ninja Rev.B SCNJ-1000P (Socket 478/775/754/939/940/AM2)
Nexus Real Silent D12SL-12 (120mm, 22,8dB, 3/4p)
Asus M2NPV-VM, GeForce 6150 (mATX, PCI-e, LAN, SATA II, RAID, 1394, VGA)
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4000+ (AM2, 2.1 GHz, 1MB, 400MHz Bus, 65W, Boxed) (= Brisbane)
512MB x 2 (1GB) PC6400 DDR2 CL5 (Kingston, KVR800D2N5K2/1G)
Samsung SpinPoint T166 HD501LJ, 500GB (7200rpm, SATA II, 16MB, NCQ)
Samsung SH-S182M 18x (Dual-layer, Lightscribe, Zwart)
Nexus Real Silent 80mm (for possible PSU fanswap)

[edit] Split off the Seasonic S12 and remote control, as I don't really need them right now:

Seasonic S12-380, 380W (ATX12V 2.0)
Toshiba MCE Remote Control

matt_garman · Post by **matt_garman** » Wed May 30, 2007 5:02 am

Henk Poley wrote:
Asus M2NPV-VM, GeForce 6150 (mATX, PCI-e, LAN, SATA II, RAID, 1394, VGA)

FYI, that's a good board for MythTV. I built my parents a MythTV computer with that board, and it's been running great for months (actually about a year now).

A similar and also good uATX board is the Abit NF-M2 (that's what I'm using for my own MythTV box).

The rest of your hardware looks good. That should make for a solid MythTV box. Depending on your budget, you might want to go with 2 GB of RAM (2x1 GB), only because DDR2 memory prices have been dropping so much lately (at least in the States). You shouldn't need it for Myth, but if the incremental cost is negligible, why not?

Good luck!

Henk Poley · Post by **Henk Poley** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:01 pm

A little 'duh' advice: there's a mounting-screw for the floppy bay of the NSK3400. You will need to remove the floppy bay to mount the motherboard+heatsink combo.

I've assembled the system yesterday and have been running burnK7 on it. Haven't been able to push it above 49C with the Scythe Ninja in 'passive' mode ~7cm from the case fan. IÂ´m impressed. But maybe the temperature readings are wrong. Will check in the BIOS. The system is reasonably silent with the Nexus D12SL-12 at 750-800rpm (with Q-fan). Might put a fanmate2 in between to get it even more silent.

Things to do:

Find out how to use the s-video tv-out (just plug it in?)
Copy data from old mythtv system
Setup tv-card
Setup xmltv grabber
Tweak system (..)

Henk Poley · Post by **Henk Poley** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 2:23 am

Just installed the system in it's corner:

Hum-m-m-m

The place it's in seems to resonate with some noise source from the case. Unplugged the harddisk, hum gone. So much for the vibration dampers on the NSK3400, and maybe even the noiselessness of the Samsung SpinPoint T166 HD501LJ..

Shukuteki · Post by **Shukuteki** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:32 am

Henk Poley wrote:Just installed the system in it's corner:

Hum-m-m-m

The place it's in seems to resonate with some noise source from the case. Unplugged the harddisk, hum gone. So much for the vibration dampers on the NSK3400, and maybe even the noiselessness of the Samsung SpinPoint T166 HD501LJ..

Samsungs seem to vibrate a great deal in my experience, which seems to make up for their lack of other types of noise.

Henk Poley · Post by **Henk Poley** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:41 am

Another tip for the NSK3400: Just found out that when you do not tighten the screws in the rubber grommets at all, the hum is neglectable. It's audible when nobody else is in the room, but then the TV with no sound on the speakers is making about as much coil-noise.

I might try putting the disk in the bottom vibration damping bay, to see if the seperator between the two chambers is amplifying up the vibrations of the harddisk.