My next Monster PC

Cov · Post by **Cov** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:03 pm

Alright guys ... I'm not an impatient person at all, but I just cannot wait any longer. Seriously ... the time has come now, in fuckt uhm, in fact it is now by far overdue.

The CPU Yorkfield Q9450 45nm might come out sometimes in March - sorry, too late for me.

The CPU .......... Wolfdale E9200 45nm[/URL] is now in stock at scan.co.uk .......... Â£ 115.78

The CPU Cooler .......... Zalman CNPS8700-NT ... I know it has failed the test in Tom's Hardware Cooler test Feb 2008, but it has a 4-Pin PWM controlled fan .......... Â£ 32.89

The PC Case .......... Lian Li PC-A05A in silver ... there's no other alternative .......... Â£ 77,54

The Case Fan .......... Noctua NF-S12 1200 RPM .......... Â£ 12.33 x 2 = Â£ 24.66

The Memory .......... GeIL 2x2GB PC-6400C5 800MHz Black Dragon .......... Â£ 58.74

The Graphics Card .......... OcUK GeForce 8800 GT 1024MB .......... shut up ... Â£ 176.24

The VGA Cooler .......... Zalman VF900-Cu .......... Â£ 19.38

The Motherboard .......... Asus P5E-VM HDMI .......... the best mATX there is ... Â£ 87.17

The Northbridge Cooler .......... Noctua NC-U6 Dual Heatpipe Cooler .......... Â£ 15.15

The Power Supply .......... Corsair HX520W .......... Â£ 63.20

The Hard Drive .......... Samsung HD753LJ Spinpoint F1 .......... 750GB .......... Â£ 98.84

I will order CPU, Motherboard, HD, PS, VGA & NB Cooler and Case Fans from Scan.co.uk and PC Case, CPU Cooler, Memory and Graphics Card from Overclockers.co.uk

Any comments plaese ?

I hope the E8200 is good enough bang for bucks.
If I don't have to, I won't overclock to avoid heat & noise issues.
Of course I will experiment around.

The chosen CPU cooler looks good in my eyes. It has been hard to chose cause there are so many.

No negotiation about the PC Case. That's my favourite. (Yes, it's not perfect)

The Memory is basic but have you seen how awesome the LED Dragon eyes look ?

I doubt that there is much difference between the many graphics cards on the market. Just different vendors. Probably a matter of taste really.

Having read so many reviews, the VGA cooler seems to be a reliable and efficient performer.

Because I want an mATX (I know the PC case has enough space for full ATX) the Asus one is the best, even if I have a few points to complain about.

And I have chosen this NB cooler because the one which comes on the motherboard is ever so ugly.

Power Supply, hmm ... there are not many modular ones.

And regarding the Hard Drive, I have read that the Samsung 750GB has only 3 platters, I wonder if the 500GB version has only 2 ?
It would mean less noise & heat.
But I wished SSD would be more affordable. I'd go for the 64GB version ... absolutely silent, quick and energy efficient.

mr_plow_king · Post by **mr_plow_king** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:47 pm

The looks of your system seems to be very important for you but if you want a quiet system, I suggest you swap the Zalman CNPS8700-NT for a Scythe Ninja or a Thermalright Ultra 120.

Also, I'd change the Zalman VF900-Cu for the Arctic Cooling Accelero S1 Rev 2. If needed, strap a slow 120mm fan ( you could buy a 3rd Noctua fan ) to the Accelero but I don't think you'll need it if there's a good ventilation in the case

Blue_Sky · Post by **Blue_Sky** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:11 pm

I'll second what mr_plow_king said. Go for a Ninja/TRUE and an Accelero S1. If you don't end up using a PWM fan for the CPU heatsink, you should be able to disable the error in the BIOS.

Cov · Post by **Cov** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:32 am

Alright ... yeah, the looks is pretty important to me. Shallow, I know.

What I have gathered so far is that nobody likes the Zalman. It has been confirmed several times to be extraordinary loud if the fan is at maximum speed. That sucks of course.

I wished there was a place where enthusiasts could have a feel and look at a range of CPU coolers, to make their minds up first before buying.

I take now the Scythe Ninja Mini seriously into consideration, but it seems the choice of the cooler changes from hour to hour.

99% of all coolers come with 3-pin connector instead of the 4-pin one.
Can I still regulate the rpm via the software or is that only for 4-pin ?
To get a fan spinning to a set value, you need only 2 pins - one red and one black.
Does 3-pin transfere speed information of the fan to the BIOS/OS ?
Is it true that only 4-pin enables feedback about temperatures from CPU to PC via a sensor and resulting in regulating the RPM from the PC tp the fan ?

Gosh, so complicated.

ntavlas · Post by **ntavlas** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:43 am

One more vote for the skythe ninja though I would prefer a thermalright hr03 in this lian li.

The 8400 & 8200 seem like better value to me, especially when there`s so much room for oveclocking.

I suggest looking at this thread viewtopic.php?t=36172& , it might give you useful ideas on how to manage case airflow.

As for the fan headers, it depends on the motherboard. In this particular asus you can control at least one 3 pin fan (60-100% manually set) and you get automatic cpu fan control (not sure if it works with 3 pin fans).

There are cheap standalone 4pin fans by arctic cooling while skythe makes some slow 3 pin models (500-800rpm) so you have a lot of options if you want your fans to be quiet.

Cov · Post by **Cov** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:06 am

I thought, after I had a good look around before I made my mind up, the Zalman 8700-NT was a good choice.
The low profile, the blue LED and the 4-PIN header convinced me.
The performance is not the best but not bad either.
Only thing is the noise at high speed. It is very loud.

Well, since I found that most of you guys don't like this CPU cooler, checked more models and more reviews.
CPU cooler which fascinated me so far:

1. Scythe Ninja Mini
110 x 110 x 115 / 2300 rpm / 24.4dB / 32.2 CFM / 580g
Not only is small but delivers good results too, the big brother however is a Monster of PC cooler.
Check the Scythe Ninja Copper (limited edition) on youtube ! A massive beast !

2. Scythe Mine
109 x 105 x 150 / 1500 rpm / 42.69 CFM / 22dB / Â£ 24.08
Very interesting

3. Thermalright SI-128 (120mm fan recommended)
125 (L) x 145 (W) x 91.5 (H) / 510g
Totaly different with very good results.

4. Zalman CNPS 8700-NT (horizontal)
120 x 123 x 67 / 1150 - 2100 rpm / 17.5 - 30 dB

5. Zalman CNPS 9700-NT (vertical)
90 (L) x 124 (W) x 142 (H) / 19.5 - 35 dB

6. Cooler Master Hyper TX2 Universal
90 x 44 x 136.5 / 1800 rpm / 41.76 CFM / 22 dB

7. Cooler Master Vortex 752 Universal
112.3 x 108.4 x 75.4 / 2200 rpm / 18 dB

There are so many coolers that I wished I had enough space and money to build at least 5 different PCs.
It's very difficult to make my mind up and it seems the only good way would be to touch, feel and check the look of each and every cooler by myself before I place an order. Or, as I said, just order 10 different coolers and build 10 different PCs. That would be awesome.
That is so greedy, isn't it ?

Well, I was surprised to find some good videos on youtube about some CPU coolers.
Especially Cooler Master is represented very well with little demonstration clips ... very good.

Gosh ! There's so much more good stuff out there ... and so little money

jhhoffma · Post by **jhhoffma** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:31 am

For maximum cooling, none of those heatsinks are in the upper echelon except for the Ninja Mini (hereby known as Minja).

The Minja is a good cooler (particularly for it's size) but the Ninja will be better. There is also the Thermalright Ultra120 and the Ultra120 Extreme (TrUE), which likely cool better, but at the expense of having to run faster fans due to the closely space fins.

The Ninja and Minja work well in passive and semi-passive (a fan nearby the heatsink but not directly on the heatsink) modes because the large fin spacing allow air to flow easier between them.

Ditto the S1, if you can find one...

The 3-pin fan header/connect will allow fan speed to be monitor. Certain motherboards will also be able to change this fan speed using PWM (pulse-width modulation) on their 3-pin headers. 4-pin fans/connectors are always PWM-controlled but can usually be manually configured in the BIOS to a degree. Note that some 3-pin fans do not work the best with PWM, resulting in a slight clicking sound that can be noticeable, but I doubt you'd have a problem with that. Besides, the ULNA adapters that come with the Noctua fans should eliminate that problem (unless they are ineffective @ 5v).

Conroy · Post by **Conroy** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:31 am

how about the btf-90 cpu heat sink?

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article645-page1.html

Cov · Post by **Cov** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:29 am

@ Conroy

Never heard about this one before.
Yes, it looks good to me, and there are several reviews about this one out too.
I like unusual and this one certainly is one interesting bitch of a butterfly

Only one online shop has this manufacturer in their range and only one model on offer.
It's the Nirvana: http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductI ... tID=767365

I tell you honestly, if I still had this disfunctional addiction of collecting things like I had a few years ago, like DVDs, CDs and PC games ... then I would get one of each and every CPU cooler out there - and if its just for putting them on display ... I'm not even joking.

But thanks to God I'm cured of this addiction.

Well, I seriously look into chosing one by random. I know already that I won't be sure when I place an order, but pffffhhh what can I do ?

I wasted so much money in the past ... hey, if I don't like the cooler I just donate it and buy a different one.

See I will order the E8400 on Monday because Intel can't deliver the Q9450 yet. Life is full of compromises. Everytime & always again.

derekva · Post by **derekva** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:51 am

Both the Ninja (not the Mini) and the Ultra 120 are your best bet and should fit in the Lian Li PC-A05A without issues and will outcool pretty much every heatsink you listed. You can find 120mm PWM fans that will be far superior to the Zalman fan as well so that shouldn't be a concern / gating factor.

My one concern with the Accelero S1 is whether or not there will be cooling issues given the upside-down nature of the Lian Li PC-A05A motherboard mounting configuration. I suppose if you put a fan on it and point the fan up so it is pulling air off the cooler instead of pushing air at the cooler it might work, although I'd be concerned that you'd have heat buildup in the upper rear of the case. Not sure how much heat can escape via that thin vent at the top of the case.

On the other hand, if the vent holes aren't sufficient, then heat buildup in the upper rear of the case would be a problem regardless of the VGA cooler so I'll shut up now.

-D

SebRad · Post by **SebRad** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:49 pm

Hi cov, with your Asus board I would expect it to be like mine in that it will ONLY control the speed of the CPU fan if it is 4 pin PWM. With a 3 pin fan it will run full speed (with rpm monitoring) but no speed control unless use another fan controller. I'm actually using the BTF90 "butterfly" cooler on my CPU, got it from QuietPC.com, currently not listing the BTF90 but BTF80 aluminium version is Â£24. The mounting is a remove-the-motherboard-job but is excellent. More-or-less fool proof and very secure. SPCRâ€™s test showed it only just behind the copper version. I can cool my E6600 CPU up to ~3.2GHz pretty quietly, 3.6GHz (~1.5V needed) is at top of cooling range and not that quiet, but at least DOUBLE the watts of std clock 2.4GHz. At 2.4GHz, 600-700rpm is enough cooling, even under load. The stock fan isn't great and not really replaceable but on your 45nm CPU should be able to run at lowest speed unless heavy on the overclocking and then be pretty quiet. Depends how quiet you want really, unless your ambient gets very quiet I think would be fine.
You can see my config in this thread. I'm now using an Arctic Cooling 120mm 4 pin PWM fan, it has wide range of speeds (300 - 1500rpm), is decently quiet and works great with my Asus board. Don't know if can get in this country yet, got mine from Germany! Could of course use the AC fan with any heatsink to make it 4pin PWM (extra cost though), they also do 92mm and 80mm versions.
Good luck, Seb

Cov · Post by **Cov** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:46 pm

Hey SebRad !
Thanks for your comment.

When you say this board might "only" control the speed of the CPU fan if it's a 4-pin PWM ... then I only want a 4-pin fan and no 3-pin one.
And the only advantage of 3-pin over 2-pin is the rpm monitoring, hmm ok.

Your butterfly cooler looks certainly like art - unlike the stock cooler.
Nice pictures.

I find it kind of funny when other enthusiast highlight the price of the CPU cooler.
Well, if I decide to spend Â£1000.- + for a PC then I shouldn't try to save on the CPU cooler.
Only thing I have changed now, I have decided to order all parts from Scan (except the PC case because nobody else has it)
since overfuckers have raised their prices to a degree which I find over-greedy now.
The E8400 was > Â£140.- the other day, raised to > Â£160 and since today > Â£176 ..... pfffhhhh ..... I rather wait and order somewhere else.

Your VGA cooler VF900-CU is the one I have chosen as well, but has the exchange of the fan really brought an improvement ?
I was a little shocked to see how much space it takes.
Looks like I might not be able to use any other PCI slot with this graphics card / vga cooler constellation on the mATX board.

SebRad · Post by **SebRad** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:59 am

Hi, my experience of Asus boards is only with the one I have (P5B-E Plus) but I believe the whole P5B line is the same with needing a 4 pin PWM fan for motherboard fan speed control. Either through the Asus Q-Fan in the BIOS or software (eg SpeedFan). I believe Gigabyte motherboards can select 3pin (voltage) or 4pin (PWM) control for the CPU fan but I don't know if Asus has this on later boards. All the case fan headers are voltage control so you could plug a 3pin CPU fan on to one and control it that way BUT with my board all the headers run the same speed, ie all the case fans (and CPU fan if so connected) run the same % speed. This might not be a problem as you'd tend to want to speed up case fans and CPU fan together anyway.
You could just get a 3pin ~800rpm 120mm fan that will likely be quiet enough and combined with Ninja / Ultra 120 provide ample cooling unless overclocking passed 3.5GHz and not worry about speed control of it at all! Get 120mm PWM fan later if need/want speed control.

The VF-900 didn't really need the fan swapped, using Ati tool to slow the original right down made it pretty quiet, just a slight ssssh-ssssh noise from it. Doubt it would be noticeable apart from in the quietest of systems, your 8800GT is likely a hotter card but I believe ATITool can control the fan speed of Nvidia cards too so you should be able to get quiet. You probably already looked at my full write up of the fan swap.
With the original (thin) Zalman fan you only lose the slot next to the graphics card, i.e. on mATX you'd still have 2 slots. With 25mm thick fan you'd lose another leaving only 1 slot useable. Can't get to Scan's website at this moment but if they do it I'd suggest Zalman's bigger VF-1000. It uses the same fan as the VF-900 so makes the same noise but has more fins and more heatpipes, SPCRâ€™s review showed it on 5v fan beating the VF-900 with 12v fan!
Regards, Seb

My next Monster PC

My next Monster PC

if you're into looks